Support NeoGAF

[clav]

Meh, if you think it's anecdotal and that the phrase Fix Or Repair Daily came about by myth, then be my guest. We've had:

1990 Taurus
2000 Explorer
2002 Expedition Eddie Bauer
2004 Explorer

ALL have had to go to the repair shop MULTIPLE times. The years may be a bit of, since they were my dad's, but only by a year or two. The last two had leaking moonroofs. One had a transmission problem, and the Expedition had electrical problems. The first Explorer was in all the time for countless things I can't mention. The Taurus was bought used and had all sorts of transmission problems.

My mom's 1993 Corolla is still running. Ugly as hell on the outside, and the axle is broken, but the engine is still running strong. My sister's 1995 Tercel only stopped running when it was totalled. Her 1999 Camry is running flawlessly.

Toyota makes better cars than Ford. If you think otherwise, you're an idiot. Most EU and JP cars are simply better-built. I have no remorse for people who flush their money down the drain of domestic cars. PEACE.

EDIT: You don't buy a car for the dash, those electronics are easy to replace. Buy it for the underpinnings. The chassis, engine and transmission. You know, the multiple-thousand dollar repairs and shit. Wait for every manufacturer to adopt the dash. It'll happen by next year.

Dude, you just bit into Ford at the worst period possible.

My family bought a 1995 Windstar, and that was a POS.

This thread is talking about NOW. Ford easily wins the best USA automaker. Their designs are a lot better, and their reliability is much better. Ford was very fortunate to have the Focus to have them survive the battery of its competitors.

Toyotas are shitty cars now, too. Economist had an article how the Toyota corporation (America) slowly is downward spiring. They're not as good as they were years ago. Camry, the best-selling Toyota model, is no longer recommended in many car review magazines.

Here's the economist article published December 10, 2009:

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15065913

 

[daw840]

Time for some truth.

You'd be hard pressed to find better cars than the Mondeo and Focus in their class.

You'd be hard pressed to say Corvettes and Mustangs are not amazing value for money (despite the fact they are made out of plastic and have poor handling).

Absolutely agreed on all points but the handling of the Corvette. It actually does really well due to a near 50/50 weight distribution front and back. The transmission is actually mounted on the rear differential to achieve this. This is probably the only car that GM kills the competition with. A Z06 Corvette will keep up with, and a beat, a lot of super cars that are priced twice as high.

 

[Patriots7]

British for luxury? What a crock of shit, British cars have been piles of shit for 20 years now. They all review bottom of their class. British cars always have very aesthetically pleasing interiors and absolute shit for quality.

In my opinion the long standing truths in the auto industry are changing. Toyota and Honda are no longer in a league of their own for quality. Korean manufacturers are actually damn good. US manafucturers have caught up in most respects, if not surpassed their counterparts in a few areas. (Chrystler still being a POS.) I mean, the Corvette is maybe the best car ever made when you take value into consideration. Japanese luxury brands are starting to mass produce cars targetted at speed, horsepower, and handling, not just comfort anymore, and they are doing a damn good job of it threatening the Euro manufacturers.

In my opinion, the two manufacturers to watch are Hyundai and Ford.

Maybe from a reliability standpoint I can agree, but in terms of luxury? Land Rover and Jaguar are faaaaaaar from the bottom of their class.

 

[Cheeto]

Absolutely agreed on all points but the handling of the Corvette. It actually does really well due to a near 50/50 weight distribution front and back. The transmission is actually mounted on the rear differential to achieve this. This is probably the only car that GM kills the competition with. A Z06 Corvette will keep up with, and a beat, a lot of super cars that are priced twice as high.

It sucks though, that you get the same interior (stereo, etc) in your 50k Vette that you get in a Malibu.

 

[daw840]

It sucks though, that you get the same interior (stereo, etc) in your 50k Vette that you get in a Malibu.

Agreed, although the vette is slightly better, they could definitely use a new designer to spruce it up.

edit: GOD, now that I look at them side by side, you are ABSOLUTELY right. Thats just disgusting.

 

[Patriots7]

This thread is talking about NOW. Ford easily wins the best USA automaker. Their designs are a lot better, and their reliability is much better. Ford was very fortunate to have the Focus to have them survive the battery of its competitors.

Debatable. It's easily a two-way race between GM and Ford, and as much as Ford has improved, GM has done the same. While I'm not fan of either company, and I do admire the fact that Ford turned down government assistance, I'd give the nod to GM for the best of the big 3.

Toyotas are shitty cars now, too. Economist had an article how the Toyota corporation (America) slowly is downward spiring. They're not as good as they were years ago. Camry, the best-selling Toyota model, is no longer recommended in many car review magazines.

Here's the economist article published December 10, 2009:

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15065913

Toyota's are not shitty cars. I don't like Toyota and I'll even defend them on that. Toyota's quality has dipped greatly, that is true. But their cars are not shitty, not even close.

 

[Igo]

Maybe from a reliability standpoint I can agree, but in terms of luxury? Land Rover and Jaguar are faaaaaaar from the bottom of their class.

Haven't Jag's been getting very high marks for the last 5 or so years. In reliability and overall quality. Plus they're actually profitable now I think.

We in the UK may not own our brands anymore but we still produce some quality machinery.

 

[avaya]

Jaguars are shit.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Just because the Toyota manages to withstand stupid-ass owners better than the Ford does doesn't make the owner any less stupid. Driving for 9000 miles on any type of oil is a bad fucking idea.

No, it's not. I'm a ENGINEER. In your intro to design class, you'll learn something called "safety factor." 3000 miles or every 3 months isn't some tolerance for the hardware. In the mid-20th century, what was the standard for maintenance? Engine oil has improved significantly in quality, and the additives mean you can get more than that 3000 miles, so long as you're not driving an unreliable piece of shit from a domestic, I guess.

I put synthetic in my Spyder and go 6000-8000 miles on a change. I'd wager this engine will be running longer than any 2011 Ford POS anyone decides to buy in this thread. Don't let oil companies scare you into thinking your car will fall to pieces. You can check the clarity of your oil to see if it's getting too dirty anyway.

A bombproof engine is a bombproof engine. My example was to show that every Toyota we've had has survived severe negligence. My dad's Ford trucks were leases, so regular oil changes in the 3000/3 cycle, yet they ended up needing countless repairs. Domestics simply aren't built as well. This is not a myth, and has been my personal experience (as a huge car afficianado) since I took interest in them in the early 80's.

Given a choice of the same price and same features in two cars, would you take the one made by the domestic manufacturer or the one from the EU/JP manufacturer? Cars are such a cash sink, I still can't believe people keep donating to the domestic companies. PEACE.

 

[GodfatherX]

I drove a 93 Probe GT until it was just short of 300k miles, only real issues were ball joints went out twice

Currently driving a 98 Civic, and love it, but I will be looking for a new car in 2-3 years and my eyes are on Ford

 

[wonderkins]

The 3,000 mile/3-month oil change myth never seems to go away. From Scientific American:

Three Months, 3,000 Miles Or Longer?: The Truth about Oil Changes

When you should get an oil change is dependent on the vehicle, your usage pattern, your region, etc. Not some hokey mileage number chosen by Jiffy Lube decades ago in order to increase the frequency of sales visits. Woe be to the individual who doesn't follow the prescribed frequency on the insistent windshield sticker as you'll be hit up for the panoply of aftermarket engine potions. No thanks, just oil.

On topic, Mulally is the best thing to happen to Ford in a great while. And Boeing's loss. If he and others can repair the damage done by Trotman and Nasser, bravo to him and all Ford employees. If I was in the market for a small commuter car, a Fiesta loaded with Sync would be a definite enticement. It'd be an even more attractive purchase if it was a Honda Fit with Sync, but oh well.

 

[Igo]

Jaguars are shit.

Lies!

Actually I wouldn't know as i've never really been all that interested in Jag's. Though I saw the interior of XJ some months back and it was extremely classy. Still though, i'm not sure anyone under 40 has ever bought one.

 

[daw840]

The 3,000 mile/3-month oil change myth never seems to go away. From Scientific American:

Three Months, 3,000 Miles Or Longer?: The Truth about Oil Changes

When you should get an oil change is dependent on the vehicle, your usage pattern, your region, etc. Not some hokey mileage number chosen by Jiffy Lube decades ago in order to increase the frequency of sales visits. Woe be to the individual who doesn't follow the prescribed frequency on the insistent windshield sticker as you'll be hit up for the panoply of aftermarket engine potions. No thanks, just oil.

On topic, Mulally is the best thing to happen to Ford in a great while. And Boeing's loss. If he and others can repair the damage done by Trotman and Nasser, bravo to him and all Ford employees. If I was in the market for a small commuter car, a Fiesta loaded with Sync would be a definite enticement. It'd be an even more attractive purchase if it was a Honda Fit with Sync, but oh well.

3 months/3000 miles is the severe service recommendation.

Stop and go traffic, lots of idling, lots of short trips, etc.

Most people don't meet the severe service guidelines.

 

[jamesinclair]

2 years from now, Ford starts hurting financially again as the lawsuits start flowing in after dozens of deaths are blamed on drivers distracted by the dashboards

 

[bill0527]

The 3,000 mile/3-month oil change myth never seems to go away. From Scientific American:

Three Months, 3,000 Miles Or Longer?: The Truth about Oil Changes

When you should get an oil change is dependent on the vehicle, your usage pattern, your region, etc. Not some hokey mileage number chosen by Jiffy Lube decades ago in order to increase the frequency of sales visits. Woe be to the individual who doesn't follow the prescribed frequency on the insistent windshield sticker as you'll be hit up for the panoply of aftermarket engine potions. No thanks, just oil.

On topic, Mulally is the best thing to happen to Ford in a great while. And Boeing's loss. If he and others can repair the damage done by Trotman and Nasser, bravo to him and all Ford employees. If I was in the market for a small commuter car, a Fiesta loaded with Sync would be a definite enticement. It'd be an even more attractive purchase if it was a Honda Fit with Sync, but oh well.

I'm a Honda guy myself.

We bought our first Honda - on '06 Accord brand new and I'm converted. I'm not sure about other models, but Honda has viscosity meters that measure oil life and tell you when your oil is actually about to die, built right into the dashboard. We get about 6k-7k miles between oil changes on the accord. You can actually keep track of the percentage of oil life left by hitting a button on the dash.

We also traded in my '06 Ford F-150 Lariat on a '10 Honda Odessey mini-van the week before Christams and got all leather, and all the bells and whistles on it. I've put 1k miles on it already for Holiday travelling and my oil life is still sitting on about 85%.

 

[Crisis]

No, it's not. I'm a ENGINEER. In your intro to design class, you'll learn something called "safety factor." 3000 miles or every 3 months isn't some tolerance for the hardware. In the mid-20th century, what was the standard for maintenance? Engine oil has improved significantly in quality, and the additives mean you can get more than that 3000 miles, so long as you're not driving an unreliable piece of shit from a domestic, I guess.

I put synthetic in my Spyder and go 6000-8000 miles on a change. I'd wager this engine will be running longer than any 2011 Ford POS anyone decides to buy in this thread. Don't let oil companies scare you into thinking your car will fall to pieces. You can check the clarity of your oil to see if it's getting too dirty anyway.

A bombproof engine is a bombproof engine. My example was to show that every Toyota we've had has survived severe negligence. My dad's Ford trucks were leases, so regular oil changes in the 3000/3 cycle, yet they ended up needing countless repairs. Domestics simply aren't built as well. This is not a myth, and has been my personal experience (as a huge car afficianado) since I took interest in them in the early 80's.

Given a choice of the same price and same features in two cars, would you take the one made by the domestic manufacturer or the one from the EU/JP manufacturer? Cars are such a cash sink, I still can't believe people keep donating to the domestic companies. PEACE.

First of all, I drive a Japanese car. And I couldn't give a shit less if you're an engineer (or as you put it - "an ENGINEER"). I didn't say a word about 3000 mile oil changes or anything like that, so way to argue a point I didn't make. But I know from personal experience that going for 9000 miles without an oil change is asking for trouble. Regardless of a car's national origin. Domestic cars haven't been that great for a while, especially compared against Japanese. However, Ford is definitely turning the corner. If you want to cite a good Japanese manufacturer then I would start with Honda. Toyotas are definitely slipping in quality. If you're going to lump all American manufacturers together then maybe I should judge Honda by what Mitsubishi does. And I'm happy with my Mazda right now. Whenever I get a new car, I'll definitely consider a new Fusion or something over the Camry. If you're such a great engineer then you should be able to appreciate Ford's efforts to turn their cars around. But perhaps I shouldn't expect so much of an idiot that can't even engineer a way to not have that dumbass signature at the end of every post he makes.

 

[daw840]

First of all, I drive a Japanese car. And I couldn't give a shit less if you're an engineer (or as you put it - "an ENGINEER"). I didn't say a word about 3000 mile oil changes or anything like that, so way to argue a point I didn't make. But I know from personal experience that going for 9000 miles without an oil change is asking for trouble. Regardless of a car's national origin. Domestic cars haven't been that great for a while, especially compared against Japanese. However, Ford is definitely turning the corner. If you want to cite a good Japanese manufacturer then I would start with Honda. Toyotas are definitely slipping in quality. If you're going to lump all American manufacturers together then maybe I should judge Honda by what Mitsubishi does. And I'm happy with my Mazda right now. Whenever I get a new car, I'll definitely consider a new Fusion or something over the Camry. If you're such a great engineer then you should be able to appreciate Ford's efforts to turn their cars around. But perhaps I shouldn't expect so much of an idiot that can't even engineer a way to not have that dumbass signature at the end of every post he makes.

I like you...

 

[Phobophile]

The 3000 mi bullshit was a ploy during the 1970s for oil companies to get us to buy more of their oil. *tin foil hat*

Hell, I doubt most manufacturers would recommend that you absolutely get one every 3000 mi. My 2003 Focus maintenance manual says every 5k mi.

 

[Stinkles]

It means the new Mustangs are ugly as hell and the base models are ludicrous.

Fixed.

 

[Pimpwerx]

First of all, I drive a Japanese car. And I couldn't give a shit less if you're an engineer (or as you put it - "an ENGINEER"). I didn't say a word about 3000 mile oil changes or anything like that, so way to argue a point I didn't make. But I know from personal experience that going for 9000 miles without an oil change is asking for trouble. Regardless of a car's national origin.

Why is it asking for trouble? Do you know what it is that happens to the oil that makes it necessary to change? It's crud building up. Did you know you really only need to change the filter at 3000 miles, an that too is largely dependant on how dirty your commute is. If you ever change your oil, rub some of it between your fingers (if it's not to hot) and you'll either see debris, or you won't. Changing the filter alone can extend (double IMO) the life of any oil, synthetic or non. You won't hear Mobil, Pennzoil or any of those other companies shouting that loudly. There's a limit to how far you go, but it's not like oil suddenly becomes corrosive after 3000 miles. If it did, our Toyotas would be dead already. A well-built engine can run on a minimum of lubricant. Watch a Slick50 informercial sometime to see how little lube is actually needed for an engine to run.

Domestic cars haven't been that great for a while, especially compared against Japanese. However, Ford is definitely turning the corner. If you want to cite a good Japanese manufacturer then I would start with Honda. Toyotas are definitely slipping in quality. If you're going to lump all American manufacturers together then maybe I should judge Honda by what Mitsubishi does. And I'm happy with my Mazda right now. Whenever I get a new , I'll definitely consider a new Fusion or something over the Camry. If you're such a great engineer then you should be able to appreciate Ford's efforts to turn their cars around. But perhaps I shouldn't expect so much of an idiot that can't even engineer a way to not have that dumbass signature at the end of every post he makes.

I don't appreciate turning of corners, I appreciate a good final product. I've had enough first-hand experience with various makes that I find my opinion to be rather informed, thank you. Mazda got bought out by Ford, IIRC. At least they were lumped together in the same part of the auto show hall years ago. Much like Ford degraded the Jaguar brand, I've no doubt they'd do the same for Mazda. But then, I've also a bit of nostalgia for the old 626 and 323 jellybeans.

I'm getting off course. You say Ford's turned the corner? Great. I wish they'd done so sooner, because I made my dad by a CPO BMW over another stupid Ford. IMO, a company's turned the corner after their car has been running reliably at least 5 years. So IOW, let's look at the 2005-6 Fords and see how much of a corner has been turned. If we're basing this on the last couple of years, we've actually not given them enough time to prove shit.

I'm not born in this country and have no allegiance to the domestics. I got nothing invested in them, and if you know my opinion on other pieces of technology, you'd know I only care about what works best for me. I'm pretty fair-weather, but the situation on the car front simply hasn't changed significantly enough to warrant even half a page of discussion. I'll leave you and others to your own devices. I don't make car repairs so either I'm extremely lucky, or maybe I just know what the fuck I'm talking about. PEACE.

 

[daw840]

Fixed.

I will agree with the base models sucking, but ugly? never

 

[Stinkles]

I will agree with the base models sucking, but ugly? never

The ugly part is subjective of course, but they jacked up the cost of entry to almost $25k, for an insipid underpowered V6 and no independent rear suspension. The Mustang is firmly in the "old Ford" camp.

 

[TylerD]

The ugly part is subjective of course, but they jacked up the cost of entry to almost $25k, for an insipid underpowered V6 and no independent rear suspension. The Mustang is firmly in the "old Ford" camp.

2011 Mustang is getting a 305HP V6 rated at 30mpg highway and a 412HP 5.0 L V8 for the GT.

 

[Crisis]

Why is it asking for trouble? Do you know what it is that happens to the oil that makes it necessary to change? It's crud building up. Did you know you really only need to change the filter at 3000 miles, an that too is largely dependant on how dirty your commute is. If you ever change your oil, rub some of it between your fingers (if it's not to hot) and you'll either see debris, or you won't. Changing the filter alone can extend (double IMO) the life of any oil, synthetic or non. You won't hear Mobil, Pennzoil or any of those other companies shouting that loudly. There's a limit to how far you go, but it's not like oil suddenly becomes corrosive after 3000 miles. If it did, our Toyotas would be dead already. A well-built engine can run on a minimum of lubricant. Watch a Slick50 informercial sometime to see how little lube is actually needed for an engine to run.


I don't appreciate turning of corners, I appreciate a good final product. I've had enough first-hand experience with various makes that I find my opinion to be rather informed, thank you. Mazda got bought out by Ford, IIRC. At least they were lumped together in the same part of the auto show hall years ago. Much like Ford degraded the Jaguar brand, I've no doubt they'd do the same for Mazda. But then, I've also a bit of nostalgia for the old 626 and 323 jellybeans.

I'm getting off course. You say Ford's turned the corner? Great. I wish they'd done so sooner, because I made my dad by a CPO BMW over another stupid Ford. IMO, a company's turned the corner after their car has been running reliably at least 5 years. So IOW, let's look at the 2005-6 Fords and see how much of a corner has been turned. If we're basing this on the last couple of years, we've actually not given them enough time to prove shit.

I'm not born in this country and have no allegiance to the domestics. I got nothing invested in them, and if you know my opinion on other pieces of technology, you'd know I only care about what works best for me. I'm pretty fair-weather, but the situation on the car front simply hasn't changed significantly enough to warrant even half a page of discussion. I'll leave you and others to your own devices. I don't make car repairs so either I'm extremely lucky, or maybe I just know what the fuck I'm talking about. PEACE.

Dude are you really asking me if I know why you're supposed to change oil in a car? I'm not some rube or anything. I change the oil in my car by myself. I know what it looks like when it needs to be changed. And I'm getting really tired of you pretending that I said that oil needs to be changed every 3000 miles. You're only doing it so you can try to act knowledgeable to everyone else on the thread who isn't reading every word.

It's a bad idea to wait until 9000+ miles to change the oil in a car because I guarantee you that it has lost a significant amount of its viscosity well before it gets close to 9000 miles. Sure it might run okay but you've got to know that the oil is really close to its end of life at that point. You're risking engine damage at that point, and that's before the variables of driving conditions and the type of driver behind the wheel.

And if you're talking about long-term quality then you can still point to the Fusion as a good car. As far as I know it has never been recalled. It came out for the 2005 or 2006 model year. It's definitely been recalled less than the Camry. Ford does not own Mazda. They had a majority 30. something percent stake in the company. It is now drastically less than that. While a lot of the brands Ford owned didn't do well all of them failed before Ford ever touched them. And in Volvo's case they completely turned them around until the economy hit.

And if you're still citing Toyotas - even now - as bastions of reliability then my guess would veer towards lucky rather than knowing what you're talking about.

 

[Stinkles]

2011 Mustang is getting a 305HP V6 rated at 30mpg highway and a 412HP 5.0 L V8 for the GT.

And the 2665 Mustang flies. We're talking 'bout 2010.

 

[gcubed]

if your judging the life left in your oil by its color and clarity you are a moron...

 

[Tideas]

will they make reliable cars though?

 

[Gallbaro]

Another wonderful way for you drivers to get distracted and run me over.

 

[Pimpwerx]

if your judging the life left in your oil by its color and clarity you are a moron...

I hope that's not directed at me. I can hear the change in the quality of the oil. My engine has a rougher engine note around the 3500 mile mark, and that continues until I change the oil. The color gets dark after 2000 miles, synth or not. OTOH, when you change your oil, if you see a lot of grit, then it means you went too long on your change. I couldn't imagine changing out my oil without looking at it to see how it's faired.

Honestly, how do you judge life left on your oil, by the label on the bottle? Oil companies sell oil. Why wouldn't they want to sell more to you? The Slick50 infomercials were there best for demonstrating how well modern machinery can work with a minimum of lube. I think they used to get thousands of miles even after completely removing the oil pan.

Call me a moron all you want, I don't give a rip. I know more about cars than 90% of this thread, and you'll NEVER see me come into a threat complaining about some mechanical problem or some shit like that. I buy quality machines that can withstand the severe abuse I put them under. I give all my machines the monicker Slave*. I beat the hell out of my cars, computers and phones. But they don't break, because I know how to pick quality hardware. When I tell you guys something about these cars, it's based on what I would do in your place. I never experience buyer's remorse, and I never need someone else to fix shit for me. No one has to listen to me, but I'm fucking right. The same way no one has to listen to their sys admin's advice, but you know he's right.

Maybe I've been extremely lucky. When someone from this thread has their 2011 Ford die on them, or require a visit to your local dealership, PM me. I'll be sure to tell you "I told you so," and then laugh my ass off at your misfortune. The only money I've spent on my last two cars was regular maintenance and gas. But hey...maybe I'm a fucking moron, right? Pfft. PEACE.

 

[wonderkins]

I'm a Honda guy myself.

We bought our first Honda - on '06 Accord brand new and I'm converted. I'm not sure about other models, but Honda has viscosity meters that measure oil life and tell you when your oil is actually about to die, built right into the dashboard. We get about 6k-7k miles between oil changes on the accord. You can actually keep track of the percentage of oil life left by hitting a button on the dash.

We also traded in my '06 Ford F-150 Lariat on a '10 Honda Odessey mini-van the week before Christams and got all leather, and all the bells and whistles on it. I've put 1k miles on it already for Holiday travelling and my oil life is still sitting on about 85%.

Card carrying Hondaphile, as well. Growing up on the west coast, Honda's the reflexive choice. My first car was a used, single-owner '91 CRX Si mercifully unmolested by kits, doodads, or rust when I found it advertised. Loved it. And then it was rear-ended. Some people pine for 300+ hp beasts. That's cool; but, I'd love to get my 108 hp CRX back.

Our neighbors bought an '09 Odyssey. They traded in their '04. They have two young kids they cart around. They love it. Definitely see why it wins so many awards. Perfect people hauler.

 

[nib95]

Great presentation.

 

[Archer]

Jaguars are shit.

Not true.

I sat in a new XK Super Sport today at the B&W booth here at CES. It truly owns any luxury car I've ever sat in, save a Rolls or Bentley. S class and A8s looked way down market. If I was in the market for a lux-mobile, this would be at the top of my list.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Dude are you really asking me if I know why you're supposed to change oil in a car? I'm not some rube or anything. I change the oil in my car by myself. I know what it looks like when it needs to be changed. And I'm getting really tired of you pretending that I said that oil needs to be changed every 3000 miles. You're only doing it so you can try to act knowledgeable to everyone else on the thread who isn't reading every word.

No, I'm not. The original comment was made to point out that you can't abuse domestics the same way. A fucking Ford would have shat the bed already. I don't need to "act" knowledgeable, I am knowledgeable. Believe me or not, I don't give a shit.

It's a bad idea to wait until 9000+ miles to change the oil in a car because I guarantee you that it has lost a significant amount of its viscosity well before it gets close to 9000 miles. Sure it might run okay but you've got to know that the oil is really close to its end of life at that point. You're risking engine damage at that point, and that's before the variables of driving conditions and the type of driver behind the wheel.

Right, and even the 3 Corolla engines I've used (my Spyder engine is just a Corolla DX engine IIRC) have managed to survive multiple extended runs like that. Why? Viscosity breakdown means fuck all as long as the basic lubrication is there. It's why Slick50's infomercials are so eye-opening. Take away the oil pan and all you really need is a minumum of lube on the rods and shaft to keep the pistons moving and the engine combusting. Oil companies use words like "viscosity breakdown" in their ads to scare the fucking rubes. Again, older cars did just fine with shittier oil products and far lesspublic awareness. Oh...but I'm trying to make myself "act knowledgeable", right?

And if you're talking about long-term quality then you can still point to the Fusion as a good car. As far as I know it has never been recalled. It came out for the 2005 or 2006 model year. It's definitely been recalled less than the Camry. Ford does not own Mazda. They had a majority 30. something percent stake in the company. It is now drastically less than that. While a lot of the brands Ford owned didn't do well all of them failed before Ford ever touched them. And in Volvo's case they completely turned them around until the economy hit.

And if you're still citing Toyotas - even now - as bastions of reliability then my guess would veer towards lucky rather than knowing what you're talking about.

Opinions are like assholes, right? Difference being that fans of domestics like to make stupid fucking claims like, "b-b-b-but they're recent cars are this and that." A car is more than a 5 year product, but I'm glad you can point to 05-06 models of Fords that are great cars. Never been recalled? Wow. What were the Camry recalls for during that time period? I've had recalls on my Toyota Corolla...for like fucking lighters or a seat belt fastener. Are we goin to peck quality of cars, or are we going to pretend that Fords run reliably years down the line?

FIX OR REPAIR DAILY is a thing of the past, people. Enjoy your Ford Shitbox. The first time you take it to a show, PM me. I'll point out that my 2001 Spyder still has yet to make a single trip to one, and never will. Unless I crash it again, it will see another 10 years. My comments are based on a track record from a company that has PROVEN itself better than Ford. I don't expect a lot of people to agree in a thread catered to domestics, but I don't expect naivety either. Whatever man, it's not my money. I can't say anything more insulting than "enjoy donating to your domestic charities." People make stupid fucking decisions all the time. *shrug* PEACE.

 

[comrade]

Time for some truth.

You'd be hard pressed to find better cars than the Mondeo and Focus in their class.

You'd be hard pressed to say Corvettes and Mustangs are not amazing value for money (despite the fact they are made out of plastic and have poor handling).

The Mustang has bad handling. The Corvette does not.

 

[Jasoco]

no flying car=fail

God dammit! We have 5 and a half more years before Back to the Future II becomes all one big lie. Hell, we already got the hats and sort of got the sneakers, but where are the hover cars? I have $39,999.95 all lined up to but that shit. How about the self-drying jackets? Or big giant TV's on our walls that display 16 channels at once? (We're lucky if our devices have two tuners these days. How about paying for 16 CableCard's per month?) Or Fax machines in every room??!! Wait, fuck that one.

But yeah. It's all about the cars. Science has failed us if we don't have hover technology by late 2014.

Also, all these new technological cars are cool and all, but it'll be years before I can even afford to replace the 1996 Mystique I am currently driving.

 

[akachan ningen]

Doesn't Ford own Mazda?

They used to. When the financial crisis happened, they sold their shares back to mazda, so they are independent again. They still share technology though.

 

[dLMN8R]

:lol wow, this thread is pathetic. The Ford Fusion is an incredible car, and Ford deserves every bit of the success it's been getting lately.

Why waste your money on domestics? Ford may be the best here, but they're still shit. I'd just wait for this to be aped by the EU or JP manufacturers. Toyota had mp3 playback standard in the Scion Tc before anyone else jumped on, so I can see them offering stuff like this in the next iteration of that car. If this is enough to get you to throw your money away on a Ford, then just buy a cheapo Civic and an Android phone that'll do the same thing and not require constant repairs.

My dad went through countless Fords (leases too, so these were practically new) and all of them had to make trips to the dealer for repairs. I've owned two Toyotas. One is still running in Curacao with over 200k miles, and my Spyder if about to break 100k. Neither has seen the inside of a repair shop, and never will. Fcking bombproof. Try going 9000 miles on non-synthetic oil in a Ford without the engine crapping out on you. I've done that countless times in my old Corolla. I just cannot in good faith recommend anyone buy a domestic car unless they're just not fond of their money. PEACE.

My 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid shits on the competition. And thanks to SYNC, it does it on my voice command.

*ding* "please say a command" *bop*

me: "Hi SYNC, can you please shit on the competition?"

*ding* "navigating to FRED MEYER FERTILIZER SECTION" *bop*

 

[Crisis]

Okay Pimpwerx. I've really had it with you. You're a fucking idiot and I'm not replying to this anymore after this post. I don't really give a shit what you say because you're too busy trying to move the goalposts back after you fuck up. And I really think you don't even have a clue about whatever point you were trying to make except for "FIX OR REPAIR DAILY HURR HURRRRRRRRRRRRRR".

No, I'm not. The original comment was made to point out that you can't abuse domestics the same way. A fucking Ford would have shat the bed already.

Let me show you what you actually wrote since you're too busy playing revisionist history.

3000 miles or every 3 months isn't some tolerance for the hardware. In the mid-20th century, what was the standard for maintenance? Engine oil has improved significantly in quality, and the additives mean you can get more than that 3000 miles, so long as you're not driving an unreliable piece of shit from a domestic, I guess.

That is what you wrote as a reply to the first comment I made in this thread. The number 3000 doesn't even fucking show up in that post. Seriously. Read it for yourself if you like. But let's put that aside for a minute, or at least until you come up with another bullshit reason that you brought it up in the first place. Are you really going to sit there and say that a Ford engine can't go for 3000 miles without an oil change? Because that would be stupider than everything you've already said in this thread combined.

I don't need to "act" knowledgeable, I am knowledgeable. Believe me or not, I don't give a shit.

Oh don't worry. I already don't believe you.

Right, and even the 3 Corolla engines I've used (my Spyder engine is just a Corolla DX engine IIRC) have managed to survive multiple extended runs like that. Why? Viscosity breakdown means fuck all as long as the basic lubrication is there.

No Pimpwerx. Just no. Viscosity breakdown actually means a whole fucking lot. Do you even know what the word "viscosity" means? I looked it up for you just so that you could understand it in case you didn't. This is a pretty helpful definition I think:

Viscosity is a measure of the resistance of a fluid which is being deformed by either shear stress or extensional stress. In everyday terms (and for fluids only), viscosity is "thickness"

Let me simplify this for you because I do not think you quite understand it. We use oil for lubricating the parts in the engine of a car right? The oil has a property called "viscosity". You can look at the definition I quoted earlier but an even simpler way to look at it in this particular case is as "thickness" of the oil. A car engine can use a maximum viscosity of oil that is predetermined by the manufacturer. Each engine has a specific grade of viscosity that it likes the customer to use for that engine. That'll protect against hot and cold startups and does all kinds of wonderful things as well. Simply put dude - the viscosity of the oil in your car has a LOT to do with the lubrication that your engine is getting. As time goes on and as the engine is used then the oil gradually will lose its viscosity and gets thinner. That's why we replace it every so often. Is it not a good idea to wait until the oil has lost almost all of its viscosity to replace it. Many variables can affect the duration of the oil's life including how the car was driven, climate conditions, and other variables. Therefore it is typically a good idea to change it before doing something stupid like driving it for 9000 miles without changing it. You can't know how the variables have affected the oil in your car until you check the oil. And if you're waiting until 9000 fucking miles to change the oil it could possibly be too late.

And you know what dude? I'm glad you never had to replace the engine in any of your Corollas. I really am. That's an expensive thing to do. But you know what? Just because you did something stupid and nothing bad happened because of it does not mean that what you did wasn't stupid. It means you got a little lucky. It happens from time to time. But you're still stupid.

It's why Slick50's infomercials are so eye-opening. Take away the oil pan and all you really need is a minumum of lube on the rods and shaft to keep the pistons moving and the engine combusting. Oil companies use words like "viscosity breakdown" in their ads to scare the fucking rubes. Again, older cars did just fine with shittier oil products and far lesspublic awareness. Oh...but I'm trying to make myself "act knowledgeable", right?

Oh my god dude. This is the second time in here that you referenced a fucking infomercial. Do you work for Slick50? Do they pay you to spread that ridiculous anti-oil change propaganda bullshit in here? I've never seen a Slick50 infomercial. You know who has? The FTC. They found Slick50 to be a pretty fucking suspect product. But you know what? I'll show some quotes from them if you don't mind.

The magic ingredient in Slick 50, Liquid Ring, Matrix, QM1 and T-Plus from K-Mart is Polytetrafluoroethylene.

By the way - Polytetrafluoroethylene is better known by its commercial name "Teflon", which was made by Dupont. Dupont had this to say about Teflon:

Teflon is not useful as an ingredient in oil additives or oils used for internal combustion engines.

But hey - The FTC took a look at Slick50's claims. I wonder what they thought about Teflon being used as an oil additive.

PTFE is a solid which is added to engine oil and coats the moving parts of the engine. However, such solids seem even more inclined to coat non-moving parts, like oil passages and filters. After all, if it can build up under the pressures and friction exerted on a cylinder wall, then it stands to reason it should build up even better in places with low pressures and virtually no friction.

This conclusion seems to be borne out by tests on oil additives containing PTFE conducted by the NASA Lewis Research Center, which said in their report, "In the types of bearing surface contact we have looked at, we have seen no benefit. In some cases we have seen detrimental effect. The solids in the oil tend to accumulate at inlets and act as a dam, which simply blocks the oil from entering. Instead of helping, it is actually depriving parts of lubricant" (Rau).

But wait! There's more!

In 1997, three subsidiaries of Quaker State Corp. (the makers of Slick 50) settled Federal Trade Commission charges that ads for Quaker State's Slick 50 Engine Treatment were false and unsubstantiated. According to the FTC complaint, claims such as the following made in Slick 50 ads falsely represented that without Slick 50, auto engines generally have little or no protection from wear at start-up and commonly experience premature failure caused by wear

Hm. How very interesting. There's more to it but I think you get the point. You twice cited Slick50 infomercials as examples of how little oil, or "lubrication" you actually need to make an engine run properly. And these guys settled with the FTC because they were making bullshit claims in said infomercials. I have to wonder - even if you've never used Slick50 products in your car (and at this point I'm willing to bet that you're stupid enough to have done so), is that where you're getting your information on all of this? Because I have to say that the shit you're saying reads an awful lot like the shit they're saying.

Opinions are like assholes, right? Difference being that fans of domestics like to make stupid fucking claims like, "b-b-b-but they're recent cars are this and that." A car is more than a 5 year product, but I'm glad you can point to 05-06 models of Fords that are great cars. Never been recalled? Wow. What were the Camry recalls for during that time period? I've had recalls on my Toyota Corolla...for like fucking lighters or a seat belt fastener. Are we goin to peck quality of cars, or are we going to pretend that Fords run reliably years down the line?

You should be glad that I can point to a 05-06 car that is a great car. Especially considering that it was your idea and your standard, you fuckwit.

You say Ford's turned the corner? Great. I wish they'd done so sooner, because I made my dad by a CPO BMW over another stupid Ford. IMO, a company's turned the corner after their car has been running reliably at least 5 years. So IOW, let's look at the 2005-6 Fords and see how much of a corner has been turned. If we're basing this on the last couple of years, we've actually not given them enough time to prove shit.

You really should quit playing "move the goalposts". You're fucking awful at it.

And what were the Camry recalls for? Dude are you living in a cave or something? Toyota recalled 3.8 million vehicles including the Camry for unintended acceleration because of the stupid ass floor mats they put in their vehicles. It is also the biggest recall in history for any manufacturer. They've also recalled the Camry for several other things in the last few years alone. Their cars are not exactly the highest standard of quality that you think they are.

FIX OR REPAIR DAILY is a thing of the past, people. Enjoy your Ford Shitbox. The first time you take it to a show, PM me. I'll point out that my 2001 Spyder still has yet to make a single trip to one, and never will. Unless I crash it again, it will see another 10 years.

I'm not even going to pretend that I understand what you're trying to say in this shit. It doesn't make any sense but I'm sure it's stupid like everything else you've said in this thread.

My comments are based on a track record from a company that has PROVEN itself better than Ford. I don't expect a lot of people to agree in a thread catered to domestics, but I don't expect naivety either. Whatever man, it's not my money. I can't say anything more insulting than "enjoy donating to your domestic charities." People make stupid fucking decisions all the time. *shrug* PEACE.

Let me get this straight. You don't expect people to agree with you in a thread where you came in here and told everyone that drives a domestic manufacturer automobile that they were stupid for buying it and that they're "donating to domestic charities"? Especially when you cited Toyota as the most reliable brand of car? Wow - what a concept.

And you further solidified your point by trying to tell everyone that it's cool to drive a car for 9000 miles without an oil change because you've done so in your Toyotas based off of completely ridiculous advice from a company that has been proven to be full of shit by the FTC, NASA, Dupont and their own settlement with the FTC? Hey you're an engineer right? Maybe you should engineer a better argument and quit trolling a thread about a domestic car manufacturer. You ought to give everyone here a list of products buildings or services you've worked on so we can all stay the fuck away from them. PEACE.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

the one thing Ford needs to fix is their ugly blue logo. It always stands out and looks tacky on more modern looking cars.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Schrade]

the one thing Ford needs to fix is their ugly blue logo. It always stands out and looks tacky on more modern looking cars.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

This is what Queer Eye for the Straight Guy has done to the world

Damn Crab People.

 

[Grifter]

Doesn't Ford own Mazda? I remember that the B series trucks from the 90s and early 2000s were exactly the same as the Ford Rangers.

Ford owns chunks of Mazda and Volvo, so I still get lesser discounts from those brands.

 

[NinjaFridge]

Holy shit at Crisis, awesome.