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[Sorian]

Oh... I see. I guess that makes sense for Ty4on's.

Sounds like a PM I would have got if I still had my FA.



Weird, isn't this the second or third time you weren't aware of someone's FA? It's here:

Second time and it's because I really don't care about FAs. They've only been important if it doesn't make sense with the role claimed.

You're not as solvey as OA, tsk tsk.

I was not allowed to vote 6 hours before the deadline. I claimed 12 thinking it could be helpful down the line should there be some scum shenanigans. I crumbed 6 by making the first and last sentences 6 words long.

Hmm, that first one isn't a sentence :S
I don't remember why, but I think it was thinking a period or colon was too obvious?

That is such a weird breadcrumb. Why? Also, talk me through the process of why you thought the difference between 12 and 6 hours would matter since scum shenanigans always happen much closer to day end.

 

[Sorian]

Indeed

Oh, I guess 3. I forgot someone's FA yesterday too, either nin's or OA's, think it was nin's.

 

[Ty4on]

That is such a weird breadcrumb. Why? Also, talk me through the process of why you thought the difference between 12 and 6 hours would matter since scum shenanigans always happen much closer to day end.

How else would I crumb it?
That's an easy and fast way to do it and doesn't stick out.

As for why? I dunno. Figured it could come in handy. I thought about voting in that period later on to gauge reactions thinking scum would be on top of that, but I've started to think scum didn't care as much as I thought.

I'm vanilla too btw.

 

[StarSketch]

What do you think about surviving another night?

Depends on if "Chatty Townie" is more important than "Heavily Implied Townie who Isn't Chatty" or not.

 

[Ty4on]

Depends on if "Chatty Townie" is more important than "Heavily Implied Townie who Isn't Chatty" or not.

Sticks a bit out tho. Stanley wasn't terribly chatty either.

What do you think it says about the scum team?

 

[Ty4on]

No? Read what I said and just remember the game. I've effectively ignored Natiko every time he's come up. I made a day 1 read and Natiko never did anything that really bucked my thought process so I just kept town reading him and moving on to others. At this point, what's left is impossible so I had to go back and re-evaluate and without my original bias, Natiko is the real issue on the day 2 vote.

Why tho? Very different playstyle, but it feels like an odd mistake post PK Gaming.

 

[Sorian]

Why tho? Very different playstyle, but it feels like an odd mistake post PK Gaming.

Except I knew PK gaming was scum by day 3. I died so early on that this is like comparing apples and oranges. If anything, Persona bolstered me since PK was a weaker read than my Natiko was not scum read and I was spot on with that.

 

[Ty4on]

Except I knew PK gaming was scum by day 3. I died so early on that this is like comparing apples and oranges. If anything, Persona bolstered me since PK was a weaker read than my Natiko was not scum read and I was spot on with that.

He wasn't town either tho

I feel that's not totally irrelevant. Neutrals also have to play by the scum book a bit and stay out of lynches while not really caring about finding scum.

 

[Ty4on]

If Natiko is scum, this is his first scum game. I felt like that should've been a worry when you've misread "newbie" (feels odd to call Nat a newbie) scum before.

 

[Sorian]

He wasn't town either tho

I feel that's not totally irrelevant. Neutrals also have to play by the scum book a bit and stay out of lynches while not really caring about finding scum.

The read was that he wasn't scum, I made that point very specifically. I do have good day 1 reads most of the time. It was clear he was not in communication with a team at all. I even talked about this in Persona if you remember. I purposely ignore a sub set of players that I get a good gut feeling for at the start and put them back in later if they are still alive and it doesn't make sense anymore for them to be town. That's what's happened here.

 

[Sorian]

If Natiko is scum, this is his first scum game. I felt like that should've been a worry when you've misread "newbie" (feels odd to call Nat a newbie) scum before.

Are we still talking about PK? There is a difference between misreading someone I've never played with and someone I have. There is also a difference between being new to mafia completely and being new to a specific alignment.

 

[StarSketch]

Sticks a bit out tho. Stanley wasn't terribly chatty either.

What do you think it says about the scum team?

They're probably expecting me to get myself lynched...again. Nin throwing shade and me disappearing last day phase doesn't help my case.

I might go down during the night phase anyway though.

 

[Sorian]

They're probably expecting me to get myself lynched...again. Nin throwing shade and me disappearing last day phase doesn't help my case.

I might go down during the night phase anyway though.

I don't see how they expect you to get lynched. At this point either you're scum or they are hoping your inaction messes things up when all of town has to act as a unit. Banking on the first is suicide imo.

 

[Ty4on]

Are we still talking about PK? There is a difference between misreading someone I've never played with and someone I have. There is also a difference between being new to mafia completely and being new to a specific alignment.

I take misreading scum as town very seriously. Especially on Gafia the sample size is never going to be great and I feel like had I been you in that situation I would've been more cautious of town reading people I had never seen as scum.

You've been town reading Natiko throughout this game and I can't remember seeing you being suspicious of him or trying to solve him.

 

[StarSketch]

I don't see how they expect you to get lynched. At this point either you're scum or they are hoping your inaction messes things up when all of town has to act as a unit. Banking on the first is suicide imo.

Are you accusing me of being scum, or are you expecting me to be 100% MIA all day phase again?

 

[Sorian]

I take misreading scum as town very seriously. Especially on Gafia the sample size is never going to be great and I feel like had I been you in that situation I would've been more cautious of town reading people I had never seen as scum.

You've been town reading Natiko throughout this game and I can't remember seeing you being suspicious of him or trying to solve him.

You're right you can't remember it, it's never happened. You're quoting my meta a lot so I'm trusting you to actually piece it together. Why would I hardcore town read a scummate? If you are going to come back with "because they were widely townread, why would you buck the trend?" then I counter with, why would I bother bucking it today? I could have just as easily stayed on you as you were my third and scum Sorian could easily play it was I couldn't be wrong on 3 reads, no way.

 

[Ty4on]

I don't see how they expect you to get lynched. At this point either you're scum or they are hoping your inaction messes things up when all of town has to act as a unit. Banking on the first is suicide imo.

I love pointless questions too much not to ask:

If you had been scum with Sketch, how would you play it? Sure, the obvious answer is to "play it like always" and defend her because scum overrider is too OP, but unlike a normal overrider (I seriously doubt she'd be lying about the FA if scum, why not wait?) she can't mess up lylo and her command looks very scummy. Defending her could've been suicide if town somehow decided to lynch her.

 

[Sorian]

Are you accusing me of being scum, or are you expecting me to be 100% MIA all day phase again?

I am saying I think scum expects you to be MIA. It is also my general fear when I saw you still alive which is why I am pressing the importance of this on you.

 

[Sorian]

I love pointless questions too much not to ask:

If you had been scum with Sketch, how would you play it? Sure, the obvious answer is to "play it like always" and defend her because scum overrider is too OP, but unlike a normal overrider (I seriously doubt she'd be lying about the FA if scum, why not wait?) she can't mess up lylo and her command looks very scummy. Defending her could've been suicide if town somehow decided to lynch her.

I would accept my free win. It's the same idea that would have happened in werewolf 1 before the re-roll. Gafia never would have figured out a scum double voter barring some obvious scum saves. It would be easy to tell Star to act the same, fade in the shadows a bunch and just sit on her claim.

 

[Ty4on]

You're right you can't remember it, it's never happened. You're quoting my meta a lot so I'm trusting you to actually piece it together. Why would I hardcore town read a scummate? If you are going to come back with "because they were widely townread, why would you buck the trend?" then I counter with, why would I bother bucking it today? I could have just as easily stayed on you as you were my third and scum Sorian could easily play it was I couldn't be wrong on 3 reads, no way.

I thought the exact same thing yesterday. I thought you and Natiko were unlikely W/W because it was too obvious.

How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?

We haven't quite done that, rarely can in Mafia, but improbable things happen as well.

You're known for bussing, but that's not what you really wanna do. You don't think it's a good strategy.
I'm going to steal your argument about not wanting to buck the trend because it makes sense. To most scum it is a very natural response to be suspicious of your scum mates, even if they're not being scummy (who has time to read them). You try hard to play as your town self as scum and may have known how odd it could've looked if you scum read Natiko while the rest of town didn't (possibly getting yourself lynched) and by town reading him you could use your power of influencing lynches to prevent him from being a lynch candidate. You can play reactively as well and change your tune if Nat starts posting scummy things.

Why change now? Well, you aren't really bucking the trend any more. Nobody had posted a read of Natiko when you made yours, but it isn't a stretch to imagine a town suspicious of the person who's been town read the entire game and is still alive at lylo. On top of that he has pushed for most of the mislynches in this game.

 

[Ty4on]

I would accept my free win. It's the same idea that would have happened in werewolf 1 before the re-roll. Gafia never would have figured out a scum double voter barring some obvious scum saves. It would be easy to tell Star to act the same, fade in the shadows a bunch and just sit on her claim.

*makes note*

Scratch that, petition to ban overriders because they're bastard

 

[Sorian]

I thought the exact same thing yesterday. I thought you and Natiko were unlikely W/W because it was too obvious.



We haven't quite done that, rarely can in Mafia, but improbable things happen as well.

You're known for bussing, but that's not what you really wanna do. You don't think it's a good strategy.
I'm going to steal your argument about not wanting to buck the trend because it makes sense. To most scum it is a very natural response to be suspicious of your scum mates, even if they're not being scummy (who has time to read them). You try hard to play as your town self as scum and may have known how odd it could've looked if you scum read Natiko while the rest of town didn't (possibly getting yourself lynched) and by town reading him you could use your power of influencing lynches to prevent him from being a lynch candidate. You can play reactively as well and change your tune if Nat starts posting scummy things.

Why change now? Well, you aren't really bucking the trend any more. Nobody had posted a read of Natiko when you made yours, but it isn't a stretch to imagine a town suspicious of the person who's been town read the entire game and is still alive at lylo. On top of that he has pushed for most of the mislynches in this game.

Let's assume it is me and him though. Do you really think I have a better chance of living to end game or him? In this plan, one of us busses the other but the other still has to survive a lynch attempt later. I'm already in an uphill battle today, you really think I'd fare better tomorrow. And I'm well aware of the issue here, even as town I have to survive today and tomorrow's lynches most like to actually win.

 

[StarSketch]

I am saying I think scum expects you to be MIA. It is also my general fear when I saw you still alive which is why I am pressing the importance of this on you.

Ok.

Yesterday was a huge cock up on my part and I'm going to try and contribute.

 

[Ty4on]

Let's assume it is me and him though. Do you really think I have a better chance of living to end game or him? In this plan, one of us busses the other but the other still has to survive a lynch attempt later. I'm already in an uphill battle today, you really think I'd fare better tomorrow. And I'm well aware of the issue here, even as town I have to survive today and tomorrow's lynches most like to actually win.

Maybe, you're more experienced.

How would you do things differently as Natiko's mate? Not just from your PoV, but also what you'd tell him to do?

 

[Sorian]

Maybe, you're more experienced.

How would you do things differently as Natiko's mate? Not just from your PoV, but also what you'd tell him to do?

I wouldn't be pushing him today, he's the one with the heavy town read from everyone. Even what Flux came with was weak thought I wouldn't have known that when I said my piece on Natiko. Biggest thing I would have told him was not to save Bronx on day 2. That was a sinking ship, why he on it? The overrider had already made it clear that she wanted Blarg more than Bronx. She may have gone for the majority if it was Bronx but why not vote Bronx and gamble when he was likely a shoe in for the next day anyway?

 

[Ty4on]

I wouldn't be pushing him today, he's the one with the heavy town read from everyone. Even what Flux came with was weak thought I wouldn't have known that when I said my piece on Natiko. Biggest thing I would have told him was not to save Bronx on day 2. That was a sinking ship, why he on it? The overrider had already made it clear that she wanted Blarg more than Bronx. She may have gone for the majority if it was Bronx but why not vote Bronx and gamble when he was likely a shoe in for the next day anyway?

He was more pushing for Blarg rather than trying to save Bronx while you were on Bronx. Did he directly defend Bronx?

What was your team's strategy while voting in mean girl? You were the only one on Jamie and I think the only scum on the other scum lynches too (sans Stork).

 

[Natiko]

Sorry I'm not going to be able to do anything lengthy until late. Skimming though things though I see Sorian thinks I'm scum because I voted on Blarg over Bronx? I can understand the perspective but I'm not going to apologize for voting for someone that was repeatedly lying and caught in the act. He wouldn't even answer my questions and instead just said I was attacking him for pointing out his contradictions. Maybe it's something everyone else has learned to deal with playing with Blarg but this is my first game with him and of the two games I had seen him in before he never repeatedly lied and then attacked people for calling him out. You can lynch me for that if you want but it won't end well. I still think Ty and Flux are the scum team. They both took the same stance on Terra that Bronx did (just not as loud) and both have been oddly noncommittal. Ty when he has committed it's always been to strongly affirm someone as town despite having no knowledge about it if he truly is town.

 

[Ty4on]

They both took the same stance on Terra that Bronx did (just not as loud)

Loud? Where? I think this was the only post he made before Terra died.

Can someone lay out a convincing argument as to what makes Terra so scummy other than "He keeps denying being scum"?

---------------------------------

Ty when he has committed it's always been to strongly affirm someone as town despite having no knowledge about it if he truly is town.

Why does that make me scum?

 

[Natiko]

Bronx was very loud regarding Terra, go look at all the posts after the flip where he is attacking everyone that voted on Terra. It was about the only thing he talked about D1 and D2.

It strikes me as odd for someone to rarely give strong opinions and whenever they do it's been "____ is town! Don't vote for them." Your approach has just had some conviction for those handful of people for some reason but all the other times you haven't really had any strong feelings. I can understand a strong argument when it's more evidence based, but I don't think I've seen you really piece together an argument this game yet in those few instances you seemed so certain. Because of that I'm inclined to believe you have information only scum would know.

 

[Ty4on]

Bronx was very loud regarding Terra, go look at all the posts after the flip where he is attacking everyone that voted on Terra. It was about the only thing he talked about D1 and D2.

Find all the post of me discussing Terra's death after he flipped. I find it very different to discuss it pre or post flip.

It strikes me as odd for someone to rarely give strong opinions and whenever they do it's been "____ is town! Don't vote for them." Your approach has just had some conviction for those handful of people for some reason but all the other times you haven't really had any strong feelings. I can understand a strong argument when it's more evidence based, but I don't think I've seen you really piece together an argument this game yet in those few instances you seemed so certain. Because of that I'm inclined to believe you have information only scum would know.

I've tried my best to piece together why I thought people were town to convince people, but I usually read people differently than others. Those wagons all felt so pointless as well. I came from another game where town lynched my town reads and wanted to do more to stop them here, but failed yet again.

 

[Natiko]

Find all the post of me discussing Terra's death after he flipped. I find it very different to discuss it pre or post flip.

I've tried my best to piece together why I thought people were town to convince people, but I usually read people differently than others. Those wagons all felt so pointless as well. I came from another game where town lynched my town reads and wanted to do more to stop them here, but failed yet again.

You'll have to wait until I'm home to look through those posts and see if others jump out at me. It was what I had in the reads list that stuck out previously since all three of you were on the same page. I was willing to hear Terra out and encouraged him to make his case if he wasn't scum and he didn't really bother, but you three all just felt (or knew) he wasn't scum from the start.

What are your thoughts currently then Ty? Same to Star. I said it yesterday too but I really want to hear more from Star. If she's scum and we're barely looking at her we're fucked, but more likely she's town and just isn't putting out her thoughts as much as would benefit us.

 

[Ty4on]

I'm aware I'm not contributing much today but I'm in a position where I think I have scum narrowed down to 2 out of 3 and assuming no role fuckery (which at this point it would take exactly a vote thief), we have two mislynches so math has it. I'm convinced of Natiko, I'm convinced of Stanley (Natiko put it into words better than I could but Stanley's questions yesterday to Bronx were just too real, that wasn't scum posturing to scum). I'm convinced of Star. That leaves Flux as my only eh feeling so I'm kind of falling on meta there to say he is town.

Was one of those three me? I'm curious what happened to this read post flips.

And, once again, there's the part where your FA conveniently discourages voting for you. So people have avoided placing votes on you, because of this.

What I've seen of your arguments today haven't convinced me otherwise. Nah, I'm doing this, and I doubt I'll be changing who I vote for.

Vote: OceanicAir

Did you name Oceanic second on purpose? I'm curious what you thought about him finishing second.

 

[Natiko]

Why is Terrabyte becoming the prime target again? Can't say much of anything has stood out negatively to me. People seem to be talking about previous games and post activity, and how that has changed this time. Is that it?

I do. You're different from the last game and I think you'd be defending yourself differently as scum. Frustrated at why people misread you is townie.

(In response to Terra asking if anyone thinks he's town)

Fair enough, you do you. It is kinda anti-town though, since if we mislynch that means two town dead D1 :-/

Can someone lay out a convincing argument as to what makes Terra so scummy other than "He keeps denying being scum"?

Precisely. We'll still have little information to go on at the very end of the day phase, where we won't be able to really go back and analyze what the info from his suicide means for the game overall.

I'm not even for lynching Terrabyte in the first place.

Whoa there, I never said I don't believe you're scum, Terrabyte. And the deflect is making me reconsider my stance. You could very well be scum and I know from Persona D1 that even if I think someone's a bad lynch target that the majority is going for, they might in fact be scum and I almost screw it up at the last second.

I'm not defending you here. I'd prefer to lynch Faddy or Blarg but, I mean, I'm not necessarily against you getting lynched either, especially after looking back to earlier posts.

I just can't see Terra behaving like this as scum. He can be overeager as town, but is usually able to keep his cool as scum. I didn't go through a lot of Gafia 1, but in Mini he had a muted response to the votes which (possibly) saved him. This was the polar opposite.

I agree with this. If he doesn't suicide he looks bad, and scum really need to keep their numbers up to win.

This was responding to Ty's post above.

Awesome. Our goddamn cop is dead, and the only reason he's dead is because a suspect few decided to start a train on him for no reason other than "He keeps denying he's scum, he must obviously be scum!" Good lord.

Wow. That is some quality shade.

Here, let me get that quote for you:



Ooh, so scummy. "It is an anti-town move for town to kill themself because if we then mislynch we have two town dead D1."

Yes, clearly I know he is town. It could not possibly be:



As long as we are throwing shade around:





How did that pro-suicide stance work out for town?

You gonna explain pushing Terra to suicide at any time or.......?

A smattering of quotes pre and post suicide. I never got a chance to get on my computer but I said I would go back so here you go. Just seems like the four of you all conveniently knew to distance yourself from the situation.

To be honest, I don't really want to do it, but I am really having a hard time seeing a way for me to get out of today alive.


One thing I do want to say is this: Ty4on and maybe Flux(Correct me if I'm wrong) have either sateted or are acting as if they don't believe me to be scum.


This wine territory, and I am in no way saying we should go after them, but Scum would know I'm town.

This is just a bonus post I noticed skimming through. Didn't think anything of it until now that we're down to the wire. Terra may have been right on the money it turns out.

 

[Natiko]

While I'm at it, to circle back to Sorian's accusation:

I think we should have Star use the override on either Blarg or Flux/OA. Blarg has been continuing to lie, ignores criticism, and further twists things to fit his narrative so clearly there is something amiss there. Flux/OA have the connection of their FAs and have each felt off at times. Flipping one will give us insight on the other and help clear up some questions.

Isn't Natiko pushing for OA or Flux pretty hard though?

I'm fine with either at this point. Blarg, Flux, and king kitty seem to be the preferred choices of everyone. I would rather we do Blarg or Flux as I think we're more likely to hit scum there.

Okay.

VOTE: Blargonaut

have you decided

whether to go by vote leader, starsketch choice? or what

Delaying it any further isn't really important to me. I mean, what are you planning to do? Not about the time, but what do you actually want to do with the override? Just go with whatever the majority wants?

My gut's saying go for Blarg right now, though it looks like he's vote leader anyway, so

I apparently saved Bronx despite putting my vote down before we even knew what guidelines Star would use (if any) for the override and according to Sorian while saving my scum teammate Bronx I was suggesting we murder my other scum teammate Flux. Sorian himself even points it out at the time as seen above. My vote for Blarg had nothing to do with anyone other than Blarg. I wasn't even remotely concerned about vote counts since Star was picking, but I wanted to put my thoughts on record because Blarg seemed so scummy to me. Go back and read the several exchanges Blarg and I had over those pages. He lies, falsely accuses me of being defensive when it was him being aggressive, and refuses to answer questions. I have never played with someone that's done something like that as my teammate. This was worse than CCS's shenanigans in Zelda.

Spoiler

No offence CCS

I'm going to bed now though. Hopefully we can make some progress tomorrow. Right now it feels like we're all on a different page and that's not a recipe for success.

 

[Sorian]

These are out of order because my phone is dumb.

Was one of those three me? I'm curious what happened to this read post flips.

Did you name Oceanic second on purpose? I'm curious what you thought about him finishing second.

Yes one of the three was you, what changed is I re read the entire first half of the game considering I was obviously so far off base and on a re read, I don't see you catering to a scum agenda at all with the known scum.

He was more pushing for Blarg rather than trying to save Bronx while you were on Bronx. Did he directly defend Bronx?

What was your team's strategy while voting in mean girl? You were the only one on Jamie and I think the only scum on the other scum lynches too (sans Stork).

Well yes, no shit he wasn't directly defending Bronx. I don't think he's brain dead, he's obviously doing something right if he's scum. The inverse is still true though, a vote for Blarg still tipped him over and Bronx under and Star was just as likely to go with the majority than not.

As for mean girls, there was no plan day 1 of mean girls, the only two people who talked in scum chat day 1 were me and Jaime and she was having a panic attack effectively the entire time, I told her I'd start bussing and only pull back if she could resurface herself, she never did. The second lynch is because I got stuck on the wagon and had no opportunity to get off and the last with Stork was a clear cut lynch, everyone voted him.

While I'm at it, to circle back to Sorian's accusation:














I apparently saved Bronx despite putting my vote down before we even knew what guidelines Star would use (if any) for the override and according to Sorian while saving my scum teammate Bronx I was suggesting we murder my other scum teammate Flux. Sorian himself even points it out at the time as seen above. My vote for Blarg had nothing to do with anyone other than Blarg. I wasn't even remotely concerned about vote counts since Star was picking, but I wanted to put my thoughts on record because Blarg seemed so scummy to me. Go back and read the several exchanges Blarg and I had over those pages. He lies, falsely accuses me of being defensive when it was him being aggressive, and refuses to answer questions. I have never played with someone that's done something like that as my teammate. This was worse than CCS's shenanigans in Zelda.

Spoiler

No offence CCS

I'm going to bed now though. Hopefully we can make some progress tomorrow. Right now it feels like we're all on a different page and that's not a recipe for success.

A vote for Flux there meant nothing and we both know it. He was not under consideration and it's not even a point you've returned to since then in any serious manner so I'm not sure why you think pointing to it is convincing at all.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Did you name Oceanic second on purpose? I'm curious what you thought about him finishing second.

What?

If you mean him "finishing second" in terms of vote numbers, I guess I think that it sucked that he turned out to be town? It's better that he died in the previous day phase, however, because it means I—and possibly others—wouldn't have to waste our time focusing on him, and ending up in a very bad place had we lynched him today.

It's the same idea that would have happened in werewolf 1 before the re-roll. Gafia never would have figured out a scum double voter barring some obvious scum saves. It would be easy to tell Star to act the same, fade in the shadows a bunch and just sit on her claim.

You know... this might be it. The assumption has been StarSketch is town simply because of her role, when we know exactly that this can be a subversion. Her role could be one of the main reasons this game was touted to be "potentially unbalanced" before it started.

If we look at the flavor, she is the "Ultimate Mastermind" and, more importantly, her command sounds pretty antagonistic and revolves around minions. Also, she was apparently forced to use this command before the end of D3. Maybe the balance here was that, a scum player gets an override ability, but they're also forced to expose themselves through it with that villainous sounding command relatively early on in the game. I'm starting to think this wasn't just nothing, and that she might, in fact, be scum hiding in plain sight.

 

[Sorian]

What?

If you mean him "finishing second" in terms of vote numbers, I guess I think that it sucked that he turned out to be town? It's better that he died in the previous day phase, however, because it means I—and possibly others—wouldn't have to waste our time focusing on him, and ending up in a very bad place had we lynched him today.



You know... this might be it. The assumption has been StarSketch is town simply because of her role, when we know exactly that this can be a subversion. Her role could be one of the main reasons this game was touted to be "potentially unbalanced" before it started.

If we look at the flavor, she is the "Ultimate Mastermind" and, more importantly, her command sounds pretty antagonistic and revolves around minions. Also, she was apparently forced to use this command before the end of D3. Maybe the balance here was that, a scum player gets an override ability, but they're also forced to expose themselves through it with that villainous sounding command relatively early on in the game. I'm starting to think this wasn't just nothing, and that she might, in fact, be scum hiding in plain sight.

And are we willing to gamble the game that Crimson decided to subvert expectations with a role like that? I use the werewolf example but at least a double voter acts more and becomes extremely obvious as time goes on even if our meta didn't approve of it. An override doesn't do the same. I debated if having to use it before D3 ended was a good enough counter but it really doesn't seem like it. I'm not willing to gamble and no matter how you slice it, if she is scum then there is a teammate to deal with first anyway so that takes precedence because then at least we aren't shooting into the darkness hoping that Crimson was trying to change gaf meta forever.

--------

Is there a reason Natiko was posting and still hasn't said his FA?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

And are we willing to gamble the game that Crimson decided to subvert expectations with a role like that? I use the werewolf example but at least a double voter acts more and becomes extremely obvious as time goes on even if our meta didn't approve of it. An override doesn't do the same. I debated if having to use it before D3 ended was a good enough counter but it really doesn't seem like it. I'm not willing to gamble and no matter how you slice it, if she is scum then there is a teammate to deal with first anyway so that takes precedence because then at least we aren't shooting into the darkness hoping that Crimson was trying to change gaf meta forever.

At this point, it all seems like a gamble to me. But at least in StarSketch's case, we've got someone who's clearly designated as "villain" through flavor. I dunno...

With 5 people left, assuming there are 2 scum players left, and leaving out myself, it basically seems like a 50% chance of hitting scum, since I'm starting to be equally suspicious of everyone.

Huh, actually, 1/2 doesn't sound too bad, after writing it down like this.

By the way, Natiko. I haven't been addressing you pointing at me as some kind of scum teammate with my bro Ty4on because there's not much to say about your arguments, but remember when you were so insistent on me and OceanicAir's forbidden actions being "linked," somehow? And that one's alignment implied the other's because of this? What happened to that?

 

[Ty4on]

What?

If you mean him "finishing second" in terms of vote numbers, I guess I think that it sucked that he turned out to be town? It's better that he died in the previous day phase, however, because it means I—and possibly others—wouldn't have to waste our time focusing on him, and ending up in a very bad place had we lynched him today.

Fuck, yes it's about him finishing second. The "name" was supposed to say "make".

Did you make him second on purpose, or?
Basically: What were you thinking during that lynch and what result did you want?

 

[Sorian]

At this point, it all seems like a gamble to me. But at least in StarSketch's case, we've got someone who's clearly designated as "villain" through flavor. I dunno...

With 5 people left, assuming there are 2 scum players left, and leaving out myself, it basically seems like a 50% chance of hitting scum, since I'm starting to be equally suspicious of everyone.

Huh, actually, 1/2 doesn't sound too bad, after writing it down like this.

By the way, Natiko. I haven't been addressing you pointing at me as some kind of scum teammate with my bro Ty4on because there's not much to say about your arguments, but remember when you were so insistent on me and OceanicAir's forbidden actions being "linked," somehow? And that one's alignment implied the other's because of this? What happened to that?

Don't start with the odds argument, that's not how mafia works, sure a townie shooting randomly right now that a 50/50 shot of getting mafia but the issue is that two other townies need to also agree. I'm not lynching in Star today and honestly, I'm probably not lynching on her tomorrow. Take that how you want, that's not my gamble.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Fuck, yes it's about him finishing second. The "name" was supposed to say "make".

Did you make him second on purpose, or?
Basically: What were you thinking during that lynch and what result did you want?

I just vote for who I think is mafia. Actually, I was going to shift my vote to nin at the last moment because I was fearing a tie, but whoever would have caused it would have likely been scum and the primary target today.

I didn't really care about the consequence of OA's claimed FA when I voted. It's something I deliberately ignored since, as I argued before, it was a way for people to never vote for him.

Again, though, I think the silver lining to his death is that he didn't need to be a focus of attention today (another possible mislynch). And if OA were still alive and he got mislynched today, we would have likely lost, considering the possibility of there being 2 scum players left. Fewer people at least gives us fewer people to work with to narrow down scum.

 

[Ty4on]

I just vote for who I think is mafia. Actually, I was going to shift my vote to nin at the last moment because I was fearing a tie, but whoever would have caused it would have likely been scum and the primary target today.

I didn't really care about the consequence of OA's claimed FA when I voted. It's something I deliberately ignored since, as I argued before, it was a way for people to never vote for him.

Again, though, I think the silver lining to his death is that he didn't need to be a focus of attention today (another possible mislynch). And if OA were still alive and he got mislynched today, we would have likely lost, considering the possibility of there being 2 scum players left. Fewer people at least gives us fewer people to work with to narrow down scum.

Thanks for this answer. I couldn't vote, but wanted OA to be second for similar reasons.

Why do you think Stan was killed over you?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Don't start with the odds argument, that's not how mafia works, sure a townie shooting randomly right now that a 50/50 shot of getting mafia but the issue is that two other townies need to also agree. I'm not lynching in Star today and honestly, I'm probably not lynching on her tomorrow. Take that how you want, that's not my gamble.

Eh, I get where you're coming from in that it's a gamble with the meta, but it's not only that. We can see it from her behaviour: she openly asks what most would rather do in a situation, and goes with it. She's passive. She's barely voted, and she never did for Bronx.

You're being real defensive of her, despite this. Do you really think she's town? If so, why?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

Thanks for this answer. I couldn't vote, but wanted OA to be second for similar reasons.

Why do you think Stan was killed over you?

Well, much like kingkitty in the previous night, I can't say I understand their reasoning (though kingkitty had the "semi-confirmed town" thing going for him). I guess it's that Stanley might have always been lying so low that they didn't think he would be a viable candidate for a mislynch? I think he would have been fairly suspicious if he was still alive, though, ala Bronx. So there's that.

As for me, I would guess that maybe I was more active and have made more of my opinions heard, and thus I'm more of a possibility for a mislynch.

Instead, though, I have to wonder how Sorian and Natiko are still alive. Two of the most active and influential players from the start. Like OceanicAir said in his dying breath, he'd fixate on these two if he was still alive, and that might be the right call. Sorian, especially, considering his experience. If I were scum, I wouldn't have even cared about his commuter bluff: I would try to kill him one night and, if that didn't work, I would try to kill him the other night. He seems like too much of a threat, if he were town, to keep alive.

 

[Ty4on]

Eh, I get where you're coming from in that it's a gamble with the meta, but it's not only that. We can see it from her behaviour: she openly asks what most would rather do in a situation, and goes with it. She's passive. She's barely voted, and she never did for Bronx.

You're being real defensive of her, despite this. Do you really think she's town? If so, why?

What's your read of me RN?

 

[FluxWaveZ]

What's your read of me RN?

Could be scum, could be not. Not leaning any particular way. You ask a lot of simple, easy questions that could pass as an excuse for contributing. Same with your Scumputer stuff, or when you were trying to analyze Blarg's posting, which was ultimately pointless.

You've had meta-level discussions with Sorian throughout the game. Might mean something, not sure. Maybe a way to create discussion between you two that's not immediately relevant to the game at hand, but has the illusion that it is.

 

[Ty4on]

Could be scum, could be not. Not leaning any particular way. You ask a lot of simple, easy questions that could pass as an excuse for contributing. Same with your Scumputer stuff, or when you were trying to analyze Blarg's posting, which was ultimately pointless.

You've had meta-level discussions with Sorian throughout the game. Might mean something, not sure. Maybe a way to create discussion between you two that's not immediately relevant to the game at hand, but has the illusion that it is.

The way you're pushing Star and speculating about a Natiko/Sorian team makes it look like you're town reading me.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

The way you're pushing Star and speculating about a Natiko/Sorian team makes it look like you're town reading me.

Also, you seem to like twisting at least my words to suit your narrative, which is irritating. I'm not "pushing" for anyone. Again, I'm actually rather uncertain about everyone at this point, kind of equally. I am in no way town reading you, and this is the second time I've responded as much to you saying it. I guess, in your case, there's less that stands out. Which can also be an indication that you're scum.

 

[Sorian]

Eh, I get where you're coming from in that it's a gamble with the meta, but it's not only that. We can see it from her behaviour: she openly asks what most would rather do in a situation, and goes with it. She's passive. She's barely voted, and she never did for Bronx.

You're being real defensive of her, despite this. Do you really think she's town? If so, why?

I think she is acting the same as she always does, passive and barely voted is her MO to the letter. As is the random pushes on what ends up being misunderstood info. Mix that with the role and yes, obviously I really think she is town.

 

[Sorian]

As for the commuter claim and what you'd do, that's all well and good but I'd argue that shooting into a space that has a 50/50 chance of failing isn't the best option for the scum kill. Missing NKs loses games most of the time.