-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Danganronpa 3 The End of Hope's Peak Academy |OT| Nagito Komaeda's Wild Ride Part Two
- Thread starter MetroidPrimeRib
- Start date
- Status
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Even the kid taking a hacksaw to his neck didn't do anything for me. Just the visuals in DR2 of the eye removal, self starvation, random acts of violence etc. was more effective. The more you elaborate on this series background the more it falls apart.
GoldandBlue
Member
I knew the reason would end up being bullshit for them going Despair. I always thought they each had personal reasons for what drove them there, eventually it was obviously going to be one reason, and the one reason of course ended up being super lame.
The show has been a fun watch but honestly a game would have been nicer to end the Hope Peak arc. Even with two shows to cover things, it wasn't enough and also Despair Arc just makes everyone come off as super dumb for not being able to stop Junko in the first place.
Yeah, this is how I feel right now. I find myself asking more questions that I know won't be answered or can't be anyways.
The show has been a fun watch but honestly a game would have been nicer to end the Hope Peak arc. Even with two shows to cover things, it wasn't enough and also Despair Arc just makes everyone come off as super dumb for not being able to stop Junko in the first place.
Yeah, this is how I feel right now. I find myself asking more questions that I know won't be answered or can't be anyways.
I'm going to wait for the series to finish before making judgements, but I agree that Junko has felt pretty much a villain-sue, while Kamakura has done nothing in the series so far, which is pretty laaame.
And brainwashing being the reason behind despair is lame as well. I mean, why did the DR2 remove all of the school memories, if they could have just deleted everything until they got brainwashed?
And brainwashing being the reason behind despair is lame as well. I mean, why did the DR2 remove all of the school memories, if they could have just deleted everything until they got brainwashed?
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Its 100% clear that when DR1 was made Kodaka didn't think it would become as popular as it did. Now to try and retroactively explain all that, it doesn't work. Zero was purposefully vague, but DR3 is trying to explain it all and it doesn't work.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Hmm
GoldandBlue
Member
Yeah, it'd have been best to leave a lot up to interpretation. Makes me think of Episode III where George tried to tie up every loose end.
She's dead. I refuse anything else. If they backdown on that I'll probably just file this whole thing under 'Totally not canon' in my mind and live in blissful denial.
GoldandBlue
Member
lol I'm waiting for ports of that series to hit Steam. Fuck, am I in for more of this?
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
DR is way too stuck on Junko. It's DR's The Joker, in more ways then just metaphor. It wouldn't surprise me at all if she was once again the villain, not dead, etc etc. Series will be better off leaving behind hope vs despair
A Link to the Past
Banned
So DRV3, is it getting rid of hope vs. despair, or is it also getting rid of ultimate talents?
I cannot wait for them
To show Chisa dressed up as Junko and hanging out with Makoto
That's some good despair right there
I cannot wait for them
To show Chisa dressed up as Junko and hanging out with Makoto
That's some good despair right there
Watch Junko somehow end up in V3
Wow I really didn't care for this episode. At this point I'm watching Despair arc just to watch because it sure as hell isn't compelling with what it does with the lore and narrative.
Future arc is much better except for Makoto who hasn't done anything the whole show but feel bad for himself. V3 has class trials and supposedly disconnected from Hope's Peak Academy so it should be better but who knows.
Future arc is much better except for Makoto who hasn't done anything the whole show but feel bad for himself. V3 has class trials and supposedly disconnected from Hope's Peak Academy so it should be better but who knows.
The situations are so similiar. Even on the same fucking year. Why.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
I'm not feeling Junko in Despair much by this point either. It's abundantly clear that she's a character best used very sparingly. The last few episodes of Despair managed to actually make her boring, which I didn't think could be possible.
Only after this episode? I like the games, but the overarching plot has always been pretty damn dumb.
GoldandBlue
Member
Going by the artwork, I'm assuming V3 is set in the far off future or something.
Which will you give you plenty of reasons for Junko to return, like being cloned or she's a robot now.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
V3 is some prison set up. Hopefully it drops hope vs despair and ultimate high schoolers
'Junko' isn't supposed to be a character. She's a plot twist. In fact, Zero Escaoe 3 spoilers,
Junko is that Kickstarter project that sounds great until you read that the devs have zero experience and only a video of them talking into a camera.
its exactly the same as Q. Great plot twist (hey, I liked the Q twist, OK?), but once you actually start trying to justify why it all starts to fall apart a bit.
Junko is that Kickstarter project that sounds great until you read that the devs have zero experience and only a video of them talking into a camera.
Otaku Coder
Neo Member
The amount of times Junko went on about brainwashing the class makes me think we're heading for a swerve. What that'd look like I've no idea...
Preach it!
I like the characters in Dangan well enough but the further the series goes on you get the sense they lucked out with Nagito in creating a genuinely interesting character that pretty much elevates whatever scene he's involved in.
Id like that too but ehhh who knows. The ultimates thing is a really easy way to convey whatever gimmick a certain character has. And hope vs despair will probably just be substituted for some other similar binary forces.
Basically. When I played DR1 I honestly had a hard time believing people would willingly follow this person who is erratic as fuck. I thought they were trying to paint Junko as this DIO like character, who is incredibly charismatic and made the DR2 cast do what she wanted just by talking to them.
No, she basically just fleshbudded everyone
GoldandBlue
Member
The other problem with Despair Arc is it's not so much about Class 77 but the event surrounding them. They're kinda just there for the most part.
The Bankslammer
Member
awwww the dr2 kids didn't mean any harm uwu they were just trying to save their precious special teacher and accidentally enrolled in a brain acupuncture session
they're pure and good heroes after all
they're pure and good heroes after all
Some thoughts:
With that said, can't wait for the next episode!
I don't hate this anime or anything, and I'm glad we get to see the conclusion to this story, but I feel like it kind of ruined the series for me. The whole anime brainwashing thing is dumb and totally went against the whole set up DR2 had with Junko converting the kids into the Remnants of Despair. With the way Mikan was talking about her at the end of her trial, you'd think that Junko used other tactics to get people in line with her way of thinking, but no, it's just an anime and Junko never even talked to most of the Remnants of Despair (so far). That's disappointing as hell. Also, I'm glad Monaca is not the mastermind, but it makes UDG useless plot-wise and she serves no purpose for this series except to "help" Makoto and co. for a little in the beginning of Future.
Another thing I'm not a fan of is the whole blue face for irrelevant people thing they kept since UDG. It was cheap in that game and it looks cheap in the anime as well. I know they mask it as a stylistic choice but it takes me out of the world and makes the Danganronpa universe seem "fake." Kinda hard to explain but I can't stand it. Just compare the scene where Junko tortures that school member with the spoon (you actually see his face) to the scene in the latest episode where the random student kills himself, and that's with censoring too.
And finally, the whole hope vs. despair thing. At this point it just makes me cringe. Munakata's lines in Future, nearly all the things Junko says...it all sounds dumb when they're trying to be serious. Like someone else ITT said earlier, I hope V3 goes as far away from hope and despair as possible. It made sense with the first game's theme and slightly with the second, but now it's a dead horse and they're constantly bringing it up over and over again through dialogue.
Another thing I'm not a fan of is the whole blue face for irrelevant people thing they kept since UDG. It was cheap in that game and it looks cheap in the anime as well. I know they mask it as a stylistic choice but it takes me out of the world and makes the Danganronpa universe seem "fake." Kinda hard to explain but I can't stand it. Just compare the scene where Junko tortures that school member with the spoon (you actually see his face) to the scene in the latest episode where the random student kills himself, and that's with censoring too.
And finally, the whole hope vs. despair thing. At this point it just makes me cringe. Munakata's lines in Future, nearly all the things Junko says...it all sounds dumb when they're trying to be serious. Like someone else ITT said earlier, I hope V3 goes as far away from hope and despair as possible. It made sense with the first game's theme and slightly with the second, but now it's a dead horse and they're constantly bringing it up over and over again through dialogue.
With that said, can't wait for the next episode!
The Silver
Member
ugh, looking like the theory that the red screens brainwash the "killer" into committing suicide might come true as well.
what the heck happenned to personal responsibility, that's what makes these murders compelling,(besides Tsumiki now) instead everything just has to be about Junko Junko Junko........ It's really no one's fault, its cause Junko brainwashed everyone!
Should've just had Nagito take over as mastermind, he's far more entertaining.
what the heck happenned to personal responsibility, that's what makes these murders compelling,(besides Tsumiki now) instead everything just has to be about Junko Junko Junko........ It's really no one's fault, its cause Junko brainwashed everyone!
Should've just had Nagito take over as mastermind, he's far more entertaining.
At least Mahiru still covered for that murderer. At Peko and Fuyuhiko killed that girl. Thinking back now I'm kinda suprised they didn't say "Junko did that!" too.awwww the dr2 kids didn't mean any harm uwu they were just trying to save their precious special teacher and accidentally enrolled in a brain acupuncture session
they're pure and good heroes after all
Yeah I'm not very satisfied with how it's turning out. Brainwashing is probably the worst thing they could have done. Junko went from an amazingly charismatic, calculating and manipulative woman to "Here watch this video."
It's just so unsatisfying and I think I rather not have known this. Like yay more DR content but if this is what you are presenting then maybe you shouldn't have done this. Still curious how it all plays out since Chisa is looking like the mastermind in Future.
It's just so unsatisfying and I think I rather not have known this. Like yay more DR content but if this is what you are presenting then maybe you shouldn't have done this. Still curious how it all plays out since Chisa is looking like the mastermind in Future.
Trigonometrize.
Member
Seriously. Feels so far removed from having Sayaka wanting to kill the fuck out of Leon and everyone there.
Permanently A
Junior Member
DRIF mukuro: best girl
DR3 mukuro: i'd rather not talk about it
DR3 mukuro: i'd rather not talk about it
GoldandBlue
Member
GOD, I know what you mean.
Shouta
Member
First half of Despair 9 was good but the second half was a little ho-hum.
I really don't mind the brainwashing thing. It works to explain everything in one fell swoop instead of having to spend time explaining each character's fall. It'd be interesting to see each individual character but it's time consuming as heck which isn't suited for a short anime. It'd be long in the tooth if they stretched it longer too. That's not to mention the fact it'd basically be a show where you watch them become crazy murderers...
My real problem with Despair right now is that it's boring. There's stuff going on but there's no tension. There haven't been any real stakes up until the last episode or two but even then, it's so late in the run and it doesn't feel like anything has happened with the characters we're supposed to be following. Despite problems with Future, at least there's stuff actually happening.
Edit: Just a thought though, the video can explain why they'd listen to Junko's words more readily but it'd be interesting if this was only the first step to making them the Ultimate Despairs. 'cause Mikan isn't like the mugshots we've seen of them yet.
I really don't mind the brainwashing thing. It works to explain everything in one fell swoop instead of having to spend time explaining each character's fall. It'd be interesting to see each individual character but it's time consuming as heck which isn't suited for a short anime. It'd be long in the tooth if they stretched it longer too. That's not to mention the fact it'd basically be a show where you watch them become crazy murderers...
My real problem with Despair right now is that it's boring. There's stuff going on but there's no tension. There haven't been any real stakes up until the last episode or two but even then, it's so late in the run and it doesn't feel like anything has happened with the characters we're supposed to be following. Despite problems with Future, at least there's stuff actually happening.
Edit: Just a thought though, the video can explain why they'd listen to Junko's words more readily but it'd be interesting if this was only the first step to making them the Ultimate Despairs. 'cause Mikan isn't like the mugshots we've seen of them yet.
Seems they didn't have much of a story to tell. Much of both arc is pretty much padding then a shocking event then more padding. The brainwashing is weak but so was the "I erased your memories" and so was some student council members killing each others leading to the apocalypse and the end of the world.
There's way too many characters and the ones that are fleshed are really annoying and dumb. Junko and Munakata are insufferable. The hope vs despair rant was maybe interesting in the game the first time but it's pretty much the only thing these two say here. Izuru is pointless so far and so is Makoto. Izuru is supposed to be the most amazing person in the world and he does nothing excepting saying it's boring and dull.
I guess this episode confirms that
There's way too many characters and the ones that are fleshed are really annoying and dumb. Junko and Munakata are insufferable. The hope vs despair rant was maybe interesting in the game the first time but it's pretty much the only thing these two say here. Izuru is pointless so far and so is Makoto. Izuru is supposed to be the most amazing person in the world and he does nothing excepting saying it's boring and dull.
I guess this episode confirms that
Chisa is involved in the Future Foundation attack and isn't really dead.
The anime has effectively ruined Junko both as a character and as a concept.
Back in DR1, she was great as both a plot twist and a character. The idea that the true antagonist was legitimately as wacky as their avatar was hard to believe, but there she was. Not just that, but as a psychological enigma that displayed the very extreme side of both sadism and masochism. A fascinating take on sociopathy that I can't recall seeing anywhere else. DR2 only furthered that, making her show more signs of sociopathy with her implied master manipulation skills. I wouldn't feel bad about calling her my favorite villain ever at this point. Even UDG added to it with her AI showing actually displaying good manipulation skills, while also driving home how evil she is in her help in the plan to decapitate thousands of children.
Here, she's a shadow of what she's been built up into. No longer is she a psychological enigma, she's just bored with life because of a super power. She's a good planner, but far from a sociopath-level manipulator after utilizing the work of others and the absolutely abysmal policies of the academy. The only thing that I feel has positively furthered her character is partially showing her torture methods and just how detached she is from everything while doing it.
I'm ready to move on from Junko and get a new antagonist that hopefully won't be broken down in subsequent entries like she has. Just really disappointing and makes it clear Kodaka is not a skilled enough writer to make certain characters live up to their own hype.
Back in DR1, she was great as both a plot twist and a character. The idea that the true antagonist was legitimately as wacky as their avatar was hard to believe, but there she was. Not just that, but as a psychological enigma that displayed the very extreme side of both sadism and masochism. A fascinating take on sociopathy that I can't recall seeing anywhere else. DR2 only furthered that, making her show more signs of sociopathy with her implied master manipulation skills. I wouldn't feel bad about calling her my favorite villain ever at this point. Even UDG added to it with her AI showing actually displaying good manipulation skills, while also driving home how evil she is in her help in the plan to decapitate thousands of children.
Here, she's a shadow of what she's been built up into. No longer is she a psychological enigma, she's just bored with life because of a super power. She's a good planner, but far from a sociopath-level manipulator after utilizing the work of others and the absolutely abysmal policies of the academy. The only thing that I feel has positively furthered her character is partially showing her torture methods and just how detached she is from everything while doing it.
I'm ready to move on from Junko and get a new antagonist that hopefully won't be broken down in subsequent entries like she has. Just really disappointing and makes it clear Kodaka is not a skilled enough writer to make certain characters live up to their own hype.
The Silver
Member
So this note was in UDG and I'm just reading about it now....
http://danganronpa.wikia.com/wiki/B...he_Tragedy_Was_A_Future_Foundation_Conspiracy
The Tragedy Was A Future Foundation Conspiracy
Although Future Foundation's stated mission to help the world recover from "The Tragedy," our editorial department has received a tip that claims Future Foundation themselves caused the incident in the first place. To no one at this publication's surprise, the "true Ultimate Despair" is at the top of Future Foundation.
The true Ultimate Despair's grand ambition was to reduce the world to a state of total despair. By inventing an opponent, they significantly complicated the situation to further plunge the world into despair. This "opponent" is Future Foundation. That organization was intentionally built to be dysfunctional and try to comba the despair with increasingly drastic measures.
The reason why it took so long for the incident to settle down was because Future Foundation was protecting the "despair." There can be no other explanation. Consider this: the ones who developed the air purifier was not Future Foundation, but Towa Group.
Was I under a rock or did no one bring this up before today's Chisa reveal?
http://danganronpa.wikia.com/wiki/B...he_Tragedy_Was_A_Future_Foundation_Conspiracy
The Tragedy Was A Future Foundation Conspiracy
Although Future Foundation's stated mission to help the world recover from "The Tragedy," our editorial department has received a tip that claims Future Foundation themselves caused the incident in the first place. To no one at this publication's surprise, the "true Ultimate Despair" is at the top of Future Foundation.
The true Ultimate Despair's grand ambition was to reduce the world to a state of total despair. By inventing an opponent, they significantly complicated the situation to further plunge the world into despair. This "opponent" is Future Foundation. That organization was intentionally built to be dysfunctional and try to comba the despair with increasingly drastic measures.
The reason why it took so long for the incident to settle down was because Future Foundation was protecting the "despair." There can be no other explanation. Consider this: the ones who developed the air purifier was not Future Foundation, but Towa Group.
Was I under a rock or did no one bring this up before today's Chisa reveal?
awwww the dr2 kids didn't mean any harm uwu they were just trying to save their precious special teacher and accidentally enrolled in a brain acupuncture session
they're pure and good heroes after all
No kidding. It really ruins the main twist of DR2.
Anyway, I wonder if the reason Persona killed Juzo isn't because he either 1) Knew about Chisa getting brainwashed but he kept silent (Munakata would have killer her, I guess) 2) He thought Juzo had betrayed him the same way Chisa did.
Hence "despair made me do it".
Still not a fan of the brainwashing anime angle they're going for. Kamakura has been very boring to watch as well. It feels as if they still want the paint the DR2 cast as likable/innocent throughout this arc about their downfall so they're not making Izuru the monster we thought he was and making the DR2 crew not have any blame placed on them whatsoever for falling into despair in the first place. They're just kids trying to save their teacher who ended up being brainwashed by a video by big bad Junko.
Problem is that DR2 already made us like the cast despite all the evil stuff that was iplied that they did. So why they're pushing this "Izuru technically didn't kill anyone and the DR2 crew were just brainwashed all along" story is kinda lame. I'm still liking Future, but I"m falling off board with Despair pretty quickly. They have two episodes left to bring me back on board.
Only thing I can say is that I'm more invested in what Mitarai's role in Future is now due to this episode.
Problem is that DR2 already made us like the cast despite all the evil stuff that was iplied that they did. So why they're pushing this "Izuru technically didn't kill anyone and the DR2 crew were just brainwashed all along" story is kinda lame. I'm still liking Future, but I"m falling off board with Despair pretty quickly. They have two episodes left to bring me back on board.
Only thing I can say is that I'm more invested in what Mitarai's role in Future is now due to this episode.
Basileus777
Member
#13 is utterly ridiculous and would be an amazingly awful explanation.
blankempathy
Member
Not sure why people are put off by the brain washing theory. Lets be honest. Even if the class had been forced to participate in an event where they had to kill each other or one person its kind of hard to argue that they would all mentally snap and become evil. One or two people? Possibly? A handful of people? You're pushing it. There had to be some type of brain washing involved. And while the anime angle is kind of silly its mostly just a convenience device to make it happen quickly as opposed to actual brain washing practices.
Trigonometrize.
Member
I'm starting to think I'll have to pull the "not canon card" on Despair arc. The ambivalence the player feels toward the class in Danganronpa 2 when you realize they're actually complete monsters despite being totally likable kids just like the original class is so meaningful. But that was only because you naturally assumed they hadn't been forced into it by bullshit lame 30 second video. It's a fantastic idea for the Danganronpa world ruined.
The Bankslammer
Member
it's been pretty obvious how out of place the events of the twilight syndrome murder case have been relative to the portrayal of the involved DR2 characters in the anime
it's still crazy to me that they wouldn't capitalize on mahiru losing her best friend and fuyuhiko his little sister. it was genuinely like nothing had happened.
Permanently A
Junior Member
Oh shit. Chisa being 5th division leader (despair intel) makes perfect sense why they couldn't stop the despair in a timely manner. They were being sabotaged from the inside.
Still forming thoughts on the episode, but I don't have a problem with Junko. She's entertaining, and spoiler: As far as the Despair arc goes - SHE WINS. DR1 told us that.
mugurumakensei
Member
see, I don't mind the characterization of class 77 in the Despair arc. Their success and hopefulness in spite of their tragic pasts makes them very compelling hopes. it also makes them very compelling targets for Junko.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
They really slacked on it tbh.
Hajime - Like his DR2 self but not as well realized
Nagito - Fine. Pretty much the only one where they nailed it.
Chiaki - "Hinata-kun. Hinata-kun. Hinata-kun. Hinata-kun."
Everyone else - Have one line an episode to remind you of their gimmick tier
Of course Junko didn't... Mukuro did!
You see, Fuyusis was claiming to be the Ultimate Little Sister... Well, Mukuro heard through her intelligence about this was was all "That's bullshit, only Junko-chan is the Ultimate Little Sister!" and it was actually Mukuro who killed Natsumi, and Sato was framed!
Also, this ep was fucked.
- Status