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[RecRoulette]

So I'm guessing Yukizome and Juzo are remnants of despair aka the masterminds of Future? Would explain a lot.

Despair really fell off, true despair.

 

[The Silver]

They were forced to be part of a killing game , watch their classmates be executed , in a place they couldn't escape from ,forced to suspect each another multiple times and they even were being kept in a place without food for days and being devoured by hunger .. i disagree that they weren't under pressure.

that's what it made it all the more horrific, what did Junko do to these people that broke them? It was an extremely compelling backstory that got wasted.

That line of thinking was backed up by UDG, the real world was far more fucked up than than either of the killing games. The things the WoH did, forcing the adults to watch as they as they tortuted and killed their loved ones, driving them into a murderous frenzy. How Monaca almost broke Komaru into blowing off the heads of tons of brainwashed children. Monaca convincing the other kids to throw themseles off a building by making them feel like there's no other way.


The DR2 cast got through the game because they weren't isolated and what they had to deal with wasn't on the scale of the real world, Komaru withstood Monaca because she still had Toko with her.(and there was the point that Monaca was child's play compared Junko) For example you think someone like Nekomaru can't be broken? What if he was put in a situation by himself where he had to watch as his family gets brutally tortured and to stop it he had to brutally torture Akane or whatever?


Reminds of The Killing Joke, Joker wanted to prove all it took was one bad day to turn a good man into a monster. DR2 had it with Junko being the Joker and the rest of the cast being Gordons, and while it may have taken longer than a day, she succeeded, and that's what made her scary.

There's a million fucked up things Junko could've done but now we're here in DR3, Junko doesn't live up to the hype, and it's already been said a hundred times about how removing any and all personal repsonsibility from the DR2 cast screws with that games ending and makes them far less compelling characters.

 

[properpropaganda]

comparison of all 3 versions of despair's opening

i thought it was neat

 

[Red Frost]

That's another thing. Fucking MONACA is now canonically a better manipulator than Junko.

 

[blankempathy]

When I think of the brainwashing anime, what always comes to mind is during DR2's final trial, when Byakuya says something like "You guys were the ones who fell into despair". It really gives off the vibe that it was either fully or in part their fault, but I guess not anymore.

Honestly blaming people for things outside of their power wouldn't surprise me. He probably means they're weak for losing to despair.

 

[NickWright]

Actually, I think the "brainwash" approach fits Junko much better.

She probably would be too bored to start converting Remnants of Despair one by one so she went with the quickest process.

But yeah, it rubs me the wrong way when we actually have canon of certain characters driving other people to Despair through manipulation and charisma (Monaca). Heck, in the "bad ending" of UDG she even managed to turn Komaru into the new Ultimate Despair by making her responsible for the deaths of all children and adults in Towa City.

 

[Permanently A]

I really have to wonder why the fuck Izuru uploaded the Junko AI when he's STILL not interested in what's going on.

There has to be more to this than just brainwashing anime. There has to be something that convinces Izuru that Junko is worth keeping around.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

Honestly blaming people for things outside of their power wouldn't surprise me. He probably means they're weak for losing to despair.

I don't think Byakuya would blatantly lie about it being their fault, and even if he did, Makoto and Kyoko would surely qualify his statement. There's no reason to lead then to believe that if it was entirely brainwashing. They weren't even a particularly flawed group of people except Nagito.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

I dont know why you guys think Junko would stop at brainwashing. This was the person who kidnapped 15 family members and friends as a fucking backup plan.

 

[Hours Left]

Uncomfortable episode. The leering closeups of Chisa were unnecessary. Anyway, I don't think the fall of the DR2 class is going to be simply "they were brainwashed".

Despite some issues, I'm still really enjoying both series a lot.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Yeah, I think Despair arc is a total wash. The Dangan 2 cast is almost entirely irrelevant, and they even managed to find a way to exclude their relevance from the foundation of the whole thing (the fall to despair). At the same time, removing any sort of culpability or fault from the cast actually harms the percieved stakes and moral dilemmas from the ending to Danganronpa 2.

Future isn't great either, as it took us until the most recent episode to do danganronpa shit (investigations, confrontations, murders), but at least the thing has a central mystery that will keep me watching. I'm only going to keep watching Despair because despite everything, Junko is still an entertaining character, and watching her do horrific shit to other students is at least memorable.

 

[Debirudog]

I kinda really hate Junko at this point. And not love to hate like Dio, but just outright despise the character.

 

[RecRoulette]

I'm expecting Chisa to kill Chiaki, hell, I thought that's how the episode was ending.

Then again, there's been so much misdirection around Chiaki's death I'll be shocked if they actually do it like how I'm certain they won't leave Kyoko dead.

Edit: Remember that insane Future ending with everyone gearing up and the fleet pulling up to the island? Why show that so early just to ignore it for weeks

 

[Drkirby]

So, is it safe to say that line in the intro when Chisa is upside down, "It will break if you see" is basically them hinting at brain washing anime the entire time?

Also, this is minor, but anyone got an idea of why it changed from "Hello, Hope's Peak High School?" to just "Hello, Hope's Peak High School" in the intro? Why did the question mark get dropped?

 

[kuroneko0509]

Uncomfortable episode. The leering closeups of Chisa were unnecessary. Anyway, I don't think the fall of the DR2 class is going to be simply "they were brainwashed".

Despite some issues, I'm still really enjoying both series a lot.

considering the reactions of discomfort in here, I'd say it was necessary and garnered the reaction expected. what happened to chisa wasn't supposed to be comfortable to the viewer i imagine.

 

[NickWright]

So, is it safe to say that line in the intro when Chisa is upside down, "It will break if you see" is basically them hinting at brain washing anime the entire time?

Also, this is minor, but anyone got an idea of why it changed from "Hello, Hope's Peak High School?" to just "Hello, Hope's Peak High School" in the intro? Why did the question mark get dropped?

I think it's a reference to Junko calling HPHS as you would call someone on the phone "Hi, is this Mr. X?"

And it the question was dropped once the Steering Committee approved her admission and got in the 78th class.

 

[DrunkShogun]

I kinda really hate Junko at this point. And not love to hate like Dio, but just outright despise the character.

I know what you mean. Hating dio is enjoyable because he's so evil but junko is losing her charm. Think Nagito has been the star of the future arc. He's perfectly weird and on his own little adventure of hope and despair.

 

[T-Rex.]

This brainwashing nonsense is pretty much ruining DR2 for me. I'm just going to treat it as not being canon because it undermines a lot of the events that happen in DR2 and it pretty much absolves the students of any blame because hey they were brainwashed. It's a terrible plot device because it's just a lazy way of doing things. There are other, better ways to manipulate characters. I mean shit the games did everything they could to present Junko as being this charismatic force of nature and that coupled with the problems of the cast (Mikan's abuse, Mahiru's dad issues) made it entirely believable that someone like Junko was capable of influencing them; there was no need to go down this mind control route when the set-up was already there for something much better.

 

[Thoraxes]

I ain't jumping to any conclusion on how the Remnants become the Ultimate Despair till the last episode.

Kodaka likes them late series hail mary twists for there not to be one in the last episode.

Wait, so are Makoto and everyone at HPA yet? Aren't Junko and Mukuro in their class? Shouldn't it have been easy for them to find Junko? How does Jin not know about Junko when he locked everyone in, or did he not lock Junko and Mukuro in and they just short of snuck in?

Attendance isn't mandatory for a main course student.

 

[Hours Left]

considering the reactions of discomfort in here, I'd say it was necessary and garnered the reaction expected. what happened to chisa wasn't supposed to be comfortable to the viewer i imagine.

I know what they were going for, but there's probably a better way to convey the way the brainwashing was melding despair and pleasure other than an extreme closeup of her bustline.

I think the clenched legs shot accomplished that just fine.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Jin knowingly take the risk that they would do what they did because they had talent?

 

[Taruranto]

I can't accept things really played out this stupidly. Junko literally walks around proclaiming her evilness, multiple faculty members are aware of her evilness, students are aware yet no one one is doing a thing until the very last minute and to make matters worse they send one guy when she's walking around with a whole posse in the open.

I want to know how she managed to land a spot in DR1 bunker.

What was Jin Kirigiri smocking? It took Yu Narukami literally 10 seconds and a book to figure she was evil.

Honestly blaming people for things outside of their power wouldn't surprise me. He probably means they're weak for losing to despair.

If he's blaming them for that... then honestly he should blame everyone else too. How are the reserve students any worse?

Blaming kids because they weren't able to resist mind control seems kinda silly. Chisa is an adult with an incredible strong personality (They hammered us over and over how much she's devoted to Munakata) so it makes sense she had the will to resist that, but kids? Nah. They really aren't much different compared to everyone else. Heck, some characters like Celestia could be consider worse now.

 

[properpropaganda]

Attendance isn't mandatory for a main course student.

but we know they did attend at some point....

I want to know how she managed to land a spot in DR1 bunker.

What was Jin Kirigiri smocking? It took Yu Narukami literally 10 seconds and a book to figure she was evil.

its because Jin doesnt have a per-son-a.

who is ready for next weeks delay!!! good thing i have a rare work on a monday day

 

[The Silver]

I want to know how she managed to land a spot in DR1 bunker.

What was Jin Kirigiri smocking? It took Yu Narukami literally 10 seconds and a book to figure she was evil.



If he's blaming them for that... then honestly he should blame everyone else too. How are the reserve students any worse?

Blaming kids because they weren't able to resist mind control seems kinda silly. Chisa is an adult with an incredible strong personality (They hammered us over and over how much she's devoted to Munakata) so it makes sense she had the will to resist that, but kids? Nah. They really aren't much different compared to anyone else. Heck, some characters like Celestia could be consider worse.

well there's a reason Jin couldn't hack it in his detective family

 

[Nightbird]

I want to know how she managed to land a spot in DR1 bunker.

What was Jin Kirigiri smocking? It took Yu Narukami literally 10 seconds and a book to figure she was evil.

To be fair, he probably leveled his knowledge up to sage


I'd say he is max in Knowledge, Courage and Diligence, while he didn't even bother with Understanding and Expression.


Also, watching that episode yesterday lead to an embarrassing moment where I realized too late that I was watching the torture scene with Max volume and an open window.
My appartement is right above a small restaurant, and I only noticed near the end of the scene that the people sitting outside stopped talking.

Needless to say, I didn't went outside for the rest of the evening lol

 

[A Link to the Past]

Seriously though, am I just imagining that Jin had an understanding of Junko and Mukuro's true nature?

 

[ChrisD]

Also, watching that episode yesterday lead to an embarrassing moment where I realized too late that I was watching the torture scene with Max volume and an open window.
My appartement is right above a small restaurant, and I only noticed near the end of the scene that the people sitting outside stopped talking.

Needless to say, I didn't went outside for the rest of the evening lol

Oh man! I'd do the same. :lol

I always double-check my earphones before playing/watching anything Danganronpa. Always.

Spoiler

Mandatory green = sound GAF meme mention

 

[Ludger Kresnik]

Seriously though, am I just imagining that Jin had an understanding of Junko and Mukuro's true nature?

Maybe they'll just amnesia away his memories of them because there's no way he wouldn't know that Junko is absolutely not to be trusted. She's not exactly being subtle with her supervillainy.

 

[R_thanatos]

I want to know how she managed to land a spot in DR1 bunker.

What was Jin Kirigiri smocking? It took Yu Narukami literally 10 seconds and a book to figure she was evil.

Does Jin kirigiri have access to the same information as munakata ?
Munakata does have information from yukizome and the board was ( at the time ) actively trying to cover their tracks.

The big question now is .... why munakata didn't tell the rest of them about junko , since he knew This early .

 

[Goodstyle]

Where did Junko find the time to brainwash all these guys? Dumb question I know, but jeez, it must have been a very time consuming process.

 

[Sapientas]

Where did Junko find the time to brainwash all these guys? Dumb question I know, but jeez, it must have been a very time consuming process.

I think it's easier to brainwash Reserve Course students since they lack any self respect or whatever, so maybe they just need to watch the video. Junko puts everyone at a room and makes them watch it together.

 

[Maebe]

That's another thing. Fucking MONACA is now canonically a better manipulator than Junko.

She deserved a better role in future. Always found her more terrifying than Junko.

I really have to wonder why the fuck Izuru uploaded the Junko AI when he's STILL not interested in what's going on.

There has to be more to this than just brainwashing anime. There has to be something that convinces Izuru that Junko is worth keeping around.

Yeah I want to know this too. In chapter zero he said he wants to use "that person" as they used him in the past. So I guess he wanted to be entertained with a killing game from her in the simulation?

 

[ScherzoPrime]

I mean, the ship sailed on Despair being character focused after the Twilight Syndrome episode. Since then it's mainly been interested in the logistics of Junko's plot, even if that only raises further questions about how Junko accomplished anything (though OTOH, it was obvious from the get go there wouldn't be a particularly rational answer to that).

I mean, I could conceive of an alternate universe where the 12 episodes are focused on the class unraveling (with some help from Junko), with it ending at the beginning of the First Mutual Killing Game. Given the graceless execution of everything so far though, I think it's become clear that Despair mainly exists not as it's own narrative, but to give context and motivations to characters in Future. As another Gaffer said, the relevant bits could easily have been cut into flashbacks in a single future narrative, and you wouldn't really lose anything for it.

As for he boob shots... shrug. Danganronpa has always been super trashy, so it kinda comes with the territory to me.

 

[Burbeting]

I agree that it's pretty clear Despair side exists to give further context to future side, which is the star of the show for sure. The whole nagito-episode was there just to give more insight on Seiko and Ruruka.

 

[Sky Interloper]

Maybe they'll just amnesia away his memories of them because there's no way he wouldn't know that Junko is absolutely not to be trusted. She's not exactly being subtle with her supervillainy.

By the end of Zero he was pretty sure that Mukuro was involved with Despair and that there was a mastermind behind everything, but none of the evidence pointed to Junko. Even so, he let Despair foster because he was interested how that talent would develop.

The big question now is .... why munakata didn't tell the rest of them about junko , since he knew This early .

This is the big difference between Zero and DR3. Junko has been quite explicit with her antics, and that's making everyone else look like fools.

 

[Permanently A]

The boob shots were to show what mukuro was doing, kind of hard to tell otherwise. At first I thought they were gonna lobotomize her

 

[Luigi87]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but in DR0 is it implied that Matsuda lies and clears Junko of suspicion?

 

[A Link to the Past]

By the end of Zero he was pretty sure that Mukuro was involved with Despair and that there was a mastermind behind everything, but none of the evidence pointed to Junko. Even so, he let Despair foster because he was interested how that talent would develop.



This is the big difference between Zero and DR3. Junko has been quite explicit with her antics, and that's making everyone else look like fools.

Ah cool, thanks. I was sure that Jin had some shady stuff there.

I find Jin to be a pretty interesting character, because he's not a good person; we're meant to feel sympathy because he's Kyoko's father and was killed, but he is a huge part of the arc (well, the arc that I think is central to the series) of the end result of fascination with talent.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Jin's a fucking idiot no wonder Kyoko hates him. How this genius detective came from the loins of Jin is amazing

 

[dakkumauji]

Jin's a fucking idiot no wonder Kyoko hates him. How this genius detective came from the loins of Jin is amazing

talent skipped a generation of course

 

[RurouniZel]

If Danganronpa 3 has taught me anything, it's that anime was a mistake.

 

[King Gilga]

This show is retroactively making the 2 games worse for me.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

This show is retroactively making the 2 games worse for me.

Pretty much.



And don't see how Zero fits in this shit.

 

[Red Frost]

Attendance isn't mandatory for a main course student.

Wait a minute, didn't Zero say Junko's poor attendance record actually had her on the verge of failing (or some other consequences)? It's been a while.

 

[blankempathy]

I don't think Byakuya would blatantly lie about it being their fault, and even if he did, Makoto and Kyoko would surely qualify his statement. There's no reason to lead then to believe that if it was entirely brainwashing. They weren't even a particularly flawed group of people except Nagito.

I meant that he wouldn't actually mean it's their fault but it's his nature to be dickish and more or less be mocking them for being captured.

Anyways as far as the show goes I'm not sure why so many people are surprised. Did people expect Junko go around and single handedly convince everyone including the dr2 class to choose despair? Considering how she apparently hid she was a despair clearly wasn't going to happen. I do wish that she was in the shadows more as it clearly makes her look more obvious but at the same time we are supposed to see what she's doing since we are the viewer. The question I have is how did Munakata figure out that it was her? His eyes on campus didn't know and while we can assume he has connections we don't see them in play outside of juzo and chisa. Maybe I missed something but that seemed off to me. I also don't find it weird that he didn't tell anyone else about Junko. He's clearly the arrogant trust no one but himself to get stuff done type.

While the anime brainwashing thing is dumb I think it's dumb for a different reason. Mainly that it happens so fast. Brainwashing involving sounds and images is a thing and anime is just a series of images and sound so why couldn't it be used to brain wash someone? Obviously it would take more time then the one time the show implies but that's clearly for convenience otherwise we would have a substantial time skip. So I don't think the idea is dumb but the execution is lack. Although chisa having rods stuck around in her head helped sell the idea more. The ideas they're talking about are a very dark subject and while we see murder and such I also don't think they want to delve too much into the realm of torture. Because real brainwashing would likely involve such things and they're definitely not going to cross a certain line. So knowing that yes there has to be a suspension of disbelief. One person managed to overturn the world and get normal people to start killing each other while staying hidden. That idea alone is absurd. There obviously was going to be some brainwashing involved at some point.

The biggest problem with danganronpa is ultimately that Junko Enoshima being a despair was a secret. Had she been front and center as the poster child and leader of a faction hell bent on killing for fun and sending the world into despair we could actually see how she influenced the public and got people to follow her. But since she isn't public with her real persona and goals now the show has to come up with a convoluted explanation on how she managed to secretly recruit and create an army large enough to over throw the world and to do her bidding.

 

[HeroInGreen]

I guess we can give up on an explanation on why Nagito knew all he knew. He doesn't need them, he's that cool.

On the other hand, it seems so obvious now that Chisa is behind the game in Future that I think it's not going to happen.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

This show is retroactively making the 2 games worse for me.

Yeah. Anime was a mistake, to be fair, but the Despair Arc alone has killed any and all excitement I had for the new game. Though it should become appealing again once I've been brainwashed by Junko.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Yeah. Anime was a mistake, to be fair, but the Despair Arc alone has killed any and all excitement I had for the new game. Though it should become appealing again once I've been brainwashed by Junko.

I dunno why this would kill your excitement for V3. This is so we can wrap shit up and move on in V3. Hopefully.

 

[Debirudog]

V3 is a fresh new start. If DR3 isn't well received in Japan, maybe it would be a wake up call to Kodaka then.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Yeah. Anime was a mistake, to be fair, but the Despair Arc alone has killed any and all excitement I had for the new game. Though it should become appealing again once I've been brainwashed by Junko.

This anime has made me remember that the most interesting things about Danganronpa are killing games, murders and class trials, so I actually can't wait until the game releases. The writing seems to struggle when moving outside that format.