I agree with this guy.
The "method" can be seen as worse or less interesting (it is lol) than
Junko corrupting the DR2 cast one by one
there is also actual brainwashing by Junko shown too
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Danganronpa Beginner's Guide, Or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Despair
- Thread starter Ludger Kresnik
- Start date
The "method" can be seen as worse or less interesting (it is lol) than
Again:
It's not just about what she said. It's about how what she said lines up with what you are doing in the ending. The ending decision is about choosing between running away from your mistakes or taking responsibility for them. By saying that they were brainwashed with no agency then you aren't proving your strength by choosing the good decision. You are proving that you are in line with the status quo.
Imagination is stronger than realization.That and I believe the series lacked the planning to make it in one cohesive series.
I don't really have a lot of problems with the idea itself that they were brainwashed - all the reactions from the characters in DR2 highlights how they all have a moral compass enough to reject their atrocities, and with the arguable exception of Teruteru, every "kill" in the game was fueled through some form of deliberate coercion or misunderstanding - mainly because in DR2, Junko needed them to kill each other. Peko killed because she was an assassin who misunderstood her boss' motivations. Mikan killed because she reverted back to her brainwashed personality. Gundham killed because both he and Nekomaru, as the more strong-minded and caretaking individuals of the group, understood that one of them had to take the fall for the sake of everyone else. But beyond that they even introduce the concept of brainwashing/controlling with Hajime, so I can buy that Junko threw their brains into a blender in order for them to go full despair mode.
That said I think this highlights the inherent problem of Danganronpa that it always needs to be very wary of - the game is character driven, not story driven, and part of the reason it stays so compelling is because of there always being an ever so subtle thread of ambiguity to the situations they're put in. Monokuma's motives (mostly those in DR1 and only a few in DR2) are reflective of that; they're only slight pushes, a taste of things, yet there's no guarantee to a lot of it - and even when DR1 reveals that the world went to shit, their only trustworthy source of information can't comment on whether or not said "tragedy" was still ongoing, or how severe it got. We never get to see how bad it was outside the school walls for a reason, and in DR2, where it's implied by Makoto that things are "getting better" - whatever that entails because he too has a habit of waxing poetic and was desperate to get the DR2 cast on his side - we don't get a trustworthy account of what the remnants of despair did either. We can only trust that one way or another, they were complicit in Junko's actions.
This is why the side games or supplemental content never actually interested me that much because they go too much into detail of things that aren't too interesting to me about the game. The notion that DR takes place in a post-apocalyptic world is an inherently hard one to swallow, but it only works because we can't get a proper taste of that to verify it, and once we actually can verify that, the whole "killing game" part that is this series' trademark ends up feeling like a hollow footnote. The whole "despair" angle to me only really works in the sense of seeing characters pushed to hopeless limits, usually through convincing lies or half-baked truths. Because of that I don't find a lot of the lore to be as interesting as how the characters come to deal with those situations, and that's where DR3 lost me - it tries to answer questions that, for all we know, never needed answering, or couldn't be satisfactory because those questions were by design meant to manipulate, not satiate.
That said I think this highlights the inherent problem of Danganronpa that it always needs to be very wary of - the game is character driven, not story driven, and part of the reason it stays so compelling is because of there always being an ever so subtle thread of ambiguity to the situations they're put in. Monokuma's motives (mostly those in DR1 and only a few in DR2) are reflective of that; they're only slight pushes, a taste of things, yet there's no guarantee to a lot of it - and even when DR1 reveals that the world went to shit, their only trustworthy source of information can't comment on whether or not said "tragedy" was still ongoing, or how severe it got. We never get to see how bad it was outside the school walls for a reason, and in DR2, where it's implied by Makoto that things are "getting better" - whatever that entails because he too has a habit of waxing poetic and was desperate to get the DR2 cast on his side - we don't get a trustworthy account of what the remnants of despair did either. We can only trust that one way or another, they were complicit in Junko's actions.
This is why the side games or supplemental content never actually interested me that much because they go too much into detail of things that aren't too interesting to me about the game. The notion that DR takes place in a post-apocalyptic world is an inherently hard one to swallow, but it only works because we can't get a proper taste of that to verify it, and once we actually can verify that, the whole "killing game" part that is this series' trademark ends up feeling like a hollow footnote. The whole "despair" angle to me only really works in the sense of seeing characters pushed to hopeless limits, usually through convincing lies or half-baked truths. Because of that I don't find a lot of the lore to be as interesting as how the characters come to deal with those situations, and that's where DR3 lost me - it tries to answer questions that, for all we know, never needed answering, or couldn't be satisfactory because those questions were by design meant to manipulate, not satiate.
Novel Mike
Member
I agree completely. I still think they could have come up with a better answer then what they ultimately gave us but clearly that was never in the cards.
Gonna be real curious concerning how I feel about this series after V3. My perception of it is at an all-time low after Danganronpa 3. I wasn't too into elements of DR2's ending, either, but DR0 made me appreciate both games more.
There are just some decisions that bring things down a whole lot for me. Even mechanically, the mini-games are just stupid and unnecessary, and they always have been.
I find it baffling that there are fans of Danganronpa who tolerate and even like what Danganronpa 3 did. How could you appreciate DR2's ending, and then also appreciate DR3? It just reminds me that people definitely have significantly different viewpoints concerning what they seek from Danganronpa.
There are just some decisions that bring things down a whole lot for me. Even mechanically, the mini-games are just stupid and unnecessary, and they always have been.
I find it baffling that there are fans of Danganronpa who tolerate and even like what Danganronpa 3 did. How could you appreciate DR2's ending, and then also appreciate DR3? It just reminds me that people definitely have significantly different viewpoints concerning what they seek from Danganronpa.
I'd attribute most of that to Juzo. He's arguably the best thing to come out of DR3.
The problem isn't the fact that it's silly.
DR3's writing is absolute garbage.
You're the one forgetting that
"Brainwashing" in DR2 didn't refer to literal brainwash, made clear by the fact that Makoto outlined Junko's methods. Then there's the fact that Byakuya demands that they take responsibility for their actions, which is a major a aspect of the trial. See, the original game actually had theming and nuance, while the anime relies on dumpster tier plot explanations and asspulls.
Crazy Diamond
Member
All bases covered. Talks up DR1 and 2 and shuts down any potential desire for newcomers to engage in the side stories. Good stuff OP. How it should be. 👏
That anime has pretty much robbed me of any interest I had in Danganronpa, but my Hope is that V3 will pull me back in because my God I love those first two games. Playing the demo tonight.
That anime has pretty much robbed me of any interest I had in Danganronpa, but my Hope is that V3 will pull me back in because my God I love those first two games. Playing the demo tonight.
Linkstrikesback
Member
It's not arguable. He's practically the only good thing to come out of DR3.
UberTag
Member
The first half of the DR3 anime ride was an amazing trip. It would be dishonest to say otherwise. Especially when speculation was running rampant.
Yeah, it all eventually fell apart but the adrenaline rush up until that point was great.
Sinh_Magnus
Member
I can agree with this. I watched both series while they were airing and was fun to see almost everyone having a 180 with him.
I understand that you can have fun watching the anime, in fact I did had some fun with it. However I can't recommend it because there's a strong chance that the bad writing will sour your opinion on the franchise. It happened to me and had to watch a LP of both D1+2 this year to recover my interest in the series and V3.
CaptainLoveline
Member
So V3 has minimal references to the previous games?
2 and that anime really soured me on the series.
2 and that anime really soured me on the series.
Nightwing123
Member
Juzo was pretty cool
too bad that his #1 ally/crush was dumb.
I enjoyed Danganronpa 0. It gets a bit nuts at time, but it had far better world building and origin stories than DR:AE and DR3.
It's not even that DR3 was bad in the context of what it did to the series as a whole but, for the most part, it's just boring. Upping the absurdity/stupidity and running with it would have at least made it fun to sit through.
Makes me think of this DR3 scene (big spoilers for DR1 + DR2).
RumbleHumble
Banned
DR3 TRU ENDING
buddha0991
Member
live and die by the meme
The very ambigous ending of DR1 supports that idea
Which is why i'm very optimistic about V3
Sky Interloper
Member
Good idea for a thread. Looking for any kind of info on this particular series is just asking for spoilers at this point. V3 seems to be a breaking point for Danganronpa, as Kodaka comments post-mortem seem to imply that he is done with the franchise (at least as its main showrunner). I wonder how Spike Chunsoft will develop it from here, as V3 looks like it puts in place the tone for next years of its existence.
As for past entries, I would at least recommend reading DR0 aside from the mainline entries. Spoliers aside, it expands the lore from DR1, and explains several things that may look as coming from nowhere if one plays DR2 coming only from DR1. It's not necessary to enjoy the first two games, but I consider it an enjoyable read. I believe what makes it different from both DRAE and DR3 is that Zero relies on what I assume are Kodaka's fortes: character interactions and mystery development.
Both Another Episode and Danganronpa 3 fall back on the main story thread - which was spotty in the first place - and expose the faults in it, making for dull (nonsensical in the case of DR3) storylines. I hope V3 marks a return to form for Kodaka in this case.
As for past entries, I would at least recommend reading DR0 aside from the mainline entries. Spoliers aside, it expands the lore from DR1, and explains several things that may look as coming from nowhere if one plays DR2 coming only from DR1. It's not necessary to enjoy the first two games, but I consider it an enjoyable read. I believe what makes it different from both DRAE and DR3 is that Zero relies on what I assume are Kodaka's fortes: character interactions and mystery development.
Both Another Episode and Danganronpa 3 fall back on the main story thread - which was spotty in the first place - and expose the faults in it, making for dull (nonsensical in the case of DR3) storylines. I hope V3 marks a return to form for Kodaka in this case.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
No lies detected here.
It just makes me mad that
he was the correct way to handle Junko manipulating someone to be a "remnant of despair". And we have that right along side the incorrect way.
Tribes of Trusty
Member
You just convinced me to never watch DR 3. I loved DR and DR2 (DR2 is spectacular imho, far better than 1 in every way) but was a little tired of UDG DR which I never finished.
I hope V3 will be more of DR2 goodness. Plus it has Japanese VA and French text, that's pretty awesome
I remember playing the PSP fan translated version of the game and thinking "This could be the beginning of a great series"
I hope V3 will be more of DR2 goodness. Plus it has Japanese VA and French text, that's pretty awesome
French love their Battle Royale Japanese media
I remember playing the PSP fan translated version of the game and thinking "This could be the beginning of a great series"
Ludger Kresnik
Member
No, this is pretty much its own little thing. We know not what the future holds.
Star Orpheus
Member
Its been awhile but didn't school mode kind of give credence that she wasn't entirely terrible too or am I missrembering that.
I'll be honest the anime not following that characterization WAS one of my grievances with it. But I guess I'm just a sucker for
redemtion arcs.
Despite my feelings for UDG and 3, I liked 0, yeah. It doesn't feel as unnecessary, as the explanations/retcons it includes mostly just set up some stuff in 2 that's not really talked about much in the game.
I still love how one trial section in 2 has garbled white noise that arbitrarily has spoilers for it.
In lieu of Danganronpa 3, I recommend watching Danganwrestling, my totally
canon crossover video series between Danganronpa and the WWE.
https://youtu.be/1l57ECGnLFM
not
https://youtu.be/1l57ECGnLFM
From what I gather, DR3 seems to be to the series what Zero Time Dilemma was to Zero Escape in respect to not only being weak on its own merits, but making everything before it worse retroactively. I had already been thinking of skipping it as well as UDG, with this thread only reinforcing that decision.
Currently planning on 1-2 Reload and V3 only.
Currently planning on 1-2 Reload and V3 only.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
DR2 + DR Zero should give you all the info you need. You can still watch DR3 if you want, just be warned that it's real bad.
In lieu of Danganronpa 3, I recommend watching Danganwrestling, my totallycanon crossover video series between Danganronpa and the WWE.not
https://youtu.be/1l57ECGnLFM
Follow this man's advice. Ignore DR3 and accept Danganwrestling as your new cannon.
I followed the 4chan threads when V3 came out and everyone there more or less agreed that V3 was better than DR3. Even the people who hated V3's ending could agree that V3 was entertainingly bad instead of DR3's plain old bad.
I'd also like to add that I thought the anime and UDG were quite some fun.
Okay the anime wasn't really necessary, but the ride was cool.
UDG is a goodgame and it being a shooter was a nice change in pace. Yes, there are some pretty weird scenes in it, but it just reinforces how fucked up the DR world has become.
Okay the anime wasn't really necessary, but the ride was cool.
UDG is a goodgame and it being a shooter was a nice change in pace. Yes, there are some pretty weird scenes in it, but it just reinforces how fucked up the DR world has become.
Agreed, which is why the anime couldn't be as good as what i imagined.
But i always saw this show without investing myself too much and actually had a great time ! I loved how the show was using his unique way to broadcast its episode (Hope => Despair => Hope => Despair) to show some characters past at the right moment.
It was quite a good idea and something unique too. Just for that i'm happy with this show. The whole process of "despair" isn't... ""Illogical"" but... Well... It's far too far fetched.
hypnotism too strong, plz nerf
oh come on EVERYBODY is alive ?
To be honest, most of the disappointement i have was near the end and since the beginning i knew i would have them so... I didn't cared too much and most of the show was quite strong and again, the way it was broadcast and how it influenced the story was interesting enough to me... But yeah, if you want me to say everything wrong with the anime, it's not a very hard thing to do...
RumbleHumble
Banned
Sinh_Magnus
Member
No, I bet that you can get even more soured.
Really, if you want go for It, just be prepared because it can go either way.
R_thanatos
Member
As a danganronpa fan since the first game was fan translated ( bought all the NISA releases because it was so great )
I kinda disagree with the OP
First danganronpa Zero not being very good is something i'll have to disagree. It is without a doubt the BEST way to understand a key character in the franchise down to the thought process of that character tying to the motivations of several other characters. It is , imo a must read if you want more. It also completely explain several key design choices for the franchise that were lost to me without this entry.
Optionnal ( yes ) but recommanded if you have the time.
UDG is also optionnal and yes i'll agree that the overall quality is not up to the first 2 games but it still manages to clear all the checkboxes that make it intresting despite the shortcomings. While the gameplay can become DULL , the story is great.
The end of hopepeak can be disapointing but i've learned to accept it. With a franchise with SO MUCH misdirections having some truth hurts , especially if that truth is not what i expected. But that is also danganronpa and in that sense the anime doesn't explain much while still showing another side of the franchise. And that is Crucial.
People that can't accept the answer the anime gave are, imo too tied to the excellent second game . For me it's a suitable answer and it had great episodes
My advice : play them all .watch them all. and make your own opinion. Skipping entires in this franchise is a complete mistake
I kinda disagree with the OP
First danganronpa Zero not being very good is something i'll have to disagree. It is without a doubt the BEST way to understand a key character in the franchise down to the thought process of that character tying to the motivations of several other characters. It is , imo a must read if you want more. It also completely explain several key design choices for the franchise that were lost to me without this entry.
Optionnal ( yes ) but recommanded if you have the time.
UDG is also optionnal and yes i'll agree that the overall quality is not up to the first 2 games but it still manages to clear all the checkboxes that make it intresting despite the shortcomings. While the gameplay can become DULL , the story is great.
The end of hopepeak can be disapointing but i've learned to accept it. With a franchise with SO MUCH misdirections having some truth hurts , especially if that truth is not what i expected. But that is also danganronpa and in that sense the anime doesn't explain much while still showing another side of the franchise. And that is Crucial.
People that can't accept the answer the anime gave are, imo too tied to the excellent second game . For me it's a suitable answer and it had great episodes
My advice : play them all .watch them all. and make your own opinion. Skipping entires in this franchise is a complete mistake
Sinh_Magnus
Member
Haha, I wonder where V3 will end up in that picture.
I screwed up a couple of months ago and clicked a tiny spoiler tag in some thread and got spoiled on what I think is a pretty significant detail, but I'm still interested in seeing where that game goes.