All of Ty's info appears to come from Pau, so even if he's Despair he couldn't lie about what she's seen without her correcting him (and she hasn't). Therefore if you buy into this theory: either Pau is Despair or they both are.
Killing Ty4on first boggles my mind, and as usual no one explains themselves so I can't see where they (or I) could have gone wrong.
Because an argument can be made against you and Ty4on, not-so-much for Pau.
I'm not voting for you solely based on Fight Club movement ( or the lack thereof ), I'm voting for you because of a combination of that plus your 'role claim' and answer.
I can argue against Ty4on because he has been on the sidelines and doesn't take much stances and, as said above, a lot of his stuff could be things he lied about or assumed by on his Role PM.
Pau can also have an argument against her because of being 'quiet' and due to the possibility she changes into the 'Kalor' persona at Night which would explain why people generally see both of them. However, I'm less convinced on her because of her reactions and responses to being outed by AB, her defense following that incident, and her actions since then, all of which point to her as Hope.
Are we going to wait three days with all of us bearly posting until two hours before the end of the day phase and rush kill someone?
Or are we just going to vote and move forward with what we have?
I'm all for waiting, but only if we think it will get us more information and not just make everything go crazy (I.e. What has happened every single end of day except for when we killed czartim)
Three power roles just claimed. We have the information we need and I'm down to end this after making a plan for next few days. I want contingency plans. If *Splinter is Despair, I guess Sawneeks is cleared. If *Splinter is Hope, do we go after Pau/Ty?
All of Ty's info appears to come from Pau, so even if he's Despair he couldn't lie about what she's seen without her correcting him (and she hasn't). Therefore if you buy into this theory: either Pau is Despair or they both are.
Killing Ty4on first boggles my mind, and as usual no one explains themselves so I can't see where they (or I) could have gone wrong.
The thing is that if one of them is "Kalor" it most likely is Ty4on. But you have a point... The only scenario I can construct where Ty4on is Despair and Pau isn't is some kind of suicide pact between those two, so Pau has to keep a (to her) known Despair member alive.
I've explained myself tons of times. Ty is the one who started the whole lovers nonsense. He is the one who role and alignment claimed Pau. If Ty is Hope, why the fuuuck would he lie about knowing her alignment? So if Ty flipped Hope, we'd know not to lynch Pau.
If he flips Despair, I figured there's a chance Pau would be Hope. But I'd assume Despair.
If Pau is an "Evil Lover", Ty would believe her to be Hope.
If both are Despair then it doesn't matter as the whole thing is a lie.
I've realised I was wrong though, it is still possible for Ty to be the evil one. This relies on Pau having enough information to narrow it down to Ty and myself, and Ty deciding to use Pau's alignment and info to push a vote on me. This makes no sense to me as he'd be setting himself up for the vote after mine, essentially trading 1 Hope for 1 Despair.
Newsflash: I will be lynched today, at that point my role will be revealed and your "most likely" goes out the window. You are arguing for something that is already going to happen and it's boring. The only possible benefit to this is to set up a chain lynch on Pau or Ty4on.
If it's not you, me, nor Ty4on, who else do you think it can be? Being forced to go to a room to change doesn't make sense, as you said. So you think they are forced to go to a room/facility anyways?
Three power roles just claimed. We have the information we need and I'm down to end this after making a plan for next few days. I want contingency plans. If *Splinter is Despair, I guess Sawneeks is cleared. If *Splinter is Hope, do we go after Pau/Ty?
If *Splinter is Hope Sawneeks is also cleared. We would go after Ty4on OR Pau (or maybe Swamped if someone can convince me of this changing room theory). If that person flips Hope too, we may already have less people than Despair.
Actual reason: Balance. We have 2 bulletproof and a shit load of watchers, most of whom are apparently hard to kill. Making the Mimic's path less predictable gives Despair more opportunity to hide. Otherwise this whole game becomes a case of waiting for the map to reveal who to vote for (as has been demonstrated: first Kalor, then me, then (at this rate) Ty4on)
If *Splinter is Hope Sawneeks is also cleared. We would go after Ty4on OR Pau (or maybe Swamped if someone can convince me of this changing room theory). If that person flips Hope too, we may already have less people than Despair.
Actual reason: Balance. We have 2 bulletproof and a shit load of watchers, most of whom are apparently hard to kill. Making the Mimic's path less predictable gives Despair more opportunity to hide. Otherwise this whole game becomes a case of waiting for the map to reveal who to vote for (as has been demonstrated: first Kalor, then me, then (at this rate) Ty4on)
Also if weapon 'flavor' was a thing we would have seen it in CzarTim's role PM as he would have been forced to get one. I don't believe it exists.
And Kalor's death gave us a good amount of info. It confirmed a mimic, allowing us to act accordingly. We are now moving on to the next part, lynch you/Ty4on, get info from that, and then move on. Set up a chain as a possibility is a good idea but should never be set in stone.
Fair, but Corn is suggesting keeping me alive purely to watch the pool on odd night and verify that Sawneeks continues visiting. It doesn't make sense.
The odds alone of both me and Saw being Hope AND both surviving N6+N7...
Plus it might nerf me if Despair know where I am watching every odd night
That's not what I've been saying. If he flips hope he didn't lie and therefore Sawneeks indeed went swimming N1 and N5. That's enough for me to believe her roleclaim.
If it's a balancing thing, it has been added to the Mimic to make them harder to track. If you forced all Despair to use it they'd actually be further disadvantaged as they just have longer routes = more likely to be seen.
So yes I'm predicting it's on the mimic only. Flavour suggestion could still be wrong, I don't know
This argument is literally going to go in circles about what made sense and what didn't and isn't going to go anywhere. I'm keeping my vote on Splinter not only because of this exchange but also because of the possible location of said mimic.
If Splinter flips Hope then Ty4on is the mimic as literally no one has seen him move even though he has a role.
To be honest, I had interpreted it the way you did, Sawneeks. If indeed the query was addressing the obscurity of the facilities, the question should have been phrased as in: "Would you like me to confirm where did you go on all nights?" or even "... at any given night?" instead of: "Would you like me to confirm where did you go (specifically) on Night 1 and Night 5?"
The inherent specifications gave raise to the assumptions of differing answer values.
Furthermore, I agree that "false-Kalor" is likely to be *Splinter based on the fact that Pau has sighted "false-Kalor" consistently. Logistically, this would suggest strongly that *Splinter is the mimic in play.
Fair, but Corn is suggesting keeping me alive purely to watch the pool on odd night and verify that Sawneeks continues visiting. It doesn't make sense.
The odds alone of both me and Saw being Hope AND both surviving N6+N7...
Plus it might nerf me if Despair know where I am watching every odd night
That's not what I've been saying. If he flips hope he didn't lie and therefore Sawneeks indeed went swimming N1 and N5. That's enough for me to believe her roleclaim.
Not sure, but we can rule out Fight Club and anyone AB investigated (since the role title would probably be obvious, and the mimic idea came out before end of D5).
Rough guess: Rest or Chris.
Not many options really.
Today is giving me a pretty good idea of potential scum team, will share closer to the end.
Not sure, but we can rule out Fight Club and anyone AB investigated (since the role title would probably be obvious, and the mimic idea came out before end of D5).
Rough guess: Rest or Chris.
Not many options really.
Today is giving me a pretty good idea of potential scum team, will share closer to the end.
If it's a balancing thing, it has been added to the Mimic to make them harder to track. If you forced all Despair to use it they'd actually be further disadvantaged as they just have longer routes = more likely to be seen.
So yes I'm predicting it's on the mimic only. Flavour suggestion could still be wrong, I don't know
I don't find it hard to believe that a Mimic in a Mafia game could have a specif action where the person had to go outside their own room to put on their disguise. It would make sense but, like I detailed above, we have no evidence that this is the case unless the Mimic ends up being Pau. Which I don't necessarily believe.
To be honest, I had interpreted it the way you did, Sawneeks. If indeed the query was addressing the obscurity of the facilities, the question should have been phrased as in: "Would you like me to confirm where did you go on all nights?" or even "... at any given night?" instead of: "Would you like me to confirm where did you go (specifically) on Night 1 and Night 5?"
The inherent specifications gave raise to the assumptions of differing answer values.
Furthermore, I agree that "false-Kalor" is likely to be *Splinter based on the fact that Pau has sighted "false-Kalor" consistently. Logistically, this would suggest strongly that *Splinter is the mimic in play.
Yeah, it's why I dropped it early on. We would have continued that line of argument for a while and it wouldn't have gotten us anywhere. A bunch of 'he says, she says' that is impossible to argue with facts.
Curious to know your thoughts on Makai/KingKitty though. It happened early today and is being obscured by everything else but it is something we shouldn't let slide away.
Not sure, but we can rule out Fight Club and anyone AB investigated (since the role title would probably be obvious, and the mimic idea came out before end of D5).
Rough guess: Rest or Chris.
Not many options really.
Today is giving me a pretty good idea of potential scum team, will share closer to the end.
My current vote is on Ty4on. The safest route is via 'Splinter but I don't think it's the best one.
I have a faint gut-feeling I'm falling for something here, but on that *Splinter <-> Sawneeks interaction I completely have to take *Splinters side. I do believe he knew where Sawneeks went in at least two nights, the whole gambit would be very risky if he didn't. Awkwardly that also clears Sawneeks, the only other serious contestant for "Kalor" at this point.
Random thought: If *Spliner is "Kalor" it's possible that another Despair member is the Hacker.
To be honest, I had interpreted it the way you did, Sawneeks. If indeed the query was addressing the obscurity of the facilities, the question should have been phrased as in: "Would you like me to confirm where did you go on all nights?" or even "... at any given night?" instead of: "Would you like me to confirm where did you go (specifically) on Night 1 and Night 5?"
The inherent specifications gave raise to the assumptions of differing answer values.
Furthermore, I agree that "false-Kalor" is likely to be *Splinter based on the fact that Pau has sighted "false-Kalor" consistently. Logistically, this would suggest strongly that *Splinter is the mimic in play.
1) Sawneeks asked me NOT to reveal which facility(s) I had seen her in.
2) The answer to her question was "P"
3) This answer betrays the request in part 1.
Not sure, but we can rule out Fight Club and anyone AB investigated (since the role title would probably be obvious, and the mimic idea came out before end of D5).
Rough guess: Rest or Chris.
Not many options really.
Today is giving me a pretty good idea of potential scum team, will share closer to the end.
Day 5: "Kalor" headed to AB's room. Sawneeks did not see him. That means Swamped is "Kalor" (Zipped cleared by AB, I am Hope, CB and Kingkitty very likely Hope, other people are dead)
My current vote is on Ty4on. The safest route is via 'Splinter but I don't think it's the best one.
I have a faint gut-feeling I'm falling for something here, but on that *Splinter <-> Sawneeks interaction I completely have to take *Splinters side. I do believe he knew where Sawneeks went in at least two nights, the whole gambit would be very risky if he didn't. Awkwardly that also clears Sawneeks, the only other serious contestant for "Kalor" at this point.
Random thought: If *Spliner is "Kalor" it's possible that another Despair member is the Hacker.
I could believe that. Despair having a 'watcher' role for the 4 main facilities would make sense and it would give them an advantage on knowing which facility to target.
Mostly gut feeling. Rest has been suuper quiet since D1, and the way (and reasons) he joined my Zipped vote (and some of his other votes) were huge red flags to me.
Barry/Chris I have spoken about a few times before, you'll have to forgive me for not digging up the previous conversation, but it was very soon after Chris joined (D4?)
Aside: I'm not sure my flip clears Saw. I can confirm she was in the pool room D1 & 5, that clears her from being the killer only.
Mostly gut feeling. Rest has been suuper quiet since D1, and the way (and reasons) he joined my Zipped vote (and some of his other votes) were huge red flags to me.
Barry/Chris I have spoken about a few times before, you'll have to forgive me for not digging up the previous conversation, but it was very soon after Chris joined (D4?)
Aside: I'm not sure my flip clears Saw. I can confirm she was in the pool room D1 & 5, that clears her from being the killer only.
What about the movement information we have from myself, Pau, and AB? Surely that has to count for something. If you don't believe me then you can, at the very least, use what Pau/AB has said.
It just feels like you're throwing out the Fight Club stuff for no reason.
Honestly, I had been warming to the idea that Sawneek's is intentionally misleading us, so I discounted it.
Now I think that was more due to frustration than genuine suspicion, leaves us with Swamped, Royal_Flush or CornBurrito. I *still* think Corn is more Hope than not, but I have less strong opinions on you and Swamped.
...Actually, did Swamped even post today? Where the hell is she?
Sawneeks I think I answered your question right after you posted it. Had discounted your bit, revised estimate posted. Doesn't really change my opinion on the people I mentioned first time.
I guess with my change in heart I might as well explain what I had been thinking.
Sawneeks was pushing an idea and discounting alternatives unfairly, rubbed me the wrong way, was gaining suspicion. Some others appeared to be nudging this narrative along. Most prominently Royal_Flush, and I started to think the two of them were working together.
Scum team would be something like:
CzarTim
Sawneeks
Royal_Flush
Rest
Christina
I'm less certain, and tired to be honest.
I'll be busy tomorrow, will check in when I can, hope that the day doesn't end without me. G'night.
Personally regardless of how *Splinter flips I sincerely believe Sawneeks might be Despair. But I may just be bitter about how her request made it impossible to actually test *Splinter's claim without lynching him.
Sawneeks was pushing an idea and discounting alternatives unfairly, rubbed me the wrong way, was gaining suspicion. Some others appeared to be nudging this narrative along. Most prominently Royal_Flush, and I started to think the two of them were working together.
I had the impression I discuss every possible method, no matter who brought it up. As long as I don't have a logical definite proof that someone is Despair, I will think their theories through and if I don't find any holes I will further develop them. I did this with your room theory and about every other theory I encountered. Sometimes I say I don't think that's what actually happened but I don't rule it out.
Personally regardless of how *Splinter flips I sincerely believe Sawneeks might be Despair. But I may just be bitter about how her request made it impossible to actually test *Splinter's claim without lynching him.
I'm not going to go over the argument again but I gave him a question, received an answer that contradicts my role, and went from there. If he had responded with the correct answer I would have left that trail and gone elsewhere because his claim would have been legit.
If you still believe I'm Despair even after Splinter flips, fine. We can argue that when it comes up.
I'm not going to go over the argument again but I gave him a question, received an answer that contradicts my role, and went from there. If he had responded with the correct answer I would have left that trail and gone elsewhere because his claim would have been legit.
If you still believe I'm Despair even after Splinter flips, fine. We can argue that when it comes up.
Thing is that I don't think you got an answer that contradicted your role.
You received a non-answer because your question was unanswerable. "Without giving the room away, give me the first letter of where you saw me" cannot be answered. Because giving the first letter would give the room away. *Splinter was confused, asked for clarification, and then you decided that meant he was Despair and decided to role claim completely, making it impossible to test him in an actually legitimate way.
If he flips Despair, fine. But if he flips Hope, I really hope that you'll at least consider where you went wrong.
[...]
If Pau had gone to her right (the left side of the map past Vivioggi), I'm not sure I would have bumped into her, since I came out and went to MY right. So I operated under the assumption she went the same way I did.
[...}
He knew that due to their location AB and Pau could not avoid seeing each other. This makes his gambit an even bigger risk as he would put another Despair into the spotlight.
[...]
Anyway Czar,
VOTE: CzarTim
Why did you role claim? AB wasn't under any big pressure from hope (at least as I could see) and it would immediately make you and AB more likely targets by Despair. AB revealed Pau, but it could have been much worse if more people had chimed in. I'm pretty sure it's quite common for more people to chime in when you say what your power role has revealed and explain a game mechanic.
Why did I bus him AND then later later reveal the link between me and Pau? CzarTim had zero votes at the time and people were eating the ninja nonsense. Even if Pau had been a super important Despair role she was not in any big danger back then (I roleclaimed to shift focus towards Czar and AB and wanted to do it early enough that Hope could process the new info, it also explained why Pau couldn't tell Hope where she went) and we had several ways of getting out of it with no Despair players revealed.
I'm pretty sure Crab did. AbsolutBro I think said he did too. I think he said he saw Kalor and Sawneeks on alternating nights, so if Crab saw Sawneeks on a night that AbsolutBro saw Kalor, Sawneeks isn't the mimic.
No she wouldn't. I'm not saying that is what happened, but it does make sense:
She claimed D3. Conveniently everyone she "saw" on N1 already was dead by then. We know that CzarTim carried out the N1-kill, so the Mimic didn't move N1. None of the people she "saw" can confirm that they saw her. The whole N1 movement could be made up.
She moved N2, saw AB, moved N3 and didn't see AB. She then knows, that AB did not move by her room and she can safely claim she moved on N3 as herself. All the other she claimed to not move, because in her "Kalor"-disguise she saw AB-
Sawneeks brought up seeing Crab, Crab didn't question, deny or counter it. I think they saw each other.
Now, I know Crab was tight lipped about Fight Club, but I don't recall him ever so much as mentioning Kalor (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not much of a thread digger.) I think if he'd seen him, he would have been investigating him and encouraging us to look at his posts more. I do think he saw Sawneeks though, and am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt for now. That makes *Splinter the only option as the mimic, because Ty4on is also accounted for with Pau.
Today is Day 6. You do not help us by keeping quiet about whatever every-other night power you have. Power roles need to clue us in 100% on what's going on. No more of this <redacted> nonsense. It made sense for power roles to be coy early on, but it is now the late game and you are hampering our deduction by being vague. You are either Despair or marked for death and you need to tell us everything. Name. Ability. Every action taken. Every person seen in the hallways. Hey, I'll go first so you know what I want:
This idea is anti town and feels very scummy to me. Your claim to not be night kill prone is perfectly convenient to get people's hopes up, but as far as I can tell, from a game design standpoint would be very unbalanced. If that's not dubious enough, you claim we have two people that can't be night killed. That's insane.
[Launch, are in possession of all of your mental faculties? Please go to a doctor and let us know what they say, so that we know if it's reasonable that you made a crazily unbalanced game. Thx, xoxoxo <3]
We need to keep as much information about power roles secret as we can, so that Despair can't strategize about who to kill.
On Night 2 he went to investigate Terrabyte20xx meaning he would have passed by Splinter, Pau, and Ty4on on his way there. However, he only mentioned seeing Pau, SalvaPot, and redacted ("kalor") that night and it leads me to wonder if maybe Splinter isn't the mimic but Ty4on is. Has anyone other than Pau even seen him move?
Hmm... Now that you mention it, I don't think anyone has said they've seen Ty4on at night. I think I'd just assumed that they must have.
So, if Ty4on and Pau do see each other, what do they do? Does Ty4on have secret passage ways he can use?
My plan right now would be:
1) Lynch *Splinter
2a) If *Splinter flips Mimic, proceed with playing mafia (lynch Rest?)
2b) If *Splinter flips Hope and Ty4on gets killed tonight, proceed playing Mafia (lynch Rest?)
2c) If *Splinter flips Hope and somebody else gets killed tonight (especially if that person is Sawneeks), lynch Ty4on
