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[flatearthpandas]

I'm willing to bet on WIFOM.

Burb was the most active town player. And perhaps he was feared.

We might be best off focusing on our efforts on players that were trying to lynch Burb.

Lol

I'm not against digging into the Burb death even if we can't verify, but how are you measuring active here? Three people had more posts, one was just about even, and Burb was gone for the second half of the day phase.

I thought only two had more posts?

Uh...

To be honest, I saw this post thought Burb was most active.

So uh... who were the other two most active?

 

[CornBurrito]

Lol




Uh...


So uh... who were the other two most active?

That was me backpedaling initially and not wanting to admit my mistake.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

DAY 2 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

Sawneeks (1)
flatearthpandas 566 622
flatearthpandas 633

CornBurrito (1)
hey_monkey 698

isaacnukem (1)
Sawneeks 674

No Lynch (1)
oreomunsta 614
flatearthpandas 622 633
hey_monkey 683 698

nin1000 (1)
StanleyPalmtree 635

rac (1)
Lord of Castamere 554

No active vote for Day 2: Christina Mackenzie, CornBurrito, isaacnukem, kitsunelaine, Muffin1611, nin1000, rac, Trigger, Verelios

Day 2 Postcount: Christina Mackenzie 4, CornBurrito 5, flatearthpandas 15, hey_monkey 36, isaacnukem 1, kitsunelaine 8, Lord of Castamere 10, Muffin1611 13, nin1000 9, oreomunsta 16, rac 3, Sawneeks 14, StanleyPalmtree 5, Trigger 11, Verelios 10


Day 2 ends:

8 votes for majority

 

[Trigger]

So...what I'm getting here if I understand you correctly is that you have some reasons for suspicion and are therefore interested in pursuing them. Reasons. Like, you don't have any of your own, but wouldn't mind piggybacking on a lynch. If you have reasons for doubt, I'm willing to hear them.

I'm not above being lynched, I'm lynched every other game, that's not the problem. No one should be absolved from guilt until their alliance is known. My problem is when people, like you're doing now, throw shit at me for the general reasoning of because 'I felt like it'. That's not suspicion. That's illogical hearsay. That's busywork.

What exactly did I "throw" at you? Like I'm looking back at my posts and trying to understand what warrants this kind of aggressive response. Sawneeks asked what I thought of her post, I suggested that you and Muffin could be worth looking into. I'm not exactly campaigning for your lynch. I haven't even voted yet. Illogical hearsay is pretty dramatic.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

hell yeah we should be lynching. pressure is a valuable tool to help figure people out, and without an actual lynch happening there isnt any real pressure.

also no lynch's are just boring.



how dare you!

Just to be clear, we definitely lynch today. Once someone figures out how to math, we can make a better choice about even days. I can't math ever.


Honeymoon's over, I guess.

Oh.

Vote: StanleyPalmtree

Why so bloodthirsty? Lynch every day seems to me to leave town with the least amount of sure info. What's the flip side?

bloodthirsty?
...sure

the flipside is as i said in my post, presure on scum is maintained by people continuing to hunt for scum to lynch. if we all agree to no lynch scum can chill really easy.

also lets not forget lynching scum isnt only about the info, theres also the whole killing scum part, its a tad important.

BTW This was what I was talking about earlier, interesting the collision that Fep jumped to, and that there's multiple.

Fep says that we should lynch today, but wait for more info on even days, almost immediately jumps on Stan for waiting to lynch. It feels forced when read in succession. Then he bumps you back later...

Doubling down on CornBurrito.

Best excuse for his anti-town bs is he doesn't know the rules, despite being a vet. And have since only seen one reasonable excuse for carrying in business as usual, from sawneeks, who also admitted that she miscounted.

Seriously, people not taking mechanics seriously. This game is stacked against town. On the contrary to fireblend and monkey, i am scumreading everyone not carefully considering town's best interests mechanics wise. Especially d1. We don't need these people. Kill them.

im actually quite liking nin's play, it nails the right abrasive tone that can ge a rise out of players, the kind of rise that can be very telling when contrasted against their calmer and more guarded posts.



now this i cant agree with, lynching people over mechanic misunderstandings is excessive and has very little chance of actually leading to scum, not to mention making thier hiding way easier.



yes, welcome to mafia, aint it grand?

You mean in that scum actually has to kill everyone instead of just get majority? Looking forward to your conclusions.

Maybe I'm trying to see something that isn't there, but the way that all plays out is throwing up warning bells.

 

[Verelios]

What exactly did I "throw" at you? Like I'm looking back at my posts and trying to understand what warrants this kind of aggressive response. Sawneeks asked what I thought of her post, I suggested that you and Muffin could be worth looking into. I'm not exactly campaigning for your lynch. I haven't even voted yet. Illogical hearsay is pretty dramatic.

It wasn"t my intention to be aggressive, if you saw it like that then sorry, my bad. Just wanted to convey how fucked it feels being on the other side of town apathy where I can get lynched for nonsense reasons and garbage swing votes, just because it doesn't matter to them in the long run. And then when we lose the game it's like some magical scales fall from their eyes and they suddenly see the light: All of.a sudden they regret swing lynching and it's their fault but not really, maybe I shouldn't have been so scummy and-

Can you feel the exasperation?

 

[hey_monkey]

Maybe I'm trying to see something that isn't there, but the way that all plays out is throwing up warning bells.

I dunno, you didn't actually make the case.

 

[Verelios]

I dunno, you didn't actually make the case.

Extrapolate Monkey, is what do he wants.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

I dunno, you didn't actually make the case.

Oh, the case that fep attacked Stan early as a way of communication to the other scum, and then Stan did the same thing later. It's not an uncommon tactic, a way to "fight" without real retaliation, and a way for both players to appear active. It can also bull suspicion away if one of them flips, because they voted for each other.

 

[hey_monkey]

Extrapolate Monkey, is what do he wants.

What a typo. XD

But I'm particularly interested in seeing how LoC builds this. How he is putting things together, or not.

 

[flatearthpandas]

BTW This was what I was talking about earlier, interesting the collision that Fep jumped to, and that there's multiple.

Fep says that we should lynch today, but wait for more info on even days, almost immediately jumps on Stan for waiting to lynch. It feels forced when read in succession. Then he bumps you back later...









Maybe I'm trying to see something that isn't there, but the way that all plays out is throwing up warning bells.

Eh, I was hoping to draw out some thought from those wanting a lynch every day at that time so I threw a vote in response to it just being "boring" not to lynch (which is exactly why we should turbo if do NL btw though iirc he's opposed to that as well). I get where you're coming from I suppose, in that I didn't vote for oreo when we had similar talks. But my hope for yesterday was that I will try and lynch thoughtlessness.

Anyway, I don't have much more to say about Stan now.

Twice now corn has come back with a sheepish "I was embarrassed" response to being called out, tugging at my heartstrings. Tbh, not what I expected but I'm not sure why I had expectations really. Not sure if we've played together before. Anyone else have thoughts there?

 

[flatearthpandas]

Oh, the case that fep attacked Stan early as a way of communication to the other scum, and then Stan did the same thing later. It's not an uncommon tactic, a way to "fight" without real retaliation, and a way for both players to appear active. It can also bull suspicion away if one of them flips, because they voted for each other.

Meh.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

reiterating, since people are already sitting on some of the others and I've prodded oreo. Stan, what's the good word? What's the bad word? You got any words?

eh, kinda, mostly feeling frustratingly rudderless.

the only tangible thing so far that has set off any alarm bells was a thing with LoC's play just before last days end, how he kept pushing for us to lynch a more substantial candidate, reiterating it several times despite never giving any suitable alternative target, it just felt like he was making a big show of that stance, making sure that everyone knew just how certain he was that this lynch was a bad idea, rather than sincerely trying to change what was otherwise a near certain outcome.
the problem for me here is that literally everything else posted by LoC has been giving me pretty major townie vibes, making me really unsure if i wanted to really pursue that line of suspicion.

besides that the only bad juju vibes i have gotten would be from kitsune's play, but then iv never played with her before so im hesitant to jump to any conclusions.

oh, also

unvite

i stand by what i said earlier about nin's play, as aggravating as it can be to be on the receiving end, it really can be very helpful for figuring people out, especially given how little surefire info we have in a game like this.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

bloodyheckinsunovah

unvote

 

[Lord of Castamere]

the only tangible thing so far that has set off any alarm bells was a thing with LoC's play just before last days end, how he kept pushing for us to lynch a more substantial candidate, reiterating it several times despite never giving any suitable alternative target, it just felt like he was making a big show of that stance, making sure that everyone knew just how certain he was that this lynch was a bad idea, rather than sincerely trying to change what was otherwise a near certain outcome.
the problem for me here is that literally everything else posted by LoC has been giving me pretty major townie vibes, making me really unsure if i wanted to really pursue that line of suspicion.

I did, I gave you Fireblend. It was the best I could do yesterday, but it was something.

I was telling the sideliners who were whining, without actually digging and trying to find a solution, the reality.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

I did, I gave you Fireblend. It was the best I could do yesterday, but it was something.

I was telling the sideliners who were whining, without actually digging and trying to find a solution, the reality.

shit. your right, i wasnt seeing those posts in context of the earlier vote.

well there goes the one decent thing i noticed.

 

[hey_monkey]

I did, I gave you Fireblend.

oh, you did, huh

 

[Lord of Castamere]

oh, you did, huh

All credit goes to me. 100%.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Short list for the day. I will try to dig something else up before day end.

Generally, (not always true), inactive players tend to be town.

Town
12. [m] CornBurrito (inactive, clearly not reading, but I don't think he's scum)
5. [m] isaacnukem (inactive)
8. [m] Trigger (was reading opposite yesterday, not making bold claims, whining, but I'm not feeling scum)
13. [m] Christina Mackenzie (not enough to judge, meta says he played the same way in Harry Potter as Town)
6. [m] verelios (discussing, lying a little low, but engaging)
7. [f] kitsunelaine (not seeing scum, soft claims, some conversation, but feeling more slow town)
14. [f] hey_monkey (active, decent discussion, no coasting, strong discussion, strong stances)
17. [m] rac (inactive)
4. [m] Muffin1611 (soft claims, bad vote yesterday, but some discussion)

Netural
3. [m] nin1000 (some coasting, some aggression, some caution, I'm not feeling good about nin this game, him and Sawneeks pulled back, him worse, and I don't like that. As a shot in the dark right now, I think that the neutral is with nin or oreo)

15. [f] sawneeks (active but coasting a bit too, good discussion, no strong stances, could be active scum)
10. [m] flatearthpandas and/or 11. [m] StanleyPalmtree, reasons I outlined above.
9. [m] oreomunsta (providing lots of number, not much else, the numbers are focused on neutral, nothing seen that would be town, all of the focus on the arson could be future proofing, makes him look good in hindsight)

If I were to honestly put a hard vote down it would be oreo. Actually, I think I will for now.

VOTE: Oreomunsta

 

[squidyj]

Oh right, Oreo you asked if the arsonist counted as anti-town. He absolutely does.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Oh right, Oreo you asked if the arsonist counted as anti-town. He absolutely does.

He. Mod slip

 

[isaacnukem]

The arsonist is also more effective the less number of times they pull the trigger, too, it seems, since igniting sounds like it's the night turn

I'm currently reading through the game now, so the arsonist can trigger as many times as they want? It's not a one time thing?

 

[isaacnukem]

Pros and cons of a bulletproof arsonist:

Pro: acts as a wasted kill for scum. They might be tempted to pull a gambit just to get the arsonist lynched.

Con: everyone burns

 

[isaacnukem]

So I'm on page 5 and the discussion of no lynches is still alive. I'm not sure if anyone has brought it up, but what if we fake vote on these no lynch days? A fake vote is a vote that you would've stuck with on that day's end. This way, we can still track voting patterns and changes to people's reads and get the discussion going.

PS: I'm on camp lynch everyday though

 

[isaacnukem]

So, already a bit outdated, but:


So are any of these people new? I don't know LoC or CM, but I got the sense they weren't new?

rac and Trigger I don't expect to be high volume posters, so their numbers don't seem alignment indicative. Muffin is leaning into filler but that seems like holdover newbie stuff, NAI. nin is doing some kind of bit but it doesn't seem scummy.

The thing about Sawneeks is that I've only played with Sawneeks when she's scum (twice) and these big posts and lots of discussion generation is how she functions as scum. It reads as town. But is it? Anyone who's played with her as town want to weigh in? We should watch her content carefully, I think.

Wondering when Fireblend will carve out some time for the phase.

Kinda hurts you don't remember me

 

[isaacnukem]

But do you really want to lynch a player on D1 who is one of the more talkative ones? I know only D1 flip will give us 100% info on alignment, but I'm also trying to consider the later concequences. Flips aren't the only thing that matter. What also matters is having a healthy, strong town that doesn't turn into apathy after all of the potential town leaders have been axed.

Talkative ones=regulars, dead weights=newbs. Gotcha.

 

[isaacnukem]

And for the record, this is why I'm a little sus of Fireblend. Busy? No problem; we all get busy. Drive-by addition though to kill a major part of the day's discussion in an already quiet game? Hmm. We need to be able to openly discuss without fear so we can see what people do. This bugs me.

Would scum really offer excuses throughout the whole game? Why even play? Do you even know of anyone who does that?

 

[isaacnukem]

Okay, y'all, I'll be out a bit this evening - stuff to do before podcast recording, and then a bit of work (which I almost accurately typoed as a bitch of work) before a long day of meetings tomorrow. If you need me, leave questions or whatever.

Off topic, but you have a podcast? :O

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

yeah thats right issac, you inflate that post count.
right on!

 

[nin1000]

Lol.
How dare you copy me

 

[nin1000]

Talkative ones=regulars, dead weights=newbs. Gotcha.

More like this

Talkative = people who post regularly
Dead weight = people who don't

 

[isaacnukem]

I would say turbo just so we don't have to spend three RL days chatting in a no-pressure situation that will end with a no lynch. That's effectively a six-day day. Seems like a waste of all of our RL time when we could just buckle down, see the next town flip, and then get into real conversation. If we don't care too much which of the two days we lynch on then I'm not too bothered because there's still pressure. This is where oreo's breakdown comes in.

I don't honestly see these as wasteful, as every post we get is information we can use, every time the clock ticks the more nervous the anti-town players will be, and the more they'll make mistakes and slips. In my opinion, I have barely seen a group of scum so great at lying that they can talk a lot without getting caught. As for the days being a waste, how is it that if it leads to us winning? There is no easy way to victory. Patience is a virtue and all that.

 

[isaacnukem]

More like this

Talkative = people who post regularly
Dead weight = people who don't

I understand at least kitsunelaine and muffin are new. I've only been to three games in this site but I've seen you have problems with aggression and retaining players. Why not instead of lynching new people every first chance you get, why not help them become better?

 

[isaacnukem]

yeah thats right issac, you inflate that post count.
right on!

Lol.
How dare you copy me

What should be a normal return then, how should I do it?

 

[hey_monkey]

Kinda hurts you don't remember me

??? We played together twice before. You play mostly (only?) on mobile. You sometimes ask cryptic questions and don't always clarify but that seems NAI, just a posting tic. Of course I remember you. Just didn't have anything to say about you in that particular post.

 

[hey_monkey]

Off topic, but you have a podcast? :O

Almost at 160 episodes of angry feminism!

 

[isaacnukem]

Oh, and to address the other part of the post:



We'll have more discussion and interactions to look back on? A smaller pool of players to analyze? I just don't think avoiding lynches is going to save the day.

It'll get to that point anyway, unless town suddenly developed superpowers and get scum every day.

 

[isaacnukem]

I know Kits is disagreeing right now but this would be why you Turbo a No Lynch. We could discuss, sure, but in a Day Phase with no pressure or threat of dying then Scum can just blend into the crowd without having to worry. It's essentially a nothing Day Phase and it would be better to just move on with it and get to the Day where we could lynch.

I think you're underestimating how hard that is to do.

 

[rac]

so for the people wanting to lynch today

what are you going to do without a flip, continue on the same path or pick a new link?

if on day 4 we have 1 anti-town dead which lead will you follow up on?

what if the anti-town was the arsonist?

 

[isaacnukem]

You realize of course that if no one is getting lynched today, there's no way to genuinely pressure someone? Your questions and votes are meaningless.

You can still genuinely pressure people into the next day. People will still die. We can still derive motives and deduce from the dead people's posts.

 

[nin1000]

I understand at least kitsunelaine and muffin are new. I've only been to three games in this site but I've seen you have problems with aggression and retaining players. Why not instead of lynching new people every first chance you get, why not help them become better?

Sorry but this is just not true.
Coming off as agressive does not equal as having problems with aggression.

Voting on someone who is silent is a viable tactic to force them to at least say something in order to value the content.

 

[hey_monkey]

I think you're underestimating how hard that is to do.

Look at the number of people just sitting in this game, either because they aren't sure/there's nothing to go on/they make small observations/they debate lynch or not.

How hard is it to blend in?

 

[isaacnukem]

Sorry but this is just not true.
Coming off as agressive does not equal as having problems with aggression.

Voting on someone who is silent is a viable tactic to force them to at least say something in order to value the content.

I'm not singling you out. First game I played here was quite the fireworks display, Pineapple Mafia.

How is it a viable tactic? It seems to me they lead to people clamming up, then people pile on them for being shady, then they flip, turn out town, then after a few more games they call it quits forMafiaever.

See this example though:

Honestly, what do we lose? We're basically back at d1 - our leads are both dead. We can resurrect the inactive discussion. We can go over the scattered votes. Not that you're doing any of this; you're just pointing fingers. If you have something to discuss, then discuss, but just going in circles isn't helping town either.

PS: hey_monkey can I get a name for your thing?

 

[hey_monkey]

See this example though:

Wait, what is my post an example of?

 

[isaacnukem]

So here is where I'm at right now.

Town
hey_monkey - huge fan. Honestly think you're the face of town Mafia in this part of the interwebs. You're the only person I think is 99% town in this game. Remaining 1% because we're not on the same team on the no-lynch/lynch thing.
flatearthpandas
LordOfCastamere - I'm actually kind of wary of you, you actually seem pretty unflustered, with less posts than the other townies on this list but your posts are no nonsense
sawneeks
verelios
kitsunelaine
oreomunsta
Trigger - I kinda feel the way people read you is how I play so I get you

Neutral
Muffin1611 - so I'm not sure, I'm now second guessing if you're new, what was the uncertainty back in day 1 all about? Day 1 random voting blues? You seem to have suddenly turned around
nin1000 - comes across as confrontational, but I just can't seem to put you into scum territory. Would scum be this bold?
Christina Mackenzie - I feel like people see you as town but I'm not seeing it. Maybe it's the lack of avatar.

Scum
StanleyPalmTree - whole lot of nothing
rac - I honestly can't read you, you've probably got more posts than me but none of them feel good.
CornBurrito - your mistakes in this game are borderline silly it seems calculated.

I'm down to lynching any of the three of the people I've listed as scum. Right now, I'll go with

VOTE: StanleyPalmTree

 

[oreomunsta]

Oh right, Oreo you asked if the arsonist counted as anti-town. He absolutely does.

Thanks! Don't have to recalculate any of my assertions now

I'm currently reading through the game now, so the arsonist can trigger as many times as they want? It's not a one time thing?

It says in the description that they can do x or y every night, so I'm reading that as not limited. Squids is pretty clear with other one shot roles like hypnotist

 

[isaacnukem]

Wait, what is my post an example of?

Helping people become better at the game

Thanks! Don't have to recalculate any of my assertions now


It says in the description that they can do x or y every night, so I'm reading that as not limited. Squids is pretty clear with other one shot roles like hypnotist

Can we get a confirmation from you, Squidj?

Now off to catch up on another game I'm on. Good grief.

 

[oreomunsta]

Also, for LoC, how are my numbers future proofing me or only focusing on neutral? There is mafia and there is the neutral. Two independent threats to town, so I treat them separately

Mafia is easy to figure out how they would play, so their threat to town is a constant night kill EVERY night. Neutral is the wild card, but I'm trying to show the extent of how "wild" that card is.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

why does everyone capitalize the T?
it annoys me way more than it should.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Also, for LoC, how are my numbers future proofing me or only focusing on neutral? There is mafia and there is the neutral. Two independent threats to town, so I treat them separately

Mafia is easy to figure out how they would play, so their threat to town is a constant night kill EVERY night. Neutral is the wild card, but I'm trying to show the extent of how "wild" that card is.

Yeah, which benefits your potential scum allies as much as town, and you've been doing this without much/any contribution to town.

I've provided plenty of numbers as scum too, not hard a bit time consuming maybe, and it makes it look like your doing something.