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[abstract alien]

What an awesome op. The narrative in Souls can definitely go right past you if you aren't paying attention, and even if you are, there is a ton of information that can easily be missed. Great write up, and much prefered over that grating video in the first(fourth) post lol

 

[tcrunch]

alright, I read it all...

thanks a lot for the summary, I entered the souls series by Bloodborne and I have DS3 preordered but never played the original 2, now things are a lot more clear now.

although the text gets really confusing in some paragraphs, I got a whole idea of what is this universe. thanks a lot for the effort

If you can point out any spots where it is confusing, I can correct for future readers. I tried my best to spot check it for situations where I am referencing something someone who has not played the games would not know, but I have dumped lots of hours into both games so it's a bit hard. I uh, make many apologies for my writing abilities.

One thing that is good (and difficult) to keep in mind is that many terms central to DARK SOULS' background are referenced as both a metaphor and a literal object. Sometimes the game itself points this out, like in the description of the Humanity item in DARK SOULS:

Rare tiny black sprite found on corpses.

This black sprite is called humanity, but
little is known about its true nature.
If the soul is the source of all life,
then what distinguishes the humanity
we hold within ourselves?

In DARK SOULS, you collect Humanity items and then eat them in order to reverse the deleterious effects of dying and coming back to life, i.e. the player character losing HP and resembling a corpse due to going Hollow. But when you're talking about humanity the concept, or humanity as it exists in our own IRL world, you're just talking about the traits of being human. The game asks you to decide what those traits are, and within its mechanics humanity can be harvested from others- it's not just altruism, or kindness to others, or virtues at all that define a human in SOULS. People that end up with an overabundance of humanity actually transform into monsters.

The Fire/First Flame is another one of these kinds of metaphor-object moshes the game bases itself on. We understand that a fire can go out, but in DARK SOULS, fire also means power, and is the "source of all life" mentioned above. So the poster who said DARK SOULS is about the inevitability of death is exactly right, considering that the Fire always fades.

You do not have to engage with all the literal concepts the game throws at you, but it is fun to think about them.

 

[JerkShep]

The lore regarding the Giants in Dark Souls 2 is very messy. What did Vendrick stole from them? What is the Giant's Kinship? What's the connection with the giants of the original Dark Souls? Why having Giant Souls weakens Vendrick in his boss fight? Why can you create a "dragon" with a giant soul? If the dragon is fake, what's the connection with Shanalotte? Why exactly Nashandra wanted to destroy them?

This is really central stuff and there are basically no clues. Sure, I can come up with some fanfictiony stuff to answer all that, but the descriptions are truly lacking in this regard. It was basically the only new "plot point" introduced in DaS 2 and it's the most unfinished part, most of the rest is a reharsh of Dark Souls 1 lore more or less.

 

[Kyleripman]

We'll definitely get the final answer. The true boss who was orchestrating everything. But the decision to succeed them or reject them will still be there. It is a Souls game after all

That would be perfect (and something to look forward to).

The lore regarding the Giants in Dark Souls 2 is very messy. What did Vendrick stole from them? What is the Giant's Kinship? What's the connection with the giants of the original Dark Souls? Why having Giant Souls weakens Vendrick in his boss fight? Why can you create a "dragon" with a giant soul? If the dragon is fake, what's the connection with Shanalotte? Why exactly Nashandra wanted to destroy them?

I'm also interested in these questions. I read a lot of speculation about Shanalotte, dragons, and the old woman at the start of the story, but nothing entirely convincing to me.

 

[DoubleTake]

Dark Souls 1's lore wasn't cyclical. It has eras, Age of Ancients, Age of Fire, Age of Dark, but not cycles. The cycles stuff personally annoys me because Dark Souls is about entropy and the inevitability of death. Even if you try to extend the Age of Fire it's no use because it all comes to an end eventually. The perpetuality of cycles ruins that entire point. At least Dark Souls 3 looks like its doing something interesting with the cycles stuff, we'll see.

Nice summary anyway, op. lol

How many people are going to ignore this?

Just because someone relit the flame does not mean its a cycle. Youre only prolonging the inevitable. There is no cycle. Just as Age of Ancients, an Age of Light, and an Age of Dark. Characters from the first game concocted a prophecy to fool the undead/humans into keeping the flame lit which in turn keeps humanity below them.

But Dark Souls 2 happened, mostly rehashing the story of 1 while forgetting key themes/elements and now its somehow a cycle. SMH

 

[Protocol7]

Interesting, bookmarked

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

Just because someone relit the flame does not mean its a cycle.

My definition of a cycle must be different from yours. Those that side with the dark must start over essentially. While also giving the land new life in the exact same way that Gwyn did. Only for the Curse to to eventually return. People could delay the Dark indefinitely, in a continuous cycle of linking the flame.

 

[SargerusBR]

How many people are going to ignore this?

Just because someone relit the flame does not mean its a cycle. Youre only prolonging the inevitable. There is no cycle. Just as Age of Ancients, an Age of Light, and an Age of Dark. Characters from the first game concocted a prophecy to fool the undead/humans into keeping the flame lit which in turn keeps humanity below them.

But Dark Souls 2 happened, mostly rehashing the story of 1 while forgetting key themes/elements and now its somehow a cycle. SMH

The cycle is about rekindling the flame, there is no evidence that the Age of Dark ever happened in DS2.

 

[tcrunch]

The lore regarding the Giants in Dark Souls 2 is very messy. What did Vendrick stole from them?

I agree. I had no idea what was up with the giants when the game originally came out. I thought perhaps he had stolen the Kiln of the First Flame or something from them (since, well, that's what happens in the end, you lock yourself in a giant pottery baker).

The Aldia patch redid all the giant-related item descriptions and Nashandra's to address the subject:

----------

The beings who presented themselves to those in search of kinghood were drawn to their awesome strength. [Bow of Want]

One fragment of Dark, having taken human shape, became obsessed with the King's soul. Impelled by its own cravings, it sought souls, and strove to make the strength of the Giants its own. [King's Shield]

King Vendrick, in adherence to Queen Nashandra's counsel, led his armies north in an effort to subjugate the Giants, and claim their powerful souls for his own. [Giant Warrior Club]

Soul of the Giant Lord, who once conquered Drangleic. Vendrick crossed the seas, took prisoner the Giants, and brought them back to his castle, clapped in irons. However, after this modest triumph, his countenance could be seen to grow darker with each passing day. [Giant Lord Soul]

Soul of the surviving giant, who was bound below the Forest of the Giants. The lord of the Giants, who had brought wrack and ruin to the entire kingdom, was said to have been felled by an unknown warrior. His beaten and broken remains were then dragged beneath the stronghold, where he was sealed away. [Soul of the Last Giant] (I actually don't care for this change, I think it better to figure this tidbit from the gameplay.)

----------

Oddly enough it does not revise the Giant's Kinship to bring more clarity to that item specifically, but rather to support Aldia's narrative about what a true monarch might want:

Each King has his rightful throne. And when he sits upon it, he sees what he chooses to see. Or perhaps, it is the throne, which shows the king only what he wants. The flames roar, but will soon begin to fade, and only a worthy heir might burnish their light. What is it, truly, a claimant of the throne could desire? [Giant's Kinship]

----------

The icon for the kinship is a swirling purple mass with a hole in the middle, I'm guessing it's a kind of soul. For Nashandra, the defeat of the Giant Lord was a sufficient test to determine if Vendrick was finally powerful enough for her to eat to inherit the Fire. Because Vendrick abandoned the defense of his kingdom, she set her sights on the player character instead.

If the dragon is fake, what's the connection with Shanalotte?

The Shanalotte/Dragon connection is still a bit odd. Both of them are artificial creations, but the actual connection feels more like a reference to Priscilla than anything with meaning. In the case of the Dragon, Aldia was experimenting with recreation of the Age of Ancients. With Shanalotte, I guess the Age of Fire (Navlaan notes that she is sometimes referred to as a Firekeeper). The dragon probably watched over and shared its life with Shanalotte after Aldia was done with it.

 

[Orochinagis]

How many people are going to ignore this?

Just because someone relit the flame does not mean its a cycle. Youre only prolonging the inevitable. There is no cycle. Just as Age of Ancients, an Age of Light, and an Age of Dark. Characters from the first game concocted a prophecy to fool the undead/humans into keeping the flame lit which in turn keeps humanity below them.

But Dark Souls 2 happened, mostly rehashing the story of 1 while forgetting key themes/elements and now its somehow a cycle. SMH

Dont forget the breaking the curse when you get the buffed crown. you cant break it.

The lore regarding the Giants in Dark Souls 2 is very messy. What did Vendrick stole from them? What is the Giant's Kinship? What's the connection with the giants of the original Dark Souls? Why having Giant Souls weakens Vendrick in his boss fight? Why can you create a "dragon" with a giant soul? If the dragon is fake, what's the connection with Shanalotte? Why exactly Nashandra wanted to destroy them?

This is really central stuff and there are basically no clues. Sure, I can come up with some fanfictiony stuff to answer all that, but the descriptions are truly lacking in this regard. It was basically the only new "plot point" introduced in DaS 2 and it's the most unfinished part, most of the rest is a reharsh of Dark Souls 1 lore more or less.

It wasnt stated what vendrik stole from them the evidence points out it was the Giant Kinship but still some say it was the Throne, others, their face.
He in fact leaned how to manipulate souls and use them to create the Golems which he used to build his kingdom, while Aldia tortured and experimented on the Giants to elaborate a new type of undead who could possibly ignore the cure by being sterile of feelings of the human nature slighly emulating the dragons era were everything was quiet and devoid of emotions.

Thats why aldia is a three. and archtree

I want to believe the treasure Vendrik stole was the giants kinship.

Looks like the giants in DS2 are another tribe of giants completely different from the Lordran Giant, more tribal and can use pyromancy

About Vendrik being weak when you got souls, it looks like those where the giants souls he absorbed from those said giants, granting him high resistances, you simply took them from him by took them from the past.

Aldia recreated the Ancient Dragon with the help of the giants souls,implying the original Ancient Dragon died a long time ago or just simply a extra fail safe mechanic to allow you get a giant soul in case you dont find enough giant souls at that point like the extra estus fragment.

Shannalote is a dragon, aldia tried to make a human devoid of feelings since he considered the human nature of desire and ambition a "Sin" to find a cure of curse, Still, the Herald was a failed experiment but was strong enough due her dragon heritage to be the firekeeper of all drangelic bondfire system

Nashandra tells you to not listen to the ancient dragon because the ancient dragon is not a real dragon but a pawn of Aldia

 

[DoubleTake]

My definition of a cycle must be different from yours. Those that side with the dark must start over essentially. While also giving the land new life in the exact same way that Gwyn did. Only for the Curse to to eventually return. People could delay the Dark indefinitely, in a continuous cycle of linking the flame.

Thats too specific for my tastes. The game isnt called Light Souls for a reason. The "cycle" doesnt revolve around relighting of the flame its about the different stages the world will go through before everything is laid to waste. This is why Ds1 starts off telling us about the age of Ancients, why we are thrust into a fading age of Light in Ds1, and why Ds3 is finally showing what happens when the world is on the cusp of Dark. Again, there isnt a cycle, only prolonging of the inevitable.

The cycle is about rekindling the flame, there is no evidence that the Age of Dark ever happened in DS2.

Exactly. Its just prolonging 1 age. There isnt a cycle because nothing effectively ever changed from Dark Souls 1 to 2. Its stagnation not cyclical. It would be a cycle if the ages actually changed but they dont.

In Ds3 the next step is about to happen, an age of Dark. Everyone's in a tizzy trying to prevent it, to prolong the stagnation. If someone manages to relight the flame theyre not "prolonging a cycle of light/fire" theyre preventing a change from happening.

 

[Nere]

I never understood if the dragons are thought extinct then how come there are some like Kalameet and Sihn?

 

[JerkShep]

I agree. I had no idea what was up with the giants when the game originally came out. I thought perhaps he had stolen the Kiln of the First Flame or something from them (since, well, that's what happens in the end, you lock yourself in a giant pottery baker).

The Aldia patch redid all the giant-related item descriptions and Nashandra's to address the subject:

----------

The icon for the kinship is a swirling purple mass with a hole in the middle, I'm guessing it's a kind of soul. For Nashandra, the defeat of the Giant Lord was a sufficient test to determine if Vendrick was finally powerful enough for her to eat to inherit the Fire. Because Vendrick abandoned the defense of his kingdom, she set her sights on the player character instead.

The Shanalotte/Dragon connection is still a bit odd. Both of them are artificial creations, but the actual connection feels more like a reference to Priscilla than anything with meaning. In the case of the Dragon, Aldia was experimenting with recreation of the Age of Ancients. With Shanalotte, I guess the Age of Fire (Navlaan notes that she is sometimes referred to as a Firekeeper). The dragon probably watched over and shared its life with Shanalotte after Aldia was done with it.

You're right, the Scholar patch kind of fix it, but it seems a bit of a cop out, the vanilla game almost implied that he stole an object important to them, so the options were limited. It could have been the Lordvessel...but Drangleic is Lordran that would have made no sense. It could have been the Throne of Want....but basically Throne of Want = Kiln of the First Flame with a different design, it looks different but it's still the same function.

So they opted with "Oh yes he stole...ehm....the Giants!!" Which could actually make SORT OF sense because it's implied that the giants act like a single entity by....the soldier in the memory. So one could theorize that the Giant's Kinship is a mean to control the giants in some way. But if the Memories are recreation of history then Vendrick obtained it only during their attack, not before. And to add to that, it seems kind of stupid that the only reason you need the Giant's Kinship to see the ending is because it's needed to create...a bridge...of golems.

On Shanalotte, yes it seems to be an half assed attempt to mix Priscilla and the Maiden in Black but in the Dark Souls lore it's a bit iffy, Shanalotte's abilities don't sit right with me considering what we now of the Ancient Dragon. But since it seems there will be a new Maiden in Black/Doll in Dark Souls 3 (from the screenshots), maybe we'll get some answers on how a Firekeeper can control souls and in gameplay terms level you up.

I never understood if the dragons are thought extinct then how come there are some like Kalameet and Sihn?

Kalameet is in the past though, in a time period much closer to the original war with the dragons, so it might be one of the last survivors. Sihn is a bit more strange, but I guess he is more similar to something like the Gaping Dragon, not as mutated but he is full of poison (Nito's miasma?). It's not so strange that some dragons might have survived the war.

 

[Slammin_Hammon]

So iirc in some DS3 preview footage I've seen an ember being consumed in a similar manner to humanity or a human effigy. From a lore perspective I wonder what this implies? Does it mean you play as a being similar to Gwyn and the others that ushered in the age of fire?

 

[tcrunch]

I never understood if the dragons are thought extinct then how come there are some like Kalameet and Sihn?

They're dragons, but they're not everlasting dragons. They're either descendants of those, or they've simply lost their immortality. I suspect the latter at least for Kalameet, considering how Gough describes him and because you are in the past when you fight him. Technically you're in the past when you meet Sinh too.

The Gaping Dragon is another example of a "dragon":
the Gaping Dragon, a distant, deformed descendant of the everlasting dragons. [Dragon King Greataxe]

The real kicker is this guy, in Ash Lake.

He resembles the original dragons a lot more closely than any other, but he's still not a 1:1. He's described as a descendant as well by the sword you cut from his tail.

 

[tcrunch]

And to add to that, it seems kind of stupid that the only reason you need the Giant's Kinship to see the ending is because it's needed to create...a bridge...of golems.

I don't think this is the case, we know the golems are not true giants, they're powered by souls (Soul-Powered Giants is my band name btw). I think it is more that Nashandra recognizes you have obtained the power of the giants, so she challenges you. The golems don't activate until you make the choice to approach the throne after having defeated Watcher and Defender and overcoming all other challengers.

edit: reply is not edit...

 

[Manu]

I think the biggest mystery in the series is still the size discrepancy between "human" figures.

like, Gwyn is about your size. Artorias is taller, and so are Ornstein and Smough.

But then Ciaran is regular size as well. And Gough is basically a giant.

Same with Vendrick, Sir Alonne, Fume Knight, Velstadt, etc.

 

[SargerusBR]

I think the biggest mystery in the series is still the size discrepancy between "human" figures.

like, Gwyn is about your size. Artorias is taller, and so are Ornstein and Smough.

But then Ciaran is regular size as well. And Gough is basically a giant.

Same with Vendrick, Sir Alonne, Fume Knight, Velstadt, etc.

IMO it's a simple gameplay mechanic, for example it's really common in MMO's for a boss to have a bigger size than the PC.

 

[Orochinagis]

I think the biggest mystery in the series is still the size discrepancy between "human" figures.

like, Gwyn is about your size. Artorias is taller, and so are Ornstein and Smough.

But then Ciaran is regular size as well. And Gough is basically a giant.

Same with Vendrick, Sir Alonne, Fume Knight, Velstadt, etc.

Bigger size means the enemy or NPC is more important than the rest, hence why most of the enemies are like that, even humans.

 

[Manu]

Bigger size means the enemy or NPC is more important than the rest, hence why most of the enemies are like that, even humans.

Then why is Gough bigger than Gwyn? All four of Gwyn's knights are different sizes.

It doesn't make sense.

 

[MUnited83]

I think the biggest mystery in the series is still the size discrepancy between "human" figures.

like, Gwyn is about your size. Artorias is taller, and so are Ornstein and Smough.

But then Ciaran is regular size as well. And Gough is basically a giant.

Same with Vendrick, Sir Alonne, Fume Knight, Velstadt, etc.

I remember something about the size depending on the number of souls someone has. Not sure if this is actually canon though

 

[tcrunch]

I remember something about the size depending on the number of souls someone has. Not sure if this is actually canon though

Soulpower as a factor would not make sense, because Gwyn has the most powerful soul and yet he is close the player's size. EDIT: lies, all lies, Gwyn was burning his soul up to keep the Fire going, ignore me

You could play at associations with Darkness instead, but that would not explain O&S. I think close association with Darkness does cover all the DS2 characters, even Sir Alonne due to his sword that is bewitched with a dark/hex-like effect during its signature attack.

 

[Movalpolos]

Thanks for this.

 

[NCR Redslayer]

http://youtu.be/M9x_koRZ2bA
Still my favorite video summary of dark souls.

 

[Orochinagis]

Then why is Gough bigger than Gwyn? All four of Gwyn's knights are different sizes.

It doesn't make sense.

Gough is a giant still, Gwyn fragmented his soul for the 4 kings, then he used the remaining leftlovers to fuel the fire and became hollow, maybe thats why he is so small at the size of a human still there are some knights at your size like Ciaran.

I remember something about the size depending on the number of souls someone has. Not sure if this is actually canon though

Yes, in DkS1 made sense, but they went overboard in Souls 2

 

[todd360]

http://youtu.be/M9x_koRZ2bA
Still my favorite video summary of dark souls.

Thanks for posting this. I completely forgot about this video. Also your a Duke now always has me in tears.

 

[Hastati]

Amazing work, thank you for this! There's such an incredible amount of content to miss in these games when it comes to the narrative, so it's truly helpful to have story summations. Tempted to print it out and turn it into a leather-bound tome of souliciousness.

 

[struggler_guts]

Waiting until I finish my dark souls playthrough to finish reading this but looks really in depth and well written, thank you!

 

[Arkeband]

The lore regarding the Giants in Dark Souls 2 is very messy. What did Vendrick stole from them?

I always thought that they were in possession of the Lordvessel, and Vendrick brought it over to Drangleic.

You find it smashed in the basement of Majula, implying that you're standing roughly in the same geographic location as Firelink. And considering you're traveling around the continent, visiting different vistas at different points in time, it's possible that Majula exists in some separate time period with it being directly connected to the Things Betwixt, which is itself in "limbo".

 

[Nerokis]

One thing I've always wanted is a map that unites the locations mentioned in Dark Souls I and II. Specifically, it would be interesting to see how the various named kingdoms are connected. Surely hardcore lore buffs have a decent idea that "this kingdom and this kingdom were located in the same spot," and knowledge about other things along those lines, but I've had difficulty finding anything covering this.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

One thing I've always wanted is a map that unites the locations mentioned in Dark Souls I and II. Specifically, it would be interesting to see how the various named kingdoms are connected. Surely hardcore lore buffs have a decent idea that "this kingdom and this kingdom were located in the same spot," and knowledge about other things along those lines, but I've had difficulty finding anything covering this.

Noone knows. It's possible that the countries mentioned in DS2 correspond to a particular DS1 country, or they can be in different parts of the world entirely. Things like the sunbro altar can be explained by model reusage or fan service (or both).

It's heavily implied that all countries have gone through multiple eras with new names. Straid says as much. But I doubt that there is a specific document at From saying "Astora eventually became Mirrah" or something like that. Even within DS1 itself, at least part of what is called Lordran was once Oolacile.

 

[Auctopus]

The lore regarding the Giants in Dark Souls 2 is very messy. What did Vendrick stole from them? What is the Giant's Kinship? What's the connection with the giants of the original Dark Souls? Why having Giant Souls weakens Vendrick in his boss fight? Why can you create a "dragon" with a giant soul? If the dragon is fake, what's the connection with Shanalotte? Why exactly Nashandra wanted to destroy them?

This is really central stuff and there are basically no clues. Sure, I can come up with some fanfictiony stuff to answer all that, but the descriptions are truly lacking in this regard. It was basically the only new "plot point" introduced in DaS 2 and it's the most unfinished part, most of the rest is a reharsh of Dark Souls 1 lore more or less.

100% agree. It's just messy overall. It's also lead some fans to make outrageous explanations as to how Drangleic and Lordran are connected when there's no real reason/clues.

I can't stand fanfiction answers in Souls. I remember in late 2011 when people were putting together different stories/lore-pieces from real in-game item descriptions etc. and watching ENB. Now, you get these over-dramatic, emotionally-driven highly descriptive pieces about why Artorias loved Ciaran. Eugh.

 

[Banzai]

Nice Summary, thank you for that!

I still have a few questions, though:

Just to see if I understood it right: Pygmy gets Dark Soul, births humans, fire dwindles, (some?) humans become cursed (=undead), pygmy's will is to let fire go out so only undead survive?

Does the intro of DS3 mean either ending of DS1/2 can be canon? So the protag of 1 doesnt link the fire, but someone (one of the lords of cinder) in the cycles after him did? Or do we assume the dark lord endings are canon because the protags arent mentioned in the intro? -- edit: already answered in other posts, nvm

Im guessing the protagonists can never go hollow, no matter how many times you die. But for everyone else it happens because they died one too many times?

 

[ElFly]

Soulpower as a factor would not make sense, because Gwyn has the most powerful soul and yet he is close the player's size.

You could play at associations with Darkness instead, but that would not explain O&S. I think close association with Darkness does cover all the DS2 characters, even Sir Alonne due to his sword that is bewitched with a dark/hex-like effect during its signature attack.

Gwyn is burning his soul to keep the flame alight, though, therefore resetting him to his regular size.

Nice Summary, thank you for that!

I still have a few questions, though:

Just to see if I understood it right: Pygmy gets Dark Soul, births humans, fire dwindles, (some?) humans become cursed (=undead), pygmy's will is to let fire go out so only undead survive?

Does the intro of DS3 mean either ending of DS1/2 can be canon? So the protag of 1 doesnt link the fire, but someone (one of the lords of cinder) in the cycles after him did? Or do we assume the dark lord endings are canon because the protags arent mentioned in the intro?

Im guessing the protagonists can never go hollow, no matter how many times you die. But for everyone else it happens because they died one too many times?

DS2 implies that even if someone doesn't link the flame, it will keep burning slightly until someone does. Also there's an item that is the ashes of previous flame linkers and there are five of those, implying that at least five people have linked the fire between DS1 and DS2.

It is completely possible the two endings of DS1 are canon and that at least one of the endings of DS2 is, and maybe even both.

 

[Lernaean]

Great writeup. I applaud your dedication and i thank you OP.

 

[Eidan]

I think the reason why I have trouble following Dark Souls' plot is because I have a hard time understanding a lot of the important terms. What is the Fire, is it just like any fire? Magic fire? What do you mean these guys found the Lord Souls? What is the power or significance of souls?

It honestly reminds me of Kingdom Hearts with its Heart, the light, darkness, etc. I need help understanding what these things actually are.

 

[tcrunch]

I think the reason why I have trouble following Dark Souls' plot is because I have a hard time understanding a lot of the important terms. What is the Fire, is it just like any fire? Magic fire? What do you mean these guys found the Lord Souls? What is the power or significance of souls?

Most of the big important terms in DS are both metaphors and literal objects. Fire is the light of creation that created the first shadows, and from those shadows ("and then, from the Dark, They came") arose the first lifeforms. I call them lifeforms in the sense that they can actually die, but at the point when they first arose they were a bunch of tiny, pathetic raisin people. They went toward the Fire as all living things do (the game's fave metaphor for this is moths to a flame), craving pieces of it. The pieces of the original Fire are the Lord souls, with the exception of the last dark ember, which is the Dark soul.

The raisin people that picked up the Lord souls became the Lords, with their leader Gwyn being the Lord of Light.

The goof that picked up the last ember is the Dark Lord, and the Dark Lord's descendants are humans.

Fire always fades. Living things always die. In the DARK SOULS world, life is like a bit of mold in a dish that someone is holding the bleach over, and sometimes diluted drops of bleach fall and affect the mold, but don't necessarily kill it (Undead), but the day is always going to come where the bleach gets poured undiluted and everything, everywhere is wiped out. This is a really bad analogy but I am running off to work so it's what you get.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Gotta respect this series for handling storytelling in a very unique fashion.

http://youtu.be/M9x_koRZ2bA
Still my favorite video summary of dark souls.

WHATHEFUC

 

[Easy_D]

I never understood if the dragons are thought extinct then how come there are some like Kalameet and Sihn?

Sihn is just a lazy mofo who slept through it all. He's not known as the Slumbering Dragon for nothing.

 

[Mr. Poolman]

I posted this "quick" timeline on one of the many "Lets bash DS2 threads" out there.

All based on my observation:

The age of ancients

- Stone dragons and eternal trees ruled the land.
- The Lords find the great souls on the fire.
- The Furtive Pigmy finds the dark soul and gives birth to mankind.
- Gwyn and his knights team up with Nito and the Witch of Izalith to fight the dragons.
- Seath the scaleless tells Gwyn the dragon's weakness to lightning and betrays its own people.
- Seath is given the "duke" title by the winning Gwyn.
- The fire begins to fade, the Lords realize this would free the Abyss unto the world.
- The Witch of Izalith attempts to create a new primal fire and accidentaly gives birth to the Bed of Chaos and all demons.
- Gwyn sents Artorias to deal with the Abyss while he tries to link the fire.
- Artorias is corrupted by the Abyss and defeated by a time-traveling Chosen Undead.
- The Chosen Undead defeats Artorias, saves Sif and slays Kalameet.
- The Chosen Undead faces the Furtive Pigmy in the form of Manus and defeats him, instead of killing him, this splits his souls into many small pieces.
- Gwyn attempts to link the primal fire and becomes the Lord of Cinder.
- Gwynevere leaves Anor Londo which becomes surrounded in darkness.
- New Londo becomes engulfed in the Abyss, and it is flooded to stop the Abyss from spreading on Lordran.
- Gwyndolin and the serpent Frampt devise a plot to keep strong, souls-filled Undead to constantly link the fire. They fill Anor Londo with light to cover Gwynevere's abscence.
- The firekeepers die.

The dark age.

- The undead curse ravages humanity. Lordran falls.
- The undead are chased and sent to the Northern Undead Asylum.
- Frampt spills the legend of a "chosen undead" who will break the curse.
- The (or rather "a") Chosen Undead scapes the Asylum and makes his way to Lordran.
- The Chosen Undead obtains the Lord Souls and becomes powerful enough to challenge/sustitute Gwyn on the primal fire.
- The Chosen Undead links the fire / allows the fire to die and became a new age of darkness.

The modern age.

- The cicle of link fire/age of darkness is repeated at least 8 times.
- Kingdoms rise and die where Lordran stood. Now called Drangleic.
- A powerful undead king called Vendrick and his brother Aldia, figure out that to break the curse, an undead must harness the dark and control the fire. To do so, he needs the magical crowns. Vendrick figures out he is not the one who will break the curse, but set his way to make sure that when the correct undead comes, he finds an easier path.
- Aldia begins to experiment to resurrect the dragons, since they were ageless and Aldia thinks they are the key to break the curse.
- Vendrick travels to the sunken city of Shulva and finds the crown, but leaves it for a future undead to pick up.
- A beautiful woman called Nashandra enters Drangleic and Vendrick falls in love with her.
- The undead curse returns in strenght with Nashandra.
- Nashandra convinces Vendrick that the way to stop this, is to steal the Giant's treasure.
- Vendrick crosses the seas and steals the treasure, the Giants declare war on Drangleic.
- The Giants invade and destroy Drangleic, ravaged by war and the undead curse, Drangleic is on the verge of falling when a misterious figure (a time traveling Bearer of the Curse) appears and defeats the Giant King. Still is too late for Drangleic and the kingdom falls in ruin.
- Vendrick discovers that Nashandra is in fact a piece of Manus' soul, and puts into motion a plan to stop her from claiming the throne (which is set on the place of the primal fire).
- Vendrick hides his armor and crown on a place that only a Human can unlock, and with the last of his will, ask his right hand man Velstad to guard over him until the correct undead comes.
- The ancient Chaos resurfaces on Eleum Loyce as another of Manus's soul pieces called Alsanna enters the kingdom.
- Eleum Loyce's King and his knights valiantly stood on the way of Chaos to stop it from spreading.
- Aldia creates Shanalotte the Emerald Herald but figures out this is not the way to break the curse.
- Shanalotte becomes the last firekeeper.
- Many undead are called by instinct to Drangleic.
- The Bearer of the Curse arrives to Drangleic and Shanalotte recognizes him/her as the new monarch.
- The Bearer of the Curse defeats the Great Lord's reincarnation and becomes worthy of finding Vendrick's legacy.
- The Bearer of the Curse defeats Nashandra and Aldia and speaks with Vendrick's memory.
- The Bearer of the Curse sets his/her way to defeat all Manus' soul fragments and recover the lost crowns.
- The Bearer of the Curse finds all the crowns and succesfully breaks the curse becoming an inmortal dark king on a dying world.

There are a LOT more of events, but I'm at work!

 

[tcrunch]

Just to see if I understood it right: Pygmy gets Dark Soul, births humans, fire dwindles, (some?) humans become cursed (=undead), pygmy's will is to let fire go out so only undead survive?

I have a feeling that it is inevitable for all humans to eventually become Undead as the Fire fades, but it is not clear because you never meet anyone who is not an Undead and the games take place in areas where only Undead venture.

We know that at first not all humans show the Darksign, because those who don't have a tendency to lock up those that do, and because the knight at the start of DARK SOULS tells you that the Undead are "chosen". It's not a very special choosing if everyone is chosen.

Most of what we know about the Dark Lord comes from Kaathe, who has caused the downfall of at least two separate villages by manipulating the people there. But yes, the Dark Lord wanted to bring out an age in which humans ruled instead of those fire-based Lords.

After the advent of fire, the ancient lords found the three souls. But your progenitor found a fourth, unique soul. The Dark Soul. Your ancestor claimed the Dark Soul and waited for Fire to subside. And soon, the flames did fade, and only Dark remained. Thus began the age of men, the Age of Dark.

Gwyn screwed this up by lighting himself on the Fire. Then, he left behind Frampt to make sure future Undead could be coaxed into taking his place when the time came.

 

[Unai]

I have a feeling that it is inevitable for all humans to eventually become Undead as the Fire fades, but it is not clear because you never meet anyone who is not an Undead and the games take place in areas where only Undead venture.

We know that at first not all humans show the Darksign, because those who don't have a tendency to lock up those that do, and because the knight at the start of DARK SOULS tells you that the Undead are "chosen". It's not a very special choosing if everyone is chosen.

Most of what we know about the Dark Lord comes from Kaathe, who has caused the downfall of at least two separate villages by manipulating the people there. But yes, the Dark Lord wanted to bring out an age in which humans ruled instead of those fire-based Lords.



Gwyn screwed this up by lighting himself on the Fire. Then, he left behind Frampt to make sure future Undead could be coaxed into taking his place when the time came.

I think that Sieglinde of Catarina is alive.

 

[Roarer]

Fantastic write up(s)! A few questions that still linger:

What is the implication of The Age of Dark? If The Furtive Pygmy with the power of the Dark Soul spawned humans, what would be in it for humans and humanity to usher in the Age of Dark? Seems to me that it just leads to the undead taking over and everyone being cursed. Was the Pygmy/Manus a malignant creator? Or does the Dark Soul corrupt?

In Dark Souls, why would the player fight Gwyn before linking the fire? Wouldn't it be in Gwyn's interest to allow the player to link the fire? This is one of my biggest gripes with the series actually - the only verb available to the player is 'kill'. Most of the time, the story supports the player having to face of and defeat every single character she/he meets, but sometimes I wish the game offered other ways of resolving things.

 

[Manu]

By the time you find Gwyn, he's gone hollow. There's no reasoning with him.

I mean, he does try to kill you the moment you enter the kiln.

 

[Kazuhira]

So iirc in some DS3 preview footage I've seen an ember being consumed in a similar manner to humanity or a human effigy. From a lore perspective I wonder what this implies? Does it mean you play as a being similar to Gwyn and the others that ushered in the age of fire?

Supposedly,your character linked the fire before and you're an Unkindled,not an undead.

 

[Ferr986]

Fantastic write up(s)! A few questions that still linger:

What is the implication of The Age of Dark? If The Furtive Pygmy with the power of the Dark Soul spawned humans, what would be in it for humans and humanity to usher in the Age of Dark? Seems to me that it just leads to the undead taking over and everyone being cursed. Was the Pygmy/Manus a malignant creator? Or does the Dark Soul corrupt?

Just my assumption but I would say it's the Dark Soul. Manus transformed into what it is when his humanity went wild (his soul says: Ancient Manus was clearly once human.But he became the Father of the Abyss after his humanity went wild), and humanity comes from the Dark Soul (every human soul has a tiny bit of dark).

Same with the citizens of Oolacile that awakened Manus, fooled by Kathee, and got transformed into bloated monsters.

 

[tcrunch]

Fantastic write up(s)! A few questions that still linger:

What is the implication of The Age of Dark? If The Furtive Pygmy with the power of the Dark Soul spawned humans, what would be in it for humans and humanity to usher in the Age of Dark? Seems to me that it just leads to the undead taking over and everyone being cursed. Was the Pygmy/Manus a malignant creator? Or does the Dark Soul corrupt?

We know that people who chug on too much humanity/darkness get all messed up (see: Oolacile), except for the Dark Lord. The cutscenes for the game have always ended beyond a description of the Age of Dark being really dark (who woulda thunkit) and you getting lots of primordial serpents willing to "serve" you. It's also called the age of man, but Vendrick refers to this as men "taking our true shape", which means that while men may be dominant in the Age of Dark, it may not be in the form or way you expect.

Bear in mind that in DARK SOULS, the only information the protagonist gets about the Age of Dark is from the serpent Kaathe, so even if it wasn't 100% honesty as to what the Age of Dark entails, that's all the protag has to go on. Kaathe, however, insists he is sharing the "truth without sentiment".

The Dark Souls 2 DLC gave this line to Vendrick:

One day, fire will fade, and Dark will become a curse. Men will be free from death, left to wander eternally. Dark will again be ours, and in our true shape… We can bury the false legends of yore… Only… Is this our only choice?

Dark will become a curse = the Undead curse
left to wander eternally = I think you (Roarer) are right, everybody is going to end up Undead
in our true shape = either referring to the Undead, or something else, like the serpents
We can bury the false legends of yore = we can take our natural dominance over the Lords and other life forms
Is this our only choice? = (the part that I completely missed when I first played post-Aldia-patch!) suggesting there is an alternative beyond the fates of Light and Dark

---

In Dark Souls, why would the player fight Gwyn before linking the fire? Wouldn't it be in Gwyn's interest to allow the player to link the fire? This is one of my biggest gripes with the series actually - the only verb available to the player is 'kill'. Most of the time, the story supports the player having to face of and defeat every single character she/he meets, but sometimes I wish the game offered other ways of resolving things.

Gwyn is hollow, and he attacks you. There isn't enough of his soul left to keep the Fire going by the time you meet him, and he cannot be reasoned with. All old, glorious things in Dark Souls end up this way. Gwyn's interest was set forth a thousand years ago when he first decided to let himself link the Fire. By having his descendants shepherd humans into lighting themselves, his kind gets to retain their dominance and the Age of Fire with no losses, and because the humans don't know better they will never let Fire go out and become a Dark Lord instead.

There is one option in the game where you can choose not to kill, which is with Priscilla. After all her land is peaceful, and its inhabitants kind. ¯\_(&#12484_/¯
I rather wish there had been an option not to kill Nito personally.

 

[justgames7604]

From what i understood of the lore the curse is from the extension of the age of fire and not from the fire fading. The age of dark is the humans time to rule as humans are the descendants of the pygmy and all have the potential of the chosen undead as they all have a piece of the darksoul.

But i only played the first game.
And half way through the second so i probably dont have it all.

 

[Alebrije]

Thanks OP nice summary, as you I read and try to have a cohesive story and lore about the DS games but sometimes I think Miyazaki has gone to far on the plot hole narrative technique, specially since the lore of the games are so rich and interesting that a lot of us would want to have a solid cohesive story in order to understand it.

There are a lot of plot holes that there is no way to connect them , no matter how far you explore the game or if you get all the DLCs , Miyazaki said that he likes to do it so the player can get its own conclusions but I find this a little sad since DS games have a great story but not a definitive version of it.

 

[Ferr986]

We know that people who chug on too much humanity/darkness get all messed up (see: Oolacile), except for the Dark Lord. The cutscenes for the game have always ended beyond a description of the Age of Dark being really dark (who woulda thunkit) and you getting lots of primordial serpents willing to "serve" you. It's also called the age of man, but Vendrick refers to this as men "taking our true shape", which means that while men may be dominant in the Age of Dark, it may not be in the form or way you expect.

.

Hell, we don't even know if a Dark Lord would end up get messed up. Just look at the Pygmy, if he was supposedly the first Dark Lord.

But yeah even in DS1 I always got the feeling the real state of humanity isn't just what we know.

Basically, the ages stuff can be summarized to "whoever wins, we lose".

Btw

in our true shape = either referring to the Undead, or something else, like the serpents

Speaking by memory but weren't the serpents also called imperfect dragons?