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[alphaNoid]

I have credit cards and credit in general ONLY so I can qualify for loans, for cars or homes. Thats it, credit in general is a goddamn fucking sham otherwise. I spend the money I have and I manage the money I have. I do not use credit lines to pay for things then manage how to pay those lines back at a later time.

I know people who thrive on maximizing credit, more power to them. I got other things in life to worry about than bumping my fico score by 5 points or getting flyer miles.

 

[hiryu]

I'm glad I belong to a credit union and not some shitty bank. Fuck credit cards. I will never own one again. Those assholes can change their terms on a whim and you can't do anything about it.

 

[Wthermans]

Why did a thread about greedy fucking bankers turn into a credit card promotion thread?? How bout u let the people who prefer to use debit use it and instead talk about how greedy these damn bankers are trying to fuck over the common man

It all has to do with risk of fraud. The risk factors are already set in place (and have been for years). If the government wants to cap fees that mediate that risk (such as Interchange fees), the banks are just going to shift those fees elsewhere, otherwise their risk of doing business increases. Wasn't the reason we got into the financial mess in 08 because of bankers approving risky loans?

 

[besada]

Good luck getting that loan with no credit history.

Not nearly as hard as most people think. I'm 41, never had a credit card, and yet I've magically been able to get both car and house loans with little difficulty.

Credit companies would like everyone to believe that it's a requirement to have a credit card to function in the world, but it's simply not true. The fact that everyone believes it is why we have an average credit card debt of more than $14,000 in the U.S.

 

[KHarvey16]

My debit card was fraudulently charged once. Called BoA and they refunded me immediately and sent me a new card. I also get email alerts for suspicious or unusual activity and the card can be shut down if the activity is very suspicious.

Also, what the hell is this about only using one or the other? Responsibly use both like a normal person. You can build credit and still buy groceries on your debit card every week, I promise.

 

[ultron87]

This is so ridiculous. They're just making debit cards inconvenient even though (as far as I know) there is no cost difference to them between transferring 2 dollars or 200 dollars.

(And I use both my credit card and debit card. Shocker, I know.)

 

[Alucrid]

My debit card was fraudulently charged once. Called BoA and they refunded me immediately and sent me a new card. I also get email alerts for suspicious or unusual activity and the card can be shut down if the activity is very suspicious.

Also, what the hell is this about only using one or the other? Responsibly use both like a normal person. You can build credit and still buy groceries on your debit card every week, I promise.

No. One or the other. Choose your side and pick wisely.

 

[gcubed]

Not nearly as hard as most people think. I'm 41, never had a credit card, and yet I've magically been able to get both car and house loans with little difficulty.

Credit companies would like everyone to believe that it's a requirement to have a credit card to function in the world, but it's simply not true. The fact that everyone believes it is why we have an average credit card debt of more than $14,000 in the U.S.

no, its not, quit transferring blame from the people to the system.

 

[Vanillalite]

Actually if your debit card is stolen and you're with a reputable banking institution your fine just like with your credit card. Hell big banks like Bank of America have even run large tv ads that have stated just as such. Most of the smaller banks act the same way now to compete. I don't know where people have gotten this idea if your debit card is stolen that cash is just lost.

Bank of America Debit Security
Wells Fargo Debit Security
Chase Debit Security

Seriously the amount of fucking dumb information being passed around in this thread is SOOO LOLable. It's GAF after all though so why should I expect anything else?

 

[maruchan]

Fuck chase, i closed my account months ago.. Long live credit unions, Im with WSECU and love it no atm fees, and love the idea its non profit... fuck banks..

 

[Wthermans]

I think every credit card company is the same when it comes to chargebacks. Retailer=Fucked in every situation.

If you have a signed sales receipt that matches the cardholder's driver's license (or original credit card application) then a retailer will win most disputes. The thing is most businesses are ran by idiots that don't know how to properly process a credit card and what documents they need to keep in order to protect themselves.

The problem with AMEX in relation to disputes is the time it takes to resolve the issue. AMEX is just slower than the other card associations and/or charge higher fees for their services. The only advantage AMEX brings is that the cardholders tend to spend more than Visa/MC cardholders.

 

[siddx]

Credit cards work for some people, for others it's not a good idea. I'm not sure why some of you are acting like every single person should have a wallet full of credit cards.

I have never owned one and have built my credit just fine. I rarely carry cash, and rely heavily on my debit card. It's been this way for over 10 years, and no horrible calamity has befallen me for using a debit card as my primary form of payment.

 

[Typographenia]

My bank is from this dark place called the Middle East and every time there's a wrong charge on my Visa Electron the bank automatically corrects it without me having to call or contact them in any way.

I even had my wallet stolen three times in the past 15 years traveling around Europe and never had a problem canceling and reissuing a new card on the phone.

Sounds like you need to have your card physically attached to your body!

Spoiler

But seriously, that must have sucked to have it stolen that often.

I know it obviously isn't 100% certain that you're tough out of luck if something happens, but debit accounts seem to have a much less forgiving tendency than credit accounts when it comes to fraudulent spending. Glad you have a great history with yours, though!
My credit union has been really good to me, thus far, and I've managed to avoid having any major issues with my account to this point.

 

[Wthermans]

I'm glad I belong to a credit union and not some shitty bank. Fuck credit cards. I will never own one again. Those assholes can change their terms on a whim and you can't do anything about it.

Guess what. So can Credit Unions.

And you can do something about it.

Find another bank.

 

[Ivan A Nguyen]

It was important to insure the amount of money being spent though high fees when it was just credit cards, but debit cards automatically check the balance of your bank account and deduct it from the account. There does not need to be a fee insuring money that is already there. If the money is not there, then the card is declined. A business should not be charged a fee greater than 5 cents when it comes to these transactions. That would be 1 penny for the electricity (overpaying), 2 cents for the network usage (overpaying by cellphone rates), and 2 cents for the computer time.

 

[Wthermans]

Actually if your debit card is stolen and you're with a reputable banking institution your fine just like with your credit card. Hell big banks like Bank of America have even run large tv ads that have stated just as such. Most of the smaller banks act the same way now to compete. I don't know where people have gotten this idea if your debit card is stolen that cash is just lost.

Bank of America Debit Security
Wells Fargo Debit Security
Chase Debit Security

Seriously the amount of fucking dumb information being passed around in this thread is SOOO LOLable. It's GAF after all though so why should I expect anything else?

Once again, yes more banks and credit unions are offering Debit protection, but this protection usually has a lower cap than credit protection and it can be removed at anytime (such as how the ability to purchase more than $100 could be removed). This is not true with credit.

 

[BloodySinner]

Uh... isn't it better to use money you actually have than money you are being loaned?

Not responsible enough to pay back?

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Actually if your debit card is stolen and you're with a reputable banking institution your fine just like with your credit card. Hell big banks like Bank of America have even run large tv ads that have stated just as such. Most of the smaller banks act the same way now to compete. I don't know where people have gotten this idea if your debit card is stolen that cash is just lost.

Bank of America Debit Security
Wells Fargo Debit Security
Chase Debit Security

Seriously the amount of fucking dumb information being passed around in this thread is SOOO LOLable. It's GAF after all though so why should I expect anything else?

I don't think a single person in this thread has said that fraudulent charges on a debit card mean that cash is gone for good. It's just that typically you will have to run through more hoops to get it back; not always.

 

[krae_man]

If you have a signed sales receipt that matches the cardholder's driver's license (or original credit card application) then a retailer will win most disputes. The thing is most businesses are ran by idiots that don't know how to properly process a credit card and what documents they need to keep in order to protect themselves.

The problem with AMEX in relation to disputes is the time it takes to resolve the issue. AMEX is just slower than the other card associations and/or charge higher fees for their services. The only advantage AMEX brings is that the cardholders tend to spend more than Visa/MC cardholders.

More like 99% of credit card transactions are not in person anymore thus they don't have a signature, thus the retailer is always fucked.

Also, retailers that require a drivers license with matching signature for all credit card purchases will lose customers. That's why most of the time stores only enforce it after getting hit hard with chargebacks and usually end up relaxing the rules after pushback from all customers.

 

[gcubed]

I don't think a single person in this thread has said that fraudulent charges on a debit card mean that cash is gone for good. It's just that typically you will have to run through more hoops to get it back; not always.

and its YOUR MONEY, not a line of credit that has no affect on your daily life for the 24-48 hours it takes to get back.

 

[snackman]

no it's because its almost impossible to pay back credit cards with interest the banks doing this because they dont really have money. You cant pay off credit cards if there really high.

 

[Foxix Von]

Man, I am so glad I joined a credit union.

 

[Wthermans]

More like 99% of credit card transactions are not in person anymore thus they don't have a signature, thus the retailer is always fucked.

Not necessarily. If you have a signed, delivered sales invoice that matches cardholder information (address, signature, etc) and that information was also verified at the time of the authorization, then the retailer will receive funds for that sale. There are a few situations where you'll need other information.

 

[ToxicAdam]

There are plenty of mid-sized banks that will gladly take your business and not put limits on their debit cards. WGAS if some big bank wants to fuck themselves out of customers?


Banks never liked you using debit cards anyways. That's why all their "rewards programs" for using them force you to use them as a credit card to accrue points. They make more money in interchange fees that way.

 

[blamite]

I prefer to use cash for most things, but this is still shitty.

 

[JGS]

lol. jpmorgan

credit union bitches!

It's a stronger possiblity credit unions will do this although I don't think it will happen at all.

Credi unions rely on those little fees to keep costs down just like banks use them to pad profits.

It's a bad bill and I bet it has everything to do with Visa/MC wanting you to use your debit card as a credit since that's how they'll make their revenues. If your debit card has a credit card logo, it will do this, so there will be few issues for the typical consumer, There has been a debit vs. credit feud going on for years now.

The ones out of luck are the ones with pure ATM (Debiting) cards.

 

[Calcaneus]

I do plan on getting a credit card at some point, because it is important. But for now, debit cards are fine. If they start this bs though, I may have to reconsider.

 

[neojubei]

Stop using debit cards...because there's no reason you shouldn't be using credit cards. First post is valid.

why? I'd rather spend from my checking account rather than keep using my credit card.

 

[krae_man]

Not necessarily. If you have a signed, delivered sales invoice that matches cardholder information (address, signature, etc) and that information was also verified at the time of the authorization, then the retailer will receive funds for that sale. There are a few situations where you'll need other information.

Customers won't put up with what's needed to 100% safeguard the merchant in chargeback disputes. Better to just eat the chargebacks and accept the runaround stories(I left my wallet in the car, I'm buying this for my mother for her birthday and I'm using her boyfriends sons credit card because...) at face value.

 

[Vanillalite]

It all has to do with risk of fraud. The risk factors are already set in place (and have been for years). If the government wants to cap fees that mediate that risk (such as Interchange fees), the banks are just going to shift those fees elsewhere, otherwise their risk of doing business increases. Wasn't the reason we got into the financial mess in 08 because of bankers approving risky loans?

There is actually an easier way to help cut down on the risk at least in terms of fraud. Wired had an article on this very subject if I recall. Basically the US was 1st on the up take of card transactions. EU came along later. Supposedly the EU shit is more advance and much more fraud proof, than a lot of the stuff we use in America. People don't want to switch out though because it would be a huge up front cost to credit card companies, banks, and merchants for the promise of a less risky future. Nobody wants to front the cash now to switch out machines

 

[NumberTwo]

I'm a student and I live by my debt card. I still haven't heard a convincing reason as to why I shouldn't.

With an exception to the aforementioned article.

 

[ultron87]

It's a bad bill and I bet it has everything to do with Visa/MC wanting you to use your debit card as a credit since that's how they'll make their revenues. If your debit card has a credit card logo, it will do this, so there will be few issues for the typical consumer, There has been a debit vs. credit feud going on for years now.

What's the actual functional difference to me and to the bank (and to the retailer I guess) if I use my debit card as a credit card besides the fact that I sign something instead of entering a pin number? It still just pulls the money directly out of my checking account.

 

[Keepthechange]

Actually if your debit card is stolen and you're with a reputable banking institution your fine just like with your credit card. Hell big banks like Bank of America have even run large tv ads that have stated just as such. Most of the smaller banks act the same way now to compete. I don't know where people have gotten this idea if your debit card is stolen that cash is just lost.

Bank of America Debit Security
Wells Fargo Debit Security
Chase Debit Security

Seriously the amount of fucking dumb information being passed around in this thread is SOOO LOLable. It's GAF after all though so why should I expect anything else?

I read through the first page, saw it was four pages long and figured that most of bullflop would have been shot-down by now... go figure.

 

[Salz01]

I almost think the banks want to pass it because the consumer is more than likely to use the Credit Card then on higher purchases, and then not want to pay it off right away thus the bank collecting interest.

 

[Kagari]

People, seriously. Stop fucking using debit cards.

No.

I don't carry cash and I don't use credit cards.

 

[VGChampion]

I never knew how many people didn't know how a credit card works. I use my credit card almost exclusively but never spend more than I actually have. No problems here and I've been using them for years.

I'm not saying debit cards are bad, but credit cards are just as fine. If you're only knowledge comes from TV, you need to learn some more about them. They aren't scary.

 

[JGS]

If you have a signed sales receipt that matches the cardholder's driver's license (or original credit card application) then a retailer will win most disputes. The thing is most businesses are ran by idiots that don't know how to properly process a credit card and what documents they need to keep in order to protect themselves.

The problem with AMEX in relation to disputes is the time it takes to resolve the issue. AMEX is just slower than the other card associations and/or charge higher fees for their services. The only advantage AMEX brings is that the cardholders tend to spend more than Visa/MC cardholders.

Retailers are rarely in the hole when it comes to fraudulent transactions. They get tons of slack from the big card companies. The financial institutions oftentimes eat the costs because the merchant did everything expected...which is not much.

The exception is disputes which aren't fraud, but the merchant oftentimes wins those too. We get a lot of disputes and most times it can be verified that the customer just wasn't happy with the purchase so they have to go the normal routes.

What's the actual functional difference to me and to the bank (and to the retailer I guess) if I use my debit card as a credit card besides the fact that I sign something instead of entering a pin number? It still just pulls the money directly out of my checking account.

Technically, there's not one. The bank wants you to use signature based transactions, because the cost falls on the merchant. Merchants, on the other hand, prefer debit transactions because it's far cheaper than the credit ones. This is why you see minmum purchases or some gas stations give a discount for cash/ATM purchases over credit one.

I say err on the side of you bank to avoid any excuses for fee increases.

 

[captmcblack]

To be fair, I've never had to jump through hoops re: my debit card in the event of fraud before.

Years ago when I had WAMU, I had a fraudulent charge on my card - and they called me to tell me about it and void it/return my money instantly. Recently (now Chase) I made a large purchase of > $600 and they called me to ask if it was fraudulent, just to make sure.

I get rewards points/cash back with Chase by making PIN-less/credit purchases, which I take great care to do often. I monitor my purchases individually to make sure they hit the account properly, and I monitor my balance daily (and sometimes even multiple times a day) to make sure I'm not even one cent above my balance. So I prefer to use my debit card - and this stuff I'm reading just pisses me off. They are doing it for no good reason but to find new revenue since it is legally harder to fuck the consumer these days.

I don't spend more than I have, and I like the ability of the debit card to make spending more than I have impossible (especially with so-called "overdraft protection" off) - so I never incur fees. That said, I understand that I can't play the game in America without credit, and to have credit I'll need a credit card. To that end, I'm going to get at least a secured card from Citi or something to make sure my shit gets tight in a year or so.

 

[captive]

some of you don't seem to know anything about anything.

Do some research on offering merchant services for your business(even if you dont own a business).

This is straight copy/paste from a quote i got from Chase bank on accepting credit/debit cards for my business.

Phone in Method: calling 800# and using key pad on phone to process the transaction:

Application Fee: $100.00

Monthly Fee: $9.95

Qualified Discount Rate for Visa/MasterCard and Discover Debit and Credit Cards: 2.37%

Authorization Fee: $0.25

Monthly Minimum: $25.00

So yes, its .25 cents whether i accept a credit card or a debit card. And I get charged 2.37% for the purchase price of the ticket.

Some quotes i got were 44 cents for credit cards and lower for debit cards. Doesn't matter who you go with you'll be charged for each transaction, usually .25-.44 cents. And then the % on the purchase. You need to include in your prices these fees, otherwise you're not making as much as you initially planned.




I prefer to use my debit card for everything, if i don't have the money i don't spend it, credit is more for emergencies. The only reason I see to use a credit card for everything is if you get rewards and are responsible enough to pay it off every month and not spend more than you make. And thats really whats the problem with a lot of people, they use credit as a sort of second income not thinking about the punishments for not paying it off in time.

 

[jmdajr]

Not nearly as hard as most people think. I'm 41, never had a credit card, and yet I've magically been able to get both car and house loans with little difficulty.

Credit companies would like everyone to believe that it's a requirement to have a credit card to function in the world, but it's simply not true. The fact that everyone believes it is why we have an average credit card debt of more than $14,000 in the U.S.

for real. And hey, you can always save your money for stuff you want to buy! I know it's tough getting a house without a loan, but you don't need credit for everything.that's why we are the in the shape we are in.

 

[Vox-Pop]

glad i left chase. worst bank ever. i miss wamu.

 

[jamesinclair]

It's a ludicrous fee, no doubt. Restaurants around here have to pay something like $.26 every time a debit card is swiped. It's forced them to raise prices and only accept debit cards on orders greater than a certain price (usually $10).

Not knowing much about the politics of the situation, it seems to me like some sort of monopoly or price fixing scheme. Surely another company could come around and offer penny transactions and still make a profit. It's just 1s and 0s.....

Even worse, cash users need to subsidize the debit purchasers because the prices are kept the same.

And the article is BS. The "most vulnerable users" dont have debit cards, they pay in cash and are subsidizing those with money in the bank.

Seriously, the article makes it sound like some sob-story for the banks....BUT THEYRE CHARGING 44 CENTS A TRANSACTION! Thats insane!

This is so ridiculous. They're just making debit cards inconvenient even though (as far as I know) there is no cost difference to them between transferring 2 dollars or 200 dollars.

(And I use both my credit card and debit card. Shocker, I know.)

Im guessing the real reason is so your single purchase is broken up into multiple transaction, so they get to charge multiple times.

 

[Warrior_Keoni]

Are all credit unions worth using? I'm considering switching out and opening an account with a military credit union.

 

[Alucrid]

for real. And hey, you can always save your money for stuff you want to buy! I know it's tough getting a house without a loan, but you don't need credit for everything.that's why we are the in the shape we are on.

Not quite...

 

[rSpooky]

Well, as they say often vote with your wallet. If you bank does something like this leave them go to another bank or CU that doesnt limit you,

So far I am with BoA and I have no issues. My pay gets directly deposited and I get access to the money as soon as my boss's bank says they are transferring.. not some 3 days later bs.
70 dollars reserved for 30dollar gas?? no way it is usually 1.

Compromised? Instant block of card, new card, able to go get money at the bank if needed while u wait for the card and refund of stolen money.

If it ever changes for the worse then I will take my business somewhere else.
That said , overall the fees and money tricks done ti squeez money from the customers is insane ..but gotta please the shareholder.

 

[Wthermans]

There is actually an easier way to help cut down on the risk at least in terms of fraud. Wired had an article on this very subject if I recall. Basically the US was 1st on the up take of card transactions. EU came along later. Supposedly the EU shit is more advance and much more fraud proof, than a lot of the stuff we use in America. People don't want to switch out though because it would be a huge up front cost to credit card companies, banks, and merchants for the promise of a less risky future. Nobody wants to front the cash now to switch out machines

Canada is starting to roll this out. The biggest pushback from wanting to roll out the chip cards is from retailers that would have to update all their equipment to a new standard. Most of the banks and processors already have the systems in place and could easily duplicate it for US needs.

 

[ToxicAdam]

I never knew how many people didn't know how a credit card works. I use my credit card almost exclusively but never spend more than I actually have. No problems here and I've been using them for years.

I'm not saying debit cards are bad, but credit cards are just as fine. If you're only knowledge comes from TV, you need to learn some more about them. They aren't scary.

I think the problem is people know exactly how credit cards work and also know themselves. They know that they will wallop you with 20% interest, and 40 dollar fees if you forget a few payments.

A credit card is perfect for people that are meticulous record keepers and pay all their bills on time, but for the other 80% of America, you are going to be late on paying bills some times.

 

[Rad Agast]

Sounds like you need to have your card physically attached to your body!

Spoiler

But seriously, that must have sucked to have it stolen that often.

Hah, I stopped using a wallet after the third time. Some touristy areas in this world are known for pickpockets (all three incidents occurred in Eastern Europe by the way). Whoever stole my wallet in Prague was nice enough to mail all the content minus the cash+wallet to my hotel though.

 

[Stat Flow]

And one more thing, it's especially important for young people to start building credit. If you're older and have a house and car and a secure job, I don't think it really matters, whatever. But for young people that have yet to start working full time and doing big shit in the world (I'm one of them)...I think credit is important. Hell, employers are starting to do credit checks for jobs.

Whether or not you agree with the credit check system stuff is one thing, but the fact that it's happening is another.

Credit is also a barometer of how trustworthy you can be with things like finances. Hence the name.

And yes, credit unions are awesome. Having a credit card with a credit union is also awesome.

 

[Wthermans]

Customers won't put up with what's needed to 100% safeguard the merchant in chargeback disputes. Better to just eat the chargebacks and accept the runaround stories(I left my wallet in the car, I'm buying this for my mother for her birthday and I'm using her boyfriends sons credit card because...) at face value.

Unfortunately, how a merchant processes is up to the owner to choose. If he feels the lost business counters the increased chargeback protection, that is his choice. However, by countering fraud measures the card associations have put in place, he should be prepared to face the penalties of a transaction with higher risk.