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Democratic donors call for Clinton campaign post-mortem

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The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I don't really get the statement that since we thought she would win, we should excuse her for having the hubris to do some dumb fucking shit in hindsight.

Everyone thought she would win, Trump included

That's not to say her campaign didn't make mistakes. They made mistakes. They could have messaged some stuff better. They could have put more work into certain states

But its unclear how much a different campaign would have had a different strategy considering how completely incorrect every single poll was
 

Deadbeat

Banned
Yep. And they'll never look inward. They're STILL deflecting and all of it it bullshit. "Sexism! Bernie! Comey! Deplorables!"

But they'll never say " Hillary was a shit choice."


LOl case in point
Whats great is if the echo chamber continues and nobody ever bothers to learn from their mistakes, trump will have his second term.
 

legacyzero

Banned
...are you freaking kidding?

Hillary Clinton got minority support almost on par with the First Black President. Bernie Sanders responded to BLM by walking off his own stage. Twice.
Versus meeting them with condescension and disrespect like she did? Are you really writing that off?
Whats great is if the echo chamber continues and nobody ever bothers to learn from their mistakes, trump will have his second term.
Absolutely, although I think it's too early to tell if Trump will earn a second term. I wager he's gonna fuck things up big time. But I don't think we'll see another dem candidate win until Democrats stop being corrupt.
 

Odrion

Banned
Everyone thought she would win, Trump included

That's not to say her campaign didn't make mistakes. They made mistakes. They could have messaged some stuff better. They could have put more work into certain states

But its unclear how much a different campaign would have had a different strategy considering how completely incorrect every single poll was
Yes but Trump and us are fucking dumb as fuck. I am assuming she has better political experience and analytical resources than us. If there was anybody who should've been learning from Brexit and trying to make 100% sure that Trump wasn't going to win it should've been her!
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Yes but Trump and us are fucking dumb as fuck. I am assuming she had better political experience and analytical resources than us.

I'm not saying we would have done as badly, I'm saying I wonder if Joe Biden's hypothetical campaign would have had a similar problem analyzing data against Trump
 
I've been aghast at the people saying the Dems should have run a different candidate who was more appealing to them "because minorities would have been highly motivated by fear to turn out for them anyway". I have, no joke, seen at least three people paraphrase that exact argument in the last two weeks alone

How clueless do you have to be to be so entitled that you have to be "enthusiastic" about a candidate but you assume black people will fall in line cause the GOP sucks

Agreed. I think everyone should feel strongly about their candidate - that's part of being a leader - but not at the expense of people who are expected to vote alongside you.
 

Deadbeat

Banned
Versus meeting them with condescension and disrespect like she did? Are you really writing that off?

Absolutely, although I think it's too early to tell if Trump will earn a second term. I wager he's gonna fuck things up big time. But I don't think we'll see another dem candidate win until Democrats stop being corrupt.
I agree that 4 years is a long time and a lot can change. The question will be how smart the republicans handle themselves and how dumb the democrats continue to act. The GOP has a crazy amount of control right now. Trump will have to reel himself in from the off the cuff remarks and rants.

Oh and approve that pipeline ASAP.
This is more of a canadian thing
 

digdug2k

Member
I really think whoever was running this whole thing was just dumb. It makes sense to me during a campaign, you grab the least optimistic models you can and you run with them. Worst-case-scenario shit. Take very poll and assume they're off by 5 points (not in your favor). Once you've got that map down pat, then you start talking about winning red states.

I get the feeling they spent the last 4 years building an expensive, "accurate" model, committed to it, and basically ignored everything else. When they got info that didn't jive with it, they didn't investigate, they just assumed "bad data". Which is sorta understandable. There's lots of bad data out there. But it also just seems like the wrong way to win a campaign. A campaign needs to be in panic "Oh shit we're losing. Everyone work their ass off." mode from start to finish.
 

Odrion

Banned
How clueless do you have to be to be so entitled that you have to be "enthusiastic" about a candidate but you assume black people will fall in line cause the GOP sucks
i mean, "fall in line because the GOP sucks" felt like hillary's campaign slogan at some point

edit:
yqXeD3P.png
 
I wish people here would stop painting identiy politics as being equivalent to Civil Rights when plenty of leftist black communities online complain about Identity Politics as well.
...are you freaking kidding?

Hillary Clinton got minority support almost on par with the First Black President. Bernie Sanders responded to BLM by walking off his own stage. Twice.
Bernie responded to Black Lives Matter by letting the women (who also wouldn't let him speak) say their piece, and still ended up with more Black Lives Matter support than Hillary: https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/04/27/yougov-economist-poll-april-22-26-2016/

Whatever though, Hillary-gaf is stuck in their bubble of Bernie being the big bad racist while literally any racial missteps by Hillary are talked about as if they're fiction and brushed away.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
i mean, "fall in line because the GOP sucks" felt like hillary's campaign slogan at some point

The most legitimate strategic criticism I can level at Clinton is that while her actual platform was jam packed with highly specific progressive proposals on just about every front and they were even the centerpieces of her rallies, they, for some reason, were not also part of her ad campaigns. I do not know why the TV ads were almost exclusively Trump negative and it might have cost them the election. The news also dropped the ball and then kicked the ball into lava on this front though
 

Odrion

Banned
The most legitimate strategic criticism I can level at Clinton is that while her actual platform was jam packed with highly specific progressive proposals on just about every front and they were even the centerpieces of her rallies, they, for some reason, were not also part of her ad campaigns. I do not know why the TV ads were almost exclusively Trump negative and it might have cost them the election. The news also dropped the ball and then kicked the ball into lava on this front though

I know, right?

Now we have people saying that we need to shift center-right. :[

edit: which I assume are clinton supporters because who the fuck else knew what the fucking platform was?
 
Boy, remember how excited we were when we thought Trump was running, and that he'll help dismantle the GOP and Republican party for years to come?
 

cheezcake

Member
I'd be mighty curious how well some people would've taken it if Sanders, not Clinton, went to a historically black church and said "all lives matter"
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I know, right?

Now we have people saying that we need to shift center-right. :[

My other concern is that people are making possibly inaccurate assessments about the real popularity of the "far left" platform pillars they are certain will drive up enthusiasm in 2020. They could very well be right, but I want to see some damn receipts before we get our asses kicked again because it turns out most of the American electorate really fucking hates tax increases no matter how much great stuff you're paying for with them
 

Odrion

Banned
My other concern is that people are making possibly inaccurate assessments about the real popularity of the "far left" platform pillars they are certain will drive up enthusiasm in 2020. They could very well be right, but I want to see some damn receipts before we get our asses kicked again because it turns out most of the American electorate really fucking hates tax increases no matter how much great stuff you're paying for with them

just lie and say the rich are going to pay for all of it!
 

digdug2k

Member
I don't think you understand, Poligaf literally acted as if Bernie was literally a Nazi for the BLM incidents and endlessly cited them as a reason why Bernie was terrible for minorities.
And I just saw someone on here today still trying to classify Bill and Hillary as racists because she called serial gang murderers "super predators" and because they (and Bernie) supported the Federal Crime Bill to try and reduce gang violence.

Rhetoric is high this time of year. Bernie supporter's "They aren't being nice to us!" arguments don't make me any more confident he would have done well in the general.
 

Ha, it's one of the theories going around now since Assange has now said that his sources for the DNC and Podesta emails were not state actors, Russian or otherwise. So the only other possible source has to be an insider.

I made a thread about it because it's a separate thing from this.
 
...are you freaking kidding?

Hillary Clinton got minority support almost on par with the First Black President. Bernie Sanders responded to BLM by walking off his own stage. Twice.

It is interesting that so many minority people throw their support behind the Clintons when, during Bill's presidency, they were responsible for the passage of the policy known as the "3 Strikes You're Out" Bill, which has put an insane number of black males in prison due to the accumulation of what many now would consider minor drug-related offenses.

Here is a CNN article where Bill admits he was largely responsible.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/06/politics/bill-clinton-crime-prisons-hillary-clinton/

The most interesting tidbit from this article is a a quote from Hillary Clinton from a 1994 interview:

As first lady, Clinton helped push the omnibus crime bill in public, calling it a "well-thought out crime bill that is both smart and tough" in a 1994 interview.

She said that the crime bill would keep violent offenders locked up "so they could never get out again" and touted the "three strikes" provision specifically.

"We will finally be able to say, loudly and clearly, that for repeat, violent, criminal offenders: three strikes and you're out. We are tired of putting you back in through the revolving door," Clinton said in 1994.

Interesting how they lumped those with marijuana-related offenses in with those that were actually violent in nature. There are definitely some mental gymnastics going on here when you look at the Clinton's actual historic actions. And maybe it's just because, relative to the Republicans, Democrats in general tend to represent minority issues more and she was the Democratic establishment's "safe" choice. I feel like that is the real reason many back her. And it's quite understandable when there is a lot on the line. But if you are comparing the 2 directly (Bernie and Hillary) based on their actual, historical civil rights work, I don't think it's factually correct to assert Clinton's record being better than Bernie's.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I'm going to say here, as I did elsewhere, that I personally have exactly 0 interest in rehashing arguments over the primary. Discussion of Bernie Sanders that I am interested in is what his role both with the Democratic party and as a general public figure are going forward. Do we have to keep going in circles on this stupid primary bullshit over and over?
 

royalan

Member
You're really asking me for proof when you know how Bernie handled BLM, which I agree could have been way better. But come on- this is horrible

https://youtu.be/v9hogCZKTi8

Despite the fact that she apologized for this incident, that one incident is not the sum total of how Hillary Clinton interacted with the Black community this election.

We could talk about all the campaigning she did in the South.

We could talk about his extensive campaigning with The Mothers of the Movement even after most of the Southern States had voted.

We could talk about how she was the first presidential candidate this year to personally visit Flint, and the only one to do so multiple times.

We could talk about all the support she received among black legislators.

We could talk about how she was the only candidate to explicitly mention white privilege in her stump speech.

We could talk about how she met with BLM more than any other candidate this election.

We'll get a lot of things from this post-mortem. That she ignored black people/BLM/minority issues won't be one of them.

I wish people here would stop painting identiy politics as being equivalent to Civil Rights when plenty of leftist black communities online complain about Identity Politics as well.

Bernie responded to Black Lives Matter by letting the women (who also wouldn't let him speak) say their piece, and still ended up with more Black Lives Matter support than Hillary: https://today.yougov.com/news/2016/04/27/yougov-economist-poll-april-22-26-2016/

Whatever though, Hillary-gaf is stuck in their bubble of Bernie being the big bad racist while literally any racial missteps by Hillary are talked about as if they're fiction and brushed away.

This isn't a poll of Black Lives Matter. That is one poll of "BLM supporters"

Also, nobody in this thread called Bernie a big bad racist or insinuated that he was.
 
Ha, it's one of the theories going around now since Assange has now said that his sources for the DNC and Podesta emails were not state actors, Russian or otherwise. So the only other possible source has to be an insider.

I made a thread about it because it's a separate thing from this.

So in other words Assange said some potential bullshit and you crafted some inside man disgruntled democrat narrative around it and presented it as fact...
 
So in other words Assange said some potential bullshit and you crafted some inside man disgruntled democrat narrative around it and presented it as fact...

Oddly enough no I didn't, but I don't consider the Daily Mail to be a credible source. But take this to the other thread if you really want to pursue this.
 
Oddly enough no I didn't, but I don't consider the Daily Mail to be a credible source. But take this to the other thread if you really want to pursue this.

Great so you just stated things completely unsubstantiated, from a source you don't believe to be credible, as fact, much better then just making it up yourself.
 
I don't think you understand, Poligaf literally acted as if Bernie was literally a Nazi for the BLM incidents and endlessly cited them as a reason why Bernie was terrible for minorities.

The place was generally an intolerable place to question anything related to Yas Queen's candidacy from about June to election day. I quit posting about politics when a defense force for Debbie Wasserman Schultz developed, even after the hacked emails came out. I'd be lying if I didnt feel a sense of vindication when DWS "resigned" her position, then was immediately given another appointment by the Clinton campaign.
 
Despite the fact that she apologized for this incident, that one incident is not the sum total of how Hillary Clinton interacted with the Black community this election.

We could talk about all the campaigning she did in the South.

We could talk about his extensive campaigning with The Mothers of the Movement even after most of the Southern States had voted.

We could talk about how she was the first presidential candidate this year to personally visit Flint, and the only one to do so multiple times.

We could talk about all the support she received among black legislators.

We could talk about how she was the only candidate to explicitly mention white privilege in her stump speech.

We could talk about how she met with BLM more than any other candidate this election.

We'll get a lot of things from this post-mortem. That she ignored black people/BLM/minority issues won't be one of them.



This isn't a poll of Black Lives Matter. That is one poll of "BLM supporters"

Also, nobody in this thread called Bernie a big bad racist or insinuated that he was.
That's what I mean, but I wholeheartedly believe that if you took a similar poll amongst Black Lives Matter activists the results would come out the same.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Ha, it's one of the theories going around now since Assange has now said that his sources for the DNC and Podesta emails were not state actors, Russian or otherwise. So the only other possible source has to be an insider.

I made a thread about it because it's a separate thing from this.

You are trusting Assange?

Bro, you are tripping on some crazy pills.
 
The place was generally an intolerable place to question anything related to Yas Queen's candidacy from about June to election day. I quit posting about politics when a defense force for Debbie Wasserman Schultz developed, even after the hacked emails came out. I'd be lying if I didnt feel a sense of vindication when DWS "resigned" her position, then was immediately given another appointment by the Clinton campaign.

A please fuck off quietly meaningless honourary position solely because she wouldn't leave without it...

Did DWS come up literally anywhere after that? No because it was a fuck off position. She went back to Florida and focused on her congressional primary against a moron who got an influx of cash from Sanders endorsement, despite being awful and incompetent because let's fuck with DWS's congressional seat too. Guess how that turned out?
 
The place was generally an intolerable place to question anything related to Yas Queen's candidacy from about June to election day. I quit posting about politics when a defense force for Debbie Wasserman Schultz developed, even after the hacked emails came out. I'd be lying if I didnt feel a sense of vindication when DWS "resigned" her position, then was immediately given another appointment by the Clinton campaign.
I'm pretty much over the general Hillary stanning during the primary, I got all of my gloating/vindictive emotions out on election night and the day after, I believe we should be past that.
Except in regards to the racial/social justice based attacks on Bernie which as long as they persist I will argue against,I just mentioned the primary behaviorfor a frame of reference.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
...are you freaking kidding?

Hillary Clinton got minority support almost on par with the First Black President. Bernie Sanders responded to BLM by walking off his own stage. Twice.

This is not true, isn't it? At least proportionately, since the minority community in the US actually grew from the times of Obama then compared to Hillary during the election. So even if with a larger base she was beneath Obama, then her performance compared to him could be said as rather lackluster, not "almost on par" which suggested that she was just "slightly" worse.
 

Tarydax

Banned
My personal criticism of Hillary Clinton's campaign is that she ran it in such a way that it was both highly ambitious and safe to the point of being incredibly boring. She made some exciting plays for GOP territory (and the data indicated that those areas were within her reach), but then, for example, she went and chose one of the most boring Vice Presidents possible. I don't doubt that Tim Kaine helped her with Virginia, but she didn't focus on shoring up the support the groups she was weakest with: young people. I wouldn't be surprised if she still would have lost even with a more exciting VP, but maybe it would have been enough to convince young Democrats to get out and vote. She also didn't see warning signs in her loss to Bernie in, say, Michigan. Alarm bells should have been going off.

A VP is supposed to counter some of your own weaknesses; that's why Obama chose Biden. Instead, Hillary went with someone who was too much like her (and not enough like her when it came to debating). Even if he was "America's dad" for a brief time, he just wasn't exciting, and apparently excitement is a requirement for Democrats to come out and vote. It didn't help that Kaine let Mike Pence leave the VP debates with his horrific record on gay rights practically unscathed.

She should have either gone all the way with exciting or all the way with safe.

Clinton spent too much time giving the so-called "moderate" Republicans a way out when she should have been tying them to Trump from the start (which, in hindsight, might have only helped them). She also missed an opportunity to tie Trump to Paul Ryan for his burn-it-to-the-ground approach to Social Security and welfare. She ignored Bill and Biden's warnings about the blue wall areas she was weakest in. They warned her, but Mook and co. didn't listen. I get that neither of them are like magic eight-balls, but even if what they said wasn't backed by hard polling data, they're political veterans. I would have thought that their warnings alone would have been worth looking into.

Also, Americans don't like nerds. If nothing else, we now have proof of that. Hillary, Kerry, Gore, and H. W. Bush all lost to people who at least didn't seem wonky. H. W. was the only wonk out of the lot who won a presidential election.

Finally, she made the enormous mistake of assuming that Americans were as disgusted by Trump's blatant racism as she was. She didn't expect that they would, in the case of white Republicans, turn out in record numbers, or in the case of non-voters, that they wouldn't even vote. She thought people would reject Trump like the did Barry Goldwater, but even Goldwater wasn't that blatantly racist. It turns out that, when confronted with racism, some people will take to it like a fish to water, while others will just let it happen. Honestly, if Trump ever decides to go all the way the the Muslim ban and registry, I expect the same result, especially if there's a major terror attack.

I do think that she would have squeaked by if not for the emails and Comey (the latter of which could have easily been avoided if Obama weren't so interested in bipartisanship with people who hate him). Comey should have been let go after the irregular statement he made the first time. Obama also could have taken a more active interest in the DNC over the years and gotten rid of its incompetent leadership, and maybe we wouldn't be in such a shitty situation in the house and senate.

I tend to blame Obama as much as anyone else at this point because of how often he kicked the can down the road. Hillary warned him years ago that he was never going to gain any real favor with Republicans, but he tried anyway. Now his entire presidency is going to be erased by the very same people who have always hated him so much, and millions are going to suffer in part because of his naive team-of-rivals idealism. He's the ultimate good guy to a fault.

When Republicans go low, Democrats need to be prepared to match them. No more being passive. No more reaching across the aisle when it'll get you nothing to show for it. No more incompetent DNC leadership. No negotiating with white supremacists. And never, ever nominate another nerd ever again.
 

Jumplion

Member
Interesting how they lumped those with marijuana-related offenses in with those that were actually violent in nature. There are definitely some mental gymnastics going on here when you look at the Clinton's actual historic actions. And maybe it's just because, relative to the Republicans, Democrats in general tend to represent minority issues more and she was the Democratic establishment's "safe" choice. I feel like that is the real reason many back her. And it's quite understandable when there is a lot on the line. But if you are comparing the 2 directly (Bernie and Hillary) based on their actual, historical civil rights work, I don't think it's factually correct to assert Clinton's record being better than Bernie's.

You do know Bernie voted for that bill as well? While Clinton fully admits that the bill was a mistake and had problems, Bernie has never apologized and instead excused himself from it because there were other good provisions on it.

Look, I have my reservations on Bernie. He's extremely one-note on "the top .1% of 1%!" as if addressing income inequality will magically fix everything else. Every Bernie supporter I met gives off this sort of resentment towards minorities not voting for him, as if marching with MLK makes black people obligated to vote for him, instead of actively making the case and linking his economic message to how it would help minority concerns. But I like his zeal and enthusiasm, and say what you will, but the fact that a 75 year old Democratic Socialist Jew from Brooklyn got 45% of the primary vote and mobilized a younger base into the political process is something to note. But Bernie, and the Democrats, didn't do enough to get them to stick.

In the end, all I see this infighting doing is further balkanizing left/liberals from each other. As frustrating as it is, and as tempting as it is to keep blaming this or that (and lets be honest, all of the blame is right), it's just going to further alienate supporters that should be with the Democrats in the first place.
 

platakul

Banned
it's weird that the party chose to run a scandal ridden dying person who had no intention of actually campaining anywhere. her brainwashing media drivel was effective tho
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
it's weird that the party chose to run a scandal ridden dying person who had no intention of actually campaining anywhere. her brainwashing media drivel was effective tho

bEAMDgl.png


Also, dying person? Really?
 
You do know Bernie voted for that bill as well? While Clinton fully admits that the bill was a mistake and had problems, Bernie has never apologized and instead excused himself from it because there were other good provisions on it.

Look, I have my reservations on Bernie. He's extremely one-note on "the top .1% of 1%!" as if addressing income inequality will magically fix everything else. Every Bernie supporter I met gives off this sort of resentment towards minorities not voting for him, as if marching with MLK makes black people obligated to vote for him, instead of actively making the case and linking his economic message to how it would help minority concerns. But I like his zeal and enthusiasm, and say what you will, but the fact that a 75 year old Democratic Socialist Jew from Brooklyn got 45% of the primary vote and mobilized a younger base into the political process is something to note. But Bernie, and the Democrats, didn't do enough to get them to stick.

In the end, all I see this infighting doing is further balkanizing left/liberals from each other. As frustrating as it is, and as tempting as it is to keep blaming this or that (and lets be honest, all of the blame is right), it's just going to further alienate supporters that should be with the Democrats in the first place.
Bernie gave a passionate speech against the crime bill, and gave "intersectional" reasons as to why the bill would harm black Americans more than any other race (which is funng because Gaf constantly attacked him for not being "intersectional" enough).
Of course I believe that Bernie should have sat it out, and I also believe that being from Vermont meant Bernie had much less pressure than Hillary to vote for the bill which meant he could grandstand as he did, hence why I don't hold it against Clinton as much as others (not that Clinton had a vote, but she was integral in the bill).
The only time I bring it up is when Gaf-posters try to white wash Hillary while excessively slandering Bernie on race.

I'll agree with you on the resentment thing, not along racial lines though, because you can check black areas like thecoli, lipstick alley, certain facebook groups, /r/blackfellas, my facebook friendslist, other mesaageboards, plus more, and see that same bitterness at black voters for the election of Clinton throughout the primary and beyond, just like they did with every other group they believe didn't vote right or vote at all.
People are naturally going to be bitter against those who don't vote alongside them when tensions are high, wasn't this the case in 08 as well?

Bernie made his case for his "economic message"(I don't buy that there was ever a moment where his message was any less tailored for minorities than any group, not do I believe there's somehow some separation between "economics" and the two) and minorities, and that's why he stayed younger folks and many black leftist groups.
 
Bernie isn't just a populist. He's a populist with a loooong history of doing and fighting for good things. But people put blinders on to him because of superficial reasons, identity politics, blind support, etc etc. I was baffled during the entire election season because people would literally hear none of it.

I kept saying it- people wanted non-establishment. They were going to get it. And Hill is as establishment as they come.

People wanted anti-establishment with a side of racism and xenophobia.
 

guek

Banned
My personal criticism of Hillary Clinton's campaign is that she ran it in such a way that it was both highly ambitious and safe to the point of being incredibly boring. She made some exciting plays for GOP territory (and the data indicated that those areas were within her reach), but then, for example, she went and chose one of the most boring Vice President possible. I don't doubt that Tim Kaine helped her with Virginia, but she didn't focus on shoring up the support the groups she was weakest with: young people. I wouldn't be surprised if she still would have lost even with a more exciting VP, but maybe it would have been enough to convince young Democrats to get out and vote. She also didn't see warning signs in her loss to Bernie in, say, Michigan. Alarm bells should have been going off.

A VP is supposed to shore up your own weaknesses; that's why Obama chose Biden. Instead, Hillary went with someone who was too much like her (and not enough like her when it came to debating). Even if he was "America's dad" for a brief time, he just wasn't exciting, and apparently excitement is a requirement for Democrats to come out and vote. It didn't help that Kaine let Mike Pence leave the VP debates with his horrific record on gay rights practically unscathed.

She should have either gone all the way with exciting or all the way with safe.

Clinton spent too much time giving the so-called "moderate" Republicans a way out when she should have been tying them to Trump from the start (which, in hindsight, might have only helped them). She also missed an opportunity to tie Trump to Paul Ryan for his burn-it-to-the-ground approach to Social Security and welfare. She ignored Bill and Biden's warnings about the blue wall areas she was weakest in. They warned her, but Mook and co. didn't listen. I get that neither of them are like magic eight-balls, but even if what they said wasn't backed by hard polling data, they're political veterans. I would have thought that their warnings alone would have been worth looking into.

Also, Americans don't like nerds. If nothing else, we now have proof of that. Hillary, Kerry, Gore, and H. W. Bush all lost to people who at least didn't seem wonky. H. W. was the only wonk out of the lot who won a presidential election.

Finally, she made the enormous mistake of assuming that Americans were as disgusted by Trump's blatant racism as she was. She didn't expect that they would, in the case of white Republicans, turn out in record numbers, or in the case of non-voters, that they wouldn't even vote. She thought people would reject Trump like the did Barry Goldwater, but even Goldwater wasn't that blatantly racist. It turns out that, when confronted with racism, some people will take to it like a fish to water, while others will just let it happen. Honestly, if Trump ever decides to go all the way the the Muslim ban and registry, I expect the same result, especially if there's a major terror attack.

I do think that she would have squeaked by if not for the emails and Comey (the latter of which could have easily been avoided if Obama weren't so interested in bipartisanship with people who hate him). Comey should have been let go after the irregular statement he made the first time. Obama also could have taken a more active interest in the DNC over the years and gotten rid of its incompetent leadership, and maybe we wouldn't be in such a shitty situation in the house and senate.

I tend to blame Obama as much as anyone else at this point because of how often he kicked the can down the road. Hillary warned him years ago that he was never going to gain any real favor with Republicans, but he tried anyway. Now his entire presidency is going to be erased by the very same people who have always hated him so much, and millions are going to suffer in part because of his naive team-of-rivals idealism. He's the ultimate good guy to a fault.

When Republicans go low, Democrats need to be prepared to match them. No more being passive. No more reaching across the aisle when it'll get you nothing to show for it. No more incompetent DNC leadership. No negotiating with white supremacists. And never, ever nominate another nerd ever again.
This is a well reasoned collection of thoughts and criticisms.
 
People wanted anti-establishment with a side of racism and xenophobia.

Populism and nativism often comes part and parcel with racism and xenophobia.

But if you fail to understand how and why populist movements sweep people into power at certain points of history, you are simply dooming yourself to repeating the same mistakes forever. Brexit could have been avoided. Trump could have been avoided. Let's see if Le Pen can be avoided too.
 

Eila

Member
I want to say that I heard everywhere that both candidates were bad and shouldn't be running. A whole lot of apathy. I imagine this is why a lot of people didn't bother voting.
 
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