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[JayFro]

Regardless of how many people died in Vietnam, we lost that fight... and we're not getting much headway in Iraq and Afghanistan, the war we had every obligation to win, is a complete mess now.

A complete mess? From what the media tells you, how else do you handle it at this point? As a country we've been in far worse situations, this is nothing compared to what's happened in the past. We just live in a hyper sensitive politically correct society that IMO is completely bogus and fluff.

 

[Hitokage]

As far as horny guys and stupid girls, with the number of sexual instances and content on television and sex ed programs in school if you can't figure out to wear a condom or take other precautions would it really be that much to ask for adoption if you didn't want the baby?

Depends on the individual. Carrying the pregnancy to term might not be a viable option.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

I don't think he picked for his daughter to become a homosexual, the argument you are trying to make doesn't make any sense.


Our troops are dying? Is this where you compare this to Vietman where we actually lost a large number of troops? We've lost 1,000+ troops, now go look up how many troops we lost in Vietnam and tell me were losing troops right and left. The number of troops we've lost up to this point is more than understandable when you consider the time and situation in Iraq. Most of the other points you make aren't worth responding to, I don't really think you understand morals and standards in the traditional way. What you equate those things with and what I equate those things with are on two completely different levels. Social security? What a joke, go look up the history of social security and what it was actually supposed to be used for and come back and make that argument.

The argument he is making makes perfect sense. He preaches intolerance of homosexuals the world over, seeks to legislate in such fashion, but can tolerate and love his own daughter being one? It's called big, stinky hypocrisy.

As for your "low deaths" argument, go and look up how many soldiers we lost in the Gulf War. Technological advancements have allowed us to cutback on the number of deaths in modern warfare. Relatively speaking, it seems the War in Iraq has a shitload of deaths so far.

 

[Hitokage]

A complete mess? From what the media tells you, how else do you handle it at this point? As a country we've been in far worse situations, this is nothing compared to what's happened in the past. We just live in a hyper sensitive politically correct society that IMO is completely bogus and fluff.

How is a country that's mostly ruled by warlords and is witness to the reemergence of the Taliban NOT a complete mess? I'm not talking body count here, I'm talking basic objectives.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

How is a country that's mostly ruled by warlords and is witness to the reemergence of the Taliban NOT a complete mess?

Because he's not bloodied up here at home I guess. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[JayFro]

Depends on the individual. Carrying the pregnancy to term might not be a viable option.

If it's not a viable option for medical reasons terminate, but in most cases it me me me, and how can I take the easy way out? Why deny it?

 

[JayFro]

Because he's not bloodied up here at home I guess. Out of sight, out of mind.

I have a 1st cousin in Iraq, don't try it.

 

[Hitokage]

If it's not a viable option for medical reasons terminate, but in most cases it me me me, and how can I take the easy way out? Why deny it?

Because when you're talking about banning a procedure outright you're using them as an excuse to shaft everyone who had a legitimate reason.

 

[JayFro]

How is a country that's mostly ruled by warlords and is witness to the reemergence of the Taliban NOT a complete mess? I'm not talking body count here, I'm talking basic objectives.

Shit happens, if everything went smooth all the time it would be a peachy sun shiny country wouldn't it? It's easy to pick at things when you want to find them, had Kerry been elected and taken over operations it would be the same situation in many instances.

 

[JayFro]

Because when you're talking about banning a procedure outright you're using them as an excuse to shaft everyone who had a legitimate reason.

And I never said ban abortion, my stance is my stance and those who have legitimate reasons are few and far between. You are using a minute percentage of those having it done to justify it for those who have multiple abortions because they can't take the time to buy a condom.

 

[Hitokage]

And I never said ban abortion, my stance is my stance and those who have legitimate reasons are few and far between. You are using a minute percentage of those having it done to justify it for those who have multiple abortions because they can't take the time to buy a condom.

I'm justifying the right for the mother to choose, not the prospects of quick and easy abortions.

 

[Umpteen]

Shit happens, if everything went smooth all the time it would be a peachy sun shiny country wouldn't it? It's easy to pick at things when you want to find them, had Kerry been elected and taken over operations it would be the same situation in many instances.

Do you believe Kerry, if elected, would brush off people's questions about the (lack of) capture of Osama with "To be honest, I don't think about him that much. I just don't think about him." ?

Hey, you told us he killed 2k Americans, GWB. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THINK ABOUT HIM.
DEAD OR ALIVE!! I HEAR YOU!! THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD HEAR YOU!! THE PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT DOWN THESE BUILDINGS WILL HEAR ALL OF US!

 

[Hitokage]

Do you believe Kerry, if elected, would brush off people's questions about the (lack of) capture of Osama with "To be honest, I don't think about him that much. I just don't think about him." ?

Hey, you told us he killed 2k Americans, GWB. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THINK ABOUT HIM.
DEAD OR ALIVE!! I HEAR YOU!! THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD HEAR YOU!! THE PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT DOWN THESE BUILDINGS WILL HEAR ALL OF US!

HEY, I THINK ABOUT IRAQ. I THINK ABOUT IRAQ EVERY SINGLE DAY.

 

[silver]

If Clinton is chosen as the Dems candidate, I think she will win no matter what.

 

[Umpteen]

:lol

Did you know something like half the people in this country believe Iraq "bombed us' on 9/11?

Makes you want to cry inside.

 

[Diablos]

I don't think he picked for his daughter to become a homosexual, the argument you are trying to make doesn't make any sense.

Of course it does. Cheney loves his daughter, thinks she's a wonderful human being, blah blah blah. He's told everyone this. If he represented upholding family values - respecting your family, loving your family - then Dick Cheney surely would have openly admitted to not agreeing with Bush's stance on gay marriage. Or, at least, he would have been dissatisfied with the way Bush went about preaching to the choir and undecided voters about it. If you were gay and heard the way Bush and other Republicans inspired by Bush would ramble on about gay marriage, that would definitely have to hurt.

Our troops are dying? Is this where you compare this to Vietman where we actually lost a large number of troops? We've lost 1,000+ troops, now go look up how many troops we lost in Vietnam and tell me were losing troops right and left. The number of troops we've lost up to this point is more than understandable when you consider the time and situation in Iraq.

It would be understandable if this war was something that we actually needed to protect ourselves. We did not need this war. 1,000+ troops lost for a cause that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever is a lot of lives lost. ONE life lost to a senseless agenda is too high. And that's the difference between lives being lost in war that we needed to fight, and a war that we do not need to fight. Sure, more lives were lost in Vietnam, but that should not be the benchmark for lives lost in any given war. And keep in mind, this war in Iraq is not over yet. There are different circumstances, and in this case, there was absolutely no reason whatsoever for invading Iraq. Bush created a huge problem, and we're going to hear about the mistakes that will continue to develop from it for the rest of our lives. Democracy in Iraq will never work. Bush said Iraq was a breeding ground for terrorists? It is now, more than ever before.

Most of the other points you make aren't worth responding to, I don't really think you understand morals and standards in the traditional way. What you equate those things with and what I equate those things with are on two completely different levels. Social security? What a joke, go look up the history of social security and what it was actually supposed to be used for and come back and make that argument.

You're crazy. Everything I said to you is very clear. Chewing Kerry out for not being "moral" in the right-wing's sense is RIDICULOUS. What's so immoral for not playing God and realizing there are different people in this country, some of them homosexuals that want to get married? He didn't run up to a group of homosexuals and give them a big hug and a kiss. He simply said this is an issue that one person can't push on a society. How you associate this way of thinking as being immoral is immoral in itself.

This war is not moral, and that's an argument that I notice you will not instantly shoot down. So assuming you are right about Kerry's stance on abortion and gay marriage for just a few seconds here, immoral decisions and poor standards associated with this war is more of an atrocity than abortion and gay marriage issues could ever be. PEOPLE ARE DYING. And for what? Nothing. No good damn reason. The youth of this country is facing death's door every day in Iraq. It's not worth dying over. A lot of Republicans have said "how can you be against the war but support abortion?" To that I say, how can you be pro-life but also support the war? It goes both ways.

Oh yeah, Sal makes a good point about technological advancements. It's 2005. Vietnam was a long, long time ago. If Vietnam occured today, the death count would be significantly lower.

Doesn't change the fact that Vietnam and the Iraq war are both big huge messes.

 

[sprsk]

HEY, I THINK ABOUT IRAQ. I THINK ABOUT IRAQ EVERY SINGLE DAY.

And im going to continue to think about iraq, for a very long time.

 

[APF]

The VP's daughter is a lesbian and her father admits to loving her. A VP that supports everything George W. Bush has done. Does this seem moral to you? How can you support a man that works with someone that denounced gay marriage... but also be the father of someone who is a homosexual and find absolutely nothing wrong with that person?

Cheney's daughter also worked on their campaign, so I don't understand your shocked, shocked, reaction here. Kerry's position on gay marriage wasn't so far away from Bush's: he appeared to want states to oppose it individually, while Bush meekly agreed with a Constitutional amendment ("to avoid judicial activism") everyone knew was going nowhere. OMG THE HYPOCRISY. Most people in America are against gay marriage as an institution, but will probably support some sort of similar legal partnership/civil union, and both candidates seemed fine with that.

 

[Umpteen]

It's funny, there is no mention of abortion or gay marriage in the constitution, but there is a whole LOT of separation of church and state.

Dig this little gem.

"In 1797 our government concluded a "Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, or Barbary," now known simply as the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 of the treaty contains these words:

As the Government of the United States...is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion--

This document was endorsed by Secretary of State Timothy Pickering and President John Adams. It was then sent to the Senate for ratification; the vote was unanimous. It is worth pointing out that although this was the 339th time a recorded vote had been required by the Senate, it was only the third unanimous vote in the Senate's history. There is no record of debate or dissent."

Please, (this is an open cry to all Christians, not personal on this board!) PLEASE stop trying to pervert our country into something it was never meant to be. Also, if it is not too much to ask, do something to help the poor. Having read the bible cover to cover, I can say there is a LOT of talk about helping those less fortunate, and little to no mention of things like minority rights and abortion. This country has real problems, stop letting charlatans distract you.

 

[JayFro]

This board is about as pro democratic as it get's, in other words the people that post about these things don't represent American society by any means. I can see why Republicans don't bother posting on these forums, it's pointless when the hive attacks. I'm also not a Christian, so don't attempt to categorize me as such.

 

[Ruzbeh]

HEY, I THINK ABOUT IRAQ. I THINK ABOUT IRAQ EVERY SINGLE DAY.

EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. :lol :lol :lol

 

[Mr. Blonde]

It's gonna be Hillary/Obama and they're going to beat Rudi.

It'd be nice if the Governor from Montana, Brian Schweitzer, were to run. But that's a pipedream of mine.

Anyway, who in 2001 thought John Kerry had a snowballs chance in hell of winning the nomination? Basically, it's too early to tell. :gay

A lot of people..he was one of the early front-runners back then.

 

[Umpteen]

This board is about as pro democratic as it get's, in other words the people that post about these things don't represent American society by any means. I can see why Republicans don't bother posting on these forums, it's pointless when LOGIC attacks. I'm out.

Fixed.

 

[JayFro]

Fixed.

Killing babies is logical, very logical in a selfish me me me society.

 

[JayFro]

And you people wonder why you keep losing elections.............look in the mirror. The majority doesn't want what you want. Please put Hilary up for election, the result will be a landslide victory for the republicans and y'all can bitch about if for another 4 years.

The youth of this country is facing death's door every day in Iraq

Oh the horror, oh the agony! You get the drama queen quote of the day on this one. My cousin is apparently facing deaths's door right now, but ya know what? He's proud to be in Iraq and proud to be serving his country. If you think having Saddam in power was good for this country or any other I really feel for you, I don't understand how you think removing him is such a bad thing.

 

[Diablos]

This board is about as pro democratic as it get's, in other words the people that post about these things don't represent American society by any means. I can see why Republicans don't bother posting on these forums, it's pointless when the hive attacks. I'm also not a Christian, so don't attempt to categorize me as such.

What we're saying will make a lot of sense to you, someday. Please, explain to me, what's so wrong with everything I told you? There are problems in this country that need taken care of. They could have very well been taken care of. But what stood in the way? A fear of gay marriage? Abortion, which is still legal anyway? Yeah. Those stood in the way. And now we have a clown in office until January of 2009, and issues that will continue to be ignored by this arrogant administration.

GAF isn't arrogant, GAF is paying attention to the real issues the country is facing. And you'll notice that more people are starting to get turned off by the arrogance demonstrated by so many Republicans; Rick Santorum's pretty much screwing himself, and slowly but surely disapproval for the war is climbing...

By 2008, people will want a change. All the Democrats have to do is find someone who can sharpen the message.

By the way, I don't want Hillary to run because of what you just said, JayFro.

Oh the horror, oh the agony! You get the drama queen quote of the day on this one. My cousin is apparently facing deaths's door right now, but ya know what? He's proud to be in Iraq and proud to be serving his country. If you think having Saddam in power was good for his country or any other I really feel for you, I don't understand how you think removing him is such a bad thing.

But the intention to attack Iraq was to protect the world from terror, above all else. Believe it or not, Iraq was less of a swarm for terrorists than it is today. It's getting out of control. I admire your cousin's bravery, but at the same time feel bad that he has been mislead by the Bush administration.

 

[Umpteen]

The majority doesn't want what you want.

Actually, recent polls show that the overwhelming majority of Americans want roe v. wade upheld.

Pew Research Poll
"Do you want to see Roe v. Wade overturned?"
63% said NO

AP Poll
"Should Bush nominate someone to the Supreme Court who will uphold or overturn Roe v. Wade?"
Uphold 61%
Overturn 34%

This might also help.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=majority

 

[fart]

This board is about as pro democratic as it get's, in other words the people that post about these things don't represent American society by any means. I can see why Republicans don't bother posting on these forums, it's pointless when the hive attacks.

no one's stopping you from posting here you fucking tard. the "hive" isn't attacking you, there are just a few reasonable individuals who are pointing out the massive holes in your arguments and demonstrating to you, via relatively solid chains of logic, why your points are bunk. it's not their fucking fault that you can't put two thoughts together.

that's right, it's not them, it's you, and if you bothered to think for like two seconds, you might see that.

please note that there are plenty of conflicting viewpoints on these forums. i realize that you have trouble reading, but if you can spend some time practicing your abc's, you might see that as well.

 

[JayFro]

Actually, recent polls show that the overwhelming majority of Americans want roe v. wade upheld.

Pew Research Poll
"Do you want to see Roe v. Wade overturned?"
63% said NO

AP Poll
"Should Bush nominate someone to the Supreme Court who will uphold or overturn Roe v. Wade?"
Uphold 61%
Overturn 34%

This might also help.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=majority

I guess you couldn't understand, the majority wanted a Rupublican not a democrat but I could see how you could get confused. Try again later.

 

[JayFro]

no one's stopping you from posting here you fucking tard. the "hive" isn't attacking you, there are just a few reasonable individuals who are pointing out the massive holes in your arguments and demonstrating to you, via relatively solid chains of logic, why your points are bunk. it's not their fucking fault that you can't put two thoughts together.

that's right, it's not them, it's you, and if you bothered to think for like two seconds, you might see that.

Fucking tard is the first sign of intelligence in that post. Is it even worth responding to someone with the name FART? If this is the quality of individual who votes demo you guys need a ton of help in the next election. Sooooooooooo angry............... :lol :lol :lol

 

[Umpteen]

Man, you should take a deep breath and figure out what you are trying to argue. Your posts are losing cohesiveness.

ABANDON SHIP!!!

 

[fart]

sorry, i'm really tired of being gracious to idiots.

 

[JayFro]

Man, you should take a deep breath and figure out what you are trying to argue. Your posts are losing cohesiveness.

ABANDON SHIP!!!

Well when it's 5 6 or 7 on 1 it's a bit tough to keep up at times.

 

[JayFro]

sorry, i'm really tired of being gracious to idiots.

If it makes you feel better to keep insulting someone you don't know on a message board on Saturday afternoon............by all means..............keep going. People like you are the main reason a Republican is president, and we all know you despise that. Unlike you, I won't get angry I try to let things roll right off my back. On the other hand you probably won't be able to calm down for a couple more hours.

 

[fart]

here is an idea then: stop posting bullshit every five seconds, sit down, reason through your argument, and come back and post something detailed and coherent when you have it all figured out.

 

[Diablos]

I guess you couldn't understand, the majority wanted a Rupublican not a democrat but I could see how you could get confused. Try again later.

The "majority" you speak of is a 2 fucking percent lead over Kerry. OH WOW.

 

[JayFro]

The "majority" you speak of is a 2 fucking percent lead over Kerry. OH WOW.

So it's a majority right? Let me try the demo approach..............LOGIC. Maybe you guys are turning me in to a demo right now........

 

[Mercury Fred]

Well when it's 5 6 or 7 on 1 it's a bit tough to keep up at times.

That's ok, you have morality and your selfless hero patriot cousin on your side.

 

[Diablos]

Yes, technically it is. But it's nothing to brag about. Two percent, dude. That can easily be taken back in 2008 if the Democrats make the right decisions, and I'm confident that they will.

 

[JayFro]

here is an idea then: stop posting bullshit every five seconds, sit down, reason through your argument, and come back and post something detailed and coherent when you have it all figured out.

It's pointless, it will all get ripped to shreds by angry chaps like yourself.

 

[JayFro]

Yes, technically it is. But it's nothing to brag about. Two percent, dude. That can easily be taken back in 2008 if the Democrats make the right decisions, and I'm confident that they will.

I'm not bragging, I'm just stating a fact. In the 2004 election the majority of Americans wanted a Republican as president, the fact that it angers so many of you this much is rather scary and hardcore demos like yourselves scare off other people from voting demo. You do more harm than good for the party you choose.

 

[JayFro]

That's ok, you have morality and your selfless hero patriot cousin on your side.

And you still haven't said anything wothwhile in this whole thread, but thanks for contributing.


I'm going back to the gaming forum, I didn't realize how anal most of you are, it's like dealing with rabid Nintendo fans. Good luck with that.

 

[Umpteen]

Yes, the majority of people voted Bush in for his second term. (He did not win a majority vote in the first one, but that is neither here nor there)

You were arguing abortion, then you switched to the election. You have to pick a venue, cross posting arguments and attempting deflections does nothing for your credibility as a debater.

I edited to insert logic:
"Killing babies is logical, very logical in a selfish me me me society."
"The majority doesn't want what you want"
JayFro's Avatar

#129
Originally Posted by Umpteen:
Actually, recent polls show that the overwhelming majority of Americans want roe v. wade upheld.

Pew Research Poll
"Do you want to see Roe v. Wade overturned?"
63% said NO

AP Poll
"Should Bush nominate someone to the Supreme Court who will uphold or overturn Roe v. Wade?"
Uphold 61%
Overturn 34%

This might also help.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=majority



I guess you couldn't understand, the majority wanted a Rupublican not a democrat but I could see how you could get confused. Try again later."

You can't argue both these things at once, the truth of the two matters is different.

 

[JayFro]

Yes, the majority of people voted Bush in for his second term. (He did not win a majority vote in the first one, but that is neither here nor there)

You were arguing abortion, then you switched to the election. You have to pick a venue, cross posting arguments and attempting deflections does nothing for your credibility as a debater.

I edited to insert logic:
"Killing babies is logical, very logical in a selfish me me me society."
"The majority doesn't want what you want"
JayFro's Avatar

#129
Originally Posted by Umpteen:
Actually, recent polls show that the overwhelming majority of Americans want roe v. wade upheld.

Pew Research Poll
"Do you want to see Roe v. Wade overturned?"
63% said NO

AP Poll
"Should Bush nominate someone to the Supreme Court who will uphold or overturn Roe v. Wade?"
Uphold 61%
Overturn 34%

This might also help.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=majority



I guess you couldn't understand, the majority wanted a Rupublican not a democrat but I could see how you could get confused. Try again later."

You can't argue both these things at once, the truth of the two matters is different.

As I said before, it's quite difficult to focus on one thing when you have multiple people coming at you on different things. Try it sometime, let's see how well you do.

 

[Incognito]

Rudy? Winning the Republican primaries, much less one?

:lol :lol :lol :lol

If anything, he'll be a VP pick as to not scare all the independent/moderate voters who'll no doubt cringe at the next right-wing freakazoid: George Allen.

 

[Diablos]

I'm not bragging, I'm just stating a fact. In the 2004 election the majority of Americans wanted a Republican as president, the fact that it angers so many of you this much is rather scary and hardcore demos like yourselves scare off other people from voting demo. You do more harm than good for the party you choose.

Oh, I'm SCARING people now? How can I be SCARING people? I'm listing reasons for why the war does not make sense, why the Republicans' tactics do not make sense, and expressing deep concern for the future of my country's political, social and religious state.

Bush and co. were full of scare tactics during the election campaign. If anyone's scaring and intimidating the American people, it's Republicans more than Democrats.

 

[Mercury Fred]

And you still haven't said anything wothwhile in this whole thread, but thanks for contributing.

Right, aside from poking holes in your sweeping generalizations about a woman's right to choose.

I'm going back to the gaming forum, I didn't realize how anal most of you are, it's like dealing with rabid Nintendo fans.

Please come back any time to ramble incoherently and be subsequently ripped to shreds.

 

[Incognito]

I remember when the Republicans cried and bitched about John Kerry playing the "scare the vote" game when he predicted(correctly, mind you) that if Bush were reelected, he's first order of business would be to overhaul and privatize social security(btw, good of the Dems to finally stand in unison to that crock of garbage). These drones were crying for weeks about it, regardless of the fact that even on the official Bush/Cheney website, "personal accounts" were listed as one of the campaign themes.

 

[JayFro]

Oh, I'm SCARING people now? How can I be SCARING people? I'm listing reasons for why the war does not make sense, why the Republicans' tactics do not make sense, and expressing deep concern for the future of my country's political, social and religious state.

Bush and co. were full of scare tactics during the election campaign. If anyone's scaring and intimidating the American people, it's Republicans more than Democrats.

I don't think you get what I'm getting at. People like those who post on message boards do more harm than good while they think they are actually helping the party they choose to support. These types of people scare off others from a similar viewpoint because they either get soooo angry or try to slam a viewpoint down said persons throat for the upteenth time. The hardcore and or extreme in this case cost said party votes by being so in your face and or passionate about the subject. I've been witness to other threads where one republican attempts to defend themselves against the army of demos at gaming age and it's a pointless situation. For that I should have simply known better than to open my mouth, but sometimes that urge to speak up takes over and you end up in the thick of it anyway.

 

[JayFro]

Right, aside from poking holes in your sweeping generalizations about a woman's right to choose.


Please come back any time to ramble incoherently and be subsequently ripped to shreds.

Oh please, what arguments were those. My stance on abortion is simple, legal in cases of medical harm to the mother, rape, and incest. Otherwise it's illegal, it's my opinion and I'm more than entitled to it. The fact that so many of you are so morally bankrupt is just a reflection of where American society is headed in general. Down the toilet.