Denver furry convention canceled: Unpaid taxes, neo-Nazism, and sex offender

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Nerfgun said:
Again I say, no, people should not be shitty to each other, of course. Ignorant? Man, tell me about all the subclasses of every fandom out there. C'mon, you can google it. Of course they "can be ignorant"; it's not an interest for them! But you can perhaps explain it better than what comes up on a Google search, which we both know probably won't be flattering, right?
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So yet again, because people don't know any better or won't know any better that is just free reign to say shitty stuff? Not too mention the first links for stuff like furries on Google is a Wikipedia page which I'm sure most Internet users are familiar with and can navigate to learn more.

Nerfgun said:
Discussion. I'll leave you to it now, though. I was addressing... hang on...



.. I was addressing the haughty quip of "surely they should understand the difference between otherkin and furries" and I was pointing out that, no, to a great many people, they are one and the same, which explains at least some of the reaction, since much the furry fandom itself seems to share that opinion about otherkin.

I wish you furries a good afternoon, don't let the man get you down. Please don't think I have a low opinion of furries, I don't. I think they can get a little bubble-reinforced and defensive because they eat a lot of shit, of course. But its your lifestyle. If that is the word.
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Dude for someone trying to be understanding and all that this post is incredibly condescending and willfully ignorant.
 
Nerfgun said:
I was addressing the haughty quip of "surely they should understand the difference between otherkin and furries" and I was pointing out that, no, to a great many people, they are one and the same,
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Someone was exasperated that easily-refuted assumptions were being constantly toted as fact as a result of understood frustration with the ignorance that precedes our reputation. You told them we should just deal forever. What a "haughty quip" that needed to be "addressed."

Nerfgun said:
which explains at least some of the reaction, since much the furry fandom itself seems to share that opinion about otherkin.
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Lol where?

Nerfgun said:
But its your lifestyle. If that is the word.
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It ain't, but thanks for playing.
 
HStallion said:
So yet again, because people don't know any better or won't know any better that is just free reign to say shitty stuff? Not too mention the first links for stuff like furries on Google is a Wikipedia page which I'm sure most Internet users are familiar with and can navigate to learn more.



Dude for someone trying to be understanding and all that this post is incredibly condescending and willfully ignorant.
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You are assuming people *want* to learn more about furries. They don't. Most people don't give a shit. They're going to see "people in a convention center dressed as cartoon animals" and think "that's weird as shit." That's probably going to never change.

Maybe that's harsh, but cmon. Let's have real expectations here.
 
2Smashed4U said:
You are assuming people *want* to learn more about furries. They don't. Most people don't give a shit. They're going to see "people in a convention center dressed as cartoon animals" and think "that's weird as shit." That's probably going to never change.

Maybe that's harsh, but cmon. Let's have real expectations here.
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I think the problem is the initial assumption is disgust or to just blanket call all of them weirdos.

You shouldn't have to learn to not be an asshole and prejudge without any knowledge.
 
2Smashed4U said:
You are assuming people *want* to learn more about furries. They don't. Most people don't give a shit. They're going to see "people in a convention center dressed as cartoon animals" and think "that's weird as shit." That's probably going to never change.

Maybe that's harsh, but cmon. Let's have real expectations here.
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True, but those same people don't usually come into forum threads with the express purpose of correcting furries that their perspective of the fandom is incorrect because society at large holds an incorrect perspective about it.
 
2Smashed4U said:
You are assuming people *want* to learn more about furries. They don't. Most people don't give a shit. They're going to see "people in a convention center dressed as cartoon animals" and think "that's weird as shit." That's probably going to never change.

Maybe that's harsh, but cmon. Let's have real expectations here.
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If you want to call us weirdos from afar, or even up close, that's fine.

If you want to call us all sexual degenerates or mentally ill, and then have the nerve to claim we have no sense of humor when we rebuke these claims or even just get a bit annoyed, don't get mad when you get clapped back on.

Let's have real expectations here.
 
Akronis said:
I think the problem is the initial assumption is disgust or to just blanket call all of them weirdos.

You shouldn't have to learn to not be an asshole and prejudge without any knowledge.
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Well, yes no arguments here

IMGF said:
True, but those same people don't usually come into forum threads with the express purpose of correcting furries that their perspective of the fandom is incorrect because society at large holds an incorrect perspective about it.
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True, I didn't know if we're talking "general public" here or "average poster", I would actually expect someone who spends a fair time on the internet to have a better idea yeah

Nepenthe said:
If you want to call us weirdos from afar, or even up close, that's fine.

If you want to call us all sexual degenerates or mentally ill, and then have the nerve to claim we have no sense of humor when we rebuke these claims or even just get a bit annoyed, don't get mad when you get clapped back on.

Let's have real expectations here.
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Yeah that's definitely shitty
 
Holy crap, some of you get way too upset about the whole furry thing,

I don't understand the appeal of furry stuff, but who gives a crap what people do for fun as long as they're not hurting any one. Yeah it's a little weird, but most nerdy hobbies are if you really think about them (even most normal ones are too, but most people don't).
Like if someone was really into robots, and they like shows and movies with robots, and did cool cosplays of robot characters, then most people would be fine with that, but if you replace robot with cartoon animals then holy crap oh noes.
(though robots > animals. That's objective fact :p )

I've never really understood why furries are considered the bottom of the barrel as far as internet nerds. I've seen way way worse fandoms out there
 
Ryan_MSF said:
Furry convention

can't say i'm surprised.
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Honestly, I actually am when it comes to the hate. Every open furry I have met have been some of the coolest people I know, accepting of minorities of all walks of life, even going as far to offer financial support to those in need. Many of them are well off -- fur suits aren't cheap afterall -- yet remain humble in my personal experience.

Years ago (2010-11 iirc), I had a friend who got really into the furry scene after meeting one at Ohayocon (anime con). He began hanging out with a large group of about 30 of them regularly, going to the biggest American furry cons (Anthrocon I believe is the name of the biggest he went to) and, outside of a few awkward conversations turning into unwanted sexual advances, it was all good.

In fact, I remember a particular story he told me when he got back from Anthrocon I found hard to believe. He apparently lost his $3,000 DLSR at the con due to druken stupidity. Apparently dozens of furries at said con worked together to return the camera back to him. He was on an elevator taking the most depressing ride to his hotel room when a guy got on and was like, "hey man you lost this."

My friend is black, didn't and still doesn't identify as furry, yet was accepted fully into a predominantly white furry community.

Anecdotes aside, this shit bums me out. Furries are the one group I never felt bad pretty much blanket defending because of the overwhelmingly positive experiences I've had and heard from others.

Like this: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1603768
 
NoblesseOblige said:
What about furry robots? Or robot furries. Anthroids if you will.
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I'll allow robot animals, but only if they combine.

Edit: Or if they're these guys. :p

Beastwarsmaxgroup.jpg
 
stuff like mlp, fnaf and undertale are simply training grounds for recruiting people into the DERANGED AND SICK furry underworld

everyone make sure your kids are safe
 
IMGF said:
True, but those same people don't usually come into forum threads with the express purpose of correcting furries that their perspective of the fandom is incorrect because society at large holds an incorrect perspective about it.
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Hey, listen - honestly, I'm sorry if I've pissed you off. Maybe I didn't use the best words. I do have opinions on fandoms. But I also did try to go out of my way in every post to explain that I don't believe these folks deserve to be shat upon. My core message was that it might be a little ... presumptuous to assume that everyone will understand the nuances, and that people in these fandoms - despite having to endure unreasonable ridicule way too often - are not immune to all criticism.

Sorry for any stress. I'm more confused by the reaction than anything else.
 
How big of a fucking moron do you have to be to think being a Nazi furry is a good idea? Like, the cognitive dissonance involved there is off the charts. Hitler would have had your non-conforming furry ass in front for the gas chamber line, bud.
 
Again, the person who asked "How many times do we have to reiterate this?" was probably expressing frustration at the confusion and ostracization that exists between Furries and more mainstream outlets, not asking a literal question about when the public is going to magically wisen up about something they don't give a shit about beyond the occasional potshot.

Answering that we'll have to reiterate this "forever," explaining why we should deal forever, and that if we're annoyed by this to any degree then, well, we lack a sense of humor, doesn't entirely come across as anything less than being intolerable towards a group of people who have more right than most fandoms to get frustrated at ignorance and general fuckery.

We don't expect people to understand all of the nuances of the fandom. But we expect at least a modicum of effort in engaging with us if you're going to bother talking to us.
 
Nepenthe said:
Again, the person who asked "How many times do we have to reiterate this?" was probably expressing frustration at the confusion and ostracization that exists between Furries and more mainstream outlets, not asking a literal question about when the public is going to magically wisen up about something they don't give a shit about beyond the occasional potshot.

Answering that we'll have to reiterate this "forever," explaining why we should deal forever, and that if we're annoyed by this to any degree then, well, we lack a sense of humor, doesn't entirely come across as anything less than being intolerable towards a group of people who have more right than most fandoms to get frustrated at ignorance and general fuckery.

We don't expect people to understand all of the nuances of the fandom. But we expect at least a modicum of effort in engaging with us if you're going to bother talking to us.
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I understand. I was sort of asking the same thing in the other direction; i.e. that modicum of effort needs to exist on both sides, with the proviso that the furries will always have to explain, since the behavior associated with the fandom is the thing that is much more unusual. I mean that in the most neutral way possible, simply rarefied. But I hear you.
 
Nerfgun said:
I understand. I was sort of asking the same thing in the other direction; i.e. that modicum of effort needs to exist on both sides, with the proviso that the furries will always have to explain, since the behavior associated with the fandom is the thing that is much more unusual. I mean that in the most neutral way possible, simply rarefied. But I hear you.
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Understood. Although remember, the last thread about this incident was full of people who asked questions sincerely without any backhanded compliments, and it eventually turned into a highly positive thread of information sharing and some good back and forths. We get complaints that- on the occasions we get a genuinely curious passerby- that we're actually way too passionate about the whole thing and can be pushy when explaining.

We like sharing what the fandom is about because, if nothing else, all of the misconceptions make it exciting to clear the air and expose people to things that have genuine artistic and entertainment value, such as the dance comps. It's an opportunity to change someone's mind. It's hard to approach that with the same enthusiasm if people engage in conversations with what is or can be misconstrued as a dismissive attitude.
 
Nepenthe said:
Understood. Although remember, the last thread about this incident was full of people who asked questions sincerely without any backhanded compliments, and it eventually turned into a highly positive thread of information sharing and some good back and forths. We get complaints that- on the occasions we get a genuinely curious passerby- that we're actually way too passionate about the whole thing and can be pushy when explaining.

We like sharing what the fandom is about because, if nothing else, all of the misconceptions make it exciting to clear the air and expose people to things that have genuine artistic and entertainment value, such as the dance comps. It's an opportunity to change someone's mind. It's hard to approach that with the same enthusiasm if people engage in conversations with what is or can be misconstrued as a dismissive attitude.
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Thanks. I don't know if I saw that other thread. I need to work on tone control. ;)

I am a big, big believer in No Harm, No Foul. So I have no problem with furry stuff at all.

I wish we had different fonts for different tones online. So much conveyance gets lost in text.

So lets actually get back to the OP - what are the actual ramifications when there is an "invading group" in the fandom like this nazi asshole? like how do you deal with that when they make so much noise online? Do they circle the wagons and cast them out, or what? is there actual Furry Outreach organization happening?

I feel like the sexual angle is the thing that fucks with this sort of fan base. Why the comparisons to cosplayers and such don't really hold because no one implicitly associates sexual "deviancy" with dressing up like Master Chief or even Cortana, at least not as a baseline reaction. I don't know how you deal with that, honestly. Other than exposure, but who apart from actual fans will get that properly?
 
Nerfgun said:
So lets actually get back to the OP - what are the actual ramifications when there is an "invading group" in the fandom like this nazi asshole? like how do you deal with that when they make so much noise online? Do they circle the wagons and cast them out, or what? is there actual Furry Outreach organization happening?

I feel like the sexual angle is the thing that fucks with this sort of fan base. Why the comparisons to cosplayers and such don't really hold because no one implicitly associates sexual "deviancy" with dressing up like Master Chief or even Cortana, at least not as a baseline reaction. I don't know how you deal with that, honestly. Other than exposure, but who apart from actual fans will get that properly?
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The general consensus it seems is to get rid of the Nazis by making them feel very unwelcome everywhere they go. I can't imagine any type of actual violence happening between a group that exists mostly behind keyboards and the people who actually spend money to go to cons. There's some overlap between the two occasionally, like with RMFC last year, but even then nothing happened other than some very intense glaring at each other from what I understand. But at this point, someone could definitely get punched with how things have escalated this past year.

That perception isn't the fandom's fault. Most of it stems from that stupid CSI episode that aired over a decade ago and that Vanity Fair smear job. The only way the fandom deals with it is by continuing to tell people that the fandom is primarily interested in being part of like minded peers who have a fondness for the same thing, like any other fandom. Yes, there are sexual aspects to it (a ton of sexual aspects really) but it is an adult fandom of people mostly in their 20s and 30s, of course there's some overlap between enjoying the performance aspect/creative works of the fandom and obtaining sexual enjoyment from it as well. That being said, the sex element is not the only defining element of furries. There are many different interests involved here, focusing in on just one aspect because it's sexual ignores everything else about the fandom. But even if you want to focus on the one thing, again, I mentioned this is a place for LGBTQ+ folks to feel safe and be among other people they can trust to experiment with. There's more than just one thing going on when it comes to the sexuality of the fandom.
 
Nerfgun said:
Thanks. I don't know if I saw that other thread. I need to work on tone control. ;)

I am a big, big believer in No Harm, No Foul. So I have no problem with furry stuff at all.

I wish we had different fonts for different tones online. So much conveyance gets lost in text.
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It's cool dude. All water off a duck's back- pun intended this time. xP

Nerfgun said:
So lets actually get back to the OP - what are the actual ramifications when there is an "invading group" in the fandom like this nazi asshole? like how do you deal with that when they make so much noise online? Do they circle the wagons and cast them out, or what? is there actual Furry Outreach organization happening?
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Call outs, ostracization, and bans from events are what we do for Nazi scum, as well as people sympathetic to Nazi scum (That "They're human too!" "So much for the tolerant left crap" gets no play). It's a community filled with a higher than average ratio of LGBT people and ethnic minorities. We don't play that shit.

Nerfgun said:
I feel like the sexual angle is the thing that fucks with this sort of fan base. Why the comparisons to cosplayers and such don't really hold because no one implicitly associates sexual "deviancy" with dressing up like Master Chief or even Cortana, at least not as a baseline reaction. I don't know how you deal with that, honestly. Other than exposure, but who apart from actual fans will get that properly?
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It doesn't come to mind because other cosplay communities didn't have a shitty media campaign in the 90s directly linking their hobby to sexual deviancy in the minds of an unsuspecting public so they get away with it, even when they're dressing in skimpy outfits from some video game, comic, or anime that were deliberately created for sexual objectification if not outright porn (Seriously, I can't be the only one onto the irony that anime fans- fans of an industry with corporately supported pornographic material, sometimes of underage people and minors- get less guff for being sexual deviants than Furries do). Dem's them brakes. Nothing we can do now except make a big joke out of it.
 
Prost said:
How big of a fucking moron do you have to be to think being a Nazi furry is a good idea? Like, the cognitive dissonance involved there is off the charts. Hitler would have had your non-conforming furry ass in front for the gas chamber line, bud.
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I'm putting on my pseudo-psychologist hat here, but there's definitely a reason why the alt-right has found such fertile ground in so many sub-cultures. A lot of sexual sub-cultures end up attracting a lot of fairly shitty people who think of themselves as loners or outcasts or whatever and they've networked with other "non-conformists" over the years until the movements hit critical mass and coalesced into your favorite GG-anime loving-furry neo-nazi. People who are drawn into the alt-right seem to usually feel like they are outsiders in a cultural sense and resent the attention that demographic minorities get.

There are a lot of predatory creeps in the BDSM scene but fortunately a lot of those communities have gotten good at policing themselves to weed out the worst of the worst. The furry community was already getting pretty toxic when I bailed a decade ago so I'm not surprised to see things have gotten worse.
 
UCBooties said:
I'm putting on my pseudo-psychologist hat here, but there's definitely a reason why the alt-right has found such fertile ground in so many sub-cultures. A lot of sexual sub-cultures end up attracting a lot of fairly shitty people who think of themselves as loners or outcasts or whatever and they've networked with other "non-conformists" over the years until the movements hit critical mass and coalesced into your favorite GG-anime loving-furry neo-nazi. People who are drawn into the alt-right seem to usually feel like they are outsiders in a cultural sense and resent the attention that demographic minorities get.

There are a lot of predatory creeps in the BDSM scene but fortunately a lot of those communities have gotten good at policing themselves to weed out the worst of the worst. The furry community was already getting pretty toxic when I bailed a decade ago so I'm not surprised to see things have gotten worse.
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Pretty much this. Good post.
 
UCBooties said:
There are a lot of predatory creeps in the BDSM scene but fortunately a lot of those communities have gotten good at policing themselves to weed out the worst of the worst. The furry community was already getting pretty toxic when I bailed a decade ago so I'm not surprised to see things have gotten worse.
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It was a real creepy time for the kink community after 50 Shades of Gray blew up and a lot of dudes took it as their cue to start trying to "dom" random women because they're submissive and bull shit like that.
 
IMGF said:
The general consensus it seems is to get rid of the Nazis by making them feel very unwelcome everywhere they go. I can't imagine any type of actual violence happening between a group that exists mostly behind keyboards and the people who actually spend money to go to cons. There's some overlap between the two occasionally, like with RMFC last year, but even then nothing happened other than some very intense glaring at each other from what I understand. But at this point, someone could definitely get punched with how things have escalated this past year.
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"Don't worry, Donnie. These men are cowards." I'd tend to agree. Keyboard warriors.

That perception isn't the fandom's fault. Most of it stems from that stupid CSI episode that aired over a decade ago and that Vanity Fair smear job. The only way the fandom deals with it is by continuing to tell people that the fandom is primarily interested in being part of like minded peers who have a fondness for the same thing, like any other fandom. Yes, there are sexual aspects to it (a ton of sexual aspects really) but it is an adult fandom of people mostly in their 20s and 30s, of course there's some overlap between enjoying the performance aspect/creative works of the fandom and obtaining sexual enjoyment from it as well. That being said, the sex element is not the only defining element of furries. There are many different interests involved here, focusing in on just one aspect because it's sexual ignores everything else about the fandom. But even if you want to focus on the one thing, again, I mentioned this is a place for LGBTQ+ folks to feel safe and be among other people they can trust to experiment with. There's more than just one thing going on when it comes to the sexuality of the fandom.
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You know I'm tempted to walk back what I said before about cosplayers not really being implicitly associated with sexual acts because of course there is a fucking ton of cosplay based porn out there (I am reminded of the Overwatch thread). So it can't even be that.

I do think it's fascinating that you have actually traced back what you believe to be the inflection points - a CSI episode, a Vanity Fair article - I am curious but I don't want to actually go looking, can you give me a summary of what happened there? Because I do think these "nodes" can ripple out for decades, much like what happened with cannabis in the 40s/50s.

Nepenthe said:
It's cool dude. All water off a duck's back- pun intended this time. xP
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If I had to pick, i'd be a duck. Total land, air, water superiority

Call outs, ostracization, and bans from events are what we do for Nazi scum, as well as people sympathetic to Nazi scum (That "They're human too!" "So much for the tolerant left crap" gets no play). It's a community filled with a higher than average ratio of LGBT people and ethnic minorities. We don't play that shit.
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Call them precious snowflakes, they love that.

I'm fascinated how the group can form "white blood cells" like this. Auto-selecting too. I should have been an anthropologist.

It doesn't come to mind because other cosplay communities didn't have a shitty media campaign in the 90s directly linking their hobby to sexual deviancy in the minds of an unsuspecting public so they get away with it, even when they're dressing in skimpy outfits from some video game, comic, or anime that were deliberately created for sexual objectification if not outright porn (Seriously, I can't be the only one onto the irony that anime fans- fans of an industry with corporately supported pornographic material, sometimes of underage people and minors- get less guff for being sexual deviants than Furries do). Dem's them brakes. Nothing we can do now except make a big joke out of it.
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Very very good point about anime.

Would you point to the same references mentioned up there a bit - specifically the CSI episode and a Vanity Fair article? Are these known touchstones?

sorry for all the questions but you folks seem to know your shit.
 
roytheone said:
Don't get me wrong, I understand this sucks and that posting porn (or linking to it without any clear warning) has no place in this forum, but the thought of you playing zelda, enjoying yourself, and then hearing the Kass music and basically going like this:

1243594993_cupcakedog-war-flashbacks.gif


kinda cracks me up ;)
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Hahahahaha I'll be honest, it makes me laugh whenever I hear him in the distance playing that tune
 
Simon Belmont said:
If you are a furry you have literally no business looking down on anybody. Absolute bottom rung.

I'm sorry you missed out on your yiffing.
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Mr. Belmont, I believe you are mistaken.

There is absolutely nothing "bottom rung" about a fandom where everything from the costumes to the artwork are essentially DIY. Many convention goers are actually pretty friendly and really talented. And not only that, many of these conventions help sponsor and raise money for a local humane society or shelter. This subcultures give a social outlet to people who otherwise don't have very many, so it's always a shame when events are cancelled thanks to racist idiots like in the OP.

And seriously, there's way more to cons than sex. I went to my first con this year, and I learned a ton about various geek stuff, art techniques, and cosplay tutorials. Please think before you speak.
 
Nerfgun said:
If I had to pick, i'd be a duck. Total land, air, water superiority
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We need more birds anyway. I have a lyrebird character. Be a duck and let's show those elitist mammals who's boss. We were dinosaurs once!!!

Nerfgun said:
Call them precious snowflakes, they love that.

I'm fascinated how the group can form "white blood cells" like this. Auto-selecting too. I should have been an anthropologist.
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It's a pure defense mechanism. xD We don't want to get any more shit, and deliberately hosting Nazis is one way to do that.

Nerfgun said:
Very very good point about anime.

Would you point to the same references mentioned up there a bit - specifically the CSI episode and a Vanity Fair article? Are these known touchstones?

sorry for all the questions but you folks seem to know your shit.
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The CSI Episode is THE thing that ruined everything. Tyra Bank's show and the Vanity Fair article were just extra blows at the dead horse. The horse was already decomposing by the time self-righteous nerds found out about the weirder online communities and created memes like the "Yiff in Hell" thing.

However, due to things like its nature as a safe space for minorities, the prominence of the LGBT community in politics in general, the shifting Internet landscape from creation-based content (fan art, fanfiction, personal websites) to more personality-based content (social media platforms), the showcase of more impressive arts like dance, and simplified, inclusive definitions of what a Furry is ("A person who participates in the art subculture surrounding animals") Furry is secretly this cool little thing that is as much of an in-joke and big ol' party as it is a genuinely rewarding social sphere for its members and entrepreneurs. Now is the absolute best time to get into it if anyone's so inclined. I honestly don't know how people stomached the 90s era.
 
The furries I got to know on GAF are some of the loveliest people, painting fans of anthro art with a wide idiot brush is just ignorant and willfully mean.
 
Nepenthe said:
I honestly don't know how people stomached the 90s era.
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This is actually an interesting bit since from what I've seen, the fandom back then was very homophobic and was very much more just a straight kink fandom that spawned off the sci-fi convention community. It's kind of incredible how it grew, and changed itself to become a fandom that's known for its large percentage of LGBT+ folk and how it works to be as inclusive and open for minority demographics to have a place where they're accepted without judgment. It's not perfect in all those areas by any stretch of the definition, but it's definitely grown a lot I'd say in the last ten years or so in terms of progressiveness, much to the chagrin of the old furry guard I'll add.
 
How About No said:
But Foxler never used chemical weapons at his own conventions tho (or wait he doesn't have the diaper guy on his side right???)
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I'm not making any claims about who did this, but on chemical weapons at conventions:

"Furries convention interrupted by chlorine gas that sickens 19 people"

"The source of the gas was apparently chlorine powder left in a ninth-floor stairwell at the Hyatt Regency O’Hare, according to the Rosemont public safety department. Investigators believe the gas was created intentionally and are treating it as a criminal matter."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/07/furries-convention-chlorine-gas-sickens-19-people
 
Aarglefarg said:
I'm not making any claims about who did this, but on chemical weapons at conventions:

"Furries convention interrupted by chlorine gas that sickens 19 people"

"The source of the gas was apparently chlorine powder left in a ninth-floor stairwell at the Hyatt Regency O’Hare, according to the Rosemont public safety department. Investigators believe the gas was created intentionally and are treating it as a criminal matter."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/07/furries-convention-chlorine-gas-sickens-19-people
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My buddy was actually at this event when it happened. Was absolutely insane.
 
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