Destiny Lore & Spoilers: Shakespeare it ain't
- Thread starter Bizazedo
- Start date
I just finished the game's 'story' and I have to say this is the most contrived and shoddy story i've seen in a long time. So many questions and no answers, the game gives you a pretty basic and somewhat generic introduction in the beginning about 'the darkness' wanting to take over earth and the traveler, but we don't get to know anything about our enemies, the humans in the last city or the traveler in the end.
There are basically no characters relevant in the story, the exo woman got relatively a lot of exposition and it went nowhere, she did nothing and we didn't get to know anything about her. If she have a big role in Destiny 2, they could've easily just cut her form this game and introduced her in the sequel, she comes of as a red herring looking back. There are no real antagonist(s) or any sort of motif exposition, your enemies are just mindless monsters and robots in the end. All we get to know through ghost is that they mine planets for resources and want to kill us humans because of the traveler for some reason.
I have a hard time thinking that even a novice storywriter worked on this, i'm sure people in this very thread could come up with a more inspiring and thought out story... what the fuck, Bungie?
There are basically no characters relevant in the story, the exo woman got relatively a lot of exposition and it went nowhere, she did nothing and we didn't get to know anything about her. If she have a big role in Destiny 2, they could've easily just cut her form this game and introduced her in the sequel, she comes of as a red herring looking back. There are no real antagonist(s) or any sort of motif exposition, your enemies are just mindless monsters and robots in the end. All we get to know through ghost is that they mine planets for resources and want to kill us humans because of the traveler for some reason.
I have a hard time thinking that even a novice storywriter worked on this, i'm sure people in this very thread could come up with a more inspiring and thought out story... what the fuck, Bungie?
Poodlestrike
Banned
I'm seriously considering doing a top-down rewrite of the story, just for the lulz. I'm 99 percent sure I could do a better job while keeping the individual plot points intact.
I don't think the story is that bad, the exposure is, I was reading destinypedia and it is actually interesting, many things that were not explained in game, wasted opportunities to make this right.
I could describe this like making a bad movie from a good book, not that the story is Don Quijote, but you get the idea.
I could describe this like making a bad movie from a good book, not that the story is Don Quijote, but you get the idea.
It would be very difficult to write a worse story. I mean, it would actually make a tough competition to see who could write worse dialogue and plot points.
JetBlackPanda
Member
I don't hate the story (lol story) its more of a side quest. I do think that there is A LOT more to the stranger and her time traveling. Who is talking to her on the intercom asking if "we" are there. Who is attacking her when she says "spin up the engines and make sure nobody sees you" something like that.
it really feels like a pilot episode of an episodic series.
it really feels like a pilot episode of an episodic series.
Melchiah
Member
Agreed. Although I wish the pilot would have had a bit meatier campaign, eventhough I didn't expect anything earth-shattering from its story. I'm not fond of the idea of paying a premium price for a pilot, and then 15-20 for each following episode.
The main problem I have with the game isn't related to the story, but how it favors PvP, and even locks most of the vendors out of reach if you only like to play PvE missions. The looting was handled far better in something like ME3 multiplayer, where two 20-30min. gold matches gave you enough credits for a premium chest, which often contained some rare gear. It's ridiculous, that I still haven't gotten a single exotic or legendary gear in Destiny after several hours of post-campaign missions behind. I think I'm about done with the game, as it doesn't feel rewarding at all after you complete the campaign.
XANDER CAGE
Member
The first Halo has:
-A beginning, middle, and end
-A clear goal for the protagonists
-A clearly defined antagonizing force
-A mystery that is eventually revealed that introduces another antagonistic force as well as providing motivation for the previously established antagonists
-Characters that make key choices that move the story forward
-An ending that leaves many threads open, but at the very least sees the protagonists accomplishing their original goal
Like, yeah, Halo isn't exactly Citizen Kane but it's miles better than Destiny. Destiny barely even has the basic threads of a story.
UnlovedJew
Member
Hit the nail on the thread. It even gameplay-wise FEELS like you're progressing to an epic conclusion.
It wasn't so much the story being great as it was narrative and gameplay intertwining to create a certain feeling within the player. The soundtrack was used to great effect as well.
A lot of the questions people seem to have in the first few pages are actually answered in game.
For instance "if we had ftl travel why did we stay in the solar system?". We didnt. The archive mission mentions pathways to other galaxies that humanity used in the past.
Or "why if I'm an Awoken do the Awoken at the reef act all hostile towards me". Because you're a centuries out dead awoken who is a guardian and loyal the earth.
What is "the darkness"? It's not just the various races. In fact it almost seems like it's an actual force. Maybe not even a military force, almost like a damper and there's a bubble around the solar system centered around the traveler.
I could probably flesh out a ton of lore for a story from the tidbits we've been given and the storytelling style they've used.
For instance "if we had ftl travel why did we stay in the solar system?". We didnt. The archive mission mentions pathways to other galaxies that humanity used in the past.
Or "why if I'm an Awoken do the Awoken at the reef act all hostile towards me". Because you're a centuries out dead awoken who is a guardian and loyal the earth.
What is "the darkness"? It's not just the various races. In fact it almost seems like it's an actual force. Maybe not even a military force, almost like a damper and there's a bubble around the solar system centered around the traveler.
I could probably flesh out a ton of lore for a story from the tidbits we've been given and the storytelling style they've used.
Destiny hits all of these points as well. You can argue the effectiveness, but that's not exactly the point. Good or bad is subjective, and it's pretty clear that the main story quests in the game are all coherent plot points that lead to one another while the side story quests are small tangents of lore and world building.
Melchiah
Member
There's no end to Destiny's story yet, and there was some mystery involved with the Vex. I've played the first Halo through twice on PC, few years after its original release, and I've never really understood all the fuss about its story. It was as inconsequential to me as most of FPS stories. Destiny's story would have felt more tangible, if it had also concentrated on the SP campaign and delivered all the story pieces in-game, instead of the Grimoire cards. Even as it is, I still don't see a massive difference in the depth of storytelling.
EDIT:
I thought the Halo ending was pretty unrewarding as well, the ending cinematic certainly didn't feel epic to me. Everything just explodes, and...
I guess games are judged more harshly these days, and Destiny's story might have been criticized less back in the day.
GringoSuave89
Banned
Name me a major antagonist that's not a nebulous force or faction. There are the Fallen House leaders and whatnot, but they have no narrative.
Are they any more nebulous than The Covenant from Halo CE? Why can't a nebulous force be a good antagonist?
Shin-Ra isn't an antagonist?
The Reapers aren't antagonists?
It doesn't matter if there's no real narrative to the antagonists for the story being given. It's generic fantasy: They are bad because they are bad. We are good because we are good.
There are also narratives to the Vex and to the Hive segments of the game, the former being major players in the "end game" plot of Destiny as is.
GringoSuave89
Banned
Each example has some kind of Antagonist with a story arc.
The Prophets /The Arbiter/Tartarus
The Turks
The individual Reaper from ME1, and the Leviathan DLC for ME3
Chaos2Frozen
Member
But those didn't show up until the sequel.
Everyone was perfectly happy with mindless Floods and Covenants and Sentinels.
I'm confused why the Awoken queen's brother was such a dick....for no apparent reason. Also did I miss it or was the Russian Warmind plot thing just kind of left behind at some point?
I think the stranger was a projection of the Traveler. Seemed most likely given the way it ends.
After Halo i was expecting a lot more. It feels like they threw us into this story halfway through and didn't give us a 'last week on Destiny' brief to open it up.
I think the stranger was a projection of the Traveler. Seemed most likely given the way it ends.
After Halo i was expecting a lot more. It feels like they threw us into this story halfway through and didn't give us a 'last week on Destiny' brief to open it up.
The in-game story was terrible/non-existant, but the grimoire cards are great. The Ghost fragments are Epic. For example, here's one of my favorites, The fragment for hunter:
She leaves the Sparrow and climbs a long way across spars of volcano rock and between vents of blue fire. Down below the Ishtar ruins spark with skirmish light but the guns seem as distant and brief as the constant starfall and the brooding crater high above. She is alone on the rock. She goes on with her head down so as to fight the sense that she is going to fall up off the world and burn like an inverse meteor.
The message that brought her to this place had no sign but she could hear Cayde in it. Draksis in the Cinders it said. Is it true?
And also: Remember your promise.
At dawn she finds a sentry and kills it with her knife. Its throat bleeds gas. She takes its post and lays out her bullets one by one on the rock as if to make a count of all the years she has been waiting. Her rifle is near as long as she is tall. She lies down by her bullets and uses them to kill the other sentries one by one until at last they understand the thunder and the Shanks rise up angry from the Cinders below to seek her out.
She leaves the rifle and walks across the naked obsidian into the swarm firing from the hip as she goes, each kick of the old revolver a word, Draksis, Draksis, Kell of Winter, Kell of hate, lord of the kingdom of her vendetta. Her jaw aches. She used to imagine biting out his throat with armored teeth.
The stone smokes around her where the arc fire lashes it and the shrapnel guns throw up leaves of obsidian like glass butterflies. She shoots her bandoliers dry and a team of Vandals in glassy stealth leap up to rush her with knives but she raises her hand and burns them down with the golden gun, laughing, crying out Draksis, Draksis, I am come!
She kills them all and takes the next ridge, high above the Cinders. She can see the blue-green pools and the cave mouths where the Vex lights dance. And there among them, gowned in smoke and ash, is the long shark shape of a Ketch, a Wintership, the Kell's ship, come down to nest.
She could go down there now and finish this. But she made a promise.
A Captain jumps her. She throws two knives into his armor and then staves his chest in with her own Ghost, wrapped up in her fist like a stone.
"Tell the Vanguard," she says to her Ether-spattered fist. "Tell them Draksis is here."
Her Ghost looks up at her in silence. When she makes no move to go down the cliff towards the ship it blinks once, in its own way, and makes a soft sound, like a sigh, like relief.
She leaves the Sparrow and climbs a long way across spars of volcano rock and between vents of blue fire. Down below the Ishtar ruins spark with skirmish light but the guns seem as distant and brief as the constant starfall and the brooding crater high above. She is alone on the rock. She goes on with her head down so as to fight the sense that she is going to fall up off the world and burn like an inverse meteor.
The message that brought her to this place had no sign but she could hear Cayde in it. Draksis in the Cinders it said. Is it true?
And also: Remember your promise.
At dawn she finds a sentry and kills it with her knife. Its throat bleeds gas. She takes its post and lays out her bullets one by one on the rock as if to make a count of all the years she has been waiting. Her rifle is near as long as she is tall. She lies down by her bullets and uses them to kill the other sentries one by one until at last they understand the thunder and the Shanks rise up angry from the Cinders below to seek her out.
She leaves the rifle and walks across the naked obsidian into the swarm firing from the hip as she goes, each kick of the old revolver a word, Draksis, Draksis, Kell of Winter, Kell of hate, lord of the kingdom of her vendetta. Her jaw aches. She used to imagine biting out his throat with armored teeth.
The stone smokes around her where the arc fire lashes it and the shrapnel guns throw up leaves of obsidian like glass butterflies. She shoots her bandoliers dry and a team of Vandals in glassy stealth leap up to rush her with knives but she raises her hand and burns them down with the golden gun, laughing, crying out Draksis, Draksis, I am come!
She kills them all and takes the next ridge, high above the Cinders. She can see the blue-green pools and the cave mouths where the Vex lights dance. And there among them, gowned in smoke and ash, is the long shark shape of a Ketch, a Wintership, the Kell's ship, come down to nest.
She could go down there now and finish this. But she made a promise.
A Captain jumps her. She throws two knives into his armor and then staves his chest in with her own Ghost, wrapped up in her fist like a stone.
"Tell the Vanguard," she says to her Ether-spattered fist. "Tell them Draksis is here."
Her Ghost looks up at her in silence. When she makes no move to go down the cliff towards the ship it blinks once, in its own way, and makes a soft sound, like a sigh, like relief.
The first book/film in a series is used to introduce the reader/viewer to the characters and their motivations, the universe the story takes place in, and driving force behind the protagonist. Destiny fails in that it really does none of this. It places you within the universe, but does not adequately explain how it came to be (how did the Traveler save us, how did we advance due to his presence, and why is it dying?). It introduces you to the characters, but does not even attempt to build character around them (hell, most of them don't even have any narrative dialogue). It gives you objectives, but does very little in explaining how those objectives came about, or even how YOU came about (were you a Guardian that died, or just some nobody?)
I'm really enjoying the game itself, but I'm extremely skeptical that the story will amount to anything in the long run with the pathetic attempt that Bungie has presented in the first part of the game.
I'm really enjoying the game itself, but I'm extremely skeptical that the story will amount to anything in the long run with the pathetic attempt that Bungie has presented in the first part of the game.
XANDER CAGE
Member
This has nothing to do with depth. Halo isn't deep, but it's a basic story that follows a consistent narrative framework. Destiny can't even accomplish that.
The Covenant have a clearly established motive ("fuck humans because our religion says so") that evolves over the course of the story ("fuck humans and also let's start our version of the rapture by releasing these zombies) that has an added layer of dramatic irony (in that they don't quite realize that their religion's divine purpose is undoing something that was protecting them too).
Again, not high art, but it's far more engaging than anything in Destiny.
The only one of those that come close is Sovereign from ME. Even that one is nothing but a harbinger to the coming threat.
It seems most people want a more traditional villain - something with a face we can point to and say "that is the bad guy", but Destiny doesn't do this. Instead, you fight for something rather than actively against something until push comes to shove. I think the main issue with the story is that they don't give the player enough reason to want to be a Guardian. They just tell you that you are one, slap you on the ass, and tell you get out there, tiger. That's not enough for some people, which I understand.
SolsticeZero
Banned
You could argue that 343 Guilty Spark was the main antagonist in the end, in a way.
Except none of that happens in Halo CE. Not even a little bit. Halo CE's primary antagonist is the Flood, and we don't even see anything or any insight about the Covies until the subsequent sequels where they force you to see the Covie perspective through the eyes of the Arbiter.
So to compare the story of -three games- to the 16 (generous numbers here) hour story of Destiny is all sorts of not equivalent, but it doesn't make your points any less valid if they aren't addressed.
Basically my counter point sums up to say that Destiny is just as engaging as Halo CE was when it was first released.
GringoSuave89
Banned
You're kidding, right? In FFVII each of the Turks had a personality and unique character trait that made them their own entity. What's up with the Fallen Archon Priest? I thought the Fallen were pirates, do they have a religious system? What about the Three Hive Witches? Do they have a command role in the Hive or are they just powerful tools to them?
We are given all these "bosses" (I use the term loosely) and are told nothing but kill them. The grimore cards may go into more depth, but removing story just so people can go to your website is shit.
Not only is a lack of motivation not enough, it's insulting as someone that loved the story of Halo 1-3.
XANDER CAGE
Member
When was the last time you played Halo CE? All of this is established in the first game, in 343 Guilty Spark and The Library in particular.
I rarely kid. Actually, that's not true, but I was being quite serious. The Turks do all have a personality, yes, because they aren't bad guys. They basically just exist because Reeve exists, but that's another story. They have personalities, but they're all one note characters.
To your counterpoint about the Witches/Archon/etc that's asking for background story for "characters" that have no point to the story. It isn't important who the witches are or what they're for because they're in your way and you got shit to do. Yeah, it'd be nice if Dinklebot would tell us what they're up to, but it's not exactly a pressing matter at the time.
It's akin to the bosses in Demon/Dark Souls/II. Sure there's some lore about them, but it's obfuscated as a mother, and yet you have to go in there stick a sword in their face and move about your journey because it's your job to kill the things that want to kill you. I don't think a lot of people would argue that Dark Souls, for example, doesn't have a strong narrative to it. They would say that the narrative to the game is but the tip of the iceberg, and the true interesting stuff is what we haven't been told but can piece together through item descriptions and vague NPC chatter.
While not trying to compare Destiny's bare-bones story to something more "masterpiece-esque" like Dark Souls, I think it's fair to say that a similar thought process was put into these bosses and locations you stumble across. Again, you can argue the execution, and there are definitely ways to improve, but it's hardly absent at the same time.
GringoSuave89
Banned
What kind of primary antagonist shows up only halfway (probably more) into a game? The Covenant were the antagonists throughout, and the Flood became secondary antagonists in the third act.
16 is far more than generous. It's an overestimate, but that's not the point. The only thing engaging about Destiny is the gameplay. I am not clamoring to redo a mission cause I want to see the awesome narrative again. I'm doing it to shoot shit and grind.
Here's a key difference in the narrative of Halo CE and Destiny. In Halo, I am a Spartan, an elite soldier that is more powerful than the typical marine. How do I know this? I have NPC marines stand in awe and comment when I approach. In Destiny, I'm a Guardian. How do I know? I'm told in two sentences and that's it. Are Guardians a small population of the best in the galaxy? I have no idea, considering the game world is nothing BUT Guardians. How am I special when I see 20 other Guardians in the game world? Me being a Guardian has no value in the narrative.
I'd rather have one note than know nothing about who I'm killing.
Pressing? No. Important for me to give a shit? Yes.
I wasn't told this was going to be like Dark Souls. We were sold this game as a living galaxy with enormous scope. That description doesn't even fit the gameplay as far as I'm concerned.
This game was presented as the Second Coming of video game space odysseys. And not just by the quickly disillusioned gaming press, but by Bungie/Activision. It did not meet that standard.
I'm saying this as a disappointed Sci-Fi fan. I really like the game. I play every waking hour when I don't have school or work. I'm playing right now. But that's not because of the story, it's the gameplay.
Admittedly a few years back. I do know that I never remember the name or character of the Arbiter ever showing up until Halo 2. Most people don't even know what the title of Arbiter even means, I'm sure. I don't remember much about the rest of the plot threads being spoken of in the Library (and I spent a lot of time in that hellhole), but a couple of throwaway lines doesn't change a whole lot, in my opinion.
IISANDERII
Member
I thought humanity was pushed back so much that the only safe haven was under the Traveler; everywhere else was consumed/occupied by the Darkness.
But then when you look up in the sky while in Old Russia, Traveler is nowhere to be seen.
Where did I go wrong?
GringoSuave89
Banned
I thought humanity was pushed back so much that the only safe haven was under the Traveler; everywhere else was consumed/occupied by the Darkness.
But then when you look up in the sky while in Old Russia, Traveler is nowhere to be seen.
Where did I go wrong?
Well, Old Russia is even called Fallen territory in the game, so the whole "only safe haven is under the Traveler" still stands.
XANDER CAGE
Member
The Arbiter is only introduced in 2, but CE establishes the Covenant holy war, the true nature of the rings, and even begins to establish what the Flood and Forerunner are. There's much more than "a few throwaway lines" for all this in CE; the entire back half of the game is devoted to detonating Halo before the Covenant can crusade their way into pressing a big ol' universe reset button.
Personally I actually thing 2 is where the story starts to go off the rails.
Except the entire second half and resolution of the game focuses on the Flood, surviving the Flood, and escaping the Flood while the Covies ( and their holy war against humanity) is relegated to mere background dressing, if that. We only get back on that train in Halo 2.
If anything can be taken from this enormous sidetrack of Halo comparisons it's that Bungie has already done these sorts of story telling methods before in Halo CE, so there could be some hope in there that there's more depth and levels to come in the future.
I already conceded this point, and I agree with it.
Sure it does. A living, breathing organic space cannot have all known about it within the first few hours. There's tons of wreckage, and signs, and clues around the space we occupy that tell stories. Most people don't want to read those stories, which is totally understandable. I barely do, either. It's interesting, sure, but nothing that's super engrossing.
I don't think any expected the sparse story that we were given. I'm not even saying the story is good, lest we forget, I'm merely saying that the story does exist. It's shallow, yes, and not overwhelming exciting, but it's there.
So basically the wheels of the hype train fell off. This is a pretty well understood fact about Destiny. There was no way it was going to live up to the hype. It hasn't so far. It may in the future, but even that is pretty cloudy. It's up to Bungie to give us all some hope that this world is going to be worth coming back to.
we.are.the.armada
Member
If the speaker really wanted to stop the darkness he'd let guardians go in fireteams bigger than 3. He'd also let them use matchmaking.
GringoSuave89
Banned
/thread
Jack Scofield
Member
I've been checking out some of the Grimoire cards, and I find the lore to be really fascinating. It's a shame more isn't explained within the game.
Yup, those are all breadcrumbs that are only really slightly expanded upon in the sequels. You can draw parallels to what the Darkness is (or can do, I guess, with the Heart in the Black Garden), the state of the world/universe/whatever where mankind is concerned, and set up some base level lore about each of the different species we encounter. It's as shallow as it comes, I won't even argue that, but it's -technically- there. All I'm trying to imply is that there is a little tiny modicum of hope to be found amidst the admittedly wreck of a story. Maybe they can fix it up in the later installments, who knows.
And yeah, Halo 2's ending is still trash to this day, and I wasn't a huge amazing fan of Halo 3's story since it had this huge feeling of "Well, we all know what's gonna happen, so let's get it over with." but that's a topic for an entirely different thread.
Melchiah
Member
The NPCs make comments when you go near them in the tower, and you get some feedback after some of the missions about how you achieved something unthinkable. So, it certainly paints you as something special, perhaps it's just not as in-your-face as in Halo.
EDIT: You also have to prove your worth in the beginning of Destiny, unlike in Halo where you're a hero the second you step out of the capsule.
EDIT.2:
Sovereign.
Death Metalist
Member
What I'd really like to know is who Bungie will be getting to manage the lore and storyline for the sequel. Every critic (and even most of Destiny's defenders) have something less-than-positive to say about the story (at best, I keep hearing "what's there is adequate"), so I'd really hope Bungie would have the ambition to completely address story for the next go-around.
So of video game, comic-book, TV series, and movie screenwriters, is there a writer or writing team that you would want to take over this series?
My suggestions:
- Mark Waid (Daredevil, Hulk)
- Jim Starlin (creator of Thanos, wrote much of Marvel's cosmic stories)
- Ron D. Moore (Battlestar Galactica re-imagined)
So of video game, comic-book, TV series, and movie screenwriters, is there a writer or writing team that you would want to take over this series?
My suggestions:
- Mark Waid (Daredevil, Hulk)
- Jim Starlin (creator of Thanos, wrote much of Marvel's cosmic stories)
- Ron D. Moore (Battlestar Galactica re-imagined)
buddha0991
Member
HEAR HEAR
For everybody saying "the lore is in the cards", have you actually stopped to read some of these entries? A bunch of them state some random quote that is tangentially related to what the card is about, but does not even state what the subject of the card IS, or any background information at all. Look at the cards for the "Ishtar Collective" or "the Archive" for examples. I'm just curious what kind of comments the writer of these cards received, assuming somebody took a look at his work before the game was released.
Anton Sugar
Member
Importantly Mass Effect also has a much more immediate antagonist in the form of Saren who shows up in the very first mission and is a presence throughout the game even though you eventually find out he is serving a higher power.
So are you saying this is excusable? After 5 years of development and a hefty budget, ESPECIALLY after taking the time to create all of that concept art, you'd think someone would have stopped to ask "so how does this all tie together? Maybe we should write it down."
I was thinking about this the other day. I wonder if Bungie left the story for Destiny so loose and vauge because they knew there would be sequels? When Halo was in development, there weren't plans at the time to make a franchise, so the story had to be self-contained and have some amount of resolution.
My line of reasoning is that the story for Halo 2 was comparably shitty. I assume Bungie knew they had another game to fix up all of those plotholes, so they just shrugged and said "we'll explain it eventually".
Holy shit, how has this not been reported on? This is totally thread worthy.
What the fuck is going on at Bungie?
Anton Sugar
Member
show me your skeleton
Member
can't wait for the expose on what happened with this game's development. is there any more info. on how it started off as a medieval themed game?
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