I just finished the game's 'story' and I have to say this is the most contrived and shoddy story i've seen in a long time. So many questions and no answers, the game gives you a pretty basic and somewhat generic introduction in the beginning about 'the darkness' wanting to take over earth and the traveler, but we don't get to know anything about our enemies, the humans in the last city or the traveler in the end.
There are basically no characters relevant in the story, the exo woman got relatively a lot of exposition and it went nowhere, she did nothing and we didn't get to know anything about her. If she have a big role in Destiny 2, they could've easily just cut her form this game and introduced her in the sequel, she comes of as a red herring looking back. There are no real antagonist(s) or any sort of motif exposition, your enemies are just mindless monsters and robots in the end. All we get to know through ghost is that they mine planets for resources and want to kill us humans because of the traveler for some reason.
I have a hard time thinking that even a novice storywriter worked on this, i'm sure people in this very thread could come up with a more inspiring and thought out story... what the fuck, Bungie?
I'm seriously considering doing a top-down rewrite of the story, just for the lulz. I'm 99 percent sure I could do a better job while keeping the individual plot points intact.
I don't hate the story (lol story) its more of a side quest. I do think that there is A LOT more to the stranger and her time traveling. Who is talking to her on the intercom asking if "we" are there. Who is attacking her when she says "spin up the engines and make sure nobody sees you" something like that.
it really feels like a pilot episode of an episodic series.
Having played only the first Halo on PC, I wouldn't call its story any deeper than that of Destiny. Both games excel more in gameplay.
The first Halo has:
-A beginning, middle, and end
-A clear goal for the protagonists
-A clearly defined antagonizing force
-A mystery that is eventually revealed that introduces another antagonistic force as well as providing motivation for the previously established antagonists
-Characters that make key choices that move the story forward
-An ending that leaves many threads open, but at the very least sees the protagonists accomplishing their original goal
Like, yeah, Halo isn't exactly Citizen Kane but it's miles better than Destiny. Destiny barely even has the basic threads of a story.
Destiny hits all of these points as well. You can argue the effectiveness, but that's not exactly the point. Good or bad is subjective, and it's pretty clear that the main story quests in the game are all coherent plot points that lead to one another while the side story quests are small tangents of lore and world building.The first Halo has:
-A beginning, middle, and end
-A clear goal for the protagonists
-A clearly defined antagonizing force
-A mystery that is eventually revealed that introduces another antagonistic force as well as providing motivation for the previously established antagonists
-Characters that make key choices that move the story forward
-An ending that leaves many threads open, but at the very least sees the protagonists accomplishing their original goal
Like, yeah, Halo isn't exactly Citizen Kane but it's miles better than Destiny. Destiny barely even has the basic threads of a story.
The first Halo has:
-A beginning, middle, and end
-A clear goal for the protagonists
-A clearly defined antagonizing force
-A mystery that is eventually revealed that introduces another antagonistic force as well as providing motivation for the previously established antagonists
-Characters that make key choices that move the story forward
-An ending that leaves many threads open, but at the very least sees the protagonists accomplishing their original goal
Like, yeah, Halo isn't exactly Citizen Kane but it's miles better than Destiny. Destiny barely even has the basic threads of a story.
Hit the nail on the thread. It even gameplay-wise FEELS like you're progressing to an epic conclusion.
It wasn't so much the story being great as it was narrative and gameplay intertwining to create a certain feeling within the player. The soundtrack was used to great effect as well.
[Ending scene of the game, after the Master Chief has destroyed Halo and fled in a Longsword fighter]
Master Chief: Did anyone else make it?
Cortana: Scanning...just dust and echoes. We're all that's left...We did what we had to do - for Earth. An entire Covenant armada obliterated, and the Flood...We had no choice. Halo, it's finished.
Master Chief: No, I think we're just getting started.
[The Master Chief removes his helmet as the camera backs out of the Longsword and turns to look at the stars]
Destiny hits all of these points as well. You can argue the effectiveness, but that's not exactly the point. Good or bad is subjective, and it's pretty clear that the main story quests in the game are all coherent plot points that lead to one another while the side story quests are small tangents of lore and world building.
Name me a major antagonist that's not a nebulous force or faction. There are the Fallen House leaders and whatnot, but they have no narrative.
Are they any more nebulous than The Covenant from Halo CE? Why can't a nebulous force be a good antagonist?
Shin-Ra isn't an antagonist?
The Reapers aren't antagonists?
Each example has some kind of Antagonist with a story arc.
The Prophets /The Arbiter/Tartarus
Destiny hits all of these points as well. You can argue the effectiveness, but that's not exactly the point. Good or bad is subjective, and it's pretty clear that the main story quests in the game are all coherent plot points that lead to one another while the side story quests are small tangents of lore and world building.
Are they any more nebulous than The Covenant from Halo CE? Why can't a nebulous force be a good antagonist?
Shin-Ra isn't an antagonist?
The Reapers aren't antagonists?
It doesn't matter if there's no real narrative to the antagonists for the story being given. It's generic fantasy: They are bad because they are bad. We are good because we are good.
There are also narratives to the Vex and to the Hive segments of the game, the former being major players in the "end game" plot of Destiny as is.
Each example has some kind of Antagonist with a story arc.
The Prophets /The Arbiter/Tartarus
The Turks
The individual Reaper from ME1, and the Leviathan DLC for ME3
But those didn't show up until the sequel.
Everyone was perfectly happy with mindless Floods and Covenants and Sentinels.
Except none of that happens in Halo CE. Not even a little bit. Halo CE's primary antagonist is the Flood, and we don't even see anything or any insight about the Covies until the subsequent sequels where they force you to see the Covie perspective through the eyes of the Arbiter.The Covenant have a clearly established motive ("fuck humans because our religion says so") that evolves over the course of the story ("fuck humans and also let's start our version of the rapture by releasing these zombies) that has an added layer of dramatic irony (in that they don't quite realize that their religion's divine purpose is undoing something that was protecting them too).
Again, not high art, but it's far more engaging than anything in Destiny.
The only one of those that come close is Sovereign from ME. Even that one is nothing but a harbinger to the coming threat.
It seems most people want a more traditional villain - something with a face we can point to and say "that is the bad guy", but Destiny doesn't do this. Instead, you fight for something rather than actively against something until push comes to shove. I think the main issue with the story is that they don't give the player enough reason to want to be a Guardian. They just tell you that you are one, slap you on the ass, and tell you get out there, tiger. That's not enough for some people, which I understand.
Except none of that happens in Halo CE. Not even a little bit. Halo CE's primary antagonist is the Flood, and we don't even see anything or any insight about the Covies until the subsequent sequels where they force you to see the Covie perspective through the eyes of the Arbiter.
So to compare the story of -three games- to the 16 (generous numbers here) hour story of Destiny is all sorts of not equivalent, but it doesn't make your points any less valid if they aren't addressed.
Basically my counter point sums up to say that Destiny is just as engaging as Halo CE was when it was first released.
I rarely kid. Actually, that's not true, but I was being quite serious. The Turks do all have a personality, yes, because they aren't bad guys. They basically just exist because Reeve exists, but that's another story. They have personalities, but they're all one note characters.You're kidding, right? In FFVII each of the Turks had a personality and unique character trait that made them their own entity. What's up with the Fallen Archon Priest? I thought the Fallen were pirates, do they have a religious system? What about the Three Hive Witches? Do they have a command role in the Hive or are they just powerful tools to them?
We are given all these "bosses" (I use the term loosely) and are told nothing but kill them. The grimore cards may go into more depth, but removing story just so people can go to your website is shit.
Not only is a lack of motivation not enough, it's insulting as someone that loved the story of Halo 1-3.
Except none of that happens in Halo CE. Not even a little bit. Halo CE's primary antagonist is the Flood, and we don't even see anything or any insight about the Covies until the subsequent sequels where they force you to see the Covie perspective through the eyes of the Arbiter.
So to compare the story of -three games- to the 16 (generous numbers here) hour story of Destiny is all sorts of not equivalent, but it doesn't make your points any less valid if they aren't addressed.
Basically my counter point sums up to say that Destiny is just as engaging as Halo CE was when it was first released.
I rarely kid. Actually, that's not true, but I was being quite serious. The Turks do all have a personality, yes, because they aren't bad guys. They basically just exist because Reeve exists, but that's another story. They have personalities, but they're all one note characters.
To your counterpoint about the Witches/Archon/etc that's asking for background story for "characters" that have no point to the story. It isn't important who the witches are or what they're for because they're in your way and you got shit to do. Yeah, it'd be nice if Dinklebot would tell us what they're up to, but it's not exactly a pressing matter at the time.
It's akin to the bosses in Demon/Dark Souls/II. Sure there's some lore about them, but it's obfuscated as a mother, and yet you have to go in there stick a sword in their face and move about your journey because it's your job to kill the things that want to kill you. I don't think a lot of people would argue that Dark Souls, for example, doesn't have a strong narrative to it. They would say that the narrative to the game is but the tip of the iceberg, and the true interesting stuff is what we haven't been told but can piece together through item descriptions and vague NPC chatter.
While not trying to compare Destiny's bare-bones story to something more "masterpiece-esque" like Dark Souls, I think it's fair to say that a similar thought process was put into these bosses and locations you stumble across. Again, you can argue the execution, and there are definitely ways to improve, but it's hardly absent at the same time.
When was the last time you played Halo CE? All of this is established in the first game, in 343 Guilty Spark and The Library in particular.
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I thought humanity was pushed back so much that the only safe haven was under the Traveler; everywhere else was consumed/occupied by the Darkness.
But then when you look up in the sky while in Old Russia, Traveler is nowhere to be seen.
Where did I go wrong?
Admittedly a few years back. I do know that I never remember the name or character of the Arbiter ever showing up until Halo 2. Most people don't even know what the title of Arbiter even means, I'm sure. I don't remember much about the rest of the plot threads being spoken of in the Library (and I spent a lot of time in that hellhole), but a couple of throwaway lines doesn't change a whole lot, in my opinion.
Except the entire second half and resolution of the game focuses on the Flood, surviving the Flood, and escaping the Flood while the Covies ( and their holy war against humanity) is relegated to mere background dressing, if that. We only get back on that train in Halo 2.What kind of primary antagonist shows up only halfway (probably more) into a game? The Covenant were the antagonists throughout, and the Flood became secondary antagonists in the third act.
I already conceded this point, and I agree with it.Me being a Guardian has no value in the narrative.
Sure it does. A living, breathing organic space cannot have all known about it within the first few hours. There's tons of wreckage, and signs, and clues around the space we occupy that tell stories. Most people don't want to read those stories, which is totally understandable. I barely do, either. It's interesting, sure, but nothing that's super engrossing.I wasn't told this was going to be like Dark Souls. We were sold this game as a living galaxy with enormous scope. That description doesn't even fit the gameplay as far as I'm concerned.
So basically the wheels of the hype train fell off. This is a pretty well understood fact about Destiny. There was no way it was going to live up to the hype. It hasn't so far. It may in the future, but even that is pretty cloudy. It's up to Bungie to give us all some hope that this world is going to be worth coming back to.This game was presented as the Second Coming of video game space odysseys. And not just by the quickly disillusioned gaming press, but by Bungie/Activision. It did not meet that standard.
If the speaker really wanted to stop the darkness he'd let guardians go in fireteams bigger than 3. He'd also let them use matchmaking.
Yup, those are all breadcrumbs that are only really slightly expanded upon in the sequels. You can draw parallels to what the Darkness is (or can do, I guess, with the Heart in the Black Garden), the state of the world/universe/whatever where mankind is concerned, and set up some base level lore about each of the different species we encounter. It's as shallow as it comes, I won't even argue that, but it's -technically- there. All I'm trying to imply is that there is a little tiny modicum of hope to be found amidst the admittedly wreck of a story. Maybe they can fix it up in the later installments, who knows.The Arbiter is only introduced in 2, but CE establishes the Covenant holy war, the true nature of the rings, and even begins to establish what the Flood and Forerunner are. There's much more than "a few throwaway lines" for all this in CE; the entire back half of the game is devoted to detonating Halo before the Covenant can crusade their way into pressing a big ol' universe reset button.
Personally I actually thing 2 is where the story starts to go off the rails.
Here's a key difference in the narrative of Halo CE and Destiny. In Halo, I am a Spartan, an elite soldier that is more powerful than the typical marine. How do I know this? I have NPC marines stand in awe and comment when I approach. In Destiny, I'm a Guardian. How do I know? I'm told in two sentences and that's it. Are Guardians a small population of the best in the galaxy? I have no idea, considering the game world is nothing BUT Guardians. How am I special when I see 20 other Guardians in the game world? Me being a Guardian has no value in the narrative.
What kind of primary antagonist shows up only halfway (probably more) into a game? The Covenant were the antagonists throughout, and the Flood became secondary antagonists in the third act.
If the speaker really wanted to stop the darkness he'd let guardians go in fireteams bigger than 3. He'd also let them use matchmaking.
For everybody saying "the lore is in the cards", have you actually stopped to read some of these entries? A bunch of them state some random quote that is tangentially related to what the card is about, but does not even state what the subject of the card IS, or any background information at all. Look at the cards for the "Ishtar Collective" or "the Archive" for examples. I'm just curious what kind of comments the writer of these cards received, assuming somebody took a look at his work before the game was released.
Sovereign.
Ghosts said:Built from machinery and the Traveler's Light, Ghosts guide their Guardian companions in the quest to reclaim our solar system.
Every Ghost seeks out its Guardian among the ancient dead. The Ghost serves as scout, librarian, and mechanic, waking ancient machinery and cracking alien codes. In the right situations, a Ghost can even save a Guardian from death.
But Ghosts are not immortal. As far as Guardians know, every loss is irreplaceable.
Dead Ghosts said:Battered and drained of their Light, these Ghosts are nevertheless valuable for the information they preserve. Their recovered memories may well prove vital to the City's survival.
The problem of dead Ghosts troubles the City's scholars. Are new Ghosts still being born? Or is the number of Ghosts dwindling? Will there come a day when no more remain - an end to the rise of new Guardians?
If that day is coming, then the City faces a desperate race against time to heal the Traveler before attrition takes its toll.
Probably because it was mostly written and edited in one crazy sprint very close to launch.
The first Halo has:
-A beginning, middle, and end
-A clear goal for the protagonists
-A clearly defined antagonizing force
-A mystery that is eventually revealed that introduces another antagonistic force as well as providing motivation for the previously established antagonists
-Characters that make key choices that move the story forward
-An ending that leaves many threads open, but at the very least sees the protagonists accomplishing their original goal
Like, yeah, Halo isn't exactly Citizen Kane but it's miles better than Destiny. Destiny barely even has the basic threads of a story.
Holy shit, how has this not been reported on? This is totally thread worthy.Probably because it was mostly written and edited in one crazy sprint very close to launch.
So are you saying this is excusable? After 5 years of development and a hefty budget, ESPECIALLY after taking the time to create all of that concept art, you'd think someone would have stopped to ask "so how does this all tie together? Maybe we should write it down."