Support NeoGAF

[Poodlestrike]

So what do people think now that the game is out. Is this the largest game Bungie has every made by far in terms of content?

Kinda. It's got more stuff to do than any Halo I've ever played, but if we were to run it through a program to determine how much unique content it had, I'd actually say it'd turn out smaller.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

If you don't know why people are being negative about this game, you haven't read the many arguments from people who aren't big fans. There are some pretty compelling ones, and this is coming from a guy who is enjoying it.

The main sources of the 'negativity'.

- Repetetive mission design without significant setpiece moments. Usually mission design involves fighting through rooms of enemies to reach a specific location, summoning the ghost, and then fighting waves of enemies until they are all dead. Mission ends.

- A severe lack of story or noticeable characters within the game itself, including some poorly written dialogue with a lot of vague sci-fi terms to sound important. (The Light, The Darkness, Guardians, Ghosts, Evil so evil it hates other evil... stuff like that.)

- An endgame that places heavy emphasis on grinding strikes over and over again to obtain better gear.

- Strikes that just take regular enemies, pump up their health, and deem them bosses rather than giving them any interesting or cool mechanics. Bosses that take way too long not because they're difficult, but because their health has been artificially inflated to massive proportions.

- No proximity voice chat or meaningful interactions with other people unless they're in your firesquad.

- Only 4 crucible gametypes.


There are many others. Now whether or not you agree with these criticisms is up to you, but there's no way you don't "understand" the negativity. It's quite clear where that is coming from.

Yes and many games have nearly the same negative aspects, but those games didn't get dinged nearly as hard. Hell Bioshock Infinite would have been much better as a graphic novel or movie, the gameplay was extremely generic. It was critically acclaimed.

Guess we shall see how it works going forward. Maybe the gaming press collectively decided to get their shit together and stop handing out 8.5's-9's like candy. The Order is shaping up to be just like Bioshock from what we have seen, good-great story with generic gameplay.

 

[Poodlestrike]

It has characters, your ghost, the Speaker, the Exo stranger, the Awoken Queen and her brother etc. They're just not very prominent or well fleshed out.

Most of them are not characters in any meaningful sense of the world, though. They exist mostly to exposit. You could replace Dinklebot with a narrator 90% of the time, and the speaker 100%. They have little to no personality of their own, existing purely to say stuff in the player's general direction. The one exception is the Queen and her brother, who actually have a life of their own. But two characters are simply not enough to carry a 12 hour story, especially when they only show up twice.

 

[Finaj]

I find it hard to swallow that Destiny is getting lower scores than Titanfall... this does feel a bit like a rebound witchhunt.

They think Destiny's story is lacking? I don't remember anything that happened in TF's... and I played 40 or so hours of both campaign and MP.

Well I do remember one thing, some guy called McSomething

Spoiler

blew himself up

- possible spoiler, well... not really, the story in TF was that bad.

Guns feel better in Destiny, character progression is amazing and the loot/gear system is great (albeit, needing some tweaking ala PvP rewards etc), the world is actually interesting.. the more I think about it, how the hell did TF get the scores it got?

Titanfall is a multiplayer-only game. I didn't really expect a story or cared if it got one. I just wanted to get in a mech and go to town.

Destiny is a large RPG made by the developers of Halo, the story of which I enjoyed. I just expected more from it.

 

[DOWN]

I'd be okay with the score averages if TitanFall hadn't been scored a chunk higher than Destiny.

 

[Danomeon]

Yes and many games have nearly the same negative aspects, but those games didn't get dinged nearly as hard. Hell Bioshock Infinite would have been much better as a graphic novel or movie, the gameplay was extremely generic. It was critically acclaimed.

I agree with you, but I hope that wasn't an argument against the post I was making. I was just pointing out to someone who asked where the negativity is coming from.

 

[vasametropolis]

So what do people think now that the game is out. Is this the largest game Bungie has every made by far in terms of content?

I personally don't understand why they didn't bother to put in more cut-scenes...

If we're talking the amount of content in the released game, then no. Probably Halo 3? The scope of what they are trying to do is bigger, but the game is not actually bigger.

Unless they have new areas and story and side missions they're going to unlock out of nowhere as a surprise, then it's not happening. They need free expansions. The two they are adding have no new play spaces (read: planets) from what I can tell and are likely just going to amount to a strike style mission or two.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I find it hard to swallow that Destiny is getting lower scores than Titanfall... this does feel a bit like a rebound witchhunt.

They think Destiny's story is lacking? I don't remember anything that happened in TF's... and I played 40 or so hours of both campaign and MP.

Well I do remember one thing, some guy called McSomething

Spoiler

blew himself up

- possible spoiler, well... not really, the story in TF was that bad.

Guns feel better in Destiny, character progression is amazing and the loot/gear system is great (albeit, needing some tweaking ala PvP rewards etc), the world is actually interesting.. the more I think about it, how the hell did TF get the scores it got?

I feel the people giving Titanfall flak don't understand why it scored so well. Titanfall was never marketed as having a great single player, a deep story, gameplay that reached a point at level 20-it was always just a multiplayer game. And for that, it was praised.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

I'd be okay with the score averages if TitanFall hadn't been scored a chunk higher than Destiny.

That is precisely what some people aren't getting, it is like the gaming press overnight got their shit together. Let's see if that holds or was Destiny just 'special'.

I agree with you, but I hope that wasn't an argument against the post I was making. I was just pointing out to someone who asked where the negativity is coming from.

I know where the negativity is coming from, I have agreed with a solid portion of it. My issue though, is with the gaming press as a whole. So long as they are consistent I have no issue, I want all games to be reviewed just as critically...again we shall see.

 

[Deadbeat]

I'd be okay with the score averages if TitanFall hadn't been scored a chunk higher than Destiny.

I wonder if they will hide the sales numbers of Destiny and play coy like Titanfall. "It sold great" "how much?" "great"

 

[ArkkAngel007]

I find it hard to swallow that Destiny is getting lower scores than Titanfall... this does feel a bit like a rebound witchhunt.

They think Destiny's story is lacking? I don't remember anything that happened in TF's... and I played 40 or so hours of both campaign and MP.

Well I do remember one thing, some guy called McSomething

Spoiler

blew himself up

- possible spoiler, well... not really, the story in TF was that bad.

Guns feel better in Destiny, character progression is amazing and the loot/gear system is great (albeit, needing some tweaking ala PvP rewards etc), the world is actually interesting.. the more I think about it, how the hell did TF get the scores it got?

Apples to Oranges, though I agree as someone who enjoyed Titanfall greatly that some of the reception scores felt off.

But it's not some grand conspiracy. Plenty of games get shit scores that don't deserve them, plenty get great scores they don't, and quite a lot and perhaps the majority get the appropriate level.

This kind of just reads either console war shenanigans or just trying to draw parity between two hype machines. Both of which aren't relevant to the games as they stand by themselves.

Edit: Didn't realize Titanfall and Destiny were the only two games to ever be reviewed.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

So what do people think now that the game is out. Is this the largest game Bungie has every made by far in terms of content?

I personally don't understand why they didn't bother to put in more cut-scenes...

I definitely could have used more cut scenes, after reading up on the Grimoire I really want to know more... I know you shouldn't have to read stuff on a website to get the story for the game, but in this case I think it's worth it.

I would say Bungie is taking on board the criticism of their storytelling choices, and will hopefully implement mucho story buzz in the expansions now (this, would be and an excellent move Bungie pls).

 

[Steel]

Are people here saying they pretty much already played most of the content in the game? I didn't thick it lacked THAT much.

Other than playing it all on the highest difficulty? Yes, pretty much. It does lack THAT much. Oh, but there's a six person raid coming out.

 

[ryan299]

I'm still laughing over the reef being a planet on the hub screen. You go there twice for cutscenes. No need for it.

In my opinion this game deserves bad reviews. It was over hyped and feels shallow.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

I definitely could have used more cut scenes, after reading up on the Grimoire I really want to know more... I know you shouldn't have to read stuff on a website to get the story for the game, but in this case I think it's worth it.

I would say Bungie is taking on board the criticism of their storytelling choices, and will hopefully implement mucho story buzz in the expansions now (this, would be and an excellent move Bungie pls).

I wouldn't expect anything in the first expansion unless they were way ahead of the criticism already. Expansion 2, which hopefully we get by March, may have a better chance in addressing narrative, agency, variety, and structure.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Other than playing it all on the highest difficulty? Yes, pretty much. It does lack THAT much. Oh, but there's a six person raid coming out.

D3 launch enters the room.

 

[Pain]

Hiphopgamer in meltdown mode.



ANSWER THAT...

If you don't like it then don't read them, I know I don't let them influence me.

 

[Poodlestrike]

D3 launch enters the room.

D3 had a better story though.

 

[Steel]

D3 launch enters the room.

Was I making a comparison? Did people not get pissed off by D3's launch state?

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Was I making a comparison? Did people not get pissed off by D3's launch state?

Did D3 get universally dinged from reviewers?

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Apples to Oranges, though I agree as someone who enjoyed Titanfall greatly that some of the reception felt off.

But it's not some grand conspiracy. Plenty of games get shit scores that don't deserve them, plenty get great scores they don't, and quite a lot and perhaps the majority get the appropriate level.

This kind of just reads either console war shenanigans or just trying to draw parity between two hype machines. Both of which aren't relevant to the games as they stand by themselves.

Edit: Didn't realize Titanfall and Destiny were the only two games to ever be reviewed.

Oh, I know it's not a grand conspiracy: I was puzzled at the time how Titanfall scored so well... I enjoyed the game quite a bit, but could feel from the outset that it had a super limited shelf life and that campaign multiplayer was just bung...I remember thinking at the time "huh.. they didn't mark down for that campaign multiplayer.. weird!".

No console war shenanigans here mate, I own everything there is... I couldn't give a flying toot about which is better, it is genuine curiosity now that we have to semi-similar games on review, and the way they are getting quite varied treatment, I find it a little weird is all.


No salty required, or did I mistake your edit as salt?

 

[NickFire]

I'm liking what I have played so far but am not surprised by the bad reviews. I gave Bungie the benefit of the doubt on their rationale due to their pedigree, but historically any company that does not find a way to get review copies out early is hiding something.

 

[Steel]

Did D3 get universally dinged from reviewers?

Did Sim City? I mean seriously are you saying that reviews are supposed to be crappy?

 

[Pain]

I'm still laughing over the reef being a planet on the hub screen. You go there twice for cutscenes. No need for it.

In my opinion this game deserves bad reviews. It was over hyped and feels shallow.

It deserves bad reviews because it was overhyped?

I'm personally enjoying the game even with its faults. Just because its not a 10/10 it doesn't mean its not worth playing.

 

[Naughty_Doge]

At least the game is back in the green zone...

 

[Shrennin]

I wonder if they will hide the sales numbers of Destiny and play coy like Titanfall. "It sold great" "how much?" "great"

I wouldn't be surprised if Destiny broke sales records, but the legs of it may not keep. Unfortunately, while it was the most pre-ordered new IP, it may also end up being the most traded-in new IP as well (that was a joke).

I fully expect Activision and Bungie to talk about how well it sold though, at least initially.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Did Sim City? I mean seriously are you saying that reviews are supposed to be crappy?

No I'm saying that reviews should be consistent and they aren't. It is as if Destiny was universally held out as a target to make an example of for whatever reason.

 

[katsubento]

It's unfair to take the statements of people who are making well-thought out arguments against the game and lump their lack of enjoyment into, "Oh, it's just because". The guys who aren't feeling this product are explaining their reasons for it well, and none of them boil down to "Just because."

I love it too, but I would definitely say I've had more fun in many other games these past few years. I'm interested in Destiny because of the strikes/raids, and in that area I would say I've much preferred the dungeon content of many MMOs to recently hit the market. The encounter design could use a lot of work to extend hardcore bosses beyond being normal bosses with inflated health pools.

There are those that just say it sucks without giving any reasons...and still play.

 

[Nuklear]

I think 6/10 is a perfectly valid score for this game. The gameplay is VERY repetitive and the score should reflect that. Don't get me wrong I like the game but I won't be buying Destiny 2 unless they get creative with the story mode. I can't stomach another game of "kill waves of enemies while Dinklagebot hacks a door/computer". Seriously that is the entire story mode.

 

[void666]

I agree with all the negativity and i'm having a lot of fun anyway.
I never enjoyed a disappointing game so much. That's a weird feeling.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

I wouldn't expect anything in the first expansion unless they were way ahead of the criticism already. Expansion 2, which hopefully we get by March, may have a better chance in addressing narrative, agency, variety, and structure.

I agree, it's too late to add anything substantial for the first expansion, but they can certainly focus on that House of Wolves one, which I reckon could be a great chance to expand on the

Spoiler

Queen/Awoken's origin/Faction relations/Fallen's history

and such.

If they somehow could integrate the Grimoire into the main game... that would be a great move as well. If Bungie.net had advertising on their page, the only-online Grimiore move would make business sense due to the bump in page traffic.. but since they don't, it's just kind of odd.

 

[Bizmarkie76]

$500 million dollar budget.

 

[speculawyer]

I definitely could have used more cut scenes, after reading up on the Grimoire I really want to know more... I know you shouldn't have to read stuff on a website to get the story for the game, but in this case I think it's worth it.

I would say Bungie is taking on board the criticism of their storytelling choices, and will hopefully implement mucho story buzz in the expansions now (this, would be and an excellent move Bungie pls).

I wonder why they didn't make them? Did they not want to spend the money? Did they run out of time? Did they they think it wasn't worth making them because gamers wouldn't want them? Seems like they should make them but have them skippable for the people that don't care.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I agree with all the negativity and i'm having a lot of fun anyway.
I never enjoyed a disappointing game so much. That's a weird feeling.

Ditto.

 

[jwk94]

I'm still laughing over the reef being a planet on the hub screen. You go there twice for cutscenes. No need for it.

In my opinion this game deserves bad reviews. It was over hyped and feels shallow.

Part of me wants to be excited for that Reef event they have coming up simply because the Queen mentioned

Spoiler

You owing her a favor

but after finishing the story, I'm almost positive it won't be anything noteworthy. Honestly that should have been something that factored into the endgame content. Let her give us some more quests or side missions after we're done with the story. Right now that whole planet read wasted potential along with

Spoiler

that mysterious lady

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

$500 million dollar budget.

Why does this continually get brought up when it has been pointed out numerous times that it is inaccurate (edit, I should say highly misleading).

 

[Bizmarkie76]

Why does this continually get brought up when it has been pointed out numerous times that it is inaccurate?

My bad. $499 million dollar budget.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

My bad. $499 million dollar budget.

Show me anywhere that this game cost anywhere near that, go ahead, I'll wait.

Actually, don't bother, no need to waste my time.

Yes, it's true: Activision is spending half a billion dollars on Bungie's Destiny. Yes, that's true despite Bungie's statement that, "the budget for Destiny, including associated marketing costs and pizza Wednesdays, is nowhere near 500 million dollars." And that's because, when Activision head Bobby Kotick revealed that gargantuan number earlier this year, he was speaking to the entire franchise, not just this September's game.

"That number has been widely misinterpreted as a production number for the first game," Activision CEO Eric Hirshberg explained in an interview today at Gamescom. "That number is an all-inclusive number that's several years worth of investment, including marketing and several games, and a lot of up front investment in things like engines and tools that will be able to be used for years to come."

Source

 

[katsubento]

In a way, this industry is actually better than the auto press industry when it comes to enthusiast press because when's the last time you've ever seen a negative review for a $50k+ sports sedan?

Actually...that happens a lot. You just don't see it since no one gives hard "scores" to cars. You have to read the review and decide if the positives outweigh the negatives. The closest to a numbered score is when they do comparisons and rank them.

 

[LX_Theo]

Reviews press widely gives Game X middling reviews.

Gaming journalist-created conspiracy or the game has issues?

I'll let Occam's Razor do its work.

Like I said, simply dismissing the possibility opens up the opportunity for people to take advantage of you. It speaks nothing on whether its happening in a specific occasion. If you want to be stupid, feel free. But please don't preach it to others.

 

[Steel]

No I'm saying that reviews should be consistent and they aren't. It is as if Destiny was universally held out as a target to make an example of for whatever reason.

I'd prefer this end of the consistency meter than the BF4, ME3, Sim City, Diablo 3, Titanfall, Watch_Dogs end, personally.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Oh, I know it's not a grand conspiracy: I was puzzled at the time how Titanfall scored so well... I enjoyed the game quite a bit, but could feel from the outset that it had a super limited shelf life and that campaign multiplayer was just bung...I remember thinking at the time "huh.. they didn't mark down for that campaign multiplayer.. weird!".

No console war shenanigans here mate, I own everything there is... I couldn't give a flying toot about which is better, it is genuine curiosity now that we have to semi-similar games on review, and the way they are getting quite varied treatment, I find it a little weird is all.


No salty required, or did I mistake your edit as salt?

No, the edit in my part should have been a new post. Was added in because someone said something to the effect of 'reviewers changing overnight between how they treated Titanfall and Destiny' when there's been quite a few titles between from I think MGSGZ, Dark Souls 2, Watch_Dogs, and others that escape me. Sorry about that. And I just wasn't sure where you were trying to come from. Didn't mean to come off as accusatory as I did.

All you can do, to answer your curiosity, is look at who is reviewing the games instead of just the outlet and determining their taste and bias (everyone has bias, some can manage it better than others Gies). Sometimes that means looking into their Twitter, editorial pieces, and blogs. And yes, there was probably some sketchy things going on with Titanfall, but there's very little if any concrete support in that.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

I'd prefer this end of the consistency meter than the BF4, ME3, Sim City, Diablo 3, Titanfall, Watch_Dogs end, personally.

And I agree with you, like I said, lets see if this stays...or if Destiny was 'special' for whatever reason.

 

[Naughty_Doge]

I wonder why they didn't make them? Did they not want to spend the money? Did they run out of time? Did they they think it wasn't worth making them because gamers wouldn't want them? Seems like they should make them but have them skippable for the people that don't care.

I doubt it's about time or money. Activision clearly wasn't afraid to spend big on the game, and Destiny had a 6 years development cycle.

 

[Synth]

No I'm saying that reviews should be consistent and they aren't. It is as if Destiny was universally held out as a target to make an example of for whatever reason.

Reviews aren't consistent because the people reviewing them aren't. If we had a singular machine that we could simply feed the games into, and it popped out a single objective score for it, then you may get what you're wishing for. In reality though, different people like different things, and the same person may not even like the same thing as much the next week.

I'm not sure why everyone feels the need to introduce random games they seemingly didn't appreciate as a way of claiming Destiny is being hard done by. Maybe the people that reviewed Titanfall or Diablo 3, or whatever else, simply had more fun playing those games than they did playing Destiny. I've never played Diablo 3 (outside of the demo anyway), but I'd take Titanfall over Destiny every day of the week, and if I were a reviewer my scores for both games would reflect that.

There are those that just say it sucks without giving any reasons...and still play.

Who? Quote them.

 

[Bizmarkie76]

So many anywhere that this game cost anywhere near that, go ahead, I'll wait.

Actually, don't bother, no need to waste my time.



Source

So where's the part that says it doesnt cost $499 million dollars? All I see is "nowhere near $500 million" which could mean anything in PR speak.

 

[SparkTR]

So what do people think now that the game is out. Is this the largest game Bungie has every made by far in terms of content?

I personally don't understand why they didn't bother to put in more cut-scenes...

With the copy/paste mission design I'd expect there to be a bunch of content. None of it being interesting to play, but a bunch of it.

 

[katsubento]

Reviews aren't consistent because the people reviewing them aren't. If we had a singular machine that we could simply feed the games into, and it popped out a single objective score for it, then you may get what you're wishing for. In reality though, different people like different things, and the same person may not even like the same thing as much the next week.

I'm not sure why everyone feels the need to introduce random games they seemingly didn't appreciate as a way of claiming Destiny is being hard done by. Maybe the people that reviewed Titanfall or Diablo 3, or whatever else, simply had more fun playing those games than they did playing Destiny. I've never played Diablo 3 (outside of the demo anyway), but I'd take Titanfall over Destiny every day of the week, and if I were a reviewer my scores for both games would reflect that.



Who? Quote them.

Didn't mean here in the thread directly. People I talk to. There is an overwhelming negative attitude towards it since release but they still want to play it. I have never seen that before.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

No I'm saying that reviews should be consistent and they aren't. It is as if Destiny was universally held out as a target to make an example of for whatever reason.

I think it has something to do with the traditional gaming press not being treated like the important little flowers they imagine themselves to be. Criticism has changed. Anyone and everyone now has the ability to be a critic and amateurs absolutely can produce better, more thought provoking work than the old guard.

I honestly believe what we're witnessing is the death rattle of traditional gaming critique. Hence the recent glut of click bait articles, infighting and overall fringe opinions under the guise of journalism.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

So where's the part that says it doesnt cost $499 million dollars? All I see is "nowhere near $500 million" which could mean anything in PR speak.

The fact that the $500 million dollar budget takes into account the entire franchise that is being made throughout the next 5, 7, 10 years; including marketing and development. So to act like this game is costing anywhere near $500 million is pretty ridiculous...but you know that.