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Deus Ex: Mankind Divided |OT| We Asked For This
- Thread starter BaraSailey
- Start date
Ravensmash
Member
So I haven't played for a week but I'm jumping back in from where I left it (still quite early I think).
What's the consensus on here so far?
There was a wave of prerelease negativity when I left the threads last week!
What's the consensus on here so far?
There was a wave of prerelease negativity when I left the threads last week!
I don't see why this game isn't worth full price. I've gotten 25 hours out of it so far, the game is an absolute blast to play and I'll be playing more, plus I loved it. Can't really ask for more out of a game tbh.
Ravensmash
Member
Haha, as I thought. Always fun to follow the cycle.
flipswitch
Member
Is it possible to play this game any other way besides stealth, such as a shooter?
I'm not finding the shooting mechanics too hot, I can't imagine anyone playing it like that for the full duration.
Behind the cover and shooting isn't too bad, but playing in FPV is something different.
I'm not finding the shooting mechanics too hot, I can't imagine anyone playing it like that for the full duration.
Behind the cover and shooting isn't too bad, but playing in FPV is something different.
You can play quite offensively if you use abilities like Titan Shield, Nano Blade, Tesla charge and Icarus dash to quickly make omnidirectional dash during combat and also knock people out. There's also the focus aug that slows down time.
I am not ...
Disappointing story and not enough content for the damn 5 years wait.
5 years should be enough to produce a fucking masterpiece.
Pickup outline definitely, if you want the game to point out important interactive objects but not outline everything else then get the vision auguments that does that. Objective locators can be turned off as well, let's you be more into the game as you have to read the map and all.
Cover to cover is sometimes necessary because you would want to know if you will end up in cover or not if you do anything other than side to side cover switch.
flipswitch
Member
I should mention I only have access to like a shotgun, pistol and the taser gun you start off with. 6hrs in or so, mostly using stealth. Maybe I'll switch it up when I get more augs.
I just got my
I just got my
canister thing so that I won't overheat (sorry forgot the name)
Not enough content? That's just crazy.
And the bolded is you setting yourself up for disappointment. No matter how good a game is it can never satisfy that level of expectation as you will always find something to dislike.
Ravensmash
Member
Just remembered that I started playing round with the Aug menu.
I think I deactivated something... Please tell me that's not permanent?
I think I deactivated something... Please tell me that's not permanent?
Wrong.
Witcher 3 fulfilled all my expectations and more.
Do you realize how long 5 years is ? a 5 year long development ?!
Most games don't even get half ! That's insane !
Most great games take three years to produce.
This game is just a little above average.
Anyway, thanks to Jim Sterling we know what happened.
They better not take more than two years to bring the sequel ...
Again with Witcher 3. That game is an exception to the norm. I realise how long 5 years is, you know what else took 5 years? UC4. And it was no longer or full of content than UC3 yet it's a master piece for many. Expecting one game to be another is just illogical. You want another one ? MGS5.
"Little above average"? That's just absolute rubbish...what kind of games have you been playing to consider your average to be this high? This is like saying because a game didn't meet the industry best it's sub par. That is setting yourself up for high expectations through and through.
Absolutely no one except for you has said a single thing about "lack of content" in a 20+ hour game.
The Witcher 3 is the new standard according to which I shall judge all games from now on.
DOOM for example is a game that is much above average. Dark Souls 3 too. Bloodborne is GOAT material. DEMD is just ok.
Finished it, and I'll admit, I'm a bit conflicted about the whole experience.
As a game, simply by virtue of being an immersive sim, I find it more interesting than most experiences out there - but as a Deus Ex title, a franchise I mainly associate with boldness and ambition, I find it strangely coy and safe. Warning: disjointed rambling ahead!
I hate to speak in terms of "consumer expectations", especially in regards to story content, but I still feel it's an important factor to consider for this specific title. Human Revolution avoided this trapping by being a prequel set far enough into the past that it could afford to tell its "own" story - still linked to the overarching world building and themes set up in the original DX, but still definitely its own. Jensen was built as a character to embody these themes and it fit them perfectly. HR could afford having only passing references to DX events and characters - they weren't the core focus of the plot. Here, however, even though the game attempts to tell "just" a side story (or at least, that's my takeaway), the timeline almost demands to set up some specific events and characters leading to DX, and I find Mankind Divided sidesteps them, as though it were too shy to tackle its lineage head on.
I understand it aims to tell a different story, but at this point, it feels like setting a game in the Castlevania franchise in 1999, a date with *some* importance to players of the series - except that story would only be about Julius Belmont going to buy supplies before fighting Dracula. Sure, it's a story, but it's not the story that has the most meaning in regards to the franchise as a whole or its core themes.
This feels to me like a marketing failure: they either wanted to ease new players in by having as few associations with other series' titles as possible (which makes as little sense here as it did in Mass Effect 3), or they want to keep expanding the universe as far as they can and keep telling stories/making new games within it, but actually stretch the timeline too thin (a good example of how it could work is the Star Wars expanded universe, or at least how it was before it was reset)
Using Jensen as a returning character feels unnecessary, since his story arc was complete in the previous opus. This one is now stuck between being a character retread (new and mysterious augmentations! Where do *these ones* come from *this time*?), a new theme that's also an expansion to the previous games' (the tension between augmented and naturals) and the "missing link" leading to DX (the Illuminatis, and all the micro events setuping the situation DX starts in).
I feel giving a new character a chance to experience the events of MD would have given them more meaning, and be more thematically coherent with the rest of the series - possibly even allowing the game to fit more as a side-story, since it possibly wouldn't even need to tackle the Illuminatis and their actions (even though arguably a core facet of Deus Ex *is* conspiracy stuff, but it's also centered around conflicting world views amidst a changing world order - MD could have that simply with the augs vs. naturals, with a touch of Illuminati for good measure, experienced from the eyes of someone that isn't so deep that his only focus *is* and *should be* the Illuminati conspiracy). But because it stars Jensen, who's now too far implicated in the core events, the Illuminaty conspiracy (and thus, its link leading to DX) *has* to matter... and it doesn't that much - not in the main plot, and not even as hints to find by exploring the world (I found far less references leading to DX than in HR). I agree that the story presented here has its own narrative arc leading to a conclusion... but it doesn't feel like a story that was worth telling, not considering *this* character at *this* point in time in an established series.
Does the problem lie with the intent to keep expanding the universe? Does it lie with having to re-use Jensen as a marketing figurehead? I'm not sure, but the overally feeling I have coming out of MD is that it's a game that desperately tries to play it safe, mechanically and thematically.
It sets itself in a key moment in an established series, yet does everything it can to distance itself from the events that matter (different geographical context, seemingly different story themes, different core cast). It still uses established series characters and callbacks: Jensen, Manderley, Bob Page, VersaLife, NSF, the Illuminati - and underuses them at every turn, since none of them do, think or say anything important or relevant to what's coming/what should be happening.
If the game was truly about being a side story and show "the universe at large": fine! Really make it one, then! I'm not sure how feasible it'd be in the context of such a series about sweeping events changing the world order, but more personal story arcs have a place to exist in there, too, if only to show the existence of other people during these times - but then, don't use Jensen as a central figure, since by definition he's *not* just any person in this series of events.
DX has always been a series I associate with ambition: even Invisible War, arguably its greatest failing, had the ambition to translate the systems of an intrisically complex genre to a machine that couldn't handle them at the time.
But where IW failed by being too ambitious, I feel MD mildly succeeds by simply being there, and not really daring to try one way or another.
As political commentary, MD feels even less enlightened than its siblings since it tackles and parellels contemporary events, rather than trying to foresee and predict future ones. As a personal story, it falls flat, since Jensen already had a satisfying character arc. As a world event story, it doesn't matter in the overall context, since most references that *could* mean anything are left to subtext and interpretation (as much as I like that and think games need more of it, there is a time and place for everything, and again, HR had more references to DX than MD does). As a smaller scope story, it doesn't fit since it implicates characters that DO matter in the events that should lead to DX.
So where does that leave MD? I feel it's still a fantastic "game", albeit a misguided one. It tries to play it safe in a series defined by ambition. Jensen's iconography in the previous title was Icarus, who dies trying to fly too close to the sun - ironically, here, the game doesn't even really try to lift off the ground, and is content to rest on the achievements of the others.
Mechanically, it's a refinement of what was in HR - meaning it's still a far cry from what was in DX, but it's the best we're going to get in a console driven industrial environment.
Everywhere else, though... calling it a step back would be too harsh, as its simply stagnant. A non-iteration, that one could cynically accuse of simply being there to keep cashing in on the brand name.
TL
R: I liked playing MD, and still think it's one of the better games of the year by virtue of its genre, but I'd almost rank it lower than Invisible War in the franchise - at least, IW had ambition, even if it crashed and burned on almost all fronts.
And now for some speculation and other stuff:
-I was convinced TF29 was the setup leading to
. Are there clear, definite answers, hints or subtext leading one way or the other, or is it left to interpretation?
-on a similar note: isn't Orchid very similar to
? It sure feels like Orchid is the basis for
... but again, not even a hint is given one way or another (though I'll admit I didn't play the bank heist mission, I went for Allison instead).
-I didn't expect to interact with Gunther, Anna or Paul, but it feels HR had more character links, emails and and interactions leading to the original. Were there hidden hints anywhere in the game about more characters/events leading to DX that I missed? (I played every side mission except for Otar's).
-I agree with an above poster: why doesn't anyone hide their augmentations under their clothes?! Jensen obviously can't mask everything, and he still covers most of it, so why don't the rest of them, especially in a context of such blatant segregation?!
-what about poor Aria? Most characters have some form of resolution to their character subplots during the
segment, but she barely has a throwaway line about being
before Jensen immediately walks away - it seemed like a much more important deal to her (and Jensen) than the time and context allowed for that line implied. Also, if she really does become an active agent again... does that mean she's part of the team in
?
As a game, simply by virtue of being an immersive sim, I find it more interesting than most experiences out there - but as a Deus Ex title, a franchise I mainly associate with boldness and ambition, I find it strangely coy and safe. Warning: disjointed rambling ahead!
I hate to speak in terms of "consumer expectations", especially in regards to story content, but I still feel it's an important factor to consider for this specific title. Human Revolution avoided this trapping by being a prequel set far enough into the past that it could afford to tell its "own" story - still linked to the overarching world building and themes set up in the original DX, but still definitely its own. Jensen was built as a character to embody these themes and it fit them perfectly. HR could afford having only passing references to DX events and characters - they weren't the core focus of the plot. Here, however, even though the game attempts to tell "just" a side story (or at least, that's my takeaway), the timeline almost demands to set up some specific events and characters leading to DX, and I find Mankind Divided sidesteps them, as though it were too shy to tackle its lineage head on.
I understand it aims to tell a different story, but at this point, it feels like setting a game in the Castlevania franchise in 1999, a date with *some* importance to players of the series - except that story would only be about Julius Belmont going to buy supplies before fighting Dracula. Sure, it's a story, but it's not the story that has the most meaning in regards to the franchise as a whole or its core themes.
This feels to me like a marketing failure: they either wanted to ease new players in by having as few associations with other series' titles as possible (which makes as little sense here as it did in Mass Effect 3), or they want to keep expanding the universe as far as they can and keep telling stories/making new games within it, but actually stretch the timeline too thin (a good example of how it could work is the Star Wars expanded universe, or at least how it was before it was reset)
Using Jensen as a returning character feels unnecessary, since his story arc was complete in the previous opus. This one is now stuck between being a character retread (new and mysterious augmentations! Where do *these ones* come from *this time*?), a new theme that's also an expansion to the previous games' (the tension between augmented and naturals) and the "missing link" leading to DX (the Illuminatis, and all the micro events setuping the situation DX starts in).
I feel giving a new character a chance to experience the events of MD would have given them more meaning, and be more thematically coherent with the rest of the series - possibly even allowing the game to fit more as a side-story, since it possibly wouldn't even need to tackle the Illuminatis and their actions (even though arguably a core facet of Deus Ex *is* conspiracy stuff, but it's also centered around conflicting world views amidst a changing world order - MD could have that simply with the augs vs. naturals, with a touch of Illuminati for good measure, experienced from the eyes of someone that isn't so deep that his only focus *is* and *should be* the Illuminati conspiracy). But because it stars Jensen, who's now too far implicated in the core events, the Illuminaty conspiracy (and thus, its link leading to DX) *has* to matter... and it doesn't that much - not in the main plot, and not even as hints to find by exploring the world (I found far less references leading to DX than in HR). I agree that the story presented here has its own narrative arc leading to a conclusion... but it doesn't feel like a story that was worth telling, not considering *this* character at *this* point in time in an established series.
Does the problem lie with the intent to keep expanding the universe? Does it lie with having to re-use Jensen as a marketing figurehead? I'm not sure, but the overally feeling I have coming out of MD is that it's a game that desperately tries to play it safe, mechanically and thematically.
It sets itself in a key moment in an established series, yet does everything it can to distance itself from the events that matter (different geographical context, seemingly different story themes, different core cast). It still uses established series characters and callbacks: Jensen, Manderley, Bob Page, VersaLife, NSF, the Illuminati - and underuses them at every turn, since none of them do, think or say anything important or relevant to what's coming/what should be happening.
If the game was truly about being a side story and show "the universe at large": fine! Really make it one, then! I'm not sure how feasible it'd be in the context of such a series about sweeping events changing the world order, but more personal story arcs have a place to exist in there, too, if only to show the existence of other people during these times - but then, don't use Jensen as a central figure, since by definition he's *not* just any person in this series of events.
At this point, he's even more messianic than JC, the guy with *that* name!
DX has always been a series I associate with ambition: even Invisible War, arguably its greatest failing, had the ambition to translate the systems of an intrisically complex genre to a machine that couldn't handle them at the time.
(Full disclosure: yes, I like IW)
As political commentary, MD feels even less enlightened than its siblings since it tackles and parellels contemporary events, rather than trying to foresee and predict future ones. As a personal story, it falls flat, since Jensen already had a satisfying character arc. As a world event story, it doesn't matter in the overall context, since most references that *could* mean anything are left to subtext and interpretation (as much as I like that and think games need more of it, there is a time and place for everything, and again, HR had more references to DX than MD does). As a smaller scope story, it doesn't fit since it implicates characters that DO matter in the events that should lead to DX.
So where does that leave MD? I feel it's still a fantastic "game", albeit a misguided one. It tries to play it safe in a series defined by ambition. Jensen's iconography in the previous title was Icarus, who dies trying to fly too close to the sun - ironically, here, the game doesn't even really try to lift off the ground, and is content to rest on the achievements of the others.
Mechanically, it's a refinement of what was in HR - meaning it's still a far cry from what was in DX, but it's the best we're going to get in a console driven industrial environment.
Everywhere else, though... calling it a step back would be too harsh, as its simply stagnant. A non-iteration, that one could cynically accuse of simply being there to keep cashing in on the brand name.
TL
R: I liked playing MD, and still think it's one of the better games of the year by virtue of its genre, but I'd almost rank it lower than Invisible War in the franchise - at least, IW had ambition, even if it crashed and burned on almost all fronts.And now for some speculation and other stuff:
-I was convinced TF29 was the setup leading to
MJ12
-on a similar note: isn't Orchid very similar to
the Grey Death
the virus eventually developed to keep the population in check
-I didn't expect to interact with Gunther, Anna or Paul, but it feels HR had more character links, emails and and interactions leading to the original. Were there hidden hints anywhere in the game about more characters/events leading to DX that I missed? (I played every side mission except for Otar's).
-I agree with an above poster: why doesn't anyone hide their augmentations under their clothes?! Jensen obviously can't mask everything, and he still covers most of it, so why don't the rest of them, especially in a context of such blatant segregation?!
-what about poor Aria? Most characters have some form of resolution to their character subplots during the
Prague Lockdown
"deemed fit for active duty again by McCready"
London
Wow, i guess i owe a lot of journalists an apology. Seems they were right all along with the whole 'gamers entitlement' thingy during the Mass effect 3 debacle. Scheesh...
With anti consumer moves like cutting a game in half to sell two games, DLC, Denuvo etc comes entitlement.
Also read the lengthy review just above to better understand my point of view.
Ok..
Do we even know for sure when development started? I mean, Human Revolution Director's cut released in 2013, so..
For me price and content is justified. It's a deeper, mechanically more matured sequel to an already awesome game. Got about 30 h out if it in my first run.
Last mission spoilers:
Curious which mission people took. Saving the delegates or facing Marcelo. I saved the delegates and expected the bombs of Marchenko to go off , but was surprised I still got enough time to run up to him and defeat him (non-lethally). Is doing both here always meant to happen or was I just that fast and by that found a hidden solution to solve both problems at once (similar to the Malik mission in HR)
It doesn't really matter though.
The longer a sequel takes to come out, the higher the expectations will be.
Imagine for a second if Half Life 3 was announced. It would have to be the GOTY to not disappoint most fans.
Cutting a game in half...yea right.
Because it's totally reasonable to expect that the game would have had another hub as large and dense as Prague, which is already the densest play area in any game till date, plus some other missions on top.
Before you make that conclusion you probably should try to understand how complex it is to make a game with non linear structure like Deus Ex. I am not talking about just the size of the world.
I'd say that's quite a naive way of seeing game development and only setting yourself up to disappointment.
I don't expect Nintendo f.e. to work on the new 3D Mario since the release date of 3D world and I certainly wouldn't rate games on a perceived development time that should somehow overlap with the time gone since the predecessor released
Played a couple hours today. Got to Golem City, I'm liking the game but admittedly it does feel like more of Human Revolution, instead of a sequel. Which isn't bad considering I like the gameplay loop HR had, but it does make me a little sad that it feels like a big expansion. Still, more HR is never a bad thing.
Most fans just want a good game and they don't concern themselves with whether or not it gets awarded GOTY by media. For me personally I don't let what the media says about the game and what other games do to affect my judgement of what a game is on it's own.
Souls games for instance are great but I'd be lying if I said these games use the same formula and play very similar (yes I know all about how different they are, so don't bother explaining). But it doesn't matter because that gameplay in the end is great and nothing else provides the same experience. I feel the same about Deus Ex...I can't get this experience anywhere else.
I don't care about Half Life so it was just used as an example.
But it's not really naive. It's jus the truth. I've been on Gaf long enough to understand how hype works. And trust me, the longer a game takes to come out, the more demanding the players will be.
APZonerunner
Member
To your spoiler question about the final mission:
It's based on time. Whichever one you chose you get around 10-15 minutes to do, and then when you finish that the second one you get 10 minutes for.
There's different stages, too. So if you have the Orchid antidote from the bank, you can use that on Miller or, I believe, you can get to the delegates too late, and use it there. Or you can get to the delegates so late they're already dead. Not sure about that bit. What I am sure about is that if you take too long to reach/beat Marchenko you can use the signal jammer the bomb maker gives you if you save her to buy yourself more time. So it's all about time ultimately, but if you chose the bank or the bomb maker also has an impact in a sense, as doing so can grant you a bit more time if you're not fast enough.
There's different stages, too. So if you have the Orchid antidote from the bank, you can use that on Miller or, I believe, you can get to the delegates too late, and use it there. Or you can get to the delegates so late they're already dead. Not sure about that bit. What I am sure about is that if you take too long to reach/beat Marchenko you can use the signal jammer the bomb maker gives you if you save her to buy yourself more time. So it's all about time ultimately, but if you chose the bank or the bomb maker also has an impact in a sense, as doing so can grant you a bit more time if you're not fast enough.
drotahorror
Member
Is it possible to do a part of a mission you haven't received yet and fail it because you did it out of order? Like I read about this clock secret room and how it's part of a mission. If I go there now will I fail that mission when I get it later on since I've already been to it?
I've already experienced failing a mission that I already had by doing it out of order.
I've already experienced failing a mission that I already had by doing it out of order.
You unknowingly found the right solution.
I saved the delegates and then defeated Marchenko. There are two ways to achieve both. If you have the jammer then you need to go to the delegates unseen and then go back to Marchenko after you save them..you also need to be unseen in the party area when you have to go up against 11 guards for this to be possible. I believe there is also a timer here which is 10-15 mins long.
The other way is to do the heist mission for the cure which you use to save delegates and then find a killswitch for Marchenko so when he is about to blow up the bomb instead of activating the jammer you kill him with the killswitch. I'm not sure how saving the delegates comes into play if you have the cure. I don't k ow if you still have to make s run for them or if it makes a difference with timer compared to when you make a run for then without cure or if you run out of cure if you give it to miller.
Some ways you can only achieve one:
1) Get seen while going for the delegates or in the party area.
2) Have the orchid cure and go fight Marchenko without using the killswitch.
3) Pretty sure another one is that you go for the delegates but take too long to get to Marchenko.
The other way is to do the heist mission for the cure which you use to save delegates and then find a killswitch for Marchenko so when he is about to blow up the bomb instead of activating the jammer you kill him with the killswitch. I'm not sure how saving the delegates comes into play if you have the cure. I don't k ow if you still have to make s run for them or if it makes a difference with timer compared to when you make a run for then without cure or if you run out of cure if you give it to miller.
Some ways you can only achieve one:
1) Get seen while going for the delegates or in the party area.
2) Have the orchid cure and go fight Marchenko without using the killswitch.
3) Pretty sure another one is that you go for the delegates but take too long to get to Marchenko.
Last mission seems to be dependant on several things which is why I found it so good.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
How do you holster your gun again?
Nevermind, it's in the radial menu.
Nevermind, it's in the radial menu.
That or tap square/X and then press L2/LB
Its not that you fail the mission, you just finish the quest early. In case of SM00 it's an investigstion that leads to final room, but if you won't investigate and go to the final room then you have nothing base your conclusion on, so you finish the quest early. Granted it would have been nice if the game considered that.
In case of the clock, it's a story mission. So I don't think it gets affected in any way.
packy34
Member
It's better than HR which is all I really care about. Haven't finished the story yet, but so far, nothing about it has felt weak or disappointing.
drotahorror
Member
Thanks nOoblet16, I'm actually just on the last step of SM00 since I reloaded a save the other day. I'm also very glad they fixed sprinting on steps. That was annoying as hell.
Finished the game on hard at 36 hours. Good game, even though it felt artificially inflated towards the end. Loading times made traveling through the train tracks incredibly tedious, especially when you're forced to do it back and forth to finish side-quests
Still enjoyed the story in HR. This one didn't have enough revelations and conspiracies!
Still enjoyed the story in HR. This one didn't have enough revelations and conspiracies!
the black pearl
Member
Is there a way to do the 'dig up dirt on the palisade' mission without
. I chickened out on that and I cant instant message him anymore.
messaging the one guy about a new tech.
Rap2thaMoon
Member
Does anybody have a problem getting the ghost rating on the first part of
? I received smooth operator yet for some reason can't get the ghost rating even when I redid it multiple times with different routes with 0 detections by enemies or cameras.
Rucker extraction, getting through the barracks
You mean the security guy in the bank itself ?
The story does feel rather inconsequential but the world and the levels are so intricate I really don't see how this can be considered worse than HR. HR levels for the most part were mostly set out in a linear path and about getting from point A to B. There were of course different ways to take that path. Here however the objectives can be tackled in an order which the player wishes and the path you take is not necessarily in a single forward direction. Not to mention the hidden objectives which are never mentioned and it's up to the player to find them in the level. Mankind Divided does the larger hub (Prague) and mini hub (Palisade) levels expertly and is probably the best example of this design philosophy since the original.
the black pearl
Member
I think so. I barely paid attention to the conspiracy guy. I know I need to get dirt on someone, and I'm just following the mission marker. But it looked like I could have fooled some security dupe into thinking some tech was needed in the place, and I dont see another way to get to the mission marker.
Haven't played Witcher 3 but I can't imagine it has the freedom of playstyle/choices/etc that MD has. Doom/DS/BB certainly don't. I'm disappointed certain technical things weren't improved more from HR, but it's not easy to build games like this quickly. Every player will have different augments, different paths to objectives, do things in different orders and the game has to account for every scenario. There are reasons games like Deus Ex are extremely rare these days. We're lucky to get both this and Dishonored.
The code he asks for is lying somewhere around in one of the offices, don't remember which. But you don't need that to be able to finish the mission, the bank has multiple paths leading up to any given area, the main room you need to get to has 3 entry points in itself, each of which are connected to other paths that have their own branching paths.
I'd just say explore the bank, it's one of the best areas in the game. Although exploring it too much makes on of the optional missions later on itmn the game quite easy hah.
Nope.
Regginator
Member
I have them all turned off, expect for cover to cover line and the interaction option (not the outline). Much more immersive that way instead of the objective locators and mini-map chewing everything for you.
It basically looks something like this for me:
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