Uno Venova
Banned
And people really came down on others for being skeptical of the impact of secret sauce, even accused of "not wanting or refusing to believe".
DF: Orbis vs Durango Spec Analysis
- Thread starter iamshadowlark
- Start date
velociraptor
Junior Member
Except the Pixar movie is pre-rendered with a shedload of AA. On the other hand, games are produced on screen, in real time, in all their jaggical mess.
And what about 720 + AA(MLAA, MSAA, FXAA etc)?
What the hell are you talking about Willis?
Boss Man
Member
Er, I don't doubt that does have a lot to do with lead development and how much effort may be put into a port. You see better looking PS3 games with less problems when development starts on PS3.
SaggyMonkey
Member
Did someone say sauce?
H_Prestige
Banned
MS dedicating more RAM to OS doesn't mean it will be a better media player. Was 360 a better media device than the ps3? No it wasn't. MS putting a big, bloated OS in the 720...simply means they're putting a big, bloated OS in the 720.
Manmademan
Member
Durango is going to be integrating kinect and it's visual recognition and voice searching capabilities as standard and using an "always on" setup to allow you to control the box, even in standby, which will eat a LOT more ram than the 360 or PS3 need. It's also been speculated that it's going to be running some variant of windows 8, as microsoft designed that OS to unify their services across phones (windows phone 8), desktops (windows 8), and tablets (surface). The PS3 and Vita OS is a lot more barebones than this.
I am still very interested to see how the RAM differences play out. The 512mb number for the PS4 OS seems likely to hold, especially now that we've heard about the recording features and stuff like video chat through the new PSeye. Durango's will not be staying a 3gb, it just doesn't make sense. I could see 2-2.5 gb though. Considering both have elements to help mitigate the shortcomings of their RAM situation I'm very curious to see which is going to be more effective at that.
MS tears.
HollovVpo1nt
Banned
Debatable.
Dude, software optimisation is Microsoft's prime expertise. If the next Xbox will have a 3GB OS footprint, you bet that there a good reasons for that. Especially because they're extremely focussed on efficiency.
yea that sounds BS to me. MS and SONY will surely push 1080p in their next machines for sure. we dont even have 720p these days in the market
It's the Leadbetter way.
Probably Kinect/win 8 support, imho, nothing to be so crazy, I'm totally disinterested to the motion control & win 8 is something completely useless in a console.
I just hope it's better than Windows 8....
SuperDaE hasn't really said anything reliable in a long, long time. It's also too late for much of a GPU or CPU clock increase for the consoles. There may be mild changes in one or the other but nothing major.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Video cards don't have shared memory but memory that is dedicated to graphics rendering. The PS4 has to use some that 4GB for other code.
Devs don't like Durango setup because it requires more optimization on the memory end.
It's funny, and sad, how much it looks like MS is fucking up regarding their next console. In a way I hope they fail so they can realize that trying to please everyone will only leave you short.
It had nothing to do with the skepticism. I think those who kept an open mind were also skeptical at the same time.
Instead it had everything to do with the automatic dismissal of any good possibility surrounding a console they had already hoped was inferior. It's stupid how those people seemingly already had their minds made up when we didn't know the details.
And this is the sony-gaf hivemind response to anything DF they don't agree with. SMH.
It had nothing to do with the skepticism. I think those who kept an open mind were also skeptical at the same time.
Instead it had everything to do with the automatic dismissal of any good possibility surrounding a console they had already hoped was inferior. It's stupid how those people seemingly already had their minds made up when we didn't know the details.
And this is the sony-gaf hivemind response to anything DF they don't agree with. SMH.
Manmademan
Member
windows 8 runs quite well. better than 7. It's the interface that's the problem- it's not ideal for desktops without touch capability. Microsoft is banking on tablets and touch enabled desktops and laptops becoming standard and designed the OS around that.
I'm not so sure they're "fucking up." microsoft's entire goal here was to establish a presence in the living room, in case set top boxes replaced the desktop/laptop market. Before the PS2 was a thing, they launched "ultimate tv" to compete with web tv and satellite boxes for the same reason.
We're seeing the market gradually shift more functionality towards the set top box for media purposes with things like googletv, appletv, netflix , amazon instant video etc becoming the big draw, with videogames being a secondary function, even among people who own consoles- microsoft's own research for how people were using the Xbox backed this up. So their next machine seems to be designed for the casual, media centric user with games being less important. Theres also the rumor of an xbox without the ability to play disc based games that would be distributed as a cable box that backs this up.
Tallshortman
Member
Games barely utilize 2GB of RAM these days on modern PCs. The size of it is not a bottleneck.
Well, I don't think it works in this way, in the microsoft plans. They are more interested (seems) to push Durango in the same path of the past Wii, why should they care about the internet opinion?
Eh, but isn't a console basically a desktop? I mean..I doubt many people are going to have touchscreen TV's. And even if they did, who is going to walk across the room and use their TV that way.
So okay, Tablets. Again, just seems kind of silly. I'm not going to use my tablet over my controller. So it's basically Windows 8 - again, but using a controller to go up and down the tiles. I mean, obviously I'm assuming. Maybe there will be tweaks just for the console version. Windows 8 only makes sense to me on tablets/phones.
I use Desktop mode 100% of the time after the first month of having Windows 8, because I didn't like them. More hassle than they were worth.
Are you Leadbetter? I admit it, I have no shame to be a sony fan, but I critic them a lot of times differently to him, in any case not needs to be offensive for this; I haven't offence your mum at the end.
Exactly.
He did not offense you by any means. The mere fact that you take it as such says a lot about your Sony bias, but everybody knows your blood pressure reaches painful levels when Sony comes under criticism.
Take it easy man, it's just vidya gaemz.
H_Prestige
Banned
What does that have to do with media?
360 OS was better than ps3 OS, but it sucked as a media player. Because MS doesn't care about that part. Their aim is to integrate Windows and MS marketplace into all their products, not to create the best media player.
If 720 has 3GB for OS, I can think of a good reason. Because it's running fucking Windows, which needs a lot of RAM to run smoothly.
About the efficiency part, is this against cost or performance?
Either way is an advantage and that is always good, just need some clearer picture..
Manmademan
Member
The next xbox has already been confirmed to be able to use voice navigation, and hand gestures to control the interface from anywhere in the room. You won't have to "walk over to the tv" to control it.
go google microsoft's demo for "smartglass" to see what they intend to do with tablets. and again, as for control it will be using kinect gesture recognition. swipe your hand in mid air from anywhere, or simply speak and you can navigate tiles.
That's your preference. microsoft designed windows 8 to unify their experience across platforms. so using windows on a phone, or a tablet, or a desktop, or possibly the xbox would be more or less the same experience for a user. there would be no adjustment period or training wheels needed, you automatically know how to do what you want to do no matter what device you would be using.
TheGreyHulk
Member
Screw the ram. Next Xbox will have 5-6gb avail for developers, ps4 3.5gb or more if the rumors of them increasing the ram are true.
Who cares though, there's a big gap in shader power that favors orbis by a decent amount. Special sauce isn't going to do anything to fix that, period.
Who cares though, there's a big gap in shader power that favors orbis by a decent amount. Special sauce isn't going to do anything to fix that, period.
What was the event or feature that allowed 360 to dominate PS3? Halo didnt help Xbox 1 that much, I imagine LIVE, a year head start, new ip like Gears and Sony's stumbled high MSRP launch all added up to a win for 360. Who will drop the ball this gen, maybe it will be like a joust and one competitor will get knocked down immediately. MS probably has some momentum from 360, even if PS4 is superior, it may not matter if 360 users stay loyal to MS. PS2 had huge loyalty from the immense PS1 user base, so many of them would dismiss DC Soul Calibur due to the belief anything on PS2 would be way better. Loyalty is the huge X factor and possible equalizer for this next gen launch.
Yeah but the issue then is, who wants Windows 8?
Is it really worth sacrificing other elements of the console for it? Correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't Windows 8...kind of flopping? So basically they are pushing a platform that isn't doing so hot on mobile, tablets and desktop onto their next game console - in hopes that that the platform becomes more accepted.
Going back to what I just said, in my head - I can't imagine how Windows 8 would be any better. I guess if Kinect 2.0 is actually mind blowingly amazing, and it works to perfection (no issues with height, distance, room size etc.). And people used their hands to motion the tiles etc.
Yeah, was just getting to that. Don't really care about smartglass, but the voice/hand gesture thing might make it more viable. Still, it would have to work flawlessly to make it worth it. I guess I'm just not all that jazzed about it. I don't like Windows 8, nor do I want it on a console. THAT SAID - I fully admit that this is my own personal opinion (for now) - and that, that doesn't mean it can't be successful. So I was just looking at how it could be successful. I forgot about Kinect and motion controls. So that puts an end to my question in this thread. Unlike desktops, it could be successful with Kinect.
People keep saying its too late to change now. But those rumored specs are from early 2012.
Boss Man
Member
That 3rd party games that run better on 360 do not look better than first/second party PS3 games? I don't think that's very debatable.
What's debatable is whether the lead development situation has more to do with hardware, sales, or tools.
yea thats actually what i am thinking too. why wouldnt it be possible to change the specs since the launch was like 2 years from there
TheLaughingStock
Member
That's pretty much what display calibrators say when reviewing TVs. In addition, a lot of the content out there doesn't have the greatest PQ quality. I don't have Vudu HDX/Blu-ray PQ quality playing on my set all the time. I'm sure Sony/MS will live if their games aren't 1080p with stellar IQ and effects.
Manmademan
Member
not really- it's not selling the numbers that say, windows 7 did- but this has as much or more to do with the desktop/laptop market being eaten alive by tablets and to a lesser extent phones.
Microsoft's failure to gain traction in the phone and tablet market isn't a reflection of the OS- most reviews on windows phone 8 and surface are positive. the problem is that they were WAY too late to both markets, and only dipped a toe in after IOS and android were well established.
this is exactly what they're doing, and it makes sense- at least more sense than having windows on desktop, windows on phones, and windows on tablets being three entirely disconnected operating systems. Again, the xbox is one of their more successful entries into a new market. taking advantage of that position to promote other sectors of the business is common sense.
kinect 2 is going to be using a higher resolution version of the kinect 1 tech, so recognition of individual fingers, not just broad hand gestures will be possible. It's also going to be using "always on" voice recognition tech like siri and google voice, so we already have a good idea of what it can do.
Microsoft isn't interested in winning a console war here, it wants to position itself into making appletv or googletv obsolete in the living room, and with the xbox making money on games it can afford to do this while selling the hardware at no profit margin.
Well I wouldn't say brushing away, but instead trying to please both the mainstream and core evenly when that's just not possible. No matter what, something has to suffer and by putting more of a focus on the mainstream right at launch, the core look to be suffering, at least with the hardware they seem to be offering. It's still too early to say how the software output will be.
Interesting article. Gave a nice view on how the new consoles will operate.
I'm just wondering whether Durango will be substantially weaker graphics-wise than Orbis. Media center focus is fine, but there are many people who just want to play games on their consoles only.
At least it sounds like the difficulties devs had with 3rd party games for the PS wont be an issue for next generation. Nice to hear.
I'm just wondering whether Durango will be substantially weaker graphics-wise than Orbis. Media center focus is fine, but there are many people who just want to play games on their consoles only.
At least it sounds like the difficulties devs had with 3rd party games for the PS wont be an issue for next generation. Nice to hear.
[/QUOTE]
its selling exactly the same numbers windows 7 did
you know the best selling OS ever
If you understand hardware design and what it entails, a year in not long at all. You cannot just upgrade the cpu or gpu and sprinkle the 'just work' dust. You can of course but these consoles are on a timed schedule. There would be significant delays because of changes to the hardware and your toolset.
So buy Orbis, its not a big deal.
Next-gen is shaping up to have the most unique set of consoles competing against one another which is great for gamers.
TacticalFox88
Banned
The current one hasn't ended yet, :lol
Manmademan
Member
you're half right. windows 8 sales were originally Far below microsoft's targets for the OS but have since caught up to being "on par."
Giving away the OS for 40 dollars probably had a lot to do with the increase though- we'll have to see whether microsoft sustains that now that the promotion is expired.
dynamitejim
Member
I think they're kind of downplaying the advantages of the PS4 if these specs are true. Having twice the ROPs and 50% more compute power is a big advantage. Given a multiplatform game targeting 720p, PS4 basically gets 2x AA for free compared to X720. Shader based AA will be cheaper as well with more compute power. The PS4 likely has more texturing units (72 vs 48), meaning higher quality texture filtering. Devs may even be able to render at a higher resolution internally, say 1600x900. Knowing what Sony's 1st party developers are capable of, there should be an even more noticeable difference between 1st party games on both platforms.
BruiserBear
Banned
This is not true, and yet people keep on repeating it. The most recent leaks have been very recent info, on development kits as they are today. Basically final specs.
You think this is going to end? lol
Manmademan
Member
no one's disputing this. but it's likely that third party games won't take advantage of Orbis specific hardware advantages- at least not to the degree where anyone really gives a shit.
In terms of the next COD or Assassin's creed, it will likely be a wash, or so close that only hardcore fans will notice, with orbis having the advantage.
First party games on Orbis will look a lot better, but then again first party PS3 games tend to look a lot better than the 360's efforts. It'll be a repeat of this gen, give or take a couple million consoles for bragging rights about who's in first and who's in second.
H_Prestige
Banned
Will it be difficult to take advantage of all the extra hardware resources in Orbis? Because that was the case with ps3 and CELL. Or would porting a Durango game to Orbis simply be like porting to a higher end PC?