We know what the XB1 can do and its features. I'm talking about how the consoles ended up "at launch" (not sales-wise), and I think we know enough to be able to discuss that.
Did PS4's focus on gaming prove to make a difference between it and Xbox One?
- Thread starter VanWinkle
- Start date
We know what the XB1 can do and its features. I'm talking about how the consoles ended up "at launch" (not sales-wise), and I think we know enough to be able to discuss that.
How are they comparable game wise? Every multiplatform game performs better on the cheaper console which has comparable gaming features now, i mean a party system basically which was the bigger diferentiator between live and psn on current gen. Isn't live streaming delayed on the Xbone? That seems to be a big hit with early PS4 adopters. Again, sounds to me like you're trying to downplay some evidently distinct features the PS4 has over the Xbone, based on rushed launch titles and especulation.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
As I was saying all along, there's no substantial difference between what Sony and Microsoft want to accomplish. They both want to have the mass market all-in-one digital hub of choice, eventually (PS3 only did everything, after all). The difference is/was mostly in messaging, and their marketing approaches, i.e. their priorities for the launch period.
I meant comparable in focus on gaming. Live streaming, I BELIEVE, is there at launch of XB1, but not to Twitch. PS4 has feature advantages, like Remote Play and Twitch streaming at launch, and then XB1 has feature advantages, like being in a media app or I think they said even another game, while you're waiting for matchmaking to match you up with someone in the game you're playing, and free dedicated servers and cloud compute to devs. Most of the gaming features are the same, so factoring in the advantages each has, I' say they're mostly at parity.
andromeduck
Member
sony is playing the long game on this one, they're saving the heavy hitting games until their sales need another kick early next year - there's no point in playing all you're cards if you'll end up supply side limited anyways
it looks like they'll have a much more consistent release schedule in the next 12 months especially if you include indies
it looks like they'll have a much more consistent release schedule in the next 12 months especially if you include indies
But you can't ignore the power of each console, what if a huge update allowed the 360 or the Ps3 to do the same stuff the Xbone is doing in the OS level, would you say it's comparable to next gen systems then? Cause i sure as hell wouldn't. And again, you basing all this from launch games, with a console not even out yet no less.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Saying they have a focus on games and looking at how they turned up with only KZ and knack doesn't feel like they jive together.
This perception feels like its exists simply because of marketing and how they handled their presentations.
This perception feels like its exists simply because of marketing and how they handled their presentations.
GillianSeed79
Member
To answer your question, yes PS4's focus on gaming is what made the difference for me in buying it day one. If I'm going to buy a gaming console, gaming has to come first. That's not to say the media features on the Xbox One aren't appealing. If you are a guy that watches a lot of television, has the disposable income to buy movies every week or really, really likes fantasy football, then by all means jump in.
As of right now, I have five devices within three feet of my television that can play media apps. I don't need another one.
If the prices were switched and I was paying $500 for a PS4 and $400 for an Xbox One, I might have reconsidered, but the value proposition for me on the PS4 makes the most logical sense right now.
Sure, am I going to be tempted to buy an Xbox One when Titanfall or Halo 5 comes out? Probably. Do I trust that MS will support games fully after a few years? No.
They made their bed and now they have to sleep in it. Trust is something that has to be earned, not given. Right now, Sony seems like they are focused on games with PS4 and not the how can we get a Trojan horse media device into the living room.
Jmanunknown
Member
Their are two key examples that proves Sony's gamble on gaming first have made a difference. First the ps4 is more powerful. Sony's design philosophy for the ps4 allowed them to build a more powerful console. The second example is Sony was able to build a cheaper console.
I won't address your point directly but, I'll use it as a base.
Did their gamer focused marketing make a significant difference on sales? Unlikely.
Did their gamer focused marketing make a significant difference on mindshare? Yes.
With Sony's big "All Inclusive Group Hug"
as I like to call it
When it comes to if Sony actually is Gamer Focused. I have to believe that even if they are a business, there are people at PlayStation that are put forward in speaking positions that are. When someone gives this guy the resources and money to do what he needs to do to sign more games, or Yoshida says something like this
You have to believe that these somewhere along the line someone thinks of money as just another way for them to keep making these games happen. The fact that they've been committed for decades to making new games, new IP, and burning money on games that they know aren't gonna rake in the dough (The Puppeteer) is more effective than any advertising tags.Shuhei Yoshida said:
I'm too tired to read over this and make sure I'm not just spouting absolute nonsense again hell, I might not even be on topic. Oh well, if I get quoted 3 times or more I'll know if I did something wrong, and then I'll fix it in the morning.
@VanWinkle:
I think Sony's message rings truest in the background of how they're handling things.
Xbox ONE doesn't get anywhere near as much obvious credit on these issues, and:
I'm getting an XB1, and not a PS4 currently, as I do think they've shown a positive ideal with all their digital games, and the methods they're going about to make and create them. But I think Sony has a more obvious, easy-to-digest path going forward.
It annoys me personally, because I think Microsoft had a lot of these ideas very solid early in the last gen. But instead of making them a staple part of their service, they started to lose focus, and ride along on what people already said, rather than pushing to strengthen those concepts. XBL opened up to indies and strong downloadable sales way before PSN did, and it was the "Next Gen" system with PSU running on it (as well as FFXI), that didn't require any other fees to enjoy. But instead of embracing those head starts, they've been forgotten and fallen to the wayside, and now we have to start alllll over again with building up that trusting and welcoming attitude.
Sony has spent the years since PS+ was introduced in creating a "Unified Playstation Brand" that really makes one feel like all their purchases are within one eco system.
Microsoft does some of this through it's similar UI's and the ease of use of something like XNA, but for the consumer, it feels like games and apps are all moving in different directions.
We'll get some parity as time goes on (Smartglass, ID@XB, "Every Console a Dev Kit", etc), maybe even superiority. But Sony has a head-start in a department that they were lagging behind on throughout most of the previous generation.
I think Sony's message rings truest in the background of how they're handling things.
- Their Subscription model offers games first. Freebies right out the gate!
- Their Crossgen downloadable games carry onto each platform you own, freely.
- They have their indie stuff already clear, and pop up in Kickstarters very often already.
- They have lots of good press dealing with how well they've handled these issues.
Xbox ONE doesn't get anywhere near as much obvious credit on these issues, and:
- Their subscription background deals are very unnoticed. (Who talks about Xbox Live rewards?) And there's not much to speak of at launch changing.
- Their Crossgen games still force you to buy separate versions on each platform.
- Their indie situation is still very hush-hush. Noone is coming out and speaking about how new XBL policies are making it any easier to get games on the platform now, than before.
- There's very little dedicated positive press from any of this. You have to hunt for the few and far between who've mentioned anything.
I'm getting an XB1, and not a PS4 currently, as I do think they've shown a positive ideal with all their digital games, and the methods they're going about to make and create them. But I think Sony has a more obvious, easy-to-digest path going forward.
It annoys me personally, because I think Microsoft had a lot of these ideas very solid early in the last gen. But instead of making them a staple part of their service, they started to lose focus, and ride along on what people already said, rather than pushing to strengthen those concepts. XBL opened up to indies and strong downloadable sales way before PSN did, and it was the "Next Gen" system with PSU running on it (as well as FFXI), that didn't require any other fees to enjoy. But instead of embracing those head starts, they've been forgotten and fallen to the wayside, and now we have to start alllll over again with building up that trusting and welcoming attitude.
Sony has spent the years since PS+ was introduced in creating a "Unified Playstation Brand" that really makes one feel like all their purchases are within one eco system.
- PSP games continue to get released, partially because Vita plays them, and keeps it's audience going.
- Getting games on Vita and PS3 PS+ will build up a bit of a PS4 library for me, so that I've already got some PS4 games when I get the system. Crossbuy Vita games gave me more reason to buy a PS3.
Microsoft does some of this through it's similar UI's and the ease of use of something like XNA, but for the consumer, it feels like games and apps are all moving in different directions.
- None of the XBLA and XBO downloadables are coming out simultaneously so far. They don't even have announced dates. Gamerscore carries over to XBO, but will saves?
- Why do I have to pay double price to play the same game on my 360 and ONE? PC and 360?
- What about crossover from WIndows Phone, PC, or Tablet games?
We'll get some parity as time goes on (Smartglass, ID@XB, "Every Console a Dev Kit", etc), maybe even superiority. But Sony has a head-start in a department that they were lagging behind on throughout most of the previous generation.
Sword Of Doom
Member
WRONG!
cpp_is_king
Member
People keep talking about launch exclusives, when we should be talking about "announced titles" and general overall developer support.
No, he's actually pretty right. And simply typing out a statement in all caps, with no explanation to back up your point is only furthering his comment.
HovaHovito
Banned
You couldnt tell by the launch lineup tbh
cpp_is_king
Member
It's really not a useless argument. $100 is a major factor for a lot of people who would otherwise be on the fence. As well as for a lot of parents buying these for their kids' christmas presents.
Nobody cares about under what conditions it would be a different story. They care about the extra $100 they have to spend.
travisbickle
Member
The F2P and indie focus they've had has shown a game-focused console. MS's launch of a few hand-picked "indie" titles was more like a big companies view of titles to appease an audience. Sony did a great thing by being more open to new games and business models that are available on the PC platform.
Not gaming... gamers.
In the age of social media, word of mouth is more powerful and wide reaching than ever before. That is something Microsoft, as a whole, has not been able to understand and that is why all of its recent attempts in the consumer space have been utter failures. Windows Phone, Surface, Zune, Bing, even their OS business is suffering with Windows 8.
In the age of social media, word of mouth is more powerful and wide reaching than ever before. That is something Microsoft, as a whole, has not been able to understand and that is why all of its recent attempts in the consumer space have been utter failures. Windows Phone, Surface, Zune, Bing, even their OS business is suffering with Windows 8.
Jinfash
needs 2 extra inches
I absolutely get where you're coming from, and I also agree with your premise... at least partially. I think a lot of people will be surprised (for better or worse) by the parity achieved at launch, or a months from now, feature-wise.
However I still maintain that you're judging one platform from actual hands-on and first hand experience, while you're still looking at the other through a PR/marketing-fogged up goggles. It's the exact impression these campaigns want to illicit. They got you, man. RUN!
However I still maintain that you're judging one platform from actual hands-on and first hand experience, while you're still looking at the other through a PR/marketing-fogged up goggles. It's the exact impression these campaigns want to illicit. They got you, man. RUN!
Fair point.
Tidus_Great
Banned
it was a combo of everything. Xbone had bad features and bad publicity, ps4 was 100 dollars cheaper, Sony basically styled on MS by saying "we are doing the opposite of what they are lol" I mean really this was Sonys gen for the taking. Wii U was underwhelming and underpowered, xbone is weaker and has nothing notable to push it over ps4 and it costs 100 more.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
They didn't try to screw gamers with DRM bullshit. Oh and $399. The focus in gaming saying for the players etc might of helped but its to quantify how much. I think the top two reasons are how Sony ran away with it.
ChiliManiac
Banned
I'm not to sure, I think Sony built up so much hype that their launch games had no way to live up to the expectations of gamers, even the majority of them. Most of the people I know who got it are having the most fun with the sports games and Need 4 Speed Rivals. So, it's gona come all down to the games and Play Station still doesn't have it's Halo. Will see what happens. Nobody can ignore the reports of consoles bricking either at this point and Sony not being able to replace them till February. It's a launch, nobody will know the consoles true potential for another 5 or so years. Remember, Perfect Dark Zero was a 360 launch game...and Call of Duty 3 was a PS3 Launch Game. I'm excited for everyone to get their hands on the systems they choose and like.
Dragonborn
Member
Exactly, the PS4 has way more games coming to it and heck, a ton more games at launch too. If Titanfall, a 360/PC/X1 ge can be counted as an Xbox One exclusive, then clearly PS3/4/PC games can be counted for Ps4. Fair's fair I'd say, no?
Playstation does have it's Halo, it's called Gran Turismo. Hell, I'm pretty sure outside of Halo 3, GT5 sold more than any of the Halo games
Launch fucking titles.
The one or two extra unproven "exclusives" on the Xbox platform are utterly insignificant in the long run.
Sony has the studios, the more powerful hardware, the third-party support and the experience of keeping a userbase of gamers completely satiated in terms of new, exclusive blockbuster titles.
That's why people are buying the PS4 in droves. Launch window titles are a ridiculously flawed metric to judge these consoles by.
And even then, people are massively exaggerating the differences in line-up quality. Let's see some reviews first.
The one or two extra unproven "exclusives" on the Xbox platform are utterly insignificant in the long run.
Sony has the studios, the more powerful hardware, the third-party support and the experience of keeping a userbase of gamers completely satiated in terms of new, exclusive blockbuster titles.
That's why people are buying the PS4 in droves. Launch window titles are a ridiculously flawed metric to judge these consoles by.
And even then, people are massively exaggerating the differences in line-up quality. Let's see some reviews first.
ionicbluebird
Member
As long as the PS4 has all the media apps and functionality that Xbox One has (minus TV) everything should be fine... now, that's not the case right now and hopefully Sony is getting on top of it because I want an entertainment ecosystem built-in just like the PS3 and to a greater extent 360/One. I am enjoying my PS4 thus far though... great games machine... doesn't mean we wouldn't want more out of it though.. I mean, what happened to it only does everything?
Chuck Norris
Banned
Sony have a far better launch window than MS for mine. Does MS have an all out exclusive for Xbox One that isn't due late next year?
And I think Sony have ultimately made the right move in not rushing DriveClub and inFamous for launch date. Dead Rising for example looks like it could use more time in the oven.
MS on the other hand probably made the right move taking some 360 titles and repurposing them as next gen (Ryse), Sony could have done that with multiple titles that came out on PS3 this year.
And I think Sony have ultimately made the right move in not rushing DriveClub and inFamous for launch date. Dead Rising for example looks like it could use more time in the oven.
MS on the other hand probably made the right move taking some 360 titles and repurposing them as next gen (Ryse), Sony could have done that with multiple titles that came out on PS3 this year.
I don't think Sony even knows what they want out of the PS4.
Wasn't the PlayStation always supposed to be more than just a games console? Hell, the subsidiary is called 'Sony Computer Entertainment'.
The PS2 and PS3 were labeled as 'Computer Entertainment Systems'.
The PS4 seems to be Sony conceding their grand ambition of owning the living room. It's like the Vita, so niche that while enthusiasts might be pleased, it shows that they aren't seeing where the future is headed (not just simple consoles).
Despite supposedly being the weaker of the two consoles, it's looking as if the Xbox One seems to be the more fully thought out and significantly more ambitious design.
Wasn't the PlayStation always supposed to be more than just a games console? Hell, the subsidiary is called 'Sony Computer Entertainment'.
The PS2 and PS3 were labeled as 'Computer Entertainment Systems'.
The PS4 seems to be Sony conceding their grand ambition of owning the living room. It's like the Vita, so niche that while enthusiasts might be pleased, it shows that they aren't seeing where the future is headed (not just simple consoles).
Despite supposedly being the weaker of the two consoles, it's looking as if the Xbox One seems to be the more fully thought out and significantly more ambitious design.
So, first off. I'll let this post stand as proof. In some way, shape, or form, I am now a hypocrite. I have always, and will always, said that you should never sell you console or it's games. The money you get for the trade in is nothing compared to the moment of longing when you want to play that game you sold, or hold that controller you don't have anymore. So why then, did I sell my 360? It wasn't because I got a good deal for it
it was because when I looked at that console, when I turned it on and looked at it's barren dashboard filled with empty space where ads would be if it was connected to the internet, looked at the games I had sitting on my shelf and on my HDD and thought how I already bought them again on Vita (Indie Games) or plan to when they release or that now, when this console transition is happening, there's nobody for me to play Halo with, that I had no love for this box. When I look at a console, I should be able to look at it in a positive light, I should be able to remember all those good times I had and that nostalgia should be worth more than the money I could possibly gain from not having it anymore. But instead, when I looked at that box, I remember Indie Game The Movie, and DRM, and Ads, and having to pay for online just for the privilege to play with my friends, and worst of all, that goddamn battery pack on my controller.
I remember when I got the damn thing. I got it for Christmas 2008 and I was so excited to finally be able to play with my friends and stop being That Playstation Guy. But then, support dropped of the edge. My 360 friends stopped playing video games because there was nothing to buy, and I went right back to Playstation in 2010-11. What I saw when I looked at that thing was just a box that I lugged around because it had Yu-Gi-Oh and Spelunky on it. That's barely enough for me. And most assuredly not enough for a lot of other people. MS neglected their audience for 3 years. Right when Sony was hitting it's stride.
And then it all came to a head all at the same time. Sony announces the PS4 and champions gamers. MS announces the XB1 and dodges around DRM issues. The press lambastes gamers as being entitled. And then TLoU hits. Right when everyone is the most salty and sour with their bruised egos about the DRM and wants of games. I hope everyone remembers the pretty much mass exodus of people trading in their 360's for PS3's and Naughty Dog games. And yet, the PS3 only just then started outselling the 360, marginal sales impact that it had in the big picture. Core gamers started switching ecosystems. Sony started to win the pivotal battle that The Bonus Round spoke of in their recent XB1 episode before it had officially even begun. Now we are here. Speculating sales and impact of a brand new console and one that's not even out yet.
I think I can get to my point now. Has Sony's "All Inclusive Group Hug" Marketing, had an effect on this year of Console War? Not to anyone except for us. Has MS's neglect of gamers and Sony's embracing of them, had effect on this generations Console War? Yes. I think we sometimes underestimate ourselves. Sony is going all in on the hardcore gamer for a reason. They saw the success MS had when they did it for the 360, and they most likely came to the realization that it's that small core of a few million people that set the trends and sell their product better than any advertising campaigns (bar the OG Kinect and Wii). If Sony keeps this up, we'll be doing their free advertising and salesperson routines for the next 8 years.
,Best Buy, $120 for the console and my old ass games,
I remember when I got the damn thing. I got it for Christmas 2008 and I was so excited to finally be able to play with my friends and stop being That Playstation Guy. But then, support dropped of the edge. My 360 friends stopped playing video games because there was nothing to buy, and I went right back to Playstation in 2010-11. What I saw when I looked at that thing was just a box that I lugged around because it had Yu-Gi-Oh and Spelunky on it. That's barely enough for me. And most assuredly not enough for a lot of other people. MS neglected their audience for 3 years. Right when Sony was hitting it's stride.
And then it all came to a head all at the same time. Sony announces the PS4 and champions gamers. MS announces the XB1 and dodges around DRM issues. The press lambastes gamers as being entitled. And then TLoU hits. Right when everyone is the most salty and sour with their bruised egos about the DRM and wants of games. I hope everyone remembers the pretty much mass exodus of people trading in their 360's for PS3's and Naughty Dog games. And yet, the PS3 only just then started outselling the 360, marginal sales impact that it had in the big picture. Core gamers started switching ecosystems. Sony started to win the pivotal battle that The Bonus Round spoke of in their recent XB1 episode before it had officially even begun. Now we are here. Speculating sales and impact of a brand new console and one that's not even out yet.
I think I can get to my point now. Has Sony's "All Inclusive Group Hug" Marketing, had an effect on this year of Console War? Not to anyone except for us. Has MS's neglect of gamers and Sony's embracing of them, had effect on this generations Console War? Yes. I think we sometimes underestimate ourselves. Sony is going all in on the hardcore gamer for a reason. They saw the success MS had when they did it for the 360, and they most likely came to the realization that it's that small core of a few million people that set the trends and sell their product better than any advertising campaigns (bar the OG Kinect and Wii). If Sony keeps this up, we'll be doing their free advertising and salesperson routines for the next 8 years.
Yes, this requires repeating. I don't like getting called out and a disclaimer is the least I can do. I'm too tired to read over this and make sure I'm not just spouting absolute nonsense again hell, I might not even be on topic. Oh well, if I get quoted 3 times or more I'll know if I did something wrong, and then I'll fix it in the morning.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Ps4 games are prettier.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Weaker console, pricier console, lack of early focus on indie games, not embracing free-to-play business models, and a couple of paid-for launch exclusives ring to you as an "infinitely better focus on gaming"?
I can't speak for Xbone's UI yet, but having used PS4 for a weekend now, Microsoft clearly has an edge in the design and user experience department.
Laser frame outlines. Blue gradients. Drop shadowed text. New age ambient sounds... Sometimes when going through the PS4's menus I feel I've warped 10 years to the past using Squaresoft's shitty PlayOnline service.
Xbone's menus are sleek and modern in comparison.
Laser frame outlines. Blue gradients. Drop shadowed text. New age ambient sounds... Sometimes when going through the PS4's menus I feel I've warped 10 years to the past using Squaresoft's shitty PlayOnline service.
Xbone's menus are sleek and modern in comparison.
cpp_is_king
Member
I can't speak for Xbone's UI yet, but having used PS4 for a weekend now, Microsoft clearly has an edge in the design and user experience department.
Laser frame outlines. Blue gradients. Drop shadowed text. New age ambient sounds... Sometimes when going through the PS4's menus I feel I've warped 10 years to the past using Squaresoft's shitty PlayOnline service.
Xbone's menus are sleek and modern in comparison.
Oh come on now, PlayOnline vs PS4? Calling that the stretch of the century would be an understatement.
Also, why did you say "I can't speak for Xbone's UI yet" and then end with "Xbone's menus are sleek and modern in comparison"
breakfuss
Member
You're deconstructing in a way that only a hardcore enthusiast would. From the outside, yes, Microsoft's games look infinitely more interesting.
HovaHovito
Banned
The games for xbone are already announced
Theres nothing to wait and see
IHaveCandy
Banned
I'm judging it with a focus just on gaming. There have been tons of negative issues with the Xbox One for gaming. It's silly to dismiss all of that because of a couple of launch games that aren't exactly system sellers.
Every generation ended in two months. Many even ended before it started.
That comparison is strictly on the design department. Do we really need the whole "we're in the future!" ambient tracks and glowing frames over gradients? It is not too visually pleasing if you ask me. I hope themes can alleviate most of these issues.
cpp_is_king
Member
It's not even like Xbox One's launch lineup is that much better. So PS4's launch lineup is like a 5/10, and Xbox One's launch lineup is a 5.5/10. Whoop dee doo. Which is why any rational person would be looking at launch window games, not launch lineup games.
HovaHovito
Banned
Titanfall?
BlackClouds
Member
This level of tone deafness is the reason why people who make things hate consumers because of the total lack of being reasonable. Final silicon on systems like this aren't ready until the last minute. Development tools aren't ready until the last minute. Ambitious AAA type titles usually don't come around until the second Christmas, not the first for those reasons and many others. It also takes a while for developers to figure out what they can do with the new hardware which also takes a year.
Killzone is absolutely a very pretty game, at times very astonishing. Horrendous? lol, the silly hyperbole is thick with this one. Apparently 1 million plus didn't think the PS4 was horrendous and some folks are just going to have to deal with that. MS made major mistakes by not fortifying their base, so to speak.