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[GHG]

One does some things better the other does other things. Better. Simple as that

That's not the conclusion but ok.

 

[tommib]

One does some things better the other does other things. Better. Simple as that

Keep the dream alive.

 

[GHG]

Keep the dream alive.

 

[Elysium44]

One does some things better the other does other things. Better. Simple as that

What does Forza do better?

 

[Utherellus]

You know what's the most heart breaking and painful to realize?

That MFS 2020 vehicle models on SeriesX/S can look like this:

This is what happens when vehicle is modeled from ground up, using modern standards.


Turn 10 has no excuse for recycling ancient models. It's just awkward. Embarrassing even.

 

[Boss Mog]

Forza looks better by quite a lot here

Troll post?

 

[Senua]

Quit piling on people who have a different opinion.

I've played both quite a bit and GT7 is just a much more cohesive package, the lighting, shaders and models harmonise beautifully. The PS4 roots are there to see especially environment wise but during gameplay with the high quality motion blur It's not a big blemish on the presentation.

FM23 can look beautiful at times, but then Forza 7 esque the very next moment. Overcast scenarios look really washed out and lack contrast, while bright sunny days have Horizon 5 levels of lush saturated colours. I think Forza will get there, especially if RTGI comes out. But it's like T10 need raytracing to make up for the lack of artistic talent. GT7 looks stunning without any raytracing needed, while Forza just doesn't. Car models are obviously a huge issue in Forza as well. Recent additions look great but legacy models need serious work and stand out like a sore thumb.

I look forward to seeing what T10 can do with FM with all their updates, especially RTGI but I'm more interested in GT8 and how impressive that will be. With gameplay graphics maybe approaching the stunning intro films they produce

 

[Elysium44]

But it's like T10 need raytracing to make up for the lack of artistic talent. GT7 looks stunning without any raytracing needed, while Forza just doesn't.

I still play Forza Horizon 4 and am still struck by how good it looks, there was obviously a team of extremely hard working people who poured enormous effort and LOVE into making it. FM2023 doesn't seem to have any of that magic. (Also without ray tracing. But the reflections look real enough. You can see the surroundings reflected on the car, the car reflected in puddles etc.) It looks so much better than FM2023 and yet is much lighter on resources too.

The management at Turn 10 are evidently too comfortable with mediocrity. They have no passion, their game is completely uninspired and lacklustre.

 

[DryvBy]

Ignoring graphics, the VR support for GT7 makes it the best. VR racing is a game changer and it still manages to look amazing in VR (something I doubted would happen)

 

[Senua]

I still play Forza Horizon 4 and am still struck by how good it looks, there was obviously a team of extremely hard working people who poured enormous effort and LOVE into making it. FM2023 doesn't seem to have any of that magic. (Also without ray tracing. But the reflections look real enough. You can see the surroundings reflected on the car, the car reflected in puddles etc.) It looks so much better than FM2023 and yet is much lighter on resources too.

The management at Turn 10 are evidently too comfortable with mediocrity. They have no passion, their game is completely uninspired and lacklustre.

Yea PG clearly has the talent. FH4 looks incredible for an Xbox One derived game, FH5 looks incredible full stop and again is MUCH more cohesive than FM23. They also don't rely on raytracing, their shaders and screenspace AO work an absolute treat. It's about being smart and knowing how to utilize the tech you have, T10 just seem to throw RT on it and call it a day, even if the results aren't as as visually appealing to well crafted legacy methods. Like you said FM23 just wasn't made with love and you can sense it in every single aspect of the game.

 

[Doctor Hades]

I play Forza Motorsport on my RTX 4080 equipped PC and Gran Turismo 7 on my PS5 and PS VR2.

While I wouldn't say either game is perfect, I will admit that I found Forza Motorsport to be a huge disappointment after all the pre-release hype about it being built from the ground up for the current generation. Visually the game is drab and underwhelming with dull lighting and some poor texturing. The game also doesn't look anywhere near as good as the pre-release trailer which is a cardinal sin in my book. But visuals are only part of the package and it is the gameplay that really lets down Forza for me. It's just boring with a lack of content, a mediocre campaign, bland presentation and some weird design choices such as the Car Mastery system and the enforced practice sessions. Why are these not qualifier rounds that then set your starting grid position for the race? Why does the game not save the status of the practice session when I complete that and exit the game to return to play the race? Instead I am forced to do the practice session again.

Forza Motorsport is a huge disappointment for me. I want to love it. After all, I have enjoyed all the previous games from the original on Xbox and actually considered it superior in terms of gameplay to Gran Turismo, but despite my best efforts I just find it incredibly tedious. I actually dozed off during one race. I think Forza Horizon, granted this is a more arcadey take on racing, has just killed my enthusiasm for the Motorsport franchise but Turn 10 have done themselves no favours by not innovating the franchise in any meaningful way despite the 6 year gap since the last release (Forza Motorsport 7). Forza Horizon is just a much better franchise at this point and it is also well-optimised for PC unlike the current Forza Motorsport game, which I experienced weird framerate drops with as well as disappearing track textures.

Gran Turismo 7 looks better visually with superb HDR and a pleasant vibrant colour palette that looks more realistic to my eyes. The game clearly shows a developer that is passionate about cars from the attention to detail in the vehicle models to the actual tracks. The presentation is subjective, personally I find the elaborately animated menus and jazz music to be a bit too much at times but I'll admit that it at least has personality and looks nice. The Cafe themed campaign is also bizarre and too short and I miss having a proper career mode to work through as someone who has no interest in online racing or online gaming at all. Still, complaints aside, I enjoying playing GT7 in both 2D and VR far more than Forza Motorsport and that is saying something.

If I was rating both games I'd give Forza Motorsport, 6 out of 10 and Gran Turismo 7, 8 out 10.

 

[Elysium44]

The signage is built from the ground up™. Good thing is, that typo could easily be fixed.

As pointed out on the Forza forums, the same thing existed in FM7. More proof the game isn't rebooted, it's copy and pasted.

Also even the font is wrong. I've spent hours making liveries in FH4 painstakingly making letters accurate rather than just using one of the built-in fonts which looks similar, because it looks better that way. Turn 10 don't even need to use a clumsy livery editor like that, they will have tools which make designing in-game models fast and easy but they are so lazy they still cut corners like this.

 

[Inviusx]

After watching the entire thing there's only 2 areas where you could say Forza beats GT7 and that is the car models looking more smashed up if you wreck them (even though GT7s damaged headlight model was superior) and the tyre barriers have physics if you crash into them.

I find those points to be pretty inconsequential to the overall presentation of the game, therefore my conclusion here is that Forza and T10 have to take a massive L here. Yikes.

 

[Forth]

I own both games and the biggest difference I feel is that GT7 was created by a team that care about their project, Forza does not.
Forza feels like a game created by a team that work from home and claim to be at their computer all of their working days but are really at Starbucks with their friends.

 

[SimTourist]

The problem with Forza is that every game is made by a mishmash of outsourcing studios and contractors with no overall vision or intent. You look at the credits for Gran Turismo 7 and it's mostly the same team that started way back on GT1, you feel that history and artistic touches like the different jingles around the game, quirky and offbeat features and carrying over old music from composers like Daiki Kasho, etc. The attention to detail everywhere is easy to see. Then you look at the credits for Forza 8 and aside from a few people in senior positions this is not the same team that made Motorsport 4 or Motorsport 1, so no wonder they have no idea how to make a game like those. And in general it seems more like a copy and paste job, same old replay system and photomode, same old livery editor from Motorsport 2, same old car models and inaccurate tracks. There's not much to discover in the game, no cool hidden content, no long progression hook. I'm enjoying the multiplayer but everything else is meh at best.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

Turn 10 has no excuse for recycling ancient models. It's just awkward. Embarrassing even.

Also, how hard is it to send an email over to your Indian modeling contractor and tell them hey, remodel the '04 VW Golf R32, make it look accurate? We want it in three weeks.

Done.

 

[SimTourist]

I mean this is Chris Esaki's credits, he literally came out of nowhere and has nothing to do with Forza. He doesn't know why Forza Motorsport 4 worked as well as it did and how to do that again.

 

[Elysium44]

I mean this is Chris Esaki's credits, he literally came out of nowhere and has nothing to do with Forza. He doesn't know why Forza Motorsport 4 worked as well as it did and how to do that again.

Diversity hire? He's certainly completely out of his depth and his superiors should have identified this long ago and replaced him with someone who has the proper experience and talent for such an important role.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

I mean this is Chris Esaki's credits, he literally came out of nowhere and has nothing to do with Forza. He doesn't know why Forza Motorsport 4 worked as well as it did and how to do that again.

Jesus, bunch of thanks on some shitty games and then worked on some the worst Forza entries. Yikes.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

I'm going to get the hate, but things like that scream game pass tittle to me. I'm very curious to see how Hellblade 2 will turn out. The game looks amazing in it presentation, but the gameplay trailer they released was underwhelming, and I don't trust Microsoft to be honest with what they show us. Forza Motorsport was promised by Phil himself to be a gorgeous from the ground up game made for the Series X running at stunning 4k60 native with RTGI. They showed us a fake trailer and then here we are.

 

[GHG]

Diversity hire? He's certainly completely out of his depth and his superiors should have identified this long ago and replaced him with someone who has the proper experience and talent for such an important role.

Looks like he got his first big role/break on a Kinect game.

Nothing more needs to be said.

 

[Senua]

I'm going to get the hate, but things like that scream game pass tittle to me. I'm very curious to see how Hellblade 2 will turn out. The game looks amazing in it presentation, but the gameplay trailer they released was underwhelming, and I don't trust Microsoft to be honest with what they show us. Forza Motorsport was promised by Phil himself to be a gorgeous from the ground up game made for the Series X running at stunning 4k60 native with RTGI. They showed us a fake trailer and then here we are.

Our GaaS future

 

[SimTourist]

Looks like he got his first big role/break on a Kinect game.

Nothing more needs to be said.

I've been scrolling through the credits on GT Sport (no one has uploaded for GT7 yet) and it's honestly hard to find people that haven't worked there since GT1 or at least GT5 Prologue.

Gran Turismo: Sport credits (PlayStation 4, 2017) - MobyGames

The official game credits for Gran Turismo: Sport released on PlayStation 4 in 2017. The credits include 1,076 people.

www.mobygames.com

But then again in Japan it's normal to consistently work for the same company for a long time instead of job hopping which is normal in America/Europe.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

As pointed out on the Forza forums, the same thing existed in FM7. More proof the game isn't rebooted, it's copy and pasted.

Also even the font is wrong. I've spent hours making liveries in FH4 painstakingly making letters accurate rather than just using one of the built-in fonts which looks similar, because it looks better that way. Turn 10 don't even need to use a clumsy livery editor like that, they will have tools which make designing in-game models fast and easy but they are so lazy they still cut corners like this.

I just came here looking for this as I thought I remembered that, thank you for posting it

 

[demigod]

I'm going to get the hate, but things like that scream game pass tittle to me. I'm very curious to see how Hellblade 2 will turn out. The game looks amazing in it presentation, but the gameplay trailer they released was underwhelming, and I don't trust Microsoft to be honest with what they show us. Forza Motorsport was promised by Phil himself to be a gorgeous from the ground up game made for the Series X running at stunning 4k60 native with RTGI. They showed us a fake trailer and then here we are.

But everyone loves those fake Directs, no?

 

[omegasc]

What an amazing comparison! Each have their strengths, and the different approaches are clearly pointed out in the video. I like these WAY more than the "pixel count" videos. Great job again from John!

 

[JackMcGunns]

You must be a terrible driver if this is what counts

I meant the visual aspect, this is a visual comparison, not a gameplay comparison. Better car damage and effects like tires popping out of barriers = better visuals while playing the game, photo mode not so much.

 

[tommib]

As pointed out on the Forza forums, the same thing existed in FM7. More proof the game isn't rebooted, it's copy and pasted.

Also even the font is wrong. I've spent hours making liveries in FH4 painstakingly making letters accurate rather than just using one of the built-in fonts which looks similar, because it looks better that way. Turn 10 don't even need to use a clumsy livery editor like that, they will have tools which make designing in-game models fast and easy but they are so lazy they still cut corners like this.

It's pretty unbelievable that they would just import the Weclome typo. It's very symbolic of the lack of care.

 

[Elysium44]

Is it possible there used to be an old sign which Spa itself misspelled? And Forza just faithfully copied it? Especially as one of the signs is spelled correctly.

It still wouldn't explain why the error is still in the 2023 game with - according to them - all newly created tracks, when you can visit the same spot on google streetview and see the other sign now.

 

[BigLee74]

That's just the shitty Forza photomode in action - zoomed into from far across the map but the LOD doesn't change.

Can't believe DF knowingly highlighted that (on several occasions too - see trees) - cheap ammo for the warriors!

 

[Elysium44]

That's just the shitty Forza photomode in action - zoomed into from far across the map but the LOD doesn't change.

What track is that btw? Laguna Seca?

 

[hououinkyouma00]

One of these games sure seems more made from the ground up then the other.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

What track is that btw? Laguna Seca?

Yep.

 

[Bogroll]

Delete.

 

[Musilla]

 

[SkyHighTrees]

another level. a different breed. the misfits. avant-garde. a cut above. high-grade. tip-top. unsurpassed. elder. worthier. select.

 

[skit_data]

Live feed of Insane Metal still doing his best in putting together the summary of the +1hr video

 

[Heisenberg007]

One does some things better the other does other things. Better. Simple as that

No, it's not a tie at all.

GT 7 was the clear winner, despite being a last-gen game. There is a generational difference between the two games. It's just the other way around.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Gran turismo does more with less plus it's been around for 20+ years.

 

[BigLee74]

No, it's not a tie at all.

GT 7 was the clear winner, despite being a last-gen game. There is a generational difference between the two games. It's just the other way around.

What an absolutely shit take

 

[Heisenberg007]

What an absolutely shit take

Sure.

Really?

Lighting and reflections? You're making all that up, son.

Keep fighting though

 

[FalconPunch]

What an absolutely shit take

 

[BigLee74]

Sure.





Keep fighting though

Nobody is disputing GT7 car models are a step above. Nobody. GT7 is simply unrivalled.

Just a pity the actual racing LOD is lower than that used in Forza (called out in the video)!

I also heard in that video that not all tracks support night racing or rain in GT7.

I also heard an awful lot of 'they both do things differently, and you may prefer one over the other'.

So not as 'generational' as you make out.

Both look great. Unfortunately I've only got to play one so far, but at least it plays great (in spite of its obvious shortcomings I have mentioned in lots of threads).

No excuses for turn 10 by the way, they SHOULD have blown GT7 out the water. They had the timing to do it, so it's a big fail for them in that regard.

 

[Insane Metal]

Live feed of Insane Metal still doing his best in putting together the summary of the +1hr video

I still haven't had the time to even watch the video unfortunately. I think that summary is never coming (from me).

 

[blue velvet]

Sophy Ai would bump into player's car like Forza did.Still DF use normal Ai to compare

Sophy is in the early stage of development. Still hasn't learn how to detect racing flags, that's why they go full speed despite the marshals waving the yellow and blue flag. At this point, it knows how to race and has proper racing etiquette. With normal A.I you can see them slowing down when they detect an incident miles away from the crash or where that car is stationary. I'll still choose Sophy over that god awful AI in the game any day of the week.

 

[Musilla]

 

[sendit]

As pointed out on the Forza forums, the same thing existed in FM7. More proof the game isn't rebooted, it's copy and pasted.

Also even the font is wrong. I've spent hours making liveries in FH4 painstakingly making letters accurate rather than just using one of the built-in fonts which looks similar, because it looks better that way. Turn 10 don't even need to use a clumsy livery editor like that, they will have tools which make designing in-game models fast and easy but they are so lazy they still cut corners like this.

The LOD hasn't fully loaded the correct letters in to the sign yet. Can't believe DF missed that.

 

[AyraSutoraifu]

I was 14 when GT1 came out. 25+ years later and PD still makes the same game

 

[freefornow]

As a card carrying Green Rat and owner of every mainline Forza game, I agree with DF's analysis and conclusion.
I have been bitterly dissapointed with the graphics of this game (Series X). After all that time in "development" this was the result.

Can try to argue that they focussed on other areas in the graphics pipeline, but those areas dont exactly stand out against the rival to support that argument.

Surely MS have to be asking some questions within about this?

 

[DEAD ORIGINAL]

Do love GT that cafe mode is brilliant.