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Digital Foundry: Remnant 2 - An Unreal Engine 5 Nanite Showcase? PS5 vs Xbox Series X/S DF Tech Review
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
That's always been the issue with image reconstruction but somehow, you have people blatantly ignoring this. And even in the still shots Oliver shows, the native 1440p shot is still clearly better.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Ok... so we have the video too that I believe we all watched.
Is the image quality falling apar in motion? If not? Whats the point of what ou guys are saying then?
SportsFan581
Member
It's hard to isolate things that much though, because the upscaling tech is altering decisions in the design process along the way. If upscaling wasn't an option they would target higher base resolutions and make cutbacks elsewhere.
There are definitely some instances where the final image probably isn't as high quality as it should of been (Dead Space looks better at a lower res without the FSR, etc.), but as long as the final image looks okay it doesn't really matter, IMO.
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Crispy Gamer
Member
The screen tearing is a lot more egregious than 720p in performance
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Article is up as well
www.eurogamer.net
Some comparison pics from it:
Remnant 2 is a fitting showcase for Unreal Engine 5's Nanite technology
The Digital Foundry tech analysis of Remnant 2 reveals the advantages of a current-gen focus with Unreal Engine 5 and Nanite - with PS5, Series X and Series S.
www.eurogamer.net
Some comparison pics from it:
Zathalus
Member
It does. Every FSR and TSR implementation does this. Just a limitation of temporal reconstruction without an AI pass.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Look at the foliage in the first still shots that compare them directly. It's incredibly noisy on the console side, especially the tree leaves on the top left that sways in front of the building and that's just a slight movement. With fast motions and fine details, it'd be even worse. We already KNOW this and we've known this for years so why are you pretending not to?
Oliver said still shots offer similar detail levels, ie, the super upsampling is able to resolve similar amount of details to native...it doesn't mean they're identical, especially not with fine moving objects or fast movements.
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MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
Help meMidGenRefresh gimme my pro
Get a PC. Or wait until November 2024.
Senua
Member
MSAA just can't cope with complex modern games, so much shimmering.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
720p....
720p...
In 2023....Next gen games were 720p...
720p...
In 2023....Next gen games were 720p...
Bojji
Gold Member
Yes, that's probably from mainly console players who can't really test themselves how much loss of IQ there is when reconstructing from super low resolution. And that's the problem, all games should be reconstructed from 1080p to 4K, not fucking 720p...
Yep, that's horrible. I expected 1080p games at worst but this shit is much worse than that LOL.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Next gen consoles giving that Xbone fat energy!
onnextflix5
Member
Ue5 and it still looks so ugly.
Are we still saying xsx don’t have some bottleneck that’s holding it from using its full 12tf.
Are we still saying xsx don’t have some bottleneck that’s holding it from using its full 12tf.
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No. Different engines, different devs and development time shall get us a multitude of results.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
crazy to think how much shit that console got last gen...and here we are.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
BbMajor7th
Member
I mean, upscaling does cover a multitude of sins, but it's fair to ask what's happening with the technical execution on some recent games - especially given the fact that game design isn't taking some bonkers leap over the previous generation. Open worlds became a meme last gen, but from a game design standpoint, they were a considerable step over the prior generation - games like RDR2 and HZD ended up looking and running just as good as linear action games, even with heaps of dynamic elements and real-time simulation at play.
Looking at FFXVI and Remnant II, I'm just not seeing where the render budget is being spent. Honestly, if rounding off a few edges and squeezing a few more triangles is costing that much, just bin that shit and spend the budget on some bonkers gameplay systems instead. If you can do TOTK on a tablet, I hardly imagine what you could pull off on PS5/XSX.
Looking at FFXVI and Remnant II, I'm just not seeing where the render budget is being spent. Honestly, if rounding off a few edges and squeezing a few more triangles is costing that much, just bin that shit and spend the budget on some bonkers gameplay systems instead. If you can do TOTK on a tablet, I hardly imagine what you could pull off on PS5/XSX.
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SEGAvangelist
Member
And it's almost been 10 years.
To think their CPUs were still based on Athlon engineering, no wonder why we are at this shit today, the PC version barely uses the CPU and it shows the poor performance, developers are still making games 101% GPU bound.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I see why they are getting the pro out asap because as more games come out running at these resolutions, plenty of the more enthusiastic gamers are gonna read this shit and go straight to pc.
The ps5 and series X were 100 percent just pro consoles of pro consoles.
The ps5 and series X were 100 percent just pro consoles of pro consoles.
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acidagfc
Member
I am playing it on PC right now and I don't understand why this game hogs resources so much. It's not exactly a looker, just good enough for current gen. Load times are great on M2 SSD, but that's about the most impressive technical feat. I don't even know why Nanite is important here, it's not an open world game, there are no distant objects to really improve the LOD.
Overall this looks more like bad optimization than anything else. 720p on PS5/XSX is an embarrasment.
Overall this looks more like bad optimization than anything else. 720p on PS5/XSX is an embarrasment.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
This is the worst reason for pro.
Just because devs are using the console as budget pc, doesn't mean it has to be that way. it is more than a budget pc if they would decide to use it that way.
Besides - 720p or not, the quality mode is 1300p and balance mode is 800p... but it's dynamic and end result is comparable to 1440p anyway.
So just saying that game is 720p because it can sometimes dip to that in 1 mode is not very realistic.
It would be exactly the same with PRO consoles. They wouldn't optimize the shadows or some shit and run down to 720p anyway because it's the easiest performance solution.
Pro will just move the goalpost. We need true care and devs to dig into the bespoke architecture. Anyone can slap a pc game on ps5, set UE graphics preset to medium and be done with it. That's so bad
MALpractice311
Member
Then stop using UE5, nanite, and/or lumen. The hardware isn't there yet and the benefits are minor relative to the costs.
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Rocco Schiavone
Member
phant0m
Member
FWIW the IQ is very good on PC, even using DLSS.
PeteBull
Member
its 900p upscaled to 1080p, and dips to 26fps on the footage df showed, probably even lower somewhere deeper in the game, dat xss proves to be as awful as i imagined
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
yeah... I mean at leas tit's 200$ gp box, so anyone can play games if they dont care about "high end"its 900p upscaled to 1080p, and dips to 26fps on the footage df showed, probably even lower somewhere deeper in the game, dat xss proves to be as awful as i imagined
NonPhixion
Member
Wow this really shows how poorly unoptimized games from mid-tier devs can run on these new consoles.
Sethbacca
Member
yet there are people saying "WE DON'T NEED A PRO THIS GENERATION!"
They need to gtfoh.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
but that is not the reason
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Because the variable at fault is the developer, not the console. Just look at Rift Apart that looks much better and adds RT on top and runs at 1800-2160p, at 30fps+ with the absolute bottom being 1296p.
Clearly, the consoles are capable of much more. You just need someone competent enough.
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Vox Machina
Banned
Well thats the issue (actually a blessing and a curse, imo) with modern consoles. At the end of the day they are just budget PCs with a TV-centric Operating System. Have been since the switch to an x86 architecture.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
There’s a massive difference between an in-house first party developer with the tremendous advantages of no budget and time constraints, working on their company’s platform - versus a much smaller studio creating a multiplatform game.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Sure, but that doesn't change what I said. Furthermore, optimization and good performance should be high on the list of priorities. A lot of things should go before you forego optimization but this is clearly not the case.
There's really no excuse besides "it's not that important".
You forgot to say xsx too, that was probably intentional though.
Ronin_7
Member
All those new things will push these Consoles into 540p in no time, i fully expect 540p only games by 2027.
Upscaled with great techniques of course to 1080p/1440p.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
But they much more than just budget pcs. Devs just need to tap into that.
What is true, is that they allow much quicker ports from pc to consoles but if you dig deeper, you can do so much.
This is a common mis concept that architecture is the same as pc. It's different enough
Fbh
Gold Member
720p and can't even hold 60fps.
Man how quickly the dream of this gen being at least 1080p 60fps died.
And this isn't even using Lumen, once we get UE5 games using the full feature set we'll probably see console games running at 480p 25fps.
Honestly I've yet to see a single next gen game with visuals that seem worth the drop in resolution and framerate. We seem to have reached the point where getting a game to look 10% better needs 200% stronger hardware and it's not worth it.
Man how quickly the dream of this gen being at least 1080p 60fps died.
And this isn't even using Lumen, once we get UE5 games using the full feature set we'll probably see console games running at 480p 25fps.
Honestly I've yet to see a single next gen game with visuals that seem worth the drop in resolution and framerate. We seem to have reached the point where getting a game to look 10% better needs 200% stronger hardware and it's not worth it.
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Ovech-King
Member
Lol that awesome 10 % gain from 720p to 792p woooww
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
It's a creative choice. Not a hardware issue