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[AstroLad]

This is my camera-

Certainly not uber-l33t, but hopefully enough to take relatively clean medium-sized images. I've had it for a few years, but have never done much with it. I wanted to start using it a little more often, but already I have a problem, the image quality is FUGLY. I dunno if the camera is fucked up or what, but there's garbage all over the images I'm taking. Keep in mind I know almost nothing about photography, and even less about digital photography beyond the very basics.

Here is a pic at 3.2M I took w/ the camera resting on a flat book (pics look even worse when I'm holding the camera, so I wanted to do the best to eliminate that variable):

If you look at the dark areas (e.g. the TV screen, cabinet below, the area around), you can see the garbage artifacts (I don't know what they're called in this context, shit that's not supposed to be there), sometimes almost look like tears in the image, and when you look at the DVDs on the right they are blurry as fuck, looks like some shitty quality video capture or something.

So is there any way I can take pics even remotely resembling some of the nice, clear ones I see here? I don't care if the pics wind up being 1/4 of the size, I want them to look nice and clear (or at least a helluva lot clearer than this), but have no idea how to accomplish this, and of course the manual is no help. :/

 

[Memles]

That picture needs better lighting; a majority of digital cameras very simply don't have the ability to take good indoor pictures. In this case, what flash your camera does have seems to be relecting entirely on whatever the hell is in the foreground of the picture. Night pictures, indoors, with a digital camera, don't work. Natural light is best, even lights themselves work much better.

 

[nitewulf]

keep the ISO setting at lowest.
use "clean image".
try to shoot under good lighting whenever possible, if dark, use flash.

 

[AstroLad]

Here is a pic taken w/ better lighting, the stupid folder out of the way, and ISO set at 100. I had White Balance at "incandescent" though I suppose I'll set it back to Auto. There is no "Clean Image" setting, but under Picture Quality, there is Fine selected (vs. Standard). This already looks a lot closer to what I wanted, but is there any other way to clean things up a bit more (techniques, programs)? Also what is the best setting/strategy for when you are holding the camera to not have a completely fucked up picture (other than keep your hands steady)?

 

[BugCatcher]

Nitewulf recommended this to me, and it works quite well: http://www.neatimage.com/

It's always better to take a good initial picture than trying to fix a bad one on your computer, though. As for taking handheld shots, if you're using auto settings, then the darker the environment, the longer the shutter will stay open to gather enough light. (It will open the aperture too, but in these pics I'm sure it's already maxed out anyway.) The longer it's open, the more it's going to be affected by the movement of your hands. Try to get good light if possible, or use a flash if necessary. If you need to take a low-light shot and must use your hands, lean on something (desk, wall, etc) to keep yourself steady.

The ISO setting controls the sensitivity; higher settings mean that you need less light to get a good exposure, but it also increases the amount of noise in the picture, which you can see in your first photo. Unfortunately, you have to make a tradeoff somewhere. If your low-light handheld pictures are sharp but too dark (shutter not open long enough) or bright but too blurry (shutter open too long), then you need to either increase the ISO (grainier pictures) or put the camera on a stable surface/tripod (moving things will look blurry).

 

[olimario]

Sony = Grain in poor light
I learned this the hard way
I'm going with a Nikon or a Canon the next go round

 

[nitewulf]

sorry i meant use the program bugcatcher linked to, "neat image" (not "clean image"). it'll clean up the noise quite a bit.

 

[AirBrian]

Sony = Grain in poor light
I learned this the hard way
I'm going with a Nikon or a Canon the next go round

Yep, I've got two Sony digicam's and both suck under low lighting.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Sony = Grain in poor light
I learned this the hard way
I'm going with a Nikon or a Canon the next go round

Most cameras are going to have grain in poor light, unless you end up going with dSLRs. This is a physical problem related to the small sensors these cameras use and is exacerbated by in-camera sharpening. Nikon and Canon (non-dSLR) both use the same Sony sensors, so it's pretty much unavoidable. Like Nitewulf said, use something like neatimage to clean it up.

 

[AstroLad]

Very informative and helpful. Thanks, guys.

 

[nitewulf]

Also what is the best setting/strategy for when you are holding the camera to not have a completely fucked up picture (other than keep your hands steady)?

couple of pointers:
auto white balance usually works pretty well. sometimes switching around the balance settings will screw up the colors. i use auto quite a bit, of course, custom settings such as "flash" should be used when you're using the flash.
frame your pictures carefully, in the second shot you posted...the table top in the foreground is blurred because the camera is focusing somewhere in the middle of the frame, ie, at the tv/cabinet. the blurry foreground distracts the viewer.
fast shutter speeds will take clear pictures, even if your hands shake a bit. but of course, using fast shutter speed means you'd either have to open up the aperture (low numbers) to allow more light in, or create stronger ambient lighting.
in programs such as paint shop pro and photoshop, there are one button options for running various filters over digital photshops, such as color balance, brightness, sharpness etc. use these options and see how the results look, eventually as you learn more, use the options manually to get the best results.

 

[olimario]

I want a dSLR then.
Can you find me a camera?

I want 6+ megapixels, a decent amount of zoom, a quick shutter speed so I don't get blurred moving objects, and I don't want grain.

I also want the kind of image space storage I get with my current camera, the Sony Cybershot F717. I get over 200 pictures 5mp 1280 with a 128mb stick.

 

[nitewulf]

I want a dSLR then.
Can you find me a camera?

I want 6+ megapixels, a decent amount of zoom, a quick shutter speed so I don't get blurred moving objects, and I don't want grain.

I also want the kind of image space storage I get with my current camera, the Sony Cybershot F717. I get over 200 pictures 5mp 1280 with a 128mb stick.

well storage space will depend on the memory device. and the canon digital rebel is probably the best entry level dslr. as for zoom, dslrs have interchangeable lenses and if you buy a kit, you'll get whatever lens the kit comes with. you can also buy any compatible lenses you like.

 

[AstroLad]

This program is great; already my "good" image quality pic looks 10X better.

One more question-

I suppose the best way to get a good image quality is to take it at the highest setting (3.1M), and then resize accordingly. What should I use to do this? I have a Windows Powertools resizer, but I think that shrinks it w/o retaining quality.

What should I do? Take 3.1 Pic -> Filter -> Resize (using?) ?

 

[olimario]

How do I use this program... it seems overly complicated.

 

[AstroLad]

How do I use this program... it seems overly complicated.

Just follow this- http://www.neatimage.com/howto.html- for a quick and easy job. Your pics usually look pretty damn nice to me though.

 

[nitewulf]

resize using microsoft picture it/paintshop pro/photoshop.

 

[AstroLad]

resize using microsoft picture it/paintshop pro/photoshop.

Err... Anything free?

 

[nitewulf]

hmm, picture it came w/ my computer...i dont know of any free image editing programs.

 

[Dilbert]

Does Picasa 2.0 have any editing tools? It's free...

 

[AstroLad]

Found this, seems to do the job-

http://www.irfanview.com/

It is slightly better than Powertools (less artifacting):

Powertools

Irfan

 

[Jotaro]

Buy Olympus cameras guys, best friggin' picture ever. My dad only buys these, not only they have the best picture quality, but the best hability to take great shots on bad conditions. And believe me, he used them in the hardest possible conditions (he's an engineer and travels around the world). I see his shots, I saw the Kilimanjaro and the Serengeti... best pictures i've ever seen.

 

[BugCatcher]

Found this, seems to do the job-

http://www.irfanview.com/

It is slightly better than Powertools (less artifacting):

Powertools

Irfan

Artifacting isn't a product of the resizing tool, it's a product of the level of compression you use when you save the .jpg. It's especially visible around the PS2 logo in the Powertools photo, but that one is only 21K, while the Infran one is 111K. On the other hand, you can see stepping in the Infran picture (top of the top drawer, top edge of the TV) that isn't in the Powertools one. If you want to compare, make sure you set the compression to the same level in each program.

I can't tell you which one is better though; I use Paint Shop Pro. You should be able to use the demo version to resize your pictures if you want to try it.

 

[SickBoy]

Buy Olympus cameras guys, best friggin' picture ever. My dad only buys these, not only they have the best picture quality, but the best hability to take great shots on bad conditions. And believe me, he used them in the hardest possible conditions (he's an engineer and travels around the world). I see his shots, I saw the Kilimanjaro and the Serengeti... best pictures i've ever seen.

I hope they've improved, but my older-model Olympus' biggest drawback is the level of noise in higher ISO shots. Unacceptably high, IMO. Of course, I can crank it down and use flash, but it's the one area where I'm not particularly thrilled.

But all in all, I think it takes excellent shots for a P&S, especially one that old (~2 years I think)

 

[AstroLad]

Artifacting isn't a product of the resizing tool, it's a product of the level of compression you use when you save the .jpg. It's especially visible around the PS2 logo in the Powertools photo, but that one is only 21K, while the Infran one is 111K. On the other hand, you can see stepping in the Infran picture (top of the top drawer, top edge of the TV) that isn't in the Powertools one. If you want to compare, make sure you set the compression to the same level in each program.

I can't tell you which one is better though; I use Paint Shop Pro. You should be able to use the demo version to resize your pictures if you want to try it.

Yeah Powertools is just a quick-and-easy windows plug-in that lets you resize photos in the menu when you right click them, Irfan I guess is a more fully-fledged program (from what I looked at, most people seemed to like it). I do see the stepping you're talking about though... strange. I'll see what I can do with the demo of Paint Shop Pro.

 

[Scrow]

Sony = Grain in poor light
I learned this the hard way
I'm going with a Nikon or a Canon the next go round

if you're smart you'll get a nikon


also, one way to help get better definition in your shots is to take the shot at the highest possible resolution and quality and then to scale it down to about 50-75% in photoshop or some other image editing software.

 

[Ill Saint]

also, one way to help get better definition in your shots is to take the shot at the highest possible resolution and quality and then to scale it down to about 50-75% in photoshop or some other image editing software.

Not a good idea if you wanna print, though.

 

[mrklaw]

you have a F717, you have a good camera right there. Work with it, not replace it.

You can do a lot with good flash. One simple option for indoor shots is to use the hotshoe, slap a cheap external flash on it, and aim the flash at the ceiling. Voila, nice internal lighting.

If you don't have a hotshoe, you can use an external flash coupled to a cheap slave actuator. That goes off when it senses the flash from the original camera.

 

[GXAlan]

Get http://www.neatimage.com/ to clean up the noise. The trick isn't to use 100% noise reduction -- do something like 80-90%.

 

[olimario]

Will somebody clean up this image for me?
I've been wanting to have it fixed for some time.

I just want the noise reduced... I'll color fix and sharpen later.

 

[AirBrian]

I want a dSLR then.
Can you find me a camera?

I want 6+ megapixels, a decent amount of zoom, a quick shutter speed so I don't get blurred moving objects, and I don't want grain.

I also want the kind of image space storage I get with my current camera, the Sony Cybershot F717. I get over 200 pictures 5mp 1280 with a 128mb stick.

I just went through the process myself.

http://ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=33960

There are some good links in there and some solid recommendations by a few of the GAF photography experts.

 

[btrboyev]

its always best to use a tripod in low light ot night shots. Oli's shot is not only grainy but blurry as well. A tripod would've fix both of those issues.

 

[Meatpuppet]

Yeah, the base image is a bit blurry. This is probably overdoing things, but meh.

 

[Richard Cranium]

its always best to use a tripod in low light ot night shots. Oli's shot is not only grainy but blurry as well. A tripod would've fix both of those issues.

Yep, I have a tiny tripod that fits into my camera case that comes in handy. Oli's picture is shot at ISO 800, which is practically useless on the F717 without post-processing. It's also shot at f8 for some reason.

 

[Phoenix]

Buy Olympus cameras guys, best friggin' picture ever. My dad only buys these, not only they have the best picture quality, but the best hability to take great shots on bad conditions. And believe me, he used them in the hardest possible conditions (he's an engineer and travels around the world). I see his shots, I saw the Kilimanjaro and the Serengeti... best pictures i've ever seen.

Winner! Most Olympus cameras are excellent in even bad lighting conditions. There are the exceptions to every rule, but I have had nothing but love from my SLR olympics and the next camera I plan on getting is just another olympus with 10x optical zoom.

One way to get rid of the grain in your images is also to just disable the damn digital zoom as it tends to introduce artifacts when zooming.