Chobel
Member
Next patch will let you download the cloud to your Xbone.
DirectX 12 GDC 2014 presentation: Low-Level Access, DX11 GPUs, Holiday 2015
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Next patch will let you download the cloud to your Xbone.
It depends on the game for me man. I'm perfectly fine with sprite games like Disgaea but if you're going to promise me the next gen of gaming then give me real graphics. I decided to return the X1 after sitting in a Microsoft store for 20 minutes watching Titanfall and Killer Instinct on their huge 1080p 60" TVs and I was actually turned off by the graininess of the games and they seemed to have like some kind of haze/blur over them? The backgrounds were also incredibly underwhelming. So far nothing has impressed like me the ocean in AC4 at 1080p but I guess that might change tomorrow when I get MGS5 and Infamous.
User Name Here
Member
Hope it gets released on Win7. Microsoft if you bring Direct X 12 it to Windows 7, they will come. And like buy an Xbone n' stuff.
Wonder if this will be good for Dolphin... Like for the DSP LLE interpreter.
Wonder if this will be good for Dolphin... Like for the DSP LLE interpreter.
exmachina64
Banned
Windows 9 is coming out in 2015. With Microsoft's track record, we should be pleased it's coming out on Windows 8.
Could have been especially if the other talks they gave today about DX12 were live blogged but sadly they weren't. It sounds to be an early alpha though so we'll hear a lot more about it over the year and relatively soon with BUILD coming up.
Not if you actually look at MS's track record instead of just their last two releases.
Windows 95: Great
Windows 98: Not really
Windows XP: Awesome, everybody loves it.
Windows Vista: Nope nope nope nope nope
Windows 7: Best Windows OS to date
Windows 8: Not so much.
Windows 9: Good (we may then conclude, based on how things have been going).
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Poor Windows Me, so horrendous and short lived, we blotted out most of it out from our collective memories.
Syphon Filter
Member
wasn't ME good,i remember liking it back then.
illustri0us
Banned
Windows 8 easily better than 7
Chance Hale
Member
The every other OS list is so very silly, but people like grouping things even when it doesn't work I suppose.
Syphon Filter
Member
Well I'd disagree with that assessment. There hasn't really been a versions of Windows I've disliked since I guess ME. Unless you could XP 64b.
It was basically 98 version 3 (since they apparently made a version 2). Which just happened to be awful.
Exactly, people who say Windows 8 is shit or worse than Windows 7 1. Don't know how to use Windows, 2. Are just following the trend and 3. Haven't actually used it.
Yes, the Metro theme isn't great for a Desktop, so don't use it. Win8.1 made it so you don't have to use it at all.
The new App layout when you hit the Windows key is great, hit Windows key, start typing, find program, run it. Doesn't get much simpler than that.
Windows 8 is incredibly fast, has a much better Task Manager, has a bunch of new and optimised features, supports newer drives, has better multi-display support, has OneDrive built in (the data is very cheap), etc....
Give it a go before just jumping on the band wagon.
Listen, I have windows 8. It's on the computer I'm using right now.
In fact, I regularly switch between computers with XP, Vista, 7, and 8 respectively.
Windows 8 is an objectively faster and better designed system from a functional, calculation-based standpoint. I believe I've heard it's more stable, which I can't deny, but 7 was a very stable system itself.
However, 7 is simply a better system from a usability, user-interface-based standpoint. It just is, and I'm really not going to go into all the whys and hows as much smarter people than me have already done that.
Windows 8 is a great system. And honestly, Windows Vista was actually a really good system too. Vista was only bad because it was rushed terribly, and was broken at launch. But as far as usability, it isn't really all that bad.
Really, all the Windows have been great, which is why we have such mass adoptions. I was just noting the pattern they follow as far as how they were each generally received publicly is all.
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And guys, I really didn't want to derail the thread and start a "windows 8 is terrible" argument. A Windows 8 v. 7 conversation is probably better suited for elsewhere. Just a thought.
Chance Hale
Member
Windows 7 isn't really better from a usability standard, it's just more familiar to people who don't know how to use computers and have no desire to spend 30 seconds to understand minor changes.
Bummer that this is so far away but with it, Mantle, and other options optimizations will hopefully really start to show.
Bummer that this is so far away but with it, Mantle, and other options optimizations will hopefully really start to show.
VisceralBowl
Member
What about Windows ME and 2000? I think most people remember those.
At the very least, that's true for me. I was in the "Windows 8 is awful" camp without ever having tried it, then after all of several minutes learning what had changed, I liked it. Granted, this is 8.1; I don't know if I would have liked a full Metro interface.
As a person going from one to the other back and forth, and having been doing so for nearly a year, I can certainly say that 7 is simply easier to learn and use. It's more intuitive, and (and this is even stuff NASA did when making button panels in spacecraft, and they had to make things easy to learn in case of emergencies in space which are literally life and death situations) 7 does a better job of keeping things redundant without making them intrusive.
I read a lot and listen to a lot about UI design (no expert, just repeating what I understand), and basically, a UI is best when it is flexible. You need to allow the user to do anything they want multiple different ways. It just makes it easier to learn.
For example, all the windows up through 7 allowed you to do pretty much anything you wanted with EITHER the keyboard OR the mouse. In windows 8, that is impossible. You cannot do any great number of things without both. It restricts the user, because in a sense it funnels them.
It's still windows, so it still allows for doing multiple things multiple ways, but not nearly on the scale of 7.
anchorman128
Member
It is absolutely an abysmal operating system for power users. It has an absolutely Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde feeling with 2 disjunctive interface that each use their own collection of programs. It for absolutely no good reason got rid of shadow copy and offers no equal alternative. On laptops it prevents you from installing other OS's or enter the bios without jumping through all sorts of hoops. The Bing centric experience, usless clutter meant for touch devices, etc. I could go one for days, there is not a single reason for me to "downgrade" to windows 8 or 8.1.
(Actually want to know) What can you do in Win7 with the keyboard that you can't in 8? I don't think they would have removed any of the short cuts (at least I haven't found any missing).
Like I said before, ME/2000 (2000 was essentially ME pro) lasted for less than a year and was really more or less an expansion of 98.
I mean, we could see that happen again: Windows 8, like 98, isn't a horrible system as it could be, but it just isn't as good as it's predecessor. Windows 9, like ME/2000, could very well end up being downright awful, then in Windows 10 (why do I get the feeling it'll be Windows X? Or more likely, just "Windows"), will end up being the awesome system that everybody loves and adores (like XP).
Chance Hale
Member
Windows 8 didn't remove any shortcuts, and it only added new ones(the wonderful start x/,right click on start) If you can do something in Windows 7 it works in 8. It's like people complaining about the hide applications being in the bottom right and hard to see despite that being how it was in Windows 7 >_>
Not to mention windows 8 is still customizable. How do you think people install start x?
Not to mention windows 8 is still customizable. How do you think people install start x?
Those don't fit the narrative.
I also don't know in what world 95 was considered better than 98/SE or XP was accepted as an improvement until long into its lifecycle. Anyone who loves 7 should think Vista is great, too, as it is nearly identical to 7 across the board -- its initial acceptance was hurt by poorly-written third-party programs and terrible drivers (all of which would cause the same problems on 7).
What? 2000 was the NT 5.0, the first version of the business/workstation (NT) line that supported consumer features as well. XP was NT 5.1, the primary points of differentiation being marketing and the ugly Fisher-Price theme for home users.
You are right, you could go on, but you'll just be more wrong.
I forgot how (can't remember the shortcuts), but I believe it is possible to, from booting up your computer, without using the mouse, open any program you wish without having to use the search function for it, just using the keyboard, close it, open another one, shrink it, and do a bunch of other things.
Again, most of that you can do with Windows 8, but...yeah.
I mean, the start screen, for instance. There is no way on earth that I know of to get from the start screen to "All apps" just using your keyboard. That was super easy and obvious with windows 7.
By clicking the install button.
What are you implying? That Windows 7 would not allow that kind of program? Why shouldn't it? It would just be redundant, since it already has a windows key, though hey, I guess you could try creating an application that works like the windows 8 start screen.
And goodness, you heathen, if you insist on a start menu for windows 8, get Start8. It's much more professional (I don't have it on my PC, but it is by far the most professional one I've used).
Chance Hale
Member
Tab>enter
I meant start 8, the point was the os is still flexible as Windows as always been. No shortcuts were removed, only more added.
It did involve using search, every program you install doesn't have a shortcut key aromatically assigned to it (as far as I know), so it has to use search. In Win 8 you do above by hitting Windows key, typing what you want and hitting enter.
You hit Windows key, then tab them enter. Full list of Apps. Now arrow to what you want.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
The problem is since Win 7 was introduced touch has become a very common input method and Windows 7 SUCKS with touch (and pen). It's horrible. A new interface had to be developed that could work with keyboard, mouse and touch. There is very little that I could do in 7 that I can't do in 8 and at the same time there is plenty that I can do in 8 that I can't do in 7. My media machine is still running 7 and if feels a lot slower to navigate than 8 especially with mouse only.
This would also rule out Windows XP as something everybody loved it. I remember when XP hit and all gamers were clinging to Win98 SE for dear life. Nobody wanted to be on XP that made your games run worse, and fucked with your mouse aim. I can't remember at what point everyone became happy with it, but it was not at launch.
anchorman128
Member
Such a compelling argument, you got me.
Tell me, how the heck was I supposed to know that?
In windows 7, if I wanted "All programs" all I have to do is press Windows Key, press up once, and boom, there I am. It's super obvious what I need to do.
Listen, I've tried teaching windows 8 to people. It's much harder than 7. Not because it's not what they're used to (I'm talking, like people who use macs, the poor things), it's just simply less obvious to go "oh, how do I do this again?"
Placement in windows 7 just makes sense. I constantly run into (in windows 8), "Wait, why the heck did they put that there?"
You know what, forget all of that. Windows 8 is a horrible operating system to use if you have any inclination to dig deep into it. "Permissions, permissions, permissions." Oh my goodness I hate those. You have to jump through So. Many. Hoops just to get things to work. I just wanted to change one little value because I was getting a blue screen. It fixed the problem but oh my goodness was that a pain. I literally had three dozen tabs pulled up, and about as many windows pulled up with all the different places I needed to go to get "permission."
I hate windows 8's "security" features. They're awful, and make using the system a horrible experience.
Chance Hale
Member
You know that because tabbing is a basic windows function that has been around for more than a decade.
And it's really not hard to teach people, I've shown quite a few people how to use it in within a few minutes who previously were down on it. It's just not very complicated but if you operate from the perspective on trying to be down on every minor change, even when they're perfectly reasonable than sure. And adjust your permission settings, Windows 7 does the exact same thing. You probably just did that years ago and forgot.
And it's really not hard to teach people, I've shown quite a few people how to use it in within a few minutes who previously were down on it. It's just not very complicated but if you operate from the perspective on trying to be down on every minor change, even when they're perfectly reasonable than sure. And adjust your permission settings, Windows 7 does the exact same thing. You probably just did that years ago and forgot.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
How is pressing up super obvious? Infact, how is pressing the Windows key to open the Start menu super obvious? It's only obvious because you know how it works.
anchorman128
Member
Pressing up is super obvious as the first option above the start button is the all programs tab, he said to press up for the sake of the argument it is right in front of your face if you are too oblivious to notice. He could have said click on it as well but I assume his hands didn't want to leave the keyboard in that example.
On to your second point, the windows key looks exactly like the button. Come on don't act like the windows key (a key made specifically for a single menu) is as hard to use/remember as some Microsoft hot keys. My 81 year old grandma uses the windows button, however she has no desire to learn hotkeys.
Are you serious? Tab has been the main way you navigate a Windows OS using the keyboard since forever.
I had never done what you just asked, so I thought I would see if I could before answering your post. I hit the Windows key, tried hitting the down arrow, but that just navigates the tiles (makes sense) so to move to the next section, hit Tab, and done.
Bro do you even have windows 7?
You don't need the search function at all. Just hit windows key and all programs. Now go through what you want until you find it.
Oh, can't find it? Maybe it's hidden? That's OK! Just hit right on the arrow key and click "My Computer." Now look until you find it.
For people who get rid of the search function for speed purposes (not uncommon at all), this is very useful.
It's obvious, because it's above where the selection automatically is (the search bar).
If you don't know what up does, then I really don't have anything to say to you. In that case, you can't use either system.
Same with the start button, if you don't know that, you can't use either.
So basically, I only have to tell you how to use the arrow keys and the windows key in windows 7. Very basic. Most people know that.
If you're going to use windows 8, you have to know those things, and more, if you're only going to use the keyboard.
Listen, from having had to tell people, most people have no idea what tab does.
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EDIT: gah, I gotta go. I didn't even mean to get into this argument anyway.
Chance Hale
Member
You do realize that Windows 8 also has file explorer? And My computer with everything in the same place? Everything you're describing is something learned and not at all obvious. If you think tabbing is something crazy and off beat I don't know what to say.
No Bro, when 8 came out I upgraded.
Windows 8 lets you choose if you want All Programs to show or the Win 8 tiles to show when you hit the Windows key. So you can just hit the Windows key and see all your apps if you use that settings (as I do). Or, if you use the tiles (as I do on my Surface Pro) then you just start typing to find what you want.
This is a stupid line of conversation, both systems do what is required, the only difference is one gives some extra options and works with touch, it is improved.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
You're missing the point, most people don't know that even CAN navigate Windows with only the keyboard so none of what you mentioned is super obvious. I know a lot of people who never even knew what the Windows key did. Anyone that knows that you can navigate with the keyboard knows tabbing is a thing that exists also. If you press the Windows key to get to the Start menu you just need to press Tab to get to the down arrow for all programs and then hit enter to go there. To get to pinned programs you just use the arrow keys.
I use Windows 8...I use this http://www.classicshell.net/
it doesn't even feel any different than windows 7 aesthetically.
it doesn't even feel any different than windows 7 aesthetically.
Chance Hale
Member
The problem lies with people disliking it for inaccurate reasons which are constantly disproved yet continuing to spread silliness wherever they go. Amusingly it is the people who thread shit windows 8 that come off as the most silly given as mentioned, it is just an OS.
anchorman128
Member
Exactly, things that have been learned over OS revision after OS revision. Stop acting like using the start menu is some monumental learned task. The start menu has been there for many years and I can guarantee anyone who has used Windows for more than a few days knows about it. That is a lot easier to expect any desktop user to understand then searching through the charms on the right hand side for a search function.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Which is why making lists like:
Windows 95: Great
Windows 98: Not really
Windows XP: Awesome, everybody loves it.
Windows Vista: Nope nope nope nope nope
Windows 7: Best Windows OS to date
Windows 8: Not so much.
Windows 9: Good (we may then conclude, based on how things have been going).
Is stupid.
Jessie.Bristol
Member
I didn't see it posted in the OP, but according to Microsoft, DirectX 12 will give up to 20% more performance per frame on Xbox One: http://wccftech.com/microsoft-unveiels-directx-12-api-gdc-2014-mantle-level-features/