Discuss: The new 3DS and the emergent "split userbase"... is this a good trend?

His last paragraph states why it WOULDNT split the userbase. How is making games that work for both any different than say Resident Evil Revelations or Monster Hunter that can take advantage of the CPP, which the N3DS basically has built in now, but doesnt require it? We'll all be playing the same games barring a few "exclusive" titles which for all we know after Xenoblade could be nothing but DSiware levels of "exclusive" games.

Are you kidding me? Yea, let's showcase what the NEW 3DS can do by porting one of the greatest JRPG's ever made, but please, don't do anything too radical after that, just continue making regular 3DS games with the old CPU in mind.

I have a WiiU, and with the NEW 3DS, it's going to be able to do things with the WiiU.

Can I do that with my current 3DS. No.

Will I be able to play whatever exclusives come out on the NEW 3DS. No. (obviously)

Userbase, split. Maybe not to the extreme but split enough to make me not want to buy nintendo handhelds anymore. I'm an early adopter. I'm in the ambassador club. Why was there an ambassador program, because nintendo worked over people who supported them right out the gate. Nintendo has a modern history of doing this (i understand the former is a price drop and the latter is a hardware revision) but similar principles apply when concerning consumers and their money. It's ok to find fault in these business practices because there are faults within them. But it is what it is, i've already made my points and I know there are people who feel the same. It's not my job to have people view it the same way I do. I just want to voice my distaste with stuff like this, especially when it concerns Nintendo because I f*cking love nintendo and they have been killing me these last couple years.

Different strokes for different folks.
 
Because the New 3DS will surely have features that involve the WiiU and WiiU software.

Give me a video, picture, statement, or anything that's not conjecture to use as the basis of this reasoning.

And before you bring up that unified architecture statement, you might want to read how Nintendo actually described their plans to investors. They envision something like iOS in regards to both development and account system. That would be a completely new platform altogether.

I believe this thread is about the userbase being split.

You basically cemented my point with your last paragraph.

I never knew that the N3DS would magically make original 3DS hardware stop playing 3DS compatible games. I said that the most practical solution would be to make games that can be played on original 3DS hardware, but have enhancements on N3DS. How does that split the userbase?

I'm not against the NEW 3DS or xenoblade being ported, I literally think it's awesome, this NEW 3DS looks fantastic. My problem lies in the liberty that nintendo has been taking with their fans these last few years. It's messed up. It's the same reason I don't buy apple products.

Last few years? They've been doing this for little less than 15 years and those last few times worked out pretty well.
 
But it's not.

The evolution of Nintendo's previous handhelds was not on the scale that the NEW 3DS has the potential for.

Good grief. I think some people are seriously missing the point here.

Let's try to have some semblance of objectivity when it comes to Nintendo.
It has been shown many times in this thread that the New 3DS is similar to the DSi and GBC upgrades. The same scale in hardware revisions to CPU and RAM.

Will more exclusive games come out for the New 3DS's? Probably. Will Nintendo ditch the OG 3DS userbase? No.

I think that is as objective as you can get.
 
It's nowhere near apple products. First it's a $175 or w/e product versus a $600-700 product released yearly. It'll have been 4 years since they've had a full on hardware revision to the 3DS. How long would you have them wait? You don't want new 3DS adopters to have a faster OS, amiibo support, a better browser, and a second circle pad? Yeah on second thought screw them.

bleh. I never said once that i don't want this made. I've said multiple times that the new 3ds looks fantastic. You Sir, are missing the point completely and I'm not going to explain it again.
 
bleh. I never said once that i don't want this made. I've said multiple times that the new 3ds looks fantastic. You Sir, are missing the point completely and I'm not going to explain it again.

As much as you and I love Xenoblade, it's a port. It is not new content designed exclusively for the N3DS as the main showcase of new features that can only be achieved on the N3DS.

At least the GBC got infrared sensors and the DSi had cameras. The N3DS just gets the CPP built-in instead.
 
As much as you and I love Xenoblade, it's a port. It is not new content designed exclusively for the N3DS as the main showcase of new features that can only be achieved on the N3DS.

At least the GBC got infrared sensors and the DSi had cameras. The N3DS just gets the CPP built-in instead.

and a new CPU.

Again,

why would nintendo release a NEW 3DS with lots of great features and not plan on using these features to their full potential going forward. Nintendo makes some bad decisions but they aren't that clueless.
 
Are you kidding me? Yea, let's showcase what the NEW 3DS can do by porting one of the greatest JRPG's ever made, but please, don't do anything too radical after that, just continue making regular 3DS games with the old CPU in mind.

I have a WiiU, and with the NEW 3DS, it's going to be able to do things with the WiiU.

Can I do that with my current 3DS. No.

Will I be able to play whatever exclusives come out on the NEW 3DS. No. (obviously)

Userbase, split. Maybe not to the extreme but split enough to make me not want to buy nintendo handhelds anymore. I'm an early adopter. I'm in the ambassador club. Why was there an ambassador program, because nintendo worked over people who supported them right out the gate. Nintendo has a modern history of doing this (i understand the former is a price drop and the latter is a hardware revision) but similar principles apply when concerning consumers and their money. It's ok to find fault in these business practices because there are faults within them. But it is what it is, i've already made my points and I know there are people who feel the same. It's not my job to have people view it the same way I do. I just want to voice my distaste with stuff like this, especially when it concerns Nintendo because I f*cking love nintendo and they have been killing me these last couple years.

Different strokes for different folks.

Whats all this talk about WiiU functionality? Maybe I missed something but I haven't read anything that states this will be working in tandem with the WiiU.

And we still dont know how big the CPU upgrade was, maybe Xenoblade could have ran on the OG 3DS but it would have had to cut out enough stuff that didn't make it worth it. But it doesnt mean that future games can't work for the OG 3DS's and still take advantage of the newer CPU. They could create a scaler for games like on PC's that allow it to function at two variable levels. You buy a musou game for N3DS and you can have up to 50 enemies on the screen thanks to the new CPU but when put in OG 3DS you only see 40. Or maybe with something like Pokemon you get that "full 3D" effect without the frame drops on the N3DS unlike on the OG ones. Still works for both though.

We have no idea what there plan is and so far all the negative reaction toward the N3DS i've seen have been nothing more but overreactions of baseless assumptions that everyone thinks its true. Maybe it does turn out that way or maybe it doesnt who knows, but people are getting so worked up for something we have hardly any information about.

and a new CPU.

Again,

why would nintendo release a NEW 3DS with lots of great features and not plan on using these features to their full potential going forward. Nintendo makes some bad decisions but they aren't that clueless.

Yet here you are thinking they're gonna just leave behind 45million people. okay.
 
I'd rather have a whole new system than a stopgap, honestly.

As much as I want to see Nintendo's next handheld platform, something like this had to be expected due to how well the DSi did to extend the lifetime of the Nintendo DS.

and a new CPU.

Again,

why would nintendo release a NEW 3DS with lots of great features and not plan on using these features to their full potential going forward. Nintendo makes some bad decisions but they aren't that clueless.

Well, I didn't list any performance enhancements because the GBC and DSi also got CPU + RAM upgrades, so what's new?
 
and a new CPU.

Again,

why would nintendo release a NEW 3DS with lots of great features and not plan on using these features to their full potential going forward. Nintendo makes some bad decisions but they aren't that clueless.
So did the GBC and the DSi.

I don't know how to explain this anymore.
 
and a new CPU.

Again,

why would nintendo release a NEW 3DS with lots of great features and not plan on using these features to their full potential going forward. Nintendo makes some bad decisions but they aren't that clueless.

The DSi had better specs, as already proven in this thread. It also sold in the dozens of millions, which is more than the New 3ds can hope to, yet how many exclusive games took advantage of the beefed up DSi?

Who is going to be making these beefed up New 3ds exclusives? What publisher/developer is going to torpedo their own financial success?
 
No, you understand this: with the introduction of the New 3DS, will all your current and existing 3DS games not work anymore? Will all the 3DS games that will be produced not work with your existing 3DS? Will Nintendo and the other developers focus all development on exclusive New 3DS games that will not play on the OG 3DS/3DS XL going forward? No.

Everything that is currently working and will be working on the 3DS will still work as usual.

Xenoblade Chronicles is exclusively announced for the New 3DS because it cannot literally be run on the current 3DS. It does not mean its arrival will herald the end of all OG 3DS games. We already have a precedent with this: DSi and the GBC (and the GBC was NOT an entirely new system; the real successor of the GB was the GBA). The exclusive games on the New 3DS are just icing on the cake of what is essentially a beefed up 3DS with extra features, all of which will not cause the current 3DS units to be magically obsolete because games will still be made for it.

Your blind defense of this is rather funny.
 

If you are an early adopter, you've had three years with a great device... you should be excited about the new hardware capabilities and potential this new one has? Instead you go on rants stating you've been a fan for "blah blah" years and how the glory days of nostalgia are behind you... you sound like a football fan saying how they've been a fan of whatever team for "this many" years and how they constantly let them down.

If they announced a completely new gen device would you be stating this same rant?
 
Well, he has over a decade of precedent to back him up. Provide the reasoning for why Nintendo won't do the practical solution of making 3DS-compatible games that are N3DS-enhanced.

Don't bother. It's Phoenician_Viking. For some reason, he becomes irrational when it comes to Nintendo. Iwata probably accidentally ran over his puppy or something.
 
and a new CPU.
.
its not a new cpu.

3ds has 233 mhz Arm 11 cpu with arm 9 for ds support
new 3ds has 566 mhz Arm 11 cpu with arm 9 for ds support

both still use a pica200 gpu same clock.
both use the same screen resolutions pixel density went down on new 3ds.
ram was doubled from og 3ds.
vram went up 4MB from 6MB OG 3ds to 10MB on new 3ds.

computer and embedded hardware is my life, my study, my future profession.
 
its not a new cpu.

3ds has 233 mhz Arm 11 cpu with arm 9 for ds support
new 3ds has 566 mhz Arm 11 cpu with arm 9 for ds support

both still use a pica200 gpu same clock.
both use the same screen resolutions pixel density went down on new 3ds.
ram was doubled from og 3ds.
vram went up 4MB from 6MB OG 3ds to 10MB on new 3ds.

computer and embedded hardware is my life, my study, my future profession.

Wait really, Pixel density went down? Does anyone know by how much?
 
Don't bother. It's Phoenician_Viking. For some reason, he becomes irrational when it comes to Nintendo. Iwata probably accidentally ran over his puppy or something.

I'm trying to make a good faith effort into why there is such a disproportionate reaction to this in comparison to similar upgrades in the past. I would like to believe that most of the outrage would come from the fact that the browser has a lock on it than the hardware improvement in general.

At the moment though, it seems mostly grounded on the irrational belief that 3DS software development is dead in favor of N3DS exclusive software development.
 
If you are an early adopter, you've had three years with a great device... you should be excited about the new hardware capabilities and potential this new one has? Instead you go on rants stating you've been a fan for "blah blah" years and how the glory days of nostalgia are behind you... you sound like a football fan saying how they've been a fan of whatever team for "this many" years and how they constantly let them down.

If they announced a completely new gen device would you be stating this same rant?

Damn straight I would, 3 years is pretty low lifespan for a system. Especially since it took awhile for the really good games to get rolling and we still haven't gotten some good ones in from Japan in english yet (Dragon quest 7).

Imagine if there had been a completely new device only 3 years into the Ds's lifespan, how many great games that where made for it that wouldn't have been simply because the developers would have to learn the new system not to mention the higher budgets.
 
Damn straight I would, 3 years is pretty low lifespan for a system. Especially since it took awhile for the really good games to get rolling and we still haven't gotten some good ones in from Japan in english yet (Dragon quest 7).

Imagine if there had been a completely new device only 3 years into the Ds's lifespan, how many great games that where made for it that wouldn't have been simply because the developers would have to learn the new system not to mention the higher budgets.

No need to imagine, just check up on those history books:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_DSi
 
I think it'll sell shittons. They'll start out by making MH4G and Pokémon Z enhanced for the new 3DS, and they'll get everyone and their mother to upgrade in 2016 with MH5 and. Pokémon Gen 7 exclusive to new 3DS. So split username won't be a problem. :)
 
The Gameboy Color didn't split the userbase
The RAM expansion for the N64 didn't split the userbase.
The DSi wasn't support enough to make any conclusion about it.

So I doubt the New 3DS will split do it. People will just buy the new version if the game they want to play can only be played on it.
 
It would be better if they would have announced a separate DS.
This new 3DS looks great and I'm happy that I've waited but I'm a bit annoyed that most games will not be using the better hardware.
A new device would allow new and better technology and more changes in hardware and software.
I really don't like the 3DS screen, graphics, sound and the controls.
But I really want to play their games.
 
its not a new cpu.

3ds has 233 mhz Arm 11 cpu with arm 9 for ds support
new 3ds has 566 mhz Arm 11 cpu with arm 9 for ds support

both still use a pica200 gpu same clock.
both use the same screen resolutions pixel density went down on new 3ds.
ram was doubled from og 3ds.
vram went up 4MB from 6MB OG 3ds to 10MB on new 3ds.

computer and embedded hardware is my life, my study, my future profession.

Why in the world not up the gpu speed too? Would cost nothing at this point.
 
Oh yes, your post history does not show any kind of blind loyalty to Nintendo. Oh wait.

Firstly, it's hilarious that your defense to that allegation is actually, "bu... but... you're a fanboy too!"

Second, how about you engage the topic at hand instead of simply doing drive-by interjections of lame internet smugness? If someone is wrong, the proper way of discussion is to say why, not posting the equivalent of a diva's smirk and head-twirl.

If we all begin with substance, the rest of us don't have to wade through an exchange of discrediting each other with post histories and avatars. This applies to everyone, myself included.

Thanks!
 
The Gameboy Color didn't split the userbase
The RAM expansion for the N64 didn't split the userbase.
The DSi wasn't support enough to make any conclusion about it.

So I doubt the New 3DS will split do it. People will just buy the new version if the game they want to play can only be played on it.
Seriously. Some people meltdown over nothing. You're not happy with it or don't like the idea enough not to want to get it? Then don't. Nintendo is still in a pretty desperate situation, they couldn't just let the 3DS carry on for another year in it's current state as sales would have stalled even more than they have already.
 
Why in the world not up the gpu speed too? Would cost nothing at this point.

65 nano meter chip max clock is 400mhz thats what 3ds's is at if they went higher it would be overclocking the chip draining battery life and could cause heat concerns for the hardware. just nintendo taking precautions.
 
What about viewing this in another way

Suppose a future system comes out with a slot. This 'slot' is said right from the beginning to be a place where future hardware iterations - mainly tech upgrades - will be sold for those willing to buy it. They will be much cheaper than buying entirely new hardware, but the 'drawback' is there will obviously have to be whole new games devoted to taking advantage of those upgraded specs. But is it a drawback? In what ways is this strategy different from simply releasing a whole new console? Aren't there some benefits for the consumer in handling upgrades this way? Why is it just automatically viewed as some runaway freight train to actually have a PS4.5?

I am not taking a stand, merely trying to draw out deeper conclusions.


It never works. We naturally want games to be the absolute best they can be. To me, the whole point of a consols is that I get a few games that have been specifically designed for this one combination of hardware (sometimes producing spectacular results). These optional upgrades are never going to be embraced by the entire userbase which is why developers/publishers then can't justify devoting all of their recourses to building games for this subset of upgraded users thereby negating the whole point of said upgrades.
 
QUOTE=Amir0x;127589936]What about viewing this in another way

Suppose a future system comes out with a slot. This 'slot' is said right from the beginning to be a place where future hardware iterations - mainly tech upgrades - will be sold for those willing to buy it. They will be much cheaper than buying entirely new hardware, but the 'drawback' is there will obviously have to be whole new games devoted to taking advantage of those upgraded specs. But is it a drawback? In what ways is this strategy different from simply releasing a whole new console? Aren't there some benefits for the consumer in handling upgrades this way? Why is it just automatically viewed as some runaway freight train to actually have a PS4.5?

I am not taking a stand, merely trying to draw out deeper conclusions.
[/QUOTE]


It never works. We naturally want games to be the absolute best they can be. To me, the whole point of a consols is that I get a few games that have been specifically designed for this one combination of hardware (sometimes producing spectacular results). These optional upgrades are never going to be embraced by the entire userbase which is why developers/publishers then can't justify devoting all of their recourses to building games for this subset of upgraded users thereby negating the whole point of said upgrades.
 
I think it'll sell shittons. They'll start out by making MH4G and Pokémon Z enhanced for the new 3DS, and they'll get everyone and their mother to upgrade in 2016 with MH5 and. Pokémon Gen 7 exclusive to new 3DS. So split username won't be a problem. :)

I can imagine the Nu3ds will invigorate sales in Japan. But Japan isn't where the 3ds needs the most help. I don't see anything about this new revision that will do much for sales in any other region except get hardcore Nintendo fans to upgrade.

For one the price on this model is probably gonna be higher than the current 3ds and 3ds XL prices. It doesn't offer any really substantial changes. A c-stick nub, a tweak of the 3d feature that hasn't worked as a hook so far, 2 new shoulder buttons, a beefed up cpu that no one outside of the video game community will even know about, none of these are selling points.

The only chance this thing takes off in the west is if Amiibo takes off first. Outside of that, this new system, while probably the best version of the 3ds we'll ever get, does nothing to address why the 3ds is doing poorly outside of Japan in the first place.
 
Because no developer is going to ignore the current 3ds install base and the extra buttons will remain optional for most games like how the CCP is optional for the very few games tha even support it. Developers aren't going to look at the increased cpu power and think "well we could make X times more money making a normal 3ds game, but I can't ignore that extra cpu power so let's forget about being successful!"

Well, it depends. If the current power issues are really a bottleneck in game development, if the changes allowed easier adaptation of current mobile games (although I don't think a simple RAM/VRAM boost could really make that difference,) then sure, I could see them supporting it and ignoring the larger market in favor of something they can produce affordably without stretching the budget trying to cut it down or fit it in. It was eons ago, but the GBC (and a very different scale of upgrade, even though the chipset wasn't at all a generational leap) did have that breakthrough tipping point where it very quickly became the dominant system (look at the library, it's shocking how many Game Boy Color exclusive titles shipped in that system's short run.)

The sad thing with these billions of portables is that the new systems are selling the new games, they never beg to be fed like a console, they often just get their first Mario and Pokemon and a few other things before it goes on a shelf or in their backpack. If these people do manage to get tired of their old games, usually what they reach for is the sequel or the familiar game to what they already own. The "install base" doesn't mean as it's all an active base of customers. (The trick with F4P mobile games is that even if that habit sets in, there's always turnover in new devices and so new chances to get a phenomenon going, plus no barrier to entry and now push messaging and other marketing techniques allow them to reach people who might take a rare chance that they wouldn't for even the small $30-40 that a 3DS game costs.) Nintendo does do a good job of getting gamers to come back for its products, and there are some portable perennials that have a fanbase, but in general, it is a surprisingly difficult market to make headway in.

And the thing about splitting user bases is that when it happens with a portable, when/if it happens, it happens quickly because of that. When Nintendo announced the DS, it was the "third pillar" to the GBA, but by that Chrismas even and certainly early that next year the GBA software had dried up aside from some still-in-development Pokemon games and the odd stray Kirby game (and no, I am nor forgetting DrillDozer.) DS was the most popular gaming system of all time, but again, even the shovelware was dead when 3DS hit and Nintendo did the usual late-term Pokemon/Kirby releases (even if it was hitting a natural slump, the last year of software support was disproportionate to its size.) As I mentioned before, GBC took over (you'll see a hell of a lot "Only on Game Boy Color" banners than you will stuff like Zelda: Links Awakening DX with enhancements when running GBC). These systems, however, were all cheaper than the 3DS today, and there were fewer choices stopping gamers from upgrading their Nintendo handhelds, so the odds are much tougher this time.

The main thing is, there are a lot of games that are NOT being made for Nintendo 3DS right now, despite the system's success. So will this New 3DS system create a market where those games are more attractive and feasible to be made? Probably not (like I said before, the original 3DS is hardly being pushed it its limits so why do developers need more horsepower?) but if there's a tipping point that this hardware leads to a ramp in, it could happen. It'd certainly make Nintendo very happy if this new system gave a jump to software development on its platform, so if it takes off, they'd be fine with leaving mostly behind the old install base to nurture a new one, they've done it before; but then again, it didn't happen with DSi and they didn't push it (aside from on the DSiWare shop) when that didn't happen.
 
Luckily it doesn't matter what you consider the GBC to be, Nintendo considers it part of the same line. Plus some (most? I don't know the numbers) GBC games could be played on the original GB, so it's not just a case of the GBC being backwards compatible, it's games working across them interchangeably.

and the GBC was NOT an entirely new system; the real successor of the GB was the GBA

Like 80% of GBC releases weren't backwards compatible.

It was definitely a new system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Game_Boy_Color_games

Edit: about 72% according to a forum post I found
 
Xenoblade Chronicles is exclusively announced for the New 3DS because it cannot literally be run on the current 3DS. It does not mean its arrival will herald the end of all OG 3DS games. We already have a precedent with this: DSi and the GBC (and the GBC was NOT an entirely new system; the real successor of the GB was the GBA). The exclusive games on the New 3DS are just icing on the cake of what is essentially a beefed up 3DS with extra features, all of which will not cause the current 3DS units to be magically obsolete because games will still be made for it.

Yeah but development resources are being geared towards N3DS games leaving the OG 3DS owners in a worse position and with less software support.
 
Nope. Was disappointed with the decision quite a lot. The fragmentation and the new naming convention will cause nothing but problems, especially for the bigger market. The 3DS XL I bought last year is now potentially out the door... First ninty console I've bought in a long time.... Thanks!

Saying that... the main reason I bought the 3DS was for Monster Hunter 4... which this new 3DS seems made for. If capcom do announce that it benefits from the new 3DS with better textures, etc... and this comes out in europe:

TlJaisB.png


Then shut up and take my disappointed money!
 
This has been done before with the GameBoy Color and even the DSi (even though that had a very small amount of exclusive games). I'm not mad that Nintendo decided to go this route but I would like for them to offer some sort of trade-in program because I would like to get my hands on that new 3DS. I love my 3DS XL but I'm always willing to upgrade for the right price.
 
Why does Neogaf always react so much for Nintendo hardware releases? I realise his one is a little different, but even minor tweaks like the DS lite or a special edition 3DS get people clamouring to double or triple dip. Maybe it's the price but there does seem to be a collectability for handhelds.

I'm slightly frustrated by this particular revision. If it was just a faster CPU for better miiverse/web browser experience and faster downloads from the store, and they basically built in the circle pad pro for those games that support it, I'd have been fine. Basically just another revision. But the exclusive games worries me. i just want another proper handheld, not a warm over of the current one, and this feels like Nintendo trying to extend the life of the 3DS when I'd prefer them to move on.
 
Like 80% of GBC releases weren't backwards compatible.

It was definitely a new system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Game_Boy_Color_games

Edit: about 72% according to a forum post I found

Keyword being entirely. The GBC was an 8-bit system, just like the OG GB line. The GBA was 32-bit; it was the true next-generation system following the GB line. So basically, the GBC was to the GB what the New 3DS is to the OG 3DS. In two or three years, we will get the real successor of the 3DS and I would bet that it will have the updated features of the New 3DS integrated into it.

Yeah but development resources are being geared towards N3DS games leaving the OG 3DS owners in a worse position and with less software support.


The thing is we do not know exactly what the extent of resources Nintendo or its partner developers are allocating to the New 3DS. For all we know, the new exclusive games for it would just be like the DSi's. This is why it's really ridiculous when people jump to conclusions claiming that the New 3DS will make their old 3DS's obsolete.
 
What if:

  • Retail games have to be backwards compatible
  • eShop only games do not, and if they are not they do not show up in the shop on older 3DSes at all
  • Xenoblade will be an eShop only game
???
 
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