Support NeoGAF

[NecrosaroIII]

I'm conflicted about it. On the one hand, it's our legal right to discuss salary with our co-workers. It's that way so we can fairly leverage that information when negotiating pay with the employer, and I think it's corporate propaganda that turned it into a taboo.

On the other hand, I don't think most people are emotionally and intellectually equipped to use that information properly. Instead of using pay rates as a tool when discussing pay with management, I've seen co-workers turn on each other out of jealousy.

 

[Mikado]

Couple decades ago, I worked at a startup-grade company where the HR person ragequit.

Her parting gift was leaving copies of the payroll chart on the printers for us in the night-owl crew to discover. Listed everyone's salary from the receptionist to the CEO.

That was a fun week

Edit: To answer your question - fuck no. Ain't nobody coming out of that discussion feeling good about it. Full-on Crabs in a Bucket and it never seems to result in the Glorious Workers Unite Revolution people think it will.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Couple decades ago, I worked at a startup-grade company where the HR person ragequit.

Her parting gift was leaving copies of the payroll chart on the printers for us in the night-owl crew to discover. Listed everyone's salary from the receptionist to the CEO.

That was a fun week

Damn. Did the Night staff at least get an overnight differential

 

[Superkewl]

Most of the places I have worked have specifically asked that you don't. Leads to a lot of workplace drama and resentment.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Not a chance. That is no one’s business but mine (and my boss I suppose).

If you look at places where this info is publicly shared ( like a government “sunshine” list) it drives up costs and breeds discontent.

People need to know their own value, not others.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Most of the places I have worked have specifically asked that you don't. Leads to a lot of workplace drama and resentment.

Work places will always say that, because it's not in their best interest for coworkers to collaborate. They want to keep you divided.

 

[analog_future]

Most of the places I have worked have specifically asked that you don't. Leads to a lot of workplace drama and resentment.

They say that because they don't want underpaid workers to realize they're underpaid. It has nothing to do with preventing drama or resentment.


Yes, of course I talk to my coworkers about my wage. We should all have some type of awareness of what people who do similar work are making. It can only benefit the employee.

 

[V1LÆM]

nah because we all get paid the same. if there is any difference then it's because of their circumstances (benefits, etc) and that ain't got shit to do with me so i'm not interested.

 

[Lasha]

Not a chance. That is no one’s business but mine (and my boss I suppose).

If you look at places where this info is publicly shared ( like a government “sunshine” list) it drives up costs and breeds discontent.

People need to know their own value, not others.

Knowing how much others are paid is how one determines their market value.

 

[Mikado]

Damn. Did the Night staff at least get an overnight differential

Lol. It was a startup in the late 90's/early 2000's. We didn't get shit except free beer at 2am.

To their credit tho - they did declare bankruptcy almost immediately afterward, fired a ton of the leeches and hired back all the useful people with moderately higher salaries.

Then they went bankrupt again 9 months later.

Amusingly, their product went open source and is still around to this day. Many of you may use it as your 3D Modeling and Animation software of choice.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Knowing how much others are paid is how one determines their market value.

No, that just informs you of what others make. Not the value you bring.

I understand what you are trying to say but I just don’t agree. I know, very clearly, on the value I can bring to where I work and use that as a tool to extract as much as possible

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Lol. It was a startup in the late 90's/early 2000's. We didn't get shit except free beer at 2am.

To their credit tho - they did declare bankruptcy almost immediately afterward, fired a ton of the leeches and hired back all the useful people with moderately higher salaries.

Then they went bankrupt again 9 months later.

Amusingly, their product went open source and is still around to this day. Many of you may use it as your 3D Modeling and Animation software of choice.

You worked for Alias, huh?

 

[Mikado]

You worked for Alias, huh?

The 3D Animation Software Wars of the early 2000's made casualties of us all.

 

[lostinblue]

I don't make a point to discuss it, but what I earn is no secret. If you want to know the other person's you have to be no fuss about what you earn/how much you take home, etc. And I believe that way we, workforce have more of a chance to level things out. ie, the guy that earns less actually being able to close the distance instead of being in the dark for two years.

What everybody earns should be public, and there should be parity within a comparable job description with comparable experience.

If you earn way way more than the others and don't want people to know because that will create a problem for your companies HR is a different matter, but if that's so you're closer to management than the regular worker.

 

[Patrick S.]

They say that because they don't want underpaid workers to realize they're underpaid. It has nothing to do with preventing drama or resentment.


Yes, of course I talk to my coworkers about my wage. We should all have some type of awareness of what people who do similar work are making. It can only benefit the employee.

This. Here in Germany, until a few years ago, discussing your salary used to be unlawful, and a reason for termination. Then someone filed a lawsuit an won, and now it's allowed. But of course bosses hate this fact, and during salary negotiations they emphasize that salaries are NOT to be discussed and yadda yadda.

Same at my company. But in my opinion, if you know that you pay some people much worse than others, and don't want them to find out: FUCK YOU! You deserve that people give you the finger and go work someplace else because they find out you're lowballing them. Treat your staff fairly, have happy employees. Don't forget that, yes, you pay your employees' salaries, but the employees work to earn YOUR salary, too.

I have coworkers I trust and discuss my salary with, but they are also my friends. We started at the company at around the same time, but we have ended up in different areas of the business, and we've talked about how our salaries have evolved or not, and based on that we've all gone and talked to our boss, after finding out that one of them was getting royally fucked. And our boss knew we had talked, and he was pissed off, but we've told him that we were even more pissed off because he was lowballing us.

I do have coworkers who I don't like a whole lot, who I would never discuss my salary with, because I think I probably make like a thousand bucks more than them per month, and if I told them, everyone would be mad at everyone, and I have no reason to create an unnecessary shitstorm that might end with me getting the boot. No thanks.

 

[Ironbunny]

Quite often and its normal in my country to do so. Depending of the job I can see how it might not work on every place but in an unionized work force its a plus for the grunt.

 

[West Texas CEO]

No way.
I do not intend to cause any potential tension with my co-workers.

 

[ssringo]

No. Currently I'm the one on charge and know everyone's payrate anyways. It's the individuals business and not my place to discuss it so I don't. As for my own pay I don't discuss it because I'm happy with what I'm paid. If I wasn't I'd ask for more or find a new job.

I do on occasion talk about it with the previous supervisor. We talk about all the stuff thats changed since he left and everyone is making much more than we used to. Wasn't his fault or decision though.

 

[StueyDuck]

You really shouldn't. Not just because it's polite but it can also cause alot of issues. One thing with colleagues is you never truly know them or how they will react or act. Especially your culture at the company is one of fighting for the top spot

 

[Celcius]

No. Nothing good is going to come out of that.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

We are all getting payed by collective agreement (labor union), so no point really to talk about it. Only thing relevant is in what braket you are or going to land. Makes that topic quite chill.

 

[Laieon]

Yeah.

I'm a teacher though, so my salary is on a scale and public information anyway.

 

[T4keD0wN]

There are no disadvantages to do so unless you are a part of the leadership. If youre a part of leadership/management you should only discuss it with other people on a similar position, but keep it a secret from certain parties.
I dont want people to discuss it because it can only have negative outcomes for me and the projects i manage, conflics are a nightmare and i can never tell if the techniques and guidelines for it actually help enough.
Which means they should 100% discuss their salary for their own good, i would advise everyone i dont work with to do so. I dont even care about how much theyre paid, since thats not handled by me, only the negative outcomes on team morale, schedule and quality.
That being said 0 conflicts is not that "healthy", because it can idicate people are scared to share their opinions. Having a few smaller disagreements is the healthiest and indicates safe working enviroment.

Instead of using pay rates as a tool when discussing pay with management, I've seen co-workers turn on each other out of jealousy.

Even this is a very good outcome (for most people, definitely not for whoever handles human resources), it is a great indicator that those members are not very bright or a stable. A signal to stay away from those people if possible.

 

[6502]

It is essential if you want fair pay grades. If it is a personal contract and you want to maximise your earnings over everyone else then it is less than ideal.

For companies wanting to reward performance they should be clear what people can earn for their performance / loyalty. Otherwise you risk looking like you want to squeeze staff pay or hope a useful idiot works harder for less.

 

[AJUMP23]

I'm a manager and I do not discuss with people what I earn. I have talked to friends in the same industry that I do not work with what I earn so we can build a concept of value. But no one that I sign their time for needs to know what I earn. I also don't know what they earn.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I do with coworkers same level as me.

 

[JCK75]

Not typically, but it has been brought up before because it's publicly available information that they can look up. I think at one point someone mentioned I made more than people who had been there longer than me and my response was that it's not my fault they didn't negotiate the salary.

 

[Rayderism]

Sort of, yes. Union factory, so our pay is locked in.....and this is a contract year.

 

[Billbofet]

Nope. I've been in a unique role in my past four jobs, so there would be zero benefit to having others know what I make.
In the teams I have managed I always tried to level the pay based on role, responsibility, and seniority as I know they discussed it openly (very similar roles across the teams).

This does come up often, but my mother and her friends talk openly about their children's salaries, purchases, and basically anything financial.
I refuse to let my mom know as it would immediately make it the topic of their next discussion. It kind of drives my mom nuts, but we have fun with it.

 

[Nester99]

Nope, just builds resentment between co workers and BS for management to deal with.

 

[Liljagare]

Naturarly, it keeps the pressure on the bosses.

It's BS not to talk about it, and frankly I hate when it's "discouraged". Thankfully, it's illegal where I live to discourage salary discussions.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

The only reason it is frowned upon is for the benefit of the company, not the employees.

 

[EverydayBeast]

People are pressed to discuss their pay, working conditions etc.

 

[Salz01]

Not all employees work the same. Nor should they all be paid the same. Capitalism 101. It’s hard to explain that to an employee thats not as good as another. Especially in todays age where everybody is told they are awesome. But it’s a lie.

 

[Rival]

Not a fucking chance.

 

[NikuNashi]

No, never, and I advise you all to never discuss it.

I made a mistake once in my first week of my first job, never again. Lesson learned.

People are deluded about their own self importance, they will be jealous and resentful of people earning more even if they contribute less.

 

[Mossybrew]

Nah, its a union and the contract is public knowledge, so not much point, you know someone's position and roughly how long theyve been there you can get a close estimate.

 

[Lasha]

No, that just informs you of what others make. Not the value you bring.

I understand what you are trying to say but I just don’t agree. I know, very clearly, on the value I can bring to where I work and use that as a tool to extract as much as possible

How do you know how much is possible if you can't put a dollar price on "value"? The two are linked. There's only a few positions like sales or certain types of consulting where it's easy to directly calculate what one should be paid. Pay negotiations are an exercise in price discovery for everybody else. More information is always beneficial when negotiating.

 

[Blade2.0]

Yes. And I will till I die.

 

[Valonquar]

Working for the state means your salary is public info and you can look up everyone’s salary. This ruined my motivation to try harder. It also made me hate the people at work more than I already did.

 

[Northeastmonk]

My boss has always told me to keep it to myself. A couple of the new hires shared what they were making and it can kill the vibe. I was told to not discuss your current salary in interviews too. Not until they make you an offer.

Insurance kills the joy of switching jobs for higher pay. If the insurance sucks, the high pay doesn’t matter. Plus everyone has their own need for health insurance. I love the insurance I have now, but it sucks to see how much gets taken out.

 

[Kamina]

No
Individual experience levels and times with the company cause the figures tobe tricky to compare

 

[Embearded]

I don't but maybe i should, i don't know.

A friend who is working in a different company told me he was told that he was getting a higher raise than the rest of his group and to keep it to himself. Of course he discussed it as soon as he got out of the room and he found out everyone eas told the same and they all have the same salary.
It amazes me how people still do stuff like that. Especially to younger, educated employees without kids and mortgages who can quit at any time.

 

[nush]

I’ve worked a few jobs where I’ve been a higher earner. I don’t tell anyone but people working in accounts do like to gossip. I can always tell the exact point when one of them has said something, the mood in the office changes.

I had a boss that was smart enough to split my salary, half paid in house the other half transferred to me directly from his wife. Never had any problems there.

 

[Hazzard4life]

As a contractor for the past 10 years, working in finance, there is no way I'm talking about my salary to anyone who is permanent employee of the company. Especially doing the same role as me.
To other contractors, I'm directly working with the conversation has sometimes been geared towards day rates, especially if you're working through an agency or your own company

 

[Roufianos]

Absolutely. As someone relatively senior, I'll tell the more junior people what I'm on now and what I earned after 1 or 2 years etc.

Fuck protecting the company. They should pay people fairly to begin with.

 

[fran.fernandez]

Tried but never got an answer. Not even ranking.

In japan salary is based on ranking .

 

[H4ze]

Everyone saying no is a moron. You need to do that, corporates are not your friend, don't let yourself get screwed.

 

[ADiTAR]

I'm really surprised how many people are saying no, and also justifying it with work drama.

Yes, you should talk to co-workers about salaries. Otherwise, you have no clue if you get paid less and can bring this up as leverage to negotiate better pay. Everyone should be an adult about it, and understand that it's in the interest of the company for you not to talk about it. And that's why you should talk about it.

It's not an easy subject to bring up, but the more you know, the better.

 

[AJUMP23]

Glassdoor can give you a good range.