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[p_xavier]

I'm really fascinated about Ukrainians and their pride in their country and how they are literally fighting for their lives over it. I'm a mixed race Canadian that has no cultural background whatsoever besides the American-lite way of life. Heck I can't even speak French nor English without a strong accent. I barely see pride in this country from the residents and now the majority of many cities have a different cultural background that seem to be proud about, and that comes first. African culture for Black history month, Chinese with their lunar year etc. I kinda miss this strong bond with fellow folks. I kind feel alienated with no strong self of belonging. We can't even celebrate Canada day because of Indigenous issues.

Thus to say, if Canada goes to war, who's gonna be defending the country values besides the army? I sure don't see normal folks, (maybe the truckers?) Like I said, I don't have a cultural attachment since I don't have a culture. Anyone feels the same?

 

[Punished Miku]

Smaller countries are easier to coalesce around a group identity. And their country is only 30 years old so most of them were literally alive to found the country and have a stake in it.

But I think people in most places will still defend their country and their home. Just look at 9/11 and the kind of unifying reaction the US saw. I think you're overthinking it.

North America will be the most detached from this principle in general since they've been spared most direct attacks from a foreign nation since the revolutionary war. Pearl Harbor counts, but it's still not North America. 9/11 counts, but it's not really an attack from a nation.

You'd probably see the same thing after it gets a bit rough. But there's no doubt that a lot of people are soft today, and the Ukrainians are exceptionally brave.

 

[SiteSeer]

I'm really fascinated about Ukrainians and their pride in their country and how they are literally fighting for their lives over it. I'm a mixed race Canadian that has no cultural background whatsoever besides the American-lite way of life. Heck I can't even speak French nor English without a strong accent. I barely see pride in this country from the residents and now the majority of many cities have a different cultural background that seem to be proud about, and that comes first. African culture for Black history month, Chinese with their lunar year etc. I kinda miss this strong bond with fellow folks. I kind feel alienated with no strong self of belonging. We can't even celebrate Canada day because of Indigenous issues.

Thus to say, if Canada goes to war, who's gonna be defending the country values besides the army? I sure don't see normal folks, (maybe the truckers?) Like I said, I don't have a cultural attachment since I don't have a culture. Anyone feels the same?

just a quick glance at google and it says canada has 9 public holidays. is that not your 'culture'? if you don't celebrate them thats on you, perhaps your family just doesn't do holidays, i don't see how it signifies a lack of national culture. because some other people celebrate another holiday shouldn't lessen your enjoyment of your preferred times of rest. i don't know your personal situation but if you don't feel like you have a strong bond to your nation or other people, perhaps you ought to volunteer your time for your country or, you know, participate in 'canadian' things, i guess hockey. these things don't fall into your lap, you have to seek them out, nobody becomes part of an in-group by sitting on the sidelines. as far as how this relates to ukraine, they are a former soviet state and thus have a complex history, not the same with canada which is under the umbrella of the u.s. defense system. ukrainians don't have the luxury of that peace of mind and have to go their own way, 'pride' is what keeps them going day-to-day, its a survival mechanism.

 

[AJUMP23]

My family history in America goes back to the revolution, so I have a strong attachment to America and the ideas it sets forth.

 

[p_xavier]

just a quick glance at google and it says canada has 9 public holidays. is that not your 'culture'? if you don't celebrate them thats on you, perhaps your family just doesn't do holidays, i don't see how it signifies a lack of national culture. because some other people celebrate another holiday shouldn't lessen your enjoyment of your preferred times of rest. i don't know your personal situation but if you don't feel like you have a strong bond to your nation or other people, perhaps you ought to volunteer your time for your country or, you know, participate in 'canadian' things, i guess hockey. these things don't fall into your lap, you have to seek them out, nobody becomes part of an in-group by sitting on the sidelines. as far as how this relates to ukraine, they are a former soviet state and thus have a complex history, not the same with canada which is under the umbrella of the u.s. defense system. ukrainians don't have the luxury of that peace of mind and have to go their own way, 'pride' is what keeps them going day-to-day, its a survival mechanism.

No, holidays are not culture in my opinion. The most cultural things we have is basically poutine, which is more of a Québec thing. Québec has pretty much its own well developed norms with its own fashion, food, tv shows and other media. French Québecers thus have their own culture, a lot more than Canada but I'm not from there nor live there but I respect their laws to protect their heritage. No such thing in the rest of Canada. Beavers and Tim Hortons doesn't make a country. I guess it's more a personal thing since I don't have a cultural heritage and I feel like I miss out of something. My dad was an orphan and my mom adopted so no tradition was transmitted. The USA is pretty much a recent country and its culture influenced, and still does, the world.

 

[IDKFA]

*deleted due to being too political*

 

[SiteSeer]

No, holidays are not culture in my opinion. The most cultural things we have is basically poutine, which is more of a Québec thing. Québec has pretty much its own well developed norms with its own fashion, food, tv shows and other media. French Québecers thus have their own culture, a lot more than Canada but I'm not from there nor live there but I respect their laws to protect their heritage. No such thing in the rest of Canada. Beavers and Tim Hortons doesn't make a country. I guess it's more a personal thing since I don't have a cultural heritage and I feel like I miss out of something. My dad was an orphan and my mom adopted so no tradition was transmitted. The USA is pretty much a recent country and its culture influenced, and still does, the world.

thanksgiving and xmas are the two big ones, you're telling me you don't do either of those? then there is easter, valentines, superbowl weekend or whatever the hell canada has. the thing with 'culture' is that you get whatever you put in, don't wait around for an invitation, just go out and take it, have fun. you sound more depressed than lacking in culture, see the bottom of the page where it says 'similar threads' and the first hit is 'gaf, how do you deal with loneliness, self-doubt and lack of motivation'. lol

cheer up dude, join in.

 

[p_xavier]

Not, really no.

Can I share my real thougts without a ban? If a Mod thinks my comments draw a line then please delete them without banning me.

I don't see the point in national identity. In a Ideal world, the EU would morph into a unified federal state and there would be no UK, Germany, France etc. Just sectors of an united Europe.

I understand that this would be a hard sell at the moment, but maybe in a few years people can let go of something that was only the result of geographical fluke and strive to make the Europe one nation.

It's against human nature to be "inclusive". No nation will survive multiculturalism. We're seeing the USA being divided right now with the culture war. France against muslims etc. You need a common culture to be a stable nation.

 

[IDKFA]

It's against human nature to be "inclusive". No nation will survive multiculturalism. We're seeing the USA being divided right now with the culture war. France against muslims etc. You need a common culture to be a stable nation.

I'll just say that this topic might be braking the no politics ban. Either that or it's getting close to it.

 

[p_xavier]

thanksgiving and xmas are the two big ones, you're telling me you don't do either of those? then there is easter, valentines, superbowl weekend or whatever the hell canada has. the thing with 'culture' is that you get whatever you put in, don't wait around for an invitation, just go out and take it, have fun. you sound more depressed than lacking in culture, see the bottom of the page where it says 'similar threads' and the first hit is 'gaf, how do you deal with loneliness, self-doubt and lack of motivation'. lol

cheer up dude, join in.

No, thanksgiving was never a big thing in Canada, well from where I'm from. It's just a day off for people. Christmas is having drinks with friends for me. You might be right for that lol. Covid restriction don't help.

 

[p_xavier]

I'll just say that this topic might be braking the no politics ban. Either that or it's getting close to it.

Well you turned it political lol. It's not.

 

[Sakura]

No I do not. I am also Canadian.
My grandparents were born in the UK, my Dad's side of the family is very "We are English", so I don't feel much Canadian culture. In a lot of aspects it really is just a watered down form of American culture, unless you are from Quebec I guess.
I also don't really care though, so it doesn't bother me.

 

[Fbh]

Nope.
As the son of immigrants I sort of grew up between 2 cultures (the European one of my parents and the Latin american one of my country) and as a result I don't really have particularly strong attachments to either culture.
I'd be willing to fight for my country but it would really depend on the context of the conflict. The fact our "leaders" have been a bunch of corrupt incompetent idiots for decades doesn't help either.

 

[Mohonky]

Nope, my ancestry is first fleet convicts to Australia. So I'm neither indigenous Australian and too far removed from any European influence. I can completely understand why people in other continents would tho.

 

[SiteSeer]

It's against human nature to be "inclusive". No nation will survive multiculturalism. We're seeing the USA being divided right now with the culture war. France against muslims etc. You need a common culture to be a stable nation.

No, thanksgiving was never a big thing in Canada, well from where I'm from. It's just a day off for people. Christmas is having drinks with friends for me. You might be right for that lol. Covid restriction don't help.

on the one hand you bemoan the lack of a unifying 'culture' and on the other you barely lift a finger to perpetuate the culture that's already been established. no thanksgiving dinner, drinks-only for xmas. just bellyaching and negativity 'no this ... not that'. not trying to be rude but that's the vibe i'm getting here. i hope you seize the holi-day op.

 

[synchronicity]

I was born and raised in the US, but my roots (on my Mom's side) are Scandinavian and I lived in Sweden for a few years and speak Swedish. I really feel deep ties to that part of the world, so yes. It feels like my home even though I'm not there.

 

[Kraz]

I barely see pride in this country(Canada) from the residents and now the majority of many cities have a different cultural background that seem to be proud about, and that comes first. African culture for Black history month, Chinese with their lunar year etc.

It's strange to hear that. The diversity, which for the most part exists peacefully and works out its conflicts under law in the liberal democracy of Canada, is what inflames a sense of patriotism in many who would defend the country.

 

[nush]

All the great achievements are in the past. So, no.

 

[Azzurri]

Yea, I do.

I'm first gen American, so my family's history is back in Italy on both sides.

 

[MaestroMike]

Isn't Ukraine a mix of east and west europe as well as northern europe and some west asian as well seem kinda mixed to me.

 

[teezzy]

Any country which isn't the United States is [redacted]

 

[Scotty W]

I am also Canadian.

The British political heritage is everywhere, and noticed nowhere. We don’t insist on celebrating it.

What we do celebrate is mediocrity: Bryan Adams, Tragically Hip, Corner Gas and Q. I have always felt the hype over this stuff is just fake.

If you spend enough time in a country without a properly functioning government, you will definitely see the value of the British political tradition.

 

[Fare thee well]

For me I actually care little about culture. I see the ways in which it holds us back and keeps us in boxes. I have no love of my country as a culture. I care that we are free to express ourselves and have strong potential to make a comfortable living. My ferver to defend my hometown to my death would be more related to these properties, especially when under attack from someone who hoards power, prefers autocracy, and devalues individual human life. I care about the average man/woman and their right to a decent fucking life. Believe it or not that is enough for me to spill my blood.

but most conflict is a waste in the longterm and much energy is wasted on culture/nationalism. So i guess we have opposite perspectives.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

It's against human nature to be "inclusive". No nation will survive multiculturalism. We're seeing the USA being divided right now with the culture war. France against muslims etc. You need a common culture to be a stable nation.

Not really, and France is exactly the example of what you argue against.
The country is based not on the idea of ethnicity and race but republican ideals.
The notion of being French is linked purely to nationality.

 

[p_xavier]

Not really, and France is exactly the example of what you argue against.
The country is based not on the idea of ethnicity and race but republican ideals.
The notion of being French is linked purely to nationality.

Country yes but it doesn't work in reality. Taking another stable democracy, the UK scots had a referendum recently, plus North Irish urban warfare was a thing for decades.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

To what? Spaghetti and cappuccino? We exported them everywhere, no invasion could take those away anyway!

Joking. I wouldn’t know what to do away from my country, really. I guess I do have a cultural attachment to it. But most people here don’t. Italy was put together from patches of very different people and cultures, and if it ever really was united, it was for a very brief moment in time. Italians wouldn’t want to die for Italy; they basically never did unless someone was there telling them what to do and who to side with. In a novel about the Italian resistance war during WW2, Cesare Pavese wrote this dialogue:
”So, Professor, do you like Italy?”
”No. Not Italy. The Italians.”

To me, it’s the opposite. Love the country, its nature, its traditions, its culture. The people? Most of them would sell the country for a mortadella sandwich. They basically already did to some extent, and didn’t even realize. People joke about France’s national flag being the white flag, but the only reason they don’t say that for Italy is that Italy will just adopt the flag of whichever country is the highest bidder.
Me, I think that our poetry and art are infinitely more valuable than my life.

 

[Queso de Grande]

I have a very strong cultural attachment, not so much to my country, but to my home state of Texas. When asked I am always a Texan first, American second.

 

[AV]

Being British is a mixed bag at times, but there are plenty of British things I'm "proud" of as much as that word even applies. Our sense of humour, pints down the pub with the lads, chippie teas, the countryside, the fact that so much great music comes from our tiny island, etc.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

I was born in Poland but lived in 4 countries in total. I think mentally I'm more Dutch than Polish at this point. I don't see myself ever coming back.

Polish culture is amazing and people are as tough as in Ukraine. Just look up Warsaw Uprising of 1944 to understand that we will never surrender.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

My family history in America goes back to the revolution, so I have a strong attachment to America and the ideas it sets forth.

Hell yeah

I have quite possibly the extreme opposite of AJUMP23 's story (no previous family ties in the US, and I'm a first generation immigrant), yet as strong of an attachment to traditional American cultural values, and to the United States itself.

What's awesome is that I also have an attachment to cultural things (cuisine, music and dance, folklore, traditional values) of my original home country. And that's probably one of the most amazing things of the US, that I get this cultural ability to "have my cake and eat it too." Melting pot and all...

In the true and immortal words of the movie Team America:

"America, fuck yeah!"

 

[AJUMP23]

Hell yeah

I have quite possibly the extreme opposite of AJUMP23 's story (no previous family ties in the US, and I'm a first generation immigrant), yet as strong of an attachment to traditional American cultural values, and to the United States itself.

What's awesome is that I also have an attachment to cultural things (food, dance, folklore, traditional values) of my original home country. And that's probably one of the most amazing things of the US, that I get this cultural ability to "have my cake and eat it too." Melting pot and all...

In the satirical, but true and immortal words of the movie Team America:

"America, fuck yeah!"

Welcome....now get a job ya filthy animal.

Cyprian Collins is the name of my relative that fought in the war, but my family has direct ties to John Adams, Grover Cleveland, and Abe Lincoln. Thankfully my grandmother did all the genealogy work for us in the 70s.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

Welcome....now get a job ya filthy animal.

Nah I'd rather just hang out and get those free Biden checks, amirite?

Cyprian Collins is the name of my relative that fought in the war, but my family has direct ties to John Adams, Grover Cleveland, and Abe Lincoln. Thankfully my grandmother did all the genealogy work for us in the 70s.

Whoa that's pretty cool! Look at AJUMP23 acting all Presidential and crap

Is Grover Cleveland still the only President in US history to serve non-consecutive terms?

 

[AJUMP23]

Is Grover Cleveland still the only President in US history to serve non-consecutive terms?

Yes.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Born in Croatia, grew up in Austria. I have next to no cultural attachments and if shit hits the fan like in Ukraine I'd probably be one of the first to get out and into Switzerland. Not that I don't like Austria, I love it here, but I'm not willing to give my life for it.

 

[Modrot]

Fascinating thread.

I live in the States, I'm "American" but I was born elsewhere. Adding to that I have indigenous, European, and African ancestry.

So I'm a god damn mess.

That "Elsewhere" has its own culture and values, that to some degree are americanized (how much depends on the household).

I am very aware and appreciative of Elsewhere's culture. The same for the US'.

People forget that culture and values aren't universal in even the smallest country. Everyone does their own thing.

Just because you don't value the mainstream (and possibly corporate) idea of "culture" doesn't mean you lack one.

As for the actual question: I have appreciation for the cultures i'm steeped in but I'm not terribly attached to them. At least I think so.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

Yes.

If you have so many Presidents and war heroes in your lineage, what the hell happened to you? Why'd you turn out to be a bum?

Spoiler: Spoiler

/s, and all that...

 

[AJUMP23]

If you have so many Presidents and war heroes in your lineage, what the hell happened to you? Why'd you turn out to be a bum?

Spoiler: Spoiler

/s, and all that...

My dad's side of the family sided with the south...... :| They use to run boats up and down the Mississippi trading. Put all their money into the Confederacy, and it didn't work out for them. But my grandfather on that side was a general in the Korean War. I'm an engineer, so I don't think I'm a bum.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Mexico

Japan and Asian countries

Spain

 

[EverydayBeast]

Cultural, immigrants etc. is what made America great.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

My dad's side of the family sided with the south...... :| They use to run boats up and down the Mississippi trading. Put all their money into the Confederacy, and it didn't work out for them.

History (and anyone with common sense) to your dad's side of the family, circa 1861:

I'm an engineer, so I don't think I'm a bum.

I was kidding, dude. It was a lighthearted and friendly comeback to your "get you a job, you filthy animal" joke. (I'm an engineer, too)

 

[Bavarian_Sloth]

Till this war started, I was just happy I had the luck to to be born in a free and wealthy country (Germany), surrounded by friendly neighbouring states.

Since the war started and seeing the brave ucranian people fight and die for their freedom, I feel a strong attachment to the EU and all it`s allies, which share the same mentality.

 

[Taxexemption]

You need a stable society and communities to develop culture. The last of that has left the US, but particularly where I live.

 

[8bitpill]

Have you looked into finding out your heritage? If so, pour yourself into that. Will it feel phony at first, yes, but your culture lies there since you're making a effort to look for it.

I'm second generation Irish here in the states. I didn't care much for stating it when I was younger and I grew up with friends with wildly different backgrounds. It was cool to see all the different cultural behaviors and lifestyles that was brought on by their heritage.

I appreciated and studied more on my families Irish background in my late twenties and into my late thirties now. I'm moving towards getting dual citizenship in Ireland within the next couple of years and I'm thankful I can since I'm not that far out from my grand parents that immigrated to American.

Is there a reason this is coming up now besides what is going on with the war, or was it just a thought that popped up?

 

[p_xavier]

Have you looked into finding out your heritage? If so, pour yourself into that. Will it feel phony at first, yes, but your culture lies there since you're making a effort to look for it.

I'm second generation Irish here in the states. I didn't care much for stating it when I was younger and I grew up with friends with wildly different backgrounds. It was cool to see all the different cultural behaviors and lifestyles that was brought on by their heritage.

I appreciated and studied more on my families Irish background in my late twenties and into my late thirties now. I'm moving towards getting dual citizenship in Ireland within the next couple of years and I'm thankful I can since I'm not that far out from my grand parents that immigrated to American.

Is there a reason this is coming up now besides what is going on with the war, or was it just a thought that popped up?

I actually ordered a DNA test yesterday for that. I come from a family where discussing ancestry is taboo. Heck I only knew the full name of my grand parents in my twenties. This may sound strange but my parents had extremely miserable childhoods so it's too hard for them to open up about it.

This is a quote from yesterday's editorial in the Montreal Gazette which sums up my thought process. Nationalism is seen as a bad thing, but I don't think it is at all. It glues people together.

Out of this mess, a light shines through: the astonishing courage of the Ukrainian people. If a calamity of this magnitude was to befall our country, would our men, young and old, leave their families to fight, with Molotov cocktails, an enemy a thousand times stronger?

I would like to think so, but I’m not sure.

Internationalists who believe that nationalism is evil, that borders, cultures and languages should disappear to allow humanity to wallow in faceless homogeneity should watch the Ukrainians defend their nation, their homeland, against annihilation. They are fighting fearlessly with heart, courage and dignity.

For all of our sophisticated thinking, advanced technology and compassionate civilization, none of us are 100 per cent safe from aggression. If ever attacked, I hope we would have the good sense to learn from the Ukrainians.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

You need a stable society and communities to develop culture. The last of that has left the US, but particularly where I live.

While I sympathize with your sentiment, it's a bit... defeatist. I live in a big ultra-liberal city, and the fact that I'm politically moderate makes me a literal devil from hell, at least in the eyes of many of the people in the very city I live in.

But you know what? I don't let that stop me. I celebrate American traditions and American things. I celebrate July 4th, every single year, American flags and all. I celebrate classic American cinema, arts, and music. I celebrate the Founding Fathers. Etc etc...

And people do protest that, because politics have sneaked into practically EVERY aspect of culture. But I don't back down. If people complain to me, I patiently tell them the many reasons why I'm proud to be an American and be part of American culture. And what you'll find out by talking to people is that their convictions are not that strong, and are mostly shallow posturing for social media credit.

Standing strong in American cultural pride, even in the face of opposition, is important

 

[p_xavier]

While I sympathize with your sentiment, it's a bit... defeatist. I live in a big ultra-liberal city, and the fact that I'm politically moderate makes me a literal devil from hell, at least in the eyes of many of the people in the very city I live in.

But you know what? I don't let that stop me. I celebrate American traditions and American things. I celebrate July 4th, every single year, American flags and all. I celebrate classic American cinema, arts, and music. I celebrate the Founding Fathers. Etc etc...

And people do protest that, because politics have sneaked into practically EVERY aspect of culture. But I don't back down. If people complain to me, I patiently tell them the many reasons why I'm proud to be an American and be part of American culture. And what you'll find out by talking to people is that their convictions are not that strong, and are mostly shallow posturing for social media credit.

Standing strong in American cultural pride, even in the face of opposition, is important

I used to live 200m from the US border, so growing up I went there many times a week and it was night and day the display of American pride compared to Canadian one.

 

[8bitpill]

My wife bought me a DNA testing kit about five years ago. I knew it was pretty much going to be Northern Europe Isles (99% in my case), and it was with two dashes of less than one percent for the others which makes it negligible.

Better to not push if it was bad for your parents, unless they're willing. I guess let them know you have interest and see if down the line they open up more about it.

Nationlism has been demonized in the last couple of years due to the fact it was a ideal adopted by groups of people here in the United States case, that have racist tendencies.

I think it's OK to be proud of a country you live in or from, but using it alienate others is where the problems start.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

Nationlism has been demonized in the last couple of years due to the fact it was a ideal adopted by groups of people here in the United States case, that have racist tendencies.

Any country you go to, you'll have small pockets of nationalist groups that are a problem. It's not a problem exclusive to the United States.

And, in the case of the US, I'd say that the correlation between nationalists and racists is one potentially exaggerated by the media.

I think it's OK to be proud of a country you live in or from, but using it alienate others is where the problems start.

Of course, this is obvious, and any reasonable person would agree with this.

I'll say this, which will come as a bit of a bit of a hot take for some people, but it's my experience and it is what it is: in the political polarization of the past few years, the fact that I'm a moderate has seen me being treated infinitely worse by liberals (especially self-described progressives) than by any conservative I've ever run into. But I'll leave it at that because any further elaboration will lead to politics, and explicit political talk is (rightfully) banned in this forum.

 

[8bitpill]

Any country you go to, you'll have small pockets of nationalist groups that are a problem. It's not a problem exclusive to the United States.

And, in the case of the US, I'd say that the correlation between nationalists and racists is one potentially exaggerated by the media.

Of course, this is obvious, and any reasonable person would agree with this.

I'll say this, which will come as a bit of a bit of a hot take for some people, but it's my experience and it is what it is: in the political polarization of the past few years, the fact that I'm a moderate has seen me being treated infinitely worse by liberals (especially self-described progressives) than by any conservative I've ever run into. But I'll leave it at that because any further elaboration will lead to politics, and explicit political talk is (rightfully) banned in this forum.

I know this and why I put " United States case ". I not very knowledgeable about other countries nationalism I couldn't bring it up with out feeling lost.

Yes, obviously the media hasn't helped at all with the way it's been handling things in the past couple of decades.

I stated this as a reply to the OP, but forgot to reply to their comment before publishing it. Funny thing is, something as simple as what I wrote doesn't come by as reasonable since so many people are force fed by a social networks algorithm.

 

[lukilladog]

I´m surely not going to die to defend the made up "culture" we are indoctrinated with since young age here in México. I read about that stupid 1917 Cristero war, people were manipulated and died just to defend the status quo of the church, and failed, secularism prevailed until now.