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[64bitmodels]

TOTK, Jedi Survivor, Ragnarok, etc. Many modern sequels these days don't look like a gigantic level up from the previous game, IMO. They are sequels yes, but they reuse similar engines, similar mechanics, similar music, etc. People were making jokes about how TOTK and GOWR looked like mere DLC.

I get that this is how sequels are supposed to be but what happened to major jumps like Mario 3 to Mario World, Sonic 2 to Sonic 3, Paper Mario 1 to Paper Mario 2, or Quake 1 to Quake 2? games that felt so different that you could tell which is which. Now, a whole console generation isn't enough to make sequels even look a gen ahead.

Maybe it's just me though, I put up a poll to ensure i wasn't going fucking crazy here. There are still sequels i can think of that are very distinct like Street Fighter 4 to Street Fighter 5, RE7 to RE8, or Doom 16 to Doom Eternal.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Recently yes. There are some exceptions but the line is getting thinner. I think it was mostly due to games still being developed for old-gen, tho next-gen only games arent looking very hot either and when a cross-gen game like HFW looks ages ahead of literally all the next-gen games released so far it makes things kinda sad. We'll see how it goes in the next years.

 

[StueyDuck]

Sequels should build and iterate on the previous games. That's when they are at their best.

This waiting 8 years for pretty graphics is a waste

 

[Dr. Claus]

Having actually played TOTK and games like Elden Ring, Dark Souls 3, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Octopath Traveller II, Resident Evil 8, and more? No. They all feel like fully fledged sequels.

However, there are some games like Jedi Survivor, God of War: Ragnarok, Resident Evil 3 Remake, Forza Horizon 5, and others that do feel like glorified expansions. This usually is due to a few things, from my personal experience. These games don't add anything new, but continue what they were doing and simply bloat out the experience. FH5 and God of War are both very bad for this. Then you have games that almost feel "paired back" with a focus on more linear design like RE3Remake which is also insanely short, and JedI Survivor who has become less of a planet hopping metroidvania like the previous entry. Their scopes feel far more pulled back.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Whatever keeps dev time under a fuckin decade I’m fine with. Big games barely come out anymore.

 

[Doom85]

Not really. And I feel some serious nostalgia is at play here regarding past games, I don’t remember Sonic 2 and 3 being THAT different from one another, like some differences, sure, but not to the extent you’re saying.

Christ, we had SIX Mega Man games on the NES alone.

Also let’s not forget:

 

[64bitmodels]

I don’t remember Sonic 2 and 3 being THAT different from one another, like some differences, sure, but not to the extent you’re saying.

elemental shields, hyper form, cutscene transitions into the next act, an actual plot, and FARRRR better visuals (and music), some of the best of the decade imo.

It feels like a major jump to me not just in gameplay but in every aspect

 

[Dr. Claus]

Not really. And I feel some serious nostalgia is at play here regarding past games, I don’t remember Sonic 2 and 3 being THAT different from one another, like some differences, sure, but not to the extent you’re saying.

Christ, we had SIX Mega Man games on the NES alone.

Also let’s not forget:

You are correct. However, we have also been living in a pretty good age where many sequels feel new and evolved from previous entries. Just look at franchises like Resistance as an example where 1 plays and looks quite different from 2, which is different from 3. Or Luigi's Mansion, or Kingdom Hearts, etc. While this "Sequel that feels like an expansion" thing was common in the earlier generations, especially in the 8 and 16 bit days, it become increasingly more rare as budgets increased and development times grew longer.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Yes, but that has more to do with how long games are these days. For instance, back in the days you finished a RE during a weekend and wished for more. So RE2 not being much different didn’t really matter. However, a God of War is easily 20-30 hours long and by the time you see the credits you most likely have enough of the gameplay. Hence they need to mix things up a bit more… or one would think. Instead, the changes are minimal and the sequel is VASTLY longer. So yeah, no wonder most sequels don’t feel as special as they once did. Or for me at least.

 

[OceanGaming]

If you are making a sequel, i want you to build from the first game and improve aspects of it.

Look at Ori, Doom, GoW, etc. and tell me it is a bad thing.

 

[Danjin44]

Direct sequels will takes place is same world, so what exactly were you expecting?I honestly this complain so stupid.

 

[Doom85]

elemental shields, hyper form, cutscene transitions into the next act, an actual plot, and FARRRR better visuals (and music), some of the best of the decade imo.

It feels like a major jump to me not just in gameplay but in every aspect

I mean, a few gameplay additions really doesn’t differentiate them THAT much in my book. I’ve yet to play Ragnarok or Jedi Survivor but I highly doubt there’s barely any new powers and such.

Also, simply having a plot while the prior game didn’t isn‘t a valid comparison to these modern titles since their “first” installment had a plot from the get go.

And (quickly checks), yeah Sonic 3 looked a bit better, but it wasn’t a massive leap.

They clearly would have been able to reuse plenty of assets from the prior Sonic titles for 3.

Not saying Sonic 3 doesn’t slap, but I don’t see it as this massively different follow up. It doesn’t even go for a weird unique angle like say Majora’s Mask, which yes reused assets and has a lot of gameplay similar to OoT, but obviously went in a very different direction with its gameplay flow and such.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Whatever keeps dev time under a fuckin decade I’m fine with. Big games barely come out anymore.

Yep. Microsoft buys 18 developers then when people ask where the games they announced 4 years ago are, they are all like “we are small indie publisher plz understand”

 

[01011001]

that has always been the case, even worse the further you go back.

or can you tell me that Castlevania 1 and 3 are super different from eachother?

back in the day there were basically 2 kinds of sequels, the one that completely changes the game, or the ones that feel like level packs.

SMB2 was so bland and boring of a sequel that Nintendo America was like "fuck this pos, give us a different Mario 2", and that's how the transformation of Doki Doki Panic into Mario USA happened

 

[Phase]

No, on the contrary. They seem to mess up whatever worked in the first game more often than not.

 

[Terenty]

The only guy who gives a fuck about innovation is Kojima. Watch Death Stranding 2 be completely unlike the first part.

 

[R6Rider]

No.

 

[Damigos]

Not only sequels, gaming in general is not as good as it used to be.
It feels like now we have all the technology in the world but we lack the talent and the artistic vision.
We have all the writers but we lack a good story.
And we have all information in the world but everything is the same.

I am talking about the bland term of AAA games ofc, i recognise that every bit of innovation we have is happening in the indie scene.

 

[LakeOf9]

No, they smartly leverage their previous, successful and well received projects to put out bigger, more ambitious, and better projects in semi reasonable release windows.

 

[64bitmodels]

SMB2 was so bland and boring of a sequel

less so bland and boring and moreso bad game design

 

[kyussman]

Games are expensive to make these days.....lots of asset reuse.

 

[01011001]

less so bland and boring and moreso bad game design

both, it was a rom hack with shitty levels basically. the same game but worse in every way

 

[SeraphJan]

I think the phenomenon is best described as "Early adopter's advantage", early game have very large room of improvement with way less cost, the same cannot be said about modern game unless you change the formula entirely, it could be done, but the risk is much higher and the room is much smaller. For example GoW3 to GoW 2018 is a complete overhaul to the formula, imaging if that failed how much would it cost.

 

[64bitmodels]

Direct sequels will takes place is same world

same world doesn't mean same assets, engine, and graphics. There are quite few sequels throughout the years that expand on the original game while looking and feeling different enough from their predecessor, hell Kingdom Hearts is a fantastic example of this. You can tell each of the Kingdom Hearts games apart despite them not having that much of a jump in graphical fidelity (until KH3) because of how much different the gameplay systems, camera, cutscenes, action, etc all are

Meanwhile i have difficulty telling apart GOWR and GOW despite the major jump in visuals

 

[01011001]

same world doesn't mean same assets, engine, and graphics. There are quite few sequels throughout the years that expand on the original game while looking and feeling different enough from their predecessor, hell Kingdom Hearts is a fantastic example of this. You can tell the 2 games apart despite them not having that much of a jump in graphical fidelity because of how much different the gameplay systems, camera, cutscenes, action, etc all are

Meanwhile i have difficulty telling apart GOWR and GOW despite the major jump in visuals

yeah but at the same time you have Majoras Mask, or GTA Vice City, which you can tell just took more or less the same base created for their predecessors and made a new environment with it.

each had a handful of new features, like the mask system in Zelda and Motorcycles + Helicopters in Vice City,
but all in all, same basic gameplay on a new map basically.

then, of course there's ALL open world Spider Man games, which are almost doomed to ever only be set in Manhattan

 

[64bitmodels]

yeah but at the same time you have Majoras Mask, or GTA Vice City, which you can tell just took more or less the same base created for their predecessors and made a new environment with it.

true but that is enough for the games to look distinct. GTA Vice City's bright miami colors and tropical setting help it stand apart from GTA3's drab, sorry liberty city.

This is also not to mention that Vice City WAS an expansion, an expansion you had to pay full price for, sure, but it was never marketed as a true sequel to GTA3. This would later be proven true when GTA4 would come out in 2008 with the actual title of GTA4. These days games that would be considered expansions like Vice City are being propped up as true, full sequels

Same for Majora's mask, if anything Majora's mask is very different considering the amount of time they had to make it. The art style is a radical departure from what Zelda usually does, the plot is darker with the whole 3 day cycle and people coming to the realization they will die in 3 days, the 3 day cycle in of itself warranting a level of scheduling and planning no Zelda before or since has had. Even if it is similar to OOT in engine and base it's very distinct and that makes it one of the most unique titles in the franchise.

Meanwhile Jedi Survivor has the exact same artstyle as Jedi Fallen Order...

 

[01011001]

true but that is enough for the games to look distinct. GTA Vice City's bright miami colors and tropical setting help it stand apart from GTA3's drab, sorry liberty city.

This is also not to mention that Vice City WAS an expansion, an expansion you had to pay full price for, sure, but it was never marketed as a true sequel to GTA3. This would later be proven true when GTA4 would come out in 2008 with the actual title of GTA4. These days games that would be considered expansions like Vice City are being propped up as true, full sequels

Same for Majora's mask, if anything Majora's mask is very different considering the amount of time they had to make it. The art style is a radical departure from what Zelda usually does, the plot is darker with the whole 3 day cycle and people coming to the realization they will die in 3 days, the 3 day cycle in of itself warranting a level of scheduling and planning no Zelda before or since has had. Even if it is similar to OOT in engine and base it's very distinct and that makes it one of the most unique titles in the franchise.

Meanwhile Jedi Survivor has the exact same artstyle as Jedi Fallen Order...

I think more realistic graphics are also to blame for this in some games.
you can't have a radical art style change if your game goes for realism.
and if you're then a star wars game on top of that you're basically stuck.

Jedi Knight 2 and 3 also look almost identical, and the only big gameplay difference is new saber stances, similar to Jedi Survivor.

 

[MirageMew2]

The Jedi series has been reusing assets from Battlefront 2 I believe so that shouldn’t really shock anyone. The world and gameplay differences in FO and Survivor however is, imo, vastly improved. Survivor absolutely feels a like a sequel.

 

[Mozzarella]

No? Just because Blood and Wine was massive doesnt mean every sequel should be called a DLC.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Modern sequels? Have you never played any sequels in your life before now?

Not only sequels, gaming in general is not as good as it used to be.
It feels like now we have all the technology in the world but we lack the talent and the artistic vision.
We have all the writers but we lack a good story.
And we have all information in the world but everything is the same.

I am talking about the bland term of AAA games ofc, i recognise that every bit of innovation we have is happening in the indie scene.

And talk like this is just nostalgic nonsense. Sorry for sounding aggressive but there wasn't a nicer way to say it.

Gaming, its systems, worlds created, stories, music, presentation..... has never been better than it is now. Something about people today just makes them have this tendency to either be unappreciative or piss on everything for God knows whatever reason. And if you actually take a step back and look at what we are getting, and how things are growing and evolving, it's easy to see this for yourself too.

Gamers talk today like they expect every game coming out to reinvent the wheel, but even if you go as far back as the last 30 years... it has never been the case with games. I mean, the `story` of the OG Ninja Gaiden` was a 30-second slideshow of 5 pictures with some text. The story of the first 8 Mario games was, the princess, has been kidnapped. Artistic vision? Have people just gotten so jaded or simply fail to see just how fucking good games actually look now, how expansive the worlds created look...etc.

 

[xVodevil]

Is that really surprising at a time when new IP's are rare AF? Barely any studio dares to come up with radical sequels, you could argue that the petty DLC scene messed things up big time!
And no I don't mind playing the same reskinned game with a new plot if the mehcanics are solid. BUT I could go back as far as Mass Effect 2 to come up with a sequel that really improved upon the original big time mechanics wise as well Surely there are some others titles, but simply this is the first that pops up for me meaning at least this one clearly left it's mark. (Besides Resident Evil of course, everyone should study their approach these last few years)

 

[Woggleman]

It's damned if you do and damned if you don't thing. Be too similar and people call it glorified DLC but stray too far and people complain that it abandoned the core fan base.

 

[Drizzlehell]

TOTK, Jedi Survivor, Ragnarok, etc. Many modern sequels these days don't look like a gigantic level up from the previous game, IMO.

All of these expanded upon their predecessors in a huge way. It may seem like they're very similar because the core gameplay remained similar but if you put them side by side it's instantly noticeable how much the sequel had expanded on those original designs. I don't see a point in trying to reinvent the wheel every time if the originals already laid a solid foundation to build upon, and sequels are being produced as a direct continuation without any lengthy hiatus between each installment.

If story-wise one game is supposed to directly follow the previous one, then changing things too drastically would prevent them from feeling like a part of the same franchise with a single coherent vision. As much as I enjoyed franchises such as The Witcher or Dragon Age, each of those games are so vastly different from each other it's like there's no coherent vision between them and it does feel a bit jarring when you play them one after another. So in that regard I prefer those sequels that share some actual similarities to their predecessors but also build upon them in a meaningful way.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I think, despite the quality of most of these titles, the endless droves of Remakes is probably more harmful than sequels.

Remakes can do all the things a good sequel does - look, sound and perform better than previous entries and evolve earlier introduced gameplay mechanics, but the question to me is...why not make a new experience? Seems like a compromise being made on some level to counterbalance the increased needs regarding time and budget in other areas, and the waves of inclusivity hires making the field into a wasteland of talent.

But eh

 

[Sakura]

Sequels have always been like this. What expansion packs had the amount of content something like TOTK has? No idea what you're talking about OP.

 

[fatmarco]

This isn't a recent thing as it's always been pretty common even for big titles, it's just we've had a run of a few major titles recently like the ones you cited that many obviously felt might have been more visually ambitious or more substantially different.

The faux sequel is more common than not historically though, outside of periods where there was a) a transition from 2d to 3d engines, and b) substantial changes within 3d engines.

(Also I'd argue RE8 isn't that different to RE7, it's more that what RE7 ends up being, RE8 starts with that. Furthermore I'd argue Jedi Survivor is a bigger jump from the original game than RE8 was from 7)

 

[kikkis]

Endless innovation is impossible and unwanted in sequels. If you want to make drastic change make new ip. Sequels are about refinement.