Do you think Widescreen will become the standard, and 4:3 the option next generation?

Not as long as RCA cables are the standard input method (and as long as RF cords are still made).
 
Since I've already spent $2000+ on my widescreen TV, I'd say I certainly hope every game has a 16:9 option. But there's no way 4:3 will go away.
 
dog$ said:
Not as long as RCA cables are the standard input method (and as long as RF cords are still made).
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What does RCA cables have to do with widescreen? you're thinking progressive scan
 
No I'm thinking of the standard red-white-yellow cords that have been part of every videogame system since the late 80's.
 
dog$ said:
No I'm thinking of the standard red-white-yellow cords that have been part of every videogame system since the late 80's.
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I know what you're saying. What does standard RCA cables have to do with widescreen?
 
The fact that those are the default cords which are meant to be used with the default TV setup; meaning, all of the old 4:3 TVs that are still in use only have that as their best input (not even S-Video) so there's really no point in putting everything in 16:9 if people are using those old cords.

At least that's the tone I hear all the time... sure you can hook up a PS2 to a HDTV using an RF and stuff, but that sorta defeats the purpose, right?

Same deal here. As long as there's no impetus to change the default method of signal input, there'll be no real impetus to change the default display method either.
 
I think he was making the point that console manufacturers cater for the lowest common denominator (composite video), therefore its likely they'll go 4:3 as standard?

I'd hope they do what Xbox does. Have a console option, then the game picks it up when it boots up and selects the correct game mode accordingly.

HooDoo - a 4:3 front projector? Wow. If I was spending big money, I'd go 16:9 these days for sure.
 
I actually don't like the way widescreen is handled on the Xbox. Since there's no option in the game's menu to turn on widescreen, I can never know whether the game supports it or not, and even if I know it does, I can't tell whether it wqas turned on correctly or not.

And does displaying in widescreen add extra strain on the engine? Because if not, then it's just devs being lazy.
 
Well mrklaw, my front projector is a 16:9 projector, I sure love 16:9 for games that support it but 4:3 is still the best option for the moment when I look at my games collection. And I can play it in full size.
Europe doesn't have 4:3 TV sets anymore, not as far as big screens are concerned.
 
No way in hell is that going to happen, sorry.

Way too few people have widescreen TV's in their house for that. It'd be nice if 16:9 was a more common option, though.
 
I can use widescreen on my tv with RCA cables... just not progressive scan.

I agree with having both screen formats as being a standard in games though.

As for Xbox and it's universal 16:9/480p setting, I'd rather have it, than going into every options menu in a game and then setting it for widescreen/480p ala PS2.
 
Maybe you should have the setting on the console, and then any games which don't support 16:9 are displayed in a pillar box?

Or just make 16:9 compatibility a requirement in your publishing checklist. It'd be easy enough to do for the next gen.

HooDoo, I was basing my comments on your original post, which sure sounded like you had a 4:3 projector...Anyway, good for you - have you watched star wars on it yet :)
 
Well, I'm actually using a 4:3 HDTV set (which, from what I've seen, is not common). I chose that screen ratio simply because most games are 4:3. However, I seriously prefer the look of 16:9 on a 4:3 set with black bars on the top and bottom to black/gray bars on the left and right when using a 16:9 set with a 4:3 image (non-stretched). I was tempted to buy a 16:9 set, but it just isn't worth it yet. I use the almost exclusively for gaming, so it isn't as if other factors were a part of the choice.

I do hope that nextgen console offer higher resolution support by default, though. 720p/1080i support in all games would rock hard. Every game should have 480i, 480p, and 1080i support as well as 4:3 and 16:9 support.
 
Here's what I think: 4:3 will still be standard but practically every game (particularly the blockbusters) will have a widescreen option.

Having said that, I'm sure there will be plenty of games that don't support 16:9 next-generation, unless Sony and Microsoft demand that all developers give the option.

Technology itself moves fast, but consumers take a while to catch on to it. In fact, most consumers, I think, couldn't care less if they play with standard RCA cables or 480p-enabled component cables. After all, you know stores still sell the RF-signal adapters even for current consoles because, apparently, there's still a demand for them. In other words, not only has widescreen not caught on yet, but one of the oldest television-connection types is still widely in use!
 
After all, you know stores still sell the RF-signal adapters even for current consoles because, apparently, there's still a demand for them.
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Not only is there a demand, but in many cases, the demand for RF adapters seems higher than component cables.
 
I wonder if any of the consoles will support 1080p
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I'd expect so if they support 1080i. Its almost as easy to do p as i for a computer. you have the same screen buffer, so its all down to the output
 
What about the DVI input on HDTV sets? Will next-gen consoles have cables for those? And how are they better than component?
 
Miburou said:
What about the DVI input on HDTV sets? Will next-gen consoles have cables for those? And how are they better than component?
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Nintendo has rather strangely said straight-out that Revolution will have DVI-out. Don't know why they said this, but they did!
 
mrklaw said:
I'd expect so if they support 1080i. Its almost as easy to do p as i for a computer. you have the same screen buffer, so its all down to the output
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Yeah. The only problem with 1080p is that it's 30fps only. :/

Miburou: DVI is a digital signal, component tends to be an analog one. The farther the signal can go without digital->analog conversion, the better, so DVI is a superior output type.
 
The only problem with 1080p is that it's 30fps only.
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Whoa whoa whoa, is that true? That's terrible, if so. I'd rather just stick to 1080i. Framerate is much more important than screen resolution.
 
dark10x said:
Whoa whoa whoa, is that true? That's terrible, if so. I'd rather just stick to 1080i. Framerate is much more important than screen resolution.
Click to expand...

1080p/60 is doable it's just that digital camera tech which is widely available at the moment can’t capture at 1080/60p. But, it should be more widely available in the future.

(Note: This really does not apply to Videogames since most of the in-game stuff is done in real time, so if the next gen consoles have the raw power they should be able to output a 1080p/60 signal.)

The next meaningful advance in HD technology for HD3D applications is a 1080p system with 60 frames per second capability (1080p/60 or 60p). The 1080p/60 format will offer more than twice the spatial resolution as the 720p/60 format, while benefiting from the same high temporal resolution. Given a screen size of equal area, the 1080p/60 format will result in a visibly sharper, more detailed screen image, with more vibrant color and greater contrast. The most immediate industry demand for 1080p/60 fps capability is to allow slow-motion image capture for 1080p/24 fps production. 1080p/60 camera technology may still be a year or more away from commercial introduction. HD3D MOVIEMAKERS LTD. intends to employ the 1080p/60 format as soon as possible for HD3D MOVIE production.

Source: http://www.hd3dmovies.com/H1080p.html
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Also, 1080i is broadcast at 60 fields (half frames) per second. Your eyes and brain blends the two fields into 30 frames per second.

720p/60 (IMO.) will still be the best option for most games since it won’t take huge amounts of processing power and is widely supported by HDTVs.
 
Hari said:
1080p/60 is doable it's just that digital camera tech which is widely available at the moment can’t capture at 1080/60p. But, it should be more widely available in the future.
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There's just one problem: 1080p/60 is not in the HDTV spec. Any 60fps format would have to be created and implemented with future HDTVs, and would suffer as being a non-approved spec.
 
Maybe HDMI will be more common than DVI in the future, looks more consumer friendly (just one small plug for both digital video and sound). Newer TVs out now are starting to sport the HDMI input than DVI nowadays.

You can also use a DVI to HDMI input converter (minus sound) if you have a DVI source (video game console, HD box, PC, etc.) and plug in sound (digital optical or analog RCA's) separately.
 
Crazymoogle said:
There's just one problem: 1080p/60 is not in the HDTV spec. Any 60fps format would have to be created and implemented with future HDTVs, and would suffer as being a non-approved spec.
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Yes, I know this. I never mentioned 1080p/60 being a HD spec at this point in time.

That is also why I think 720p/60 is still the best option as far as HD gaming next gen.
 
Games and game systems have to support the lowest common denominator or else alienate a large percentage of consumers.

4:3 has to remain the standard with 16:9 as an extra for the higher end consumers. I think 16:9 should become a standard option, but for the foreseeable future, it should remain only that. An option.
 
Nope. It's all about catering to the larger demographic. Don't expect to see RCA cables go bye bye, either. It's also a matter of them being cheaper than higher end connections. :P
 
With the faster processors, more memory, etc... I hope that 1080I/720P support will be as widespread as 480P support is now on the Xbox. I do think games will still primarily be designed with the majority of TVs in mind which is 4.3.
 
shuri said:
Yet dvds sell more than videogames and 80% are widescreen only.
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uh.. no

see the fact that the movies always come out in 2 versions, a ws and a fs one

and the fs one sells better
 
Fularu said:
uh.. no

see the fact that the movies always come out in 2 versions, a ws and a fs one

and the fs one sells better
Click to expand...

Actually... no.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2101354/fr/rss/

"It's very rare for a full-screen disc to outsell a widescreen disc," says Jessica Wolf, who tracks sales for the industry bible Video Store. "Very rare. Maybe for a children's title, and even then, it almost never happens anymore." Movies are America's most populist art form, and the battle over widescreen pitted film geeks against the masses.
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Still, I'm all for having the option for having full screen OR widescreen. But I (as many others) will always prefer widescreen. Especially now that I have a new 16:9 TV.
 
1008p on consoles could easily output at 60Hz. Thats most likely the display rate of the devices you are watching it on anyway.

1080p/24 is a HD spec because thats what movies would be shot on. Just like movie DVDs are 24fps.

If you have a good PC DVD player, you can recreate exactly that 24fps on a normal DVD. On a progressive standard DVD player, it does the same, but displays it at 60Hz.

I'd fully expect BluRay to store its movies in the same way, so you can watch them 1080i on an interlaced display, and when the technology allows, you can recreate the original 1080p movie frames and display them completely.
 
The only reason why widescreen isn't more prevalent is because it can affect framerate. The next gen should be powerful enough to do widescreen running backwards, as well as progressive scan 720p/1080i, as a standard. It's easy enough to support both widescreen and 4:3. On the other hand if it's not mandated by first party then you won't see 100% support for the feature. I think it's a must feature, who cares about the folks dragging their feet.
 
Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony have a helluva job deciding on TV specs to support next-gen. The European and US TV markets have completely diverged. At least bog-standard PAL and NTSC signals were used on 4:3 sets, happened to be interlaced and the resolutions didn't differ by a huge margin.

Western Europe: Widescreen now standard on 21"+ sets, virtually no HDTV ( 50,000 sets at the end of 2003) and no governmental push to introduce higher resolutions or progressive scan (an estimate of only 4.5m HDTVs by end of 2008).

USA: HDTV pushed like crazy yet widescreen is still an afterthought. You have the ridiculous notion that a cut to pieces 4:3 DVD is somehow "fullscreen". A huge selling point of DVD early on was that you could get the letterbox, pan & scan and widescreen version on a single disk, what happened?!
 
cja:

> Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony have a helluva job deciding on TV specs to support
> next-gen. The European and US TV markets have completely diverged.

It's not that bad. ATSC and DVB support the same resolutions and refresh rates. A scaler solves the issue of actual tv sets being differently specced. The real problem is RAM as always. 1920x1080 takes up quite a lot of space.
 
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