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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time

P

paradox121

Member
Yabberwocky said:
The newest episode made me realize you could just have Capaldi's Doctor and Bill stuck in a plain room for an entire episode, but I'd still really enjoy it due to how well they play off each other. I wasn't expecting to love Bill so much, her energy is great, and Mackie's line delivery is really natural with some great timing. The Twelfth Doctor was already one of my favorite incarnations of the good Doc, but I think Bill is now easily one of my favorite companions. It feels very bittersweet we'll only have a season of them together, as I'm really enjoying their dynamic. I found the Nardole/Doctor banter surprisingly amusing this episode, too.

Funniest line of the episode, Capaldi's delivery was amazing: "I met an emperor made of algae once. He fancied me."
Click to expand...

You just know that Big Finish is salivating over the idea of a (so far) extremely popular companion who only gets limited time on screen. And Mackie would have a fantastic voice for audio. I love how her tone changes when she's sarcastic.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Decided to show my kids Who, and they liked both espiodes (but had a zillion questions). So tonight we decided to show them Rose (and then proceed with a curated run through the whole of New Who). Should be fun!

They love it.
 
B

bleaker

Member
Haven't watched the latest episode, won't get to it until this weekend, but The Pilot was pretty good. Bill is great, and I like Nardole as as a companion as well.

This series has big shoes to fill, last season (which I finally binged last night) might be the best of the revival.
 
A

Axiom

Member
I never liked Clara much outside of Asylum, but I didn't think I actively disliked her. However I'd largely been cold on Smith's overall run until I just caught up on a few highlights from earlier in his run and saw all the good bits from series 5 and 6 and you know, maybe it's just Clara.

I know I liked her a ton more with Capaldi, but I already love Bill. The chemistry is insane.

Maybe Clara is Smith's Bonnie Langford and Amy is his Ace.

paradox121 said:
You just know that Big Finish is salivating over the idea of a (so far) extremely popular companion who only gets limited time on screen. And Mackie would have a fantastic voice for audio. I love how her tone changes when she's sarcastic.
Click to expand...
If all the episodes keep following on from another they're going to have an issue with that, but I'm assuming that'll stop.

and if they don't, I look forward to whatever bullshit they come up with.
 
T

tomtom94

Member
Axiom said:
I never liked Clara much outside of Asylum, but I didn't think I actively disliked her. However I'd largely been cold on Smith's overall run until I just caught up on a few highlights from earlier in his run and saw all the good bits from series 5 and 6 and you know, maybe it's just Clara.

I know I liked her a ton more with Capaldi, but I already love Bill. The chemistry is insane.

Maybe Clara is Smith's Bonnie Langford and Amy is his Ace.
Click to expand...
Clara didn't really work with Smith because actual Clara (distinguished here from Victorian Clara) gets no character development outside of Smith staring at her once an episode and mentioning how impossible she is, though that may be partly because they only got 8 episodes for... screwy internal BBC reasons.
 
H

hamchan

Member
Clara is just a nothing, boring character for 3 series and it sucks that she took up 2/3rds of Capaldi's time as the Doctor.
 
T

thefil

Member
+1 to Smile feeling like a Hartnell story. I consciously thought that while watching. The two of them wander the area and mostly just postulate, with the actual threat boiling beneath the surface for most of the episode.

Also like the idea that the Doctor is supposed to be guarding some vault on Earth. I didn't see the Xmas special, so maybe it's covered there and it's not a mystery? Regardless, being tethered is not exactly original but it's a nice change of pace.

Gonna miss Capaldi's magician-professor aesthetic.
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
Just watched both episodes. Whilst I hear some of the criticism, goddamn I had probably the best time watching them I've had in years of Who (outside Heaven Sent)

I didn't look at the time once and thought the rapport they established was quick but equally thought it had plenty of time to breathe.

Sincerely vested now in the rest of the series, and will watch on broadcast whereas my interest in Who has waned a little to 'do catch ups eventually on iplayer'

Thought Pearl did an excellent job in the time allowed.
 
N

Not

Banned
So how did they solve the problem of killer robots not knowing what sadness is for some reason (despite having teary-eyed emojis built in) by offering to pay them a habitation fee in quid?
 
S

Santiako

Member
Not said:
So how did they solve the problem of killer robots not knowing what sadness is for some reason (despite having teary-eyed emojis built in) by offering to pay them a habitation fee in quid?
Click to expand...

They were no longer bound to their primary programming of keeping people happy.
 
M

mclem

Member
Going round Twitter, a cautionary tale about why it's a bad idea to use algorithms to select images to accompany news stories.

Here
 
P

Platy

Member
thefil said:
Also like the idea that the Doctor is supposed to be guarding some vault on Earth. I didn't see the Xmas special, so maybe it's covered there and it's not a mystery? Regardless, being tethered is not exactly original but it's a nice change of pace.
Click to expand...

Not on tthe Xmas Special.
 
U

UpDownLeftRight

Banned
I'm really surprised everyone disliked Clara so much. I thought she was the best companion he's had, especially how dependant the Doctor actually was on her at times. One of my biggest complaints with companions is them usually just being there for the sake of it and not really bringing anything to the table outside of their character. I guess not being important to the plot.

I kinda had the feeling Clara was important to it tbh. Hated how it ended for her as well. I DO like Bill, but she just feels like another tag along again.

That said though my preferences in the show usually don't line up with others. I'm not fond of Capaldi as the Doctor for instance and my fav episodes are usually the inexplicable cosmic horror rather than the usual picks.
 
B

Boem

Member
UpDownLeftRight said:
I'm really surprised everyone disliked Clara so much. I thought she was the best companion he's had, especially how dependant the Doctor actually was on her at times. One of my biggest complaints with companions is them usually just being there for the sake of it and not really bringing anything to the table outside of their character. I guess not being important to the plot.

I kinda had the feeling Clara was important to it tbh. Hated how it ended for her as well. I DO like Bill, but she just feels like another tag along again.

That said though my preferences in the show usually don't line up with others. I'm not fond of Capaldi as the Doctor for instance and my fav episodes are usually the inexplicable cosmic horror rather than the usual picks.
Click to expand...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Season 8 Clara was the best modern companion, had the best modern companion arc, and Danny was an amazing character that made that entire arc work.
 
G

GulAtiCa

Member
I loved Clara, but hatted Danny. S8 is among the worst for me. S9 was god damn amazing. Currently getting my fiance caught up. on the show, and skipped half of S8. Mainly the damn Danny stuff. I only found him interesting after he died.
 
B

Boem

Member
acheron_xl said:
Bill to me feels more like an actual human in 2 episodes than Clara managed in 2 1/2 seasons.
Click to expand...

People often mention that in regards to Clara, but again I point to season 8. They did a lot of good work humanizing her a bit more - putting her in a young adult relationship, her struggle between her wanting her mundane, adult life and the childish fantasy life with the Doctor, balancing that, her lying to and keeping information from Danny. Those slower paced episodes with longer scenes that were just dialogue really helped her there. There's a lot more complexity and humanity to her character than people give her credit for (I'm referring to her as a person here, not the scifiplot thingies of her being the Impossible Girl and all that).

All of that was great human drama. I sometimes feel like people never really could give her another chance after her half season with Smith, which came after the super popular Smith/Amy/Rory trio, and she never quite gelled with Smith as much as with Capaldi (and, of course, the problem of treating her as a mystery first and a character second, which puts some distance towards the audience, although that was all gone by Capaldi's first season).

Clara is near the top of all time best companions for me.
 
The Elite

The Elite

BOSS
acheron_xl said:
Bill to me feels more like an actual human in 2 episodes than Clara managed in 2 1/2 seasons.
Click to expand...

Clara was presented a cipher from the start and then transformed into "The Impossible Girl". She was never really given an opportunity to be an actual human. For the purposes of story telling she certainly wasn't average beyond her first appearance as the current time Clara. After that, it quickly became about her ties to the Doctors throughout history.

Bill is refreshing after all that baggage, and I loved Clara.
 
F

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
Season 8 Clara was alright and they did work in making her better, but Clara with 11 was barely a character and as much as I kept an open mind it pretty much tainted her tenure as a companion. I still think it has to do with them scrapping the plans of using Victorian Clara and having that era be a hub for the Doctor during the season, then not having time to come up with decent material for the modern take. Modern Clara doesn't have friends or hobbies, her family history is inconsistent, she changes jobs all of a sudden, etc. She's never affected by anything. Side note, but there's an egregious scene in The Bells of Saint John where she doesn't know how Wi-Fi works. wtf? Feels like a leftover of a Clara from a different era.

Like acheron_xl said, in two episodes Bill had more character, background and a relatable setting than Clara ever did. You can totally get a feel of Bill's hangups, problems and aspirations from dialogue and acting cues.
 
U

UpDownLeftRight

Banned
Boem said:
People often mention that in regards to Clara, but again I point to season 8. They did a lot of good work humanizing her a bit more - putting her in a young adult relationship, her struggle between her wanting her mundane, adult life and the childish fantasy life with the Doctor, balancing that, her lying to and keeping information from Danny. Those slower paced episodes with longer scenes that were just dialogue really helped her there. There's a lot more complexity and humanity to her character than people give her credit for (I'm referring to her as a person here, not the scifiplot thingies of her being the Impossible Girl and all that).

All of that was great human drama. I sometimes feel like people never really could give her another chance after her half season with Smith, which came after the super popular Smith/Amy/Rory trio, and she never quite gelled with Smith as much as with Capaldi (and, of course, the problem of treating her as a mystery first and a character second, which puts some distance towards the audience, although that was all gone by Capaldi's first season).

Clara is near the top of all time best companions for me.
Click to expand...

This perhaps reinforces that I just tend to have the unpopular opinion often then. Me and my GF are currently marathoning the lot and we've both debated skipping the Amy/Rory season. Never realized it was popular tbh but we disliked it so much we stopped watching for the longest time. Eventually decided to catch up and ended up liking Matt Smith when they left.

We should probably give it another shot though since the Tennant episodes were always our favourites but rewatching them revealed that a number now bore me. Annoyingly one of my favs, the library, actually lost a lot of its power due to the Smith episodes.

Also reminded me that I'll never forgive them for not picking up on the Doctors daughter. That had to be planned as a spin off surely going by the ending.
 
A

acheron_xl

Member
Boem said:
People often mention that in regards to Clara, but again I point to season 8. They did a lot of good work humanizing her a bit more - putting her in a young adult relationship, her struggle between her wanting her mundane, adult life and the childish fantasy life with the Doctor, balancing that, her lying to and keeping information from Danny. Those slower paced episodes with longer scenes that were just dialogue really helped her there. There's a lot more complexity and humanity to her character than people give her credit for (I'm referring to her as a person here, not the scifiplot thingies of her being the Impossible Girl and all that).

All of that was great human drama. I sometimes feel like people never really could give her another chance after her half season with Smith, which came after the super popular Smith/Amy/Rory trio, and she never quite gelled with Smith as much as with Capaldi (and, of course, the problem of treating her as a mystery first and a character second, which puts some distance towards the audience, although that was all gone by Capaldi's first season).

Clara is near the top of all time best companions for me.
Click to expand...

S8 Clara is better, but she'll always be on the other side of the uncanny character valley for me. She's just seems a little too pretty, and a little too quippy, and a little too fast-on-her-feet to read as plausible. JLC was really good at emoting when the script called for it, but it rarely felt properly earned to me.
 
B

Boem

Member
UpDownLeftRight said:
This perhaps reinforces that I just tend to have the unpopular opinion often then. Me and my GF are currently marathoning the lot and we've both debated skipping the Amy/Rory season. Never realized it was popular tbh but we disliked it so much we stopped watching for the longest time. Eventually decided to catch up and ended up liking Matt Smith when they left.

We should probably give it another shot though since the Tennant episodes were always our favourites but rewatching them revealed that a number now bore me. Annoyingly one of my favs, the library, actually lost a lot of its power due to the Smith episodes.

Also reminded me that I'll never forgive them for not picking up on the Doctors daughter. That had to be planned as a spin off surely going by the ending.
Click to expand...

There's never really such a thing as a wrong opinion when it comes to favorite era's of Doctor Who. Don't let people tell you otherwise (no matter how much I can complain about Russel T Davies' era on here sometimes, but I'm trying to quit that - this show is more fun with a bit of positivity).

Every Doctor, every writer brings such a different focus and vibe with him that different things work for different people.
 
U

UpDownLeftRight

Banned
Boem said:
There's never really such a thing as a wrong opinion when it comes to favorite era's of Doctor Who. Don't let people tell you otherwise (no matter how much I can complain about Russel T Davies' era on here sometimes, but I'm trying to quit that - this show is more fun with a bit of positivity).

Every Doctor, every writer brings such a different focus and vibe with him that different things work for different people.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. It's probably one of my favourite things about the show too since the dynamic of just about everything is eventually subject to change. Amusingly, it swings about a lot too I find even with the same staff. I admit Davies was my fav writer, but he also wrote what I'd consider the worst episode. I typically dislike Moffat, but he wrote one of my favourite episodes too.

As a result it's rare we get a whole season I can't find something to like in there.
 
T

tomtom94

Member
S7 Clara is very much a cipher (not helped by the fact Coleman was excellent as Oswin/Victorian Clara). While I haven't seen her first two episodes in a while my enduring memory is that Missy gets more character development than she does.

I think part of the reason some people hate S8 Clara is she and Danny take up so much of the season that Capaldi feels like a side character (though I guess that was Moffat's intention). It's hard to not start rooting for her when all of the writers decide that the best way to portray Twelve as grufff is to just have him randomly insult Clara; it's also not her fault that the finale keeps using fake-outs which annoy the audience

Man, my estimation for series 8 has gone way down recently.

I'd need to rewatch series 9 before I develop any opinions on that one.
 
S

Solid Sora

Member
It's funny how divisive Who's fandom is. I thought that S9 was terrible, down there with S7 as my least favorite in NuWho (and the only seasons that I actively dislike).

S8 on the other hand was great, and I agree that S8 Clara is one of the best, most well-realized companions in the whole series. It's like Moffat toke the criticism about how non-human she felt in S7 to the heart, and gave his all into turning her in the most fleshed-out, three dimensional character he ever wrote for S8. I feel that her arc should've ended there, and that her return for S9 felt unnecessary and weakened the character.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
ummmm

https://article.wn.com/view/2017/04/22/Second_Doctor_Charged_With_Breaking_Federal_Genital_Mutilati/

OWy31CQ.jpg



edit: and beaten...
 
B

Blader

Member
In spite of how underwritten Clara was in S7, I always liked her from beginning to end. It helps that Jenna Coleman is one of the 3 or so best actors to play a regular companion in New Who, too.


the other two being Tate and Darvill.
 
G

Goldrush

Member
Clara isn't a perfect character. I'll admit that her entire background is an inconsistent mess. For example, the show never pinpoint what she does or does not know. However, I absolutely love her because of how NOT human she is. Never was a big fan of the grounded, POV character in Doctor Who. Always felt it was a tonal whiplash whenever the show try to stuff those moments between the scifi adventures. With Clara, everything with Danny when they tried to make her human failed completely. I remembered making posts since her first series regarding how much I love her episodes because it just seems like two Doctors having adventures. I was absolutely hyped when they actually started acknowledging it and then floored when the show made it front and center for the ending.
 
H

HigXx

Member
Rewatching Series 9 right now and I'm still in love with Under The Lake/Before The Flood. The whole bootstrap paradox is great and its really fun having the 2nd part occur in two periods but concurrently
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
It might be worth keeping an eye on the L+28 figures that BARB record nowadays. Who saw reasonable increases after 4 weeks at the end of 2015, and the trend's only accelerated since then- that's the rise of binge-watching at work.
 
M

mclem

Member
Exterminieren said:
It might be worth keeping an eye on the L+28 figures that BARB record nowadays. Who saw reasonable increases after 4 weeks at the end of 2015, and the trend's only accelerated since then- that's the rise of binge-watching at work.
Click to expand...

I was looking at the +28s for Line of Duty - the current *huge* BBC drama hit - and the numbers are spectacular. The first episode got 5.03m, the +7 was 7.40m and the +28 comes to 9.21m.

Obviously expect Who's numbers to be much smaller overall - LoD is a breakout success - but that should indicate the sort of rise that's possible across a month.
 
Q

Quick Mustard

Member
Kevin said:
The guitar scenes are some of my favorite Peter Capaldi scenes.
Click to expand...

And thats why in my eyes I dont like them.
For some reason, I cant shake that its just Peter Capaldi there playing it and not The Doctor.

I get why people do like them, but to me its just PC playing, not The Doctor.
 
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