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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time

A

APZonerunner

Member
LordRaptor said:
It seemed to me that that was what he was explicitly saying. I'll have to rewatch that bit I guess.
ARAIR, they do remember what happened, but only 'the oldest' one does when they meet and its all over.
e:
So Matt Smith remembers the 50th special, but Tennant / Hurt don't until they're Matt Smith and its all over.
Click to expand...

The 50th specifically implies that once it begins you'll begin to remember, too - 11 has this moment of realization when he sees the time portal and has the fez in his hands. "I remember this... almost remember." So one wonders if next week we'll see it gradually start to 'click' for Missy, too.
 
LordRaptor

LordRaptor

Member
APZonerunner said:
The 50th specifically implies that once it begins you'll begin to remember, too - 11 has this moment of realization when he sees the time portal and has the fez in his hands. "I remember this... almost remember." So one wonders if next week we'll see it gradually start to 'click' for Missy, too.
Click to expand...

When I was watching it I immediately jumped to the conclusion based on how I interpret Who to work that Missy was the 'younger', and the things Simm was saying were just the usual failings of language and prepositions in scenarios where you are talking to you from a different point in your own timeline, but rewatching I could well be wrong and Missy is actually the 'older' of the two.

e:
Specifically "I'm worried about your future" meaning "I'm worried about my present" not wanting to do a heel/face turn and removing himself as that incarnation
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
LordRaptor said:
When I was watching it I immediately jumped to the conclusion based on how I interpret Who to work that Missy was the 'younger', and the things Simm was saying were just the usual failings of language and prepositions in scenarios where you are talking to you from a different point in your own timeline, but rewatching I could well be wrong and Missy is actually the 'older' of the two.

e:
Specifically "I'm worried about your future" meaning "I'm worried about my present" not wanting to do a heel/face turn and removing himself as that incarnation
Click to expand...

In Death in Heaven Missy specifically references escaping Gallifrey after being left behind - this is a pretty clear-cut reference to The End of Time.

Combine that with lines about "My Future" etc and it's clear the order is Jacobi>Simm>Gomez, with a big question mark falling between Roberts and Jacobi.
 
E

EvilRedEye

Member
Doesn't really make any sense for Missy to be pre-Simm, her chronology is pretty firmly established even though we haven't seen the regeneration - we know she's post-Time War, we know she's post-Day of the Doctor. She even has a cartload of Time Lord tech with her in Series 8 suggesting she's come straight from post-Day of the Doctor Gallifrey.
 
H

HigXx

Member
I wish they hadnt revealed John Simm returning. The reveal was amazing and would have been so much better if we didn't know.0

I think Moffats trying to pull off seeing 13 for the first time in the show. Especially with the whole "The episodes still not finished"
 
M

Mariolee

Member
HigXx said:
I wish they hadnt revealed John Simm returning. The reveal was amazing and would have been so much better if we didn't know.0

I think Moffats trying to pull off seeing 13 for the first time in the show. Especially with the whole "The episodes still not finished"
Click to expand...

I had my friend who dropped out of Doctor Who last season when Clara left and had him watch just this episode. The reveal of John Simm had him standing up and screaming, "NO WAY."
 
S

Sheroking

Member
APZonerunner said:
In Death in Heaven Missy specifically references escaping Gallifrey after being left behind - this is a pretty clear-cut reference to The End of Time.

Combine that with lines about "My Future" etc and it's clear the order is Jacobi>Simm>Gomez, with a big question mark falling between Roberts and Jacobi.
Click to expand...

The established chain of events is pretty clear.

Roberts was killed in the McGann film. He was resurrected some time later to fight in the Time War. He expended an unknown amount of lives, ran from the Time War to the end of time; regenerated into a child and used a fob watch to hide his identity. He grew old as a human into Derek Jacobi, regained his memories when he opened the fob watch and regenerated into the Simm master after being wounded.

Simm did all his shit, died, was resurrected in The End of Time. Sealed himself away with the Time Lords before Rassilon could escape. The idea here is that Simm escaped Gallifrey, did all this shit we're seeing now and will likely regenerate into Missy by the end of this next episode IMO.

The younger Missy will have forgotten because Time Lords do not remember interacting with their older selves as a way to prevent paradox.
 
C

Cowlick

Banned
Sheroking said:
The established chain of events is pretty clear.

Roberts was killed in the McGann film. He was resurrected some time later to fight in the Time War. He expended an unknown amount of lives, ran from the Time War to the end of time; regenerated into a child and used a fog watch to hide his identity. He grew old as a human into Derek Jacobi, regained his memories when he opened the fog watch and regenerated into the Simm master after being wounded.

Simm did all his shit, died, was resurrected in The End of Time. Sealed himself away with the Time Lords before Rassilon could escape. The idea here is that Simm escaped Gallifrey, did all this shit we're seeing now and will likely regenerate into Missy by the end of this next episode IMO.

The younger Missy will have forgotten because Time Lords do not remember interacting with their older selves as a way to prevent paradox.
Click to expand...
He what now?
 
N

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
Drewton said:
Personally, she and Donna are my two least favorites. She had the worst companion intro episode, that didn't help.
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i'd have to disagree. Bill is a great companion and much better than Clara and Rose.

My favorite companions are Sarah Jane, River Song, Bill, Wilfred, Adric, Rory, Amy Pond, K-9, captain jack and nardole.
 
D

Davide

Member
Just watched Eaters of Light and my God what happened to Doctor Who this year.

I started watching mainly Moffat's season so it's not like I have a preference for the RTD seasons or have an aversion to Steven Moffat's writing. I loved Series 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9. But this was a story that a reminded me of 1960's Star Trek in the worst possible way, a subpar unbelievable story but without the charm or the characters. None of the characters are weak and even the Doctor is at his least interesting in all 9 new seasons, and Capaldi may be my favourite. Series 8 gets hate but it was WAY better than this.

The most interesting aspect is the Doctor/Missy relationship, so I have a feeling the final two episodes will be better.
 
F

forgeforsaken

Member
Sheroking said:
Jacobi's Doctor tells the story of being found as a child with a fob watch. He must've regenerated into a child and erased his memory with the watch.

He had a full human life as Yana before opening the watch in "Utopia".
Click to expand...

False memory, just like the Doctor when he believed he was John Smith.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Pagusas said:
-_- I hope this is a joke.
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N_aE2s.gif


That's funny.
 
P

Perineum

Member
paragonpro said:
Is this bills only season? It would be a massive waste of a
Great companion if it were.
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I find her to be the single worst companion the Doctor has ever had. Nardole should've just been the primary companion since he is actually interesting and funny.

She is poorly written, meh acted, and has some of the worst decision making ever for a TV character.
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Sheroking said:
The established chain of events is pretty clear.

Roberts was killed in the McGann film. He was resurrected some time later to fight in the Time War. He expended an unknown amount of lives, ran from the Time War to the end of time; regenerated into a child and used a fob watch to hide his identity. He grew old as a human into Derek Jacobi, regained his memories when he opened the fob watch and regenerated into the Simm master after being wounded.

Simm did all his shit, died, was resurrected in The End of Time. Sealed himself away with the Time Lords before Rassilon could escape. The idea here is that Simm escaped Gallifrey, did all this shit we're seeing now and will likely regenerate into Missy by the end of this next episode IMO.

The younger Missy will have forgotten because Time Lords do not remember interacting with their older selves as a way to prevent paradox.
Click to expand...

Dis we see simm regenerate into missy or did she just appear?

If not then they can kill off both master/missy next episode if they want - Regenerate the master into missy resetting her memories so she's evil again (and will need to run away because she'll need to be alive later for the earlier episodes). And missy could sacrifice herself to show she is genuinely good - and either regenerate or fully die. Either way you get an evil master back
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
I think it's a crying shame the Paternoster Gang dropped out of the series the way that they did. I always thought they were great fun to have around, and I wouldn't have minded Bill getting to meet them- the lack of an adventure focused on Bill, Jenny and Vastra is surely a huge missed opportunity.
 
M

mclem

Member
lastplayed said:
This is Missy's last season right? What if she regenerated along with Simm, that'd be a brain twister.
Click to expand...

Turns out it's her last season as Missy.
Turns out she'll be #13 all along!

Perineum said:
I find her to be the single worst companion the Doctor has ever had. Nardole should've just been the primary companion since he is actually interesting and funny.

She is poorly written, meh acted, and has some of the worst decision making ever for a TV character.
Click to expand...

While I strongly disagree with what you're saying about Bill, I do have to agree that Nardole has been far, far better than I had expected. Maybe he'll be the constant point of reference for the viewers in a time of great change?
 
E

EvilRedEye

Member
acheron_xl said:
I still want to see a Macqueen to Jacobi regeneration.
Click to expand...

In licensed media there's another Time War-era Master incarnation before Jacobi, ruling that out. Also, I guess Macqueen would need to straight-up die to fit in with the Master being resurrected during the Time War so I'm not sure he'll ever be depicted regenerating.
 
LordRaptor

LordRaptor

Member
I mostly really like Nardole as it adds an extra layer of meta humour to that Inspector Spacetime convention episode of Community
 
B

Boem

Member
Pagusas said:
I suppose you enjoyed the farting aliens too?

Between the news paper throw and the random "zoink!" Sound effects thrown through the episode, I got to wonder what the hell happened.
Click to expand...

I don't agree that the newspaper scene is on the same level as the farting. One is funny, the other isn't, for starters. A bit of occasional silly slapstick has always been a part of the show really. Hell, Patrick Throughton (aka forever the best one) was the king of that stuff.

I agree that the piano drop sound effect was hella weird though. But Strax gets an undeserved bad rap, the only thing I can say against him is that there is perhaps a bit too much of him for what the joke is. But a sort of reformed Sontaran serving as a Victorian butler? That's good stuff, to me. As far as "this one's for the kids" stuff goes, he's more than fine. He had some golden scenes during his time. I'd count the newspaper scene with that, but also stuff like the memory worm scene. He's a novel way of creating a returning character for this show, and especially a novel way of using ancient existing Doctor Who concepts in new ways, which Moffat was always good at.

It's silly and goofy, but that's Doctor Who for you. I think it worked.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Drewton said:
Just watched Eaters of Light and my God what happened to Doctor Who this year.

I started watching mainly Moffat's season so it's not like I have a preference for the RTD seasons or have an aversion to Steven Moffat's writing. I loved Series 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9. But this was a story that a reminded me of 1960's Star Trek in the worst possible way, a subpar unbelievable story but without the charm or the characters. None of the characters are weak and even the Doctor is at his least interesting in all 9 new seasons, and Capaldi may be my favourite. Series 8 gets hate but it was WAY better than this.

The most interesting aspect is the Doctor/Missy relationship, so I have a feeling the final two episodes will be better.
Click to expand...

I love this season, but there are 3 duds by my reckoning, and this is one of them.

If you describe the episode, it sounds pretty great. But in execution fails badly.
 
B

Boem

Member
PMurphy1978 said:
Not Tom Baker? Or Tenant?
Click to expand...

Tom Baker perhaps, Tennant, nah. He's not even the best modern Doctor!

Tom Baker is definitely great and probably the most approachable classic Doctor for new fans, but for me personally nothing beats Troughton. The man was a genius with that part. Brilliant performance, and he influenced the show we have today and every Doctor who came after him in so many ways. Hell, without his left-field take we probably wouldn't have a show today. A beautiful mix between hilarious comedic timing, melancholic sadness and, at times, intense anger. His face is hypnotic.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
My favorite is McGann, but the degree of difficulty is convincing people to listen to radio dramas.

Which isn't as hard as it used to be considering the transmogrification of the podcast medium.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Bobby Roberts said:
My favorite is McGann, but the degree of difficulty is convincing people to listen to radio dramas.

Which isn't as hard as it used to be considering the transmogrification of the podcast medium.
Click to expand...

I've listened to a handful of 8's Big Finish adventures and they were absolutely great.

It was before Capaldi's run, I think, and I kept wondering why the actual show wasn't as good as the audio plays.
 
B

Boem

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
I've listened to a handful of 8's Big Finish adventures and they were absolutely great.

It was before Capaldi's run, I think, and I kept wondering why the actual show wasn't as good as the audio plays.
Click to expand...

I think some of the show's high points are definitely in the audios, but I also think it's fair to say that the level of quality with the Big Finish stuff isn't exactly consistent. There's a lot of repetition in them, with most stories basically amounting to a Mark Gatiss-like 'well, that's a standard Who story alright' level of quality. Which isn't surprising given that there are so many of them of course. But, outside of the occasional story that suddenly jumps out at you (which are definitely there as well), most of them just kind of exist as more of the same.

(Just for the record, I am very happy that Big Finish exists and does its thing, if only to give all these older actors a nice little side income and the chance to do something they love every year - even if only very specific parts of it are for me, it is very much a good thing).
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
Big Finish made a concerted effort for awhile there to try and emulate the current revival series format as opposed to the classic series', and that spawned the Eighth Doctor Adventures, which became 4 series of 10 hourlong episodes, that had their own overarching plotlines and surprises and such. I still think it's the best thing Big Finish ever did, and introduced one of the best companions ever, Lucie Miller (Sheridan Smith).

I've gone on about em before in here, but yeah - Those four seasons are a large part of why McGann's my favorite now.
 
M

mclem

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
I still think it's the best thing Big Finish ever did, and introduced one of the best companions ever, Lucie Miller (Sheridan Smith).
Click to expand...

Speaking of which: Isn't it about time Sheridan Smith did something in the TV series? She's always been someone I half-expected to have some involvement at some point, but that's never been the case.
 
B

Boem

Member
Bobby Roberts said:
Big Finish made a concerted effort for awhile there to try and emulate the current revival series format as opposed to the classic series', and that spawned the Eighth Doctor Adventures, which became 4 series of 10 hourlong episodes, that had their own overarching plotlines and surprises and such. I still think it's the best thing Big Finish ever did, and introduced one of the best companions ever, Lucie Miller (Sheridan Smith).

I've gone on about em before in here, but yeah - Those four seasons are a large part of why McGann's my favorite now.
Click to expand...

Yeah that stuff is really good. When they really try to make something big and unique, it usually works out well. In the last couple of years, outside of a couple of series, I do think the quality has gone down a bit though. Almost anything Nicholas Briggs writes himself (and its a lot) ends up being more or less the same as stuff he's done before.

Not trying to sound too negative about Big Finish btw, in the end it's a good time more often than not. But I do think they've gone for quantity over quality a bit too much over the years.

Also your new avatar is confusing me, I didn't realize I was talking to you until just now Bobby. Yes, I just look at the pictures instead of reading the user names, sue me.

mclem said:
Speaking of which: Isn't it about time Sheridan Smith did something in the TV series? She's always been someone I half-expected to have some involvement at some point, but that's never been the case.
Click to expand...

I always imagined that, if we'd ever get a full episode or internet miniseries starring McGann (something longer than the 50th thing, and I don't know how likely that is), they'd probably put her there as his companion. I think she'd have the biggest shot at being there out of all his audio companions. But just putting her in the show without McGann seems unlikely to me. Probably too much of a deep cut. They'd just do a classic series companion in that case.
 
S

Savitar

Member
Sheroking said:
The established chain of events is pretty clear.

Roberts was killed in the McGann film. He was resurrected some time later to fight in the Time War. He expended an unknown amount of lives, ran from the Time War to the end of time; regenerated into a child and used a fob watch to hide his identity. He grew old as a human into Derek Jacobi, regained his memories when he opened the fob watch and regenerated into the Simm master after being wounded.

Simm did all his shit, died, was resurrected in The End of Time. Sealed himself away with the Time Lords before Rassilon could escape. The idea here is that Simm escaped Gallifrey, did all this shit we're seeing now and will likely regenerate into Missy by the end of this next episode IMO.

The younger Missy will have forgotten because Time Lords do not remember interacting with their older selves as a way to prevent paradox.
Click to expand...

Where does the War Master come in then since they're doing a Big Finish recording with him now.
 
B

Boem

Member
Savitar said:
Where does the War Master come in then since they're doing a Big Finish recording with him now.
Click to expand...

Jacobi is the Master during the Time War (he's also playing him in the Big Finish stuff), so he's the War Master. Although, according to the events of the tv series, he isn't aware he's the Master during that period due to the fob watch. So Big Finish will either explore him as a Master who doesn't know he's the Master, or do something silly like him regaining his memory at the beginning and losing it again at the end of the story so it still lines up with the tv show.
 
M

mclem

Member
Boem said:
Jacobi is the Master during the Time War (he's also playing him in the Big Finish stuff), so he's the War Master. Although, according to the events of the tv series, he isn't aware he's the Master during that period due to the fob watch. So Big Finish will either explore him as a Master who doesn't know he's the Master, or do something silly like him regaining his memory at the beginning and losing it again at the end of the story so it still lines up with the tv show.
Click to expand...

Or Jacobi hadn't used the fob watch to hide his Master persona yet. Wouldn't that be far, far simpler?
 
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