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[ClivePwned]

Did they give a reason for the First Doctor needs to regenerate? I know Hartnell's health was failing, but he wasn't in a lot of the serial so I wasn't really sure what was going on with the Doctor. I know he made the remark about his body wearing a bit thin.

I'm going to watch 8 serials in Troughton's run. Looking forward to it.

just he was getting old, though If I remember correctly (or it was just the Target novelisation), The Doctor may have been affected by Mondas' draining of energy from Earth.

Really, Hartnell is in so little of his final story that it might as well be considered a Doctor Lite story.

 

[tomtom94]

Not that I remember. I bet Moffat will give a definite reason that isn't just "getting old" and people will crucify him for it.

They've said they're going to openly talk about regeneration and they're using the modern effects, so. Although I think Moffat might want to keep it as old age because otherwise the parallels in Time of the Doctor don't work.

Off-topic: Michelle Gomez had a couple of guest appearances in Gotham. Since she uses her natural accent and is working as a hitman I choose to believe this is Missy in between regenerating from Simm and Dark Water.

 

[EverythingShiny]

just he was getting old, though If I remember correctly (or it was just the Target novelisation), The Doctor may have been affected by Mondas' draining of energy from Earth.

Really, Hartnell is in so little of his final story that it might as well be considered a Doctor Lite story.

I was wondering if that was part of it, since he seemed to be affected by what was going on with Mondas. He collapses for no given reason at that one point in the serial and then basically disappears. It was so odd, since I'm used to a super dramatic reason (10, I'm looking at you) for the doctor's regeneration in nuWho.

I do hope the Mondasian cybermen return and I'm curious to see if Chibnall resurrects any of the previous monsters as well.

Finished the first episode of Power of the Daleks and I'm really digging Troughton so far.

 

[tonysidaway]

He collapses for no given reason at that one point in the serial and then basically disappears. It was so odd, since I'm used to a super dramatic reason (10, I'm looking at you) for the doctor's regeneration in nuWho.

I haven't seen any of the reconstructions of The Tenth Planet, and my memory of the original viewing in 1966 is understandably very hazy (not least because I had just turned 10 and might well have been literally hiding behind the sofa from those disturbing new creatures, the Cybermen.) But Wikipedia records that William Hartnell sent the production team a telegram on the Monday of the week in which the third of the four episodes was to be recorded, telling them he was not well enough to perform.

So here was a situation forced on the production, prompting last-minute rewrites, the Doctor completely absent for the whole third episode, and a reduced burden on Hartnell during the final (now missing) episode. Though Wikipedia here notes that knowledge of Hartnell's declining health had already led the writers to trim his participation just in case something like this happened.

I think others have correctly guessed where this all leads us. The first words from David Bradley's First Doctor are a defiant "I will not change. I will not! No, no, no, no. The whole thing's ridiculous", unconsciously echoing the sentiment the audience has just seen Peter Capaldi's Twelfth Doctor voice: "I will not change." According to Wikipedia, originally the script of the 1966 regeneration sequence had The First Doctor say something like "No... no, I simply will not give in!" This was cut, so Hartnell's departure gives the First Doctor's "renewal" scene a much meaker appearance than the words of the original script suggest.

The scene is now set for the First and Twelfth Doctors, working together on their last great challenge, to become reconciled to the personal death that is regeneration. And it's Moffat's final bow so this will resonate more deeply.

 

[APZonerunner]

It would be very Moffat to explain this little (and largely inconsequential) gap in the lore as his final act on the show, ha.

 

[Platy]

What if we actually see 1 regenerating to 2 and .... it is actually played by capaldi in a bowlcut wig with very angry eyebrows

 

[Tizoc]

What if we actually see 1 regenerating to 2 and .... it is actually played by capaldi in a bowlcut wig with very angry eyebrows

I need this to happen.

 

[EverythingShiny]

What if we actually see 1 regenerating to 2 and .... it is actually played by capaldi in a bowlcut wig with very angry eyebrows

Hah, that would be amazing. I really like Troughton a lot. I may watch more of his episodes than I originally planned - I'm on The Moonbase now. More Cybermen! It's such a bummer that so many of his episodes were lost. I dig the animations but it's just not the same.

 

[Spectromixer]

Anyone else going to The Five Doctors RiffTrax cinema event thing this week? I'm pretty excited.

 

[Blader]

Anyone else going to The Five Doctors RiffTrax cinema event thing this week? I'm pretty excited.

I'm going too. I haven't seen a live Rifftrax in ages. My girlfriend also has a ticket, but she hasn't seen a second of Doctor Who or MST3K before...so, I'm a little wary...

 

[Spectromixer]

I'm going too. I haven't seen a live Rifftrax in ages. My girlfriend also has a ticket, but she hasn't seen a second of Doctor Who or MST3K before...so, I'm a little wary...

Haha that should be interesting

 

[EverythingShiny]

I'm going! There's a Doctor Who meetup group in my area and we're going to dinner and then to see the movie. I love Rifftrax but this is the first time I'm going to one of the events in a theater. I'm pretty excited.

 

[tomtom94]

Whittaker on the show (bit of a nothingburger)

"I have to say, I got more into it when it got brought back," Jodie said.

"Even though I'm 35, I feel like for me, my interest sparked with Christopher Eccleston and David Tennant and Matt Smith and I feel kind of a part of that as well.

"Thats what feels exciting about it, like you can list these 13 actors and none of us are similar. Even when it's been 12 men, none of us are similar."

 

[Stallion Dan]

Wow, on my rewatch of new Who I discovered an episode I had never seen before, Planet of the Dead. Tennant my fav Doctor so it like finding a bit of hidden treasure.

The year it aired was a bunch of one off specials here and there, so I guess I somehow missed it.

 

[PaulloDEC]

Wow, on my rewatch of new Who I discovered an episode I had never seen before, Planet of the Dead. Tennant my fav Doctor so it like finding a bit of hidden treasure.

The year it aired was a bunch of one off specials here and there, so I guess I somehow missed it.

Oh man, that's only ever happened to me once, with Simpsons S4 episode "New Kid on the Block". It really is super exciting.

 

[Spectromixer]

I'm going! There's a Doctor Who meetup group in my area and we're going to dinner and then to see the movie. I love Rifftrax but this is the first time I'm going to one of the events in a theater. I'm pretty excited.

This is going to be my first one in the theater too!

 

[Blader]

Genesis of the Daleks
The famous Genesis of the Daleks, so often held up as one of the best Doctor Who stories, if not the best ever. I'm not sure if I'd go that far, but it was pretty good.

On its own merits, it was a pretty interesting story, depicting the (literal) space Nazi origins of the Daleks, the civil war on Skaro, the disagreements even within the Kaleds over the future of their race (though everyone seems pretty chill about one day mutating into a green octopus). Grim as fuck, particularly the ending, which was great. Davros is also a really fascinating character, as he relates to the Daleks, the Doctor, the Kaleds -- he's on no real side but his own, and the way that plays out to his benefit and detriment is really interesting to see. Michael Wisher's performance as Davros is also *fantastic*.

But, as a Doctor Who story though, I'm not sure what to think of it. I don't necessarily think that the Doctor needs to change history and actually affect the outcome of a story for it to feel like a significant Doctor Who story. I think there's value in seeing the Doctor trying but failing to change things for the better; there's some drama to get out of that, and this story certainly does so with a couple great conversations between the Doctor and Davros as well as the Doctor's own monologue about whether he has the right to commit genocide when, at that point in time, the Daleks hadn't done anything to deserve it yet (I appreciate the morality play but frankly I find the Doctor's position here really irresponsible and inexcusable, especially his rationalization later that if there were no Daleks, then other planets/races wouldn't have a common enemy to unite against).

Still, something about the fact that the Doctor having no real impact on any of this -- that if he hadn't gone to Skaro in the first place everything would've still stayed the same -- kind of rubs me the wrong way. This was also my first Tom Baker serial, which in hindsight might have been a mistake, because this story is way less about the Fourth Doctor than it is about Davros and the Daleks. On a separate issue, I also never really found the subplots with Sarah and the 'mutos' engaging, though that's not really a big deal.

Despite some quibbles, it was a really good story with some very interesting food for thought. Next up: City of Death

 

[ClivePwned]

Genesis of the Daleks
The famous Genesis of the Daleks, so often held up as one of the best Doctor Who stories, if not the best ever. I'm not sure if I'd go that far, but it was pretty good.

On its own merits, it was a pretty interesting story, depicting the (literal) space Nazi origins of the Daleks, the civil war on Skaro, the disagreements even within the Kaleds over the future of their race (though everyone seems pretty chill about one day mutating into a green octopus). Grim as fuck, particularly the ending, which was great. Davros is also a really fascinating character, as he relates to the Daleks, the Doctor, the Kaleds -- he's on no real side but his own, and the way that plays out to his benefit and detriment is really interesting to see. Michael Wisher's performance as Davros is also *fantastic*.

But, as a Doctor Who story though, I'm not sure what to think of it. I don't necessarily think that the Doctor needs to change history and actually affect the outcome of a story for it to feel like a significant Doctor Who story. I think there's value in seeing the Doctor trying but failing to change things for the better; there's some drama to get out of that, and this story certainly does so with a couple great conversations between the Doctor and Davros as well as the Doctor's own monologue about whether he has the right to commit genocide when, at that point in time, the Daleks hadn't done anything to deserve it yet (I appreciate the morality play but frankly I find the Doctor's position here really irresponsible and inexcusable, especially his rationalization later that if there were no Daleks, then other planets/races wouldn't have a common enemy to unite against).

Still, something about the fact that the Doctor having no real impact on any of this -- that if he hadn't gone to Skaro in the first place everything would've still stayed the same -- kind of rubs me the wrong way. This was also my first Tom Baker serial, which in hindsight might have been a mistake, because this story is way less about the Fourth Doctor than it is about Davros and the Daleks. On a separate issue, I also never really found the subplots with Sarah and the 'mutos' engaging, though that's not really a big deal.

Despite some quibbles, it was a really good story with some very interesting food for thought. Next up: City of Death

If you want more about the Fourth Doctor, I'd go with Ark in Space, Pyramids of Mars, Brain of Morbius, Talons of Weng Chiang before skipping ahead to City but either way, enjoy.

That said, Genesis is, for me, one of the finest Dalek stories ever. Definitely the best featuring Davros.

 

[Blader]

If you want more about the Fourth Doctor, I'd go with Ark in Space, Pyramids of Mars, Brain of Morbius, Talons of Weng Chiang before skipping ahead to City but either way, enjoy.

That said, Genesis is, for me, one of the finest Dalek stories ever. Definitely the best featuring Davros.

I'll come back to all that stuff later on, I'm just sampling one or two from each classic Doctor for now.

 

[ClivePwned]

I'll come back to all that stuff later on, I'm just sampling one or two from each classic Doctor for now.

cool. godspeed.

 

[EverythingShiny]

The Second Doctor is sooooo good! Patrick Troughton is an excellent doctor. I just finished The Evil of the Daleks and loved it. Oh my god, the dizzy Daleks scene made me laugh so hard. Also, I love that the Second Doctor plays the recorder. It puts Twelve playing the guitar into perspective.

So far, I've watched The Power of the Daleks, The Moonbase, The Evil of the Daleks and I'm currently on Tomb of the Cybermen. I'm planning on watching the Abominable Snowmen, the Ice Warriors, the Web of Fear, the Invasion, and the War Games. Any other classic Second Doctor episodes I need to watch?

 

[acheron_xl]

No watch of Troughton is complete without the Mind Robber or Enemy of the World (where you get double the Troughton!)

 

[APZonerunner]

Enemy of the World feels a lot like a modern Doctor Who script to me - way more than most classic Who stories. I could see a (heavily truncated) version of that script in the RTD era in particular, ha. Great story.

 

[EverythingShiny]

Thanks guys, I'll add those to my list. I forgot to mention - Jamie is pretty great, too. The kilt really seals the deal.

 

[Stallion Dan]

So, in the 50th anniversary episode the three doctors do that thing where War Doc scans the door so the screwdriver can calculate for hundreds of years, though, 9, 10 and for 11 to finally use.

BUT! This shouldn't work as in 'Smith and Jones' and 'The Eleventh Hour' the screwdriver is destroyed in each and a new one needs be built.

Not the biggest continuity error, but a very simple one.

 

[tonysidaway]

So, in the 50th anniversary episode the three doctors do that thing where War Doc scans the door so the screwdriver can calculate for hundreds of years, though, 9, 10 and for 11 to finally use.

BUT! This shouldn't work as in 'Smith and Jones' and 'The Eleventh Hour' the screwdriver is destroyed in each and a new one needs be built.

Not the biggest continuity error, but a very simple one.

No, it's just that Doctor Who is a bit of a dalek about software backups.

 

[Stallion Dan]

No, it's just that Doctor Who is a bit of a dalek about software backups.

But they forget the events of the episode at the end so wouldn't know to back it up!

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I have had the same observation, I just figured that the TARDIS backs up the contents periodically and dumps the most recent into the new screwdriver.

Best I got. Moffat's great at cool ideas that don't hold up, but I kinda like this one anyway.

 

[Blader]

But they forget the events of the episode at the end so wouldn't know to back it up!

My phone backs up to iCloud automatically. I assume Time Lord tech is a little more sophisticated!

 

[tomtom94]

Fun story: apparently Smith rang up the BBC demanding to know who the 13th Doctor was

 

[Spectromixer]

Fun story: apparently Smith rang up the BBC demanding to know who the 13th Doctor was

When he found out, he also left Jodie a voicemail of him singing the Doctor Who theme when she didn't pick up the phone https://twitter.com/impossiblynikki/status/897182157294186496

 

[tonysidaway]

But they forget the events of the episode at the end so wouldn't know to back it up!

No sweat. It gets picked up next time the screwdriver is backed up.

Best I got. Moffat's great at cool ideas that don't hold up, but I kinda like this one anyway.

It's right there in the script. "It's the same screwdriver. Same software, different case."

 

[EverythingShiny]

Fun story: apparently Smith rang up the BBC demanding to know who the 13th Doctor was

Hah, they got John Barrowman's name wrong in the article. Also, Matt's socks are amazing.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

No sweat. It gets picked up next time the screwdriver is backed up.



It's right there in the script. "It's the same screwdriver. Same software, different case."

Yeah, but it's a handwave. The Sonic got sorta melted at least once.

 

[tonysidaway]

Yeah, but it's a handwave. The Sonic got sorta melted at least once.

What exactly were you expecting? Matt Smith's Doctor pauses to give a hilarious, thigh-slapping yet somehow detailed and of course utterly riveting lecture on TARDIS backup mechanisms and data integrity procedures? I'll never understand fans.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I SAID I LIKED IT!

I even made up the backup explanation in my head to cover it!

It's just an example of Moffat sloppiness.

 

[tonysidaway]

I SAID I LIKED IT!

I even made up the backup explanation in my head to cover it!

It's just an example of Moffat sloppiness.

Was he being sloppy, or were you simply being inattentive?

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

It's not even that hard of a stretch to say it was something along the lines of cloud backups lol

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Was he being sloppy, or were you simply being inattentive?

The in-show explanation makes it out to be the same internals, just a new shell. The must-have-been-backed-up was my internal explanation since it was actually destroyed twice.

Man, you take this stuff seriously.

EDIT: I've been rewatching and have seen 11th hour recently, and will see the 50th soon-- so I'll see if they really explain it or if it's sloppy.

 

[tomtom94]

The whole thing was irrelevant anyway since the door was unlocked.

 

[tonysidaway]

Man, you take this stuff seriously.

Says the guy who thinks not having a detailed in-universe explanation of the most trivial plot point is "sloppy."

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Says the guy who thinks not having a detailed in-universe explanation of the most trivial plot point is "sloppy."

And said it didn't bother me because I liked the idea...

 

[tomtom94]

Youtube animator OnlyLeigh with a hilarious take on the 13th Doctor's regeneration

 

[Stallion Dan]

What have I done!

 

[Horsefly]

What have I done!

Quick, start making lists.. these guys love making lists

 

[Spectromixer]

Youtube animator OnlyLeigh with a hilarious take on the 13th Doctor's regeneration

I love this. Really makes me wish Bill and Missy will get to meet 13

 

[acheron_xl]

Quick, start making lists.. these guys love making lists

You're not a real Doctor Who fan if you're not down with a list. Ranking shit is probably the third best thing about Who fandom behind complaining and cosplay.

 

[paradox121]

You're not a real Doctor Who fan if you're not down with a list. Ranking shit is probably the third best thing about Who fandom behind complaining and cosplay.

Best things about fandom:

1. Moaning about episodes
2. Needlessly comparing RTD and Moffat
3. Making fan fiction/videos/art
4. Making a list
5. Having incorrect opinions
6. Generally being pretty cool, progressive folk

 

[8bit]

When he found out, he also left Jodie a voicemail of him singing the Doctor Who theme when she didn't pick up the phone https://twitter.com/impossiblynikki/status/897182157294186496

That's fantastic.

Also, Matt Smith's beard is looking pretty good.

 

[tonysidaway]

You're not a real Doctor Who fan if you're not down with a list. Ranking shit is probably the third best thing about Who fandom behind complaining and cosplay.

Making lists is number 1 on my list of pet hates about fandom.