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Doctor Who Series 10 |OT| He's Back, and It's About Time
- Thread starter tomtom94
- Start date
ClivePwned
Member
City of Death
"You know, I think something very funny's going on. You remember that man that was following us?"
"Yes."
"Well, he's standing behind me, poking a gun in my back."
What a delightful story. I'm not sure how much I liked the actual plot -- though there is some clever time travel shenanigans -- but the dialogue and banter between the Doctor, Romana, Duggan, and the Count was just sharp and funny as hell. Romana is also such a great companion; she and Baker have great chemistry together (apparently off screen too, since they were married for a few years following the show) but she's also a great presence in her own right. And while I didn't totally know what to make of Baker's Doctor in Genesis of the Daleks, he hits all the right notes for me in this story. *This* is the Doctor I can see that so many went gaga over for so many decades.
Tonight: The Five Doctors w/ Rifftrax
"You know, I think something very funny's going on. You remember that man that was following us?"
"Yes."
"Well, he's standing behind me, poking a gun in my back."
What a delightful story. I'm not sure how much I liked the actual plot -- though there is some clever time travel shenanigans -- but the dialogue and banter between the Doctor, Romana, Duggan, and the Count was just sharp and funny as hell. Romana is also such a great companion; she and Baker have great chemistry together (apparently off screen too, since they were married for a few years following the show) but she's also a great presence in her own right. And while I didn't totally know what to make of Baker's Doctor in Genesis of the Daleks, he hits all the right notes for me in this story. *This* is the Doctor I can see that so many went gaga over for so many decades.
Tonight: The Five Doctors w/ Rifftrax
Spectromixer
Member
Rifftrax was fun. The best part was
the Jodie Whittaker joke 
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
One of the better Rifftrax live shows. Tons of great jokes.
Think I my favorite was when the Cyberman just walked in the background and then left.
Think I my favorite was when the Cyberman just walked in the background and then left.
The Five Doctors
So I think the biggest problem with this episode is that there's no reason for almost anyone to be here. Troughton, Pertwee, and literally every companion serves no role. They just don't do anything. The only characters who actually matter here are the First and Fifth Doctors, insofar as they're the only ones that make decisions that set events into motion and solve problems, even if they're pretty easily solved problems.
When I watched The Three Doctors a few weeks ago, my big takeaway from that anniversary story was that while the plot itself was nothing special and the villain was particularly terrible, what made the whole thing worthwhile was Pertwee and Troughton's chemistry together (or rather, anti-chemistry). But you get almost none of that in The Five Doctors. Hurndall and Davison get a few scenes together, but otherwise everyone is kept separate until the very end, which feels like a colossal missed opportunity. It's one thing if you can't actually get five Doctors -- if Baker doesn't want to participate and Hartnell is no longer alive, well, those really can't helped -- but at least make do with the Doctors you do have!
Speaking of missed opportunities: Susan. They replay that clip from the end of The Dalek Invasion of Earth, where Hartnell leaves her behind but promises to come back one day, and here we have the long awaited reunion between the two and...it isn't acknowledged at all. Come on!
On the plus side, I actually thought Hurndall did a fine job as the First Doctor. I've read nothing but almost uniformly negative things about his performance before, and sure he isn't literally Hartnell, but I thought he was a pretty solid imitation all things considered. This was also my first time seeing Peter Davison as the Doctor (aside from the Time Crash short) and while he doesn't get a whole lot to work with, I did like him well enough. It was also nice to see Troughton again, even though for some reason he and Pertwee spend 95 percent of the story trucking around these 30 pound coats.
A multi-Doctor story where the Doctors barely meet; a multi-companion story where the companions don't do anything; and a plot that's heavy on Time Lord nonsense and light on the Doctor doing much of anything consequential. It would've been a pretty disappointing episode if the Rifftrax wasn't so good. I hadn't seen a live Rifftrax in years but they did a great job and really killed on some of their jokes. So when you factor that in, The Five Doctors, while a weak episode on its own merits, averaged out to be a good time overall. And if nothing else, it also gave me a greater appreciation for what Moffat pulled off with The Day of the Doctor.
That was my favorite bit too.
So I think the biggest problem with this episode is that there's no reason for almost anyone to be here. Troughton, Pertwee, and literally every companion serves no role. They just don't do anything. The only characters who actually matter here are the First and Fifth Doctors, insofar as they're the only ones that make decisions that set events into motion and solve problems, even if they're pretty easily solved problems.
When I watched The Three Doctors a few weeks ago, my big takeaway from that anniversary story was that while the plot itself was nothing special and the villain was particularly terrible, what made the whole thing worthwhile was Pertwee and Troughton's chemistry together (or rather, anti-chemistry). But you get almost none of that in The Five Doctors. Hurndall and Davison get a few scenes together, but otherwise everyone is kept separate until the very end, which feels like a colossal missed opportunity. It's one thing if you can't actually get five Doctors -- if Baker doesn't want to participate and Hartnell is no longer alive, well, those really can't helped -- but at least make do with the Doctors you do have!
Speaking of missed opportunities: Susan. They replay that clip from the end of The Dalek Invasion of Earth, where Hartnell leaves her behind but promises to come back one day, and here we have the long awaited reunion between the two and...it isn't acknowledged at all. Come on!
On the plus side, I actually thought Hurndall did a fine job as the First Doctor. I've read nothing but almost uniformly negative things about his performance before, and sure he isn't literally Hartnell, but I thought he was a pretty solid imitation all things considered. This was also my first time seeing Peter Davison as the Doctor (aside from the Time Crash short) and while he doesn't get a whole lot to work with, I did like him well enough. It was also nice to see Troughton again, even though for some reason he and Pertwee spend 95 percent of the story trucking around these 30 pound coats.
A multi-Doctor story where the Doctors barely meet; a multi-companion story where the companions don't do anything; and a plot that's heavy on Time Lord nonsense and light on the Doctor doing much of anything consequential. It would've been a pretty disappointing episode if the Rifftrax wasn't so good. I hadn't seen a live Rifftrax in years but they did a great job and really killed on some of their jokes. So when you factor that in, The Five Doctors, while a weak episode on its own merits, averaged out to be a good time overall. And if nothing else, it also gave me a greater appreciation for what Moffat pulled off with The Day of the Doctor.
That was my favorite bit too.
tonysidaway
Member
That's an exceptionally good episode. I think it stands up very well, and John Hurt's grizzled, war-weary portrayal has become a fan favourite.
acheron_xl
Member
What Moffat was able to pull off in what sounds like a difficult process is a minor miracle.
The Five Doctors production was difficult too, and they didn't pull it off nearly as well.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Just watched Day of the Doctor night before last, and it really is one of Moffat's best. Certainly his best "big" story.
Not only all the coordinating of actors and whatnot, but it's a really great script as well. It has layers that the average TV show does not.
Not only all the coordinating of actors and whatnot, but it's a really great script as well. It has layers that the average TV show does not.
The average quality of Moffat's scripts have gone down when he became showrunner (which of course is something to be expected when he has to write so much more Who) but when he knocks it out of the park he really knocks it out of the park.
I do hope that if he comes up with some grand idea for a Doctor Who script after becoming show runner he writes it and gets it to the current show runner.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Agreed on all counts.
tonysidaway
Member
I agree wholeheartedly. It was a great disappointment to see that Russell T Davies stopped cold turkey after his time with the show. To lose a talented and popular writer at the same time as a show-runner is a double blow, though I fully understand the feeling that it's time to devote one's energy to whatever comes after. Both Davies and Moffat turned out scripts that have expanded the scope of the franchise and made the show a serious contender in the TV and SFF awards.
I'm looking forward to Chris Chibnall's era, but I hope we'll continue to see Steven Moffat's writing on the show.
tonysidaway
Member
Well, it's not as if he doesn't have a lot of other irons in the fire! You can't blame a guy for hoping, though.
I'm not sure their writing styles, personal processes, and possibly egos would allow it, but I'd be really interested in a joint RTD/Moffat-penned story sometime down the line.
I'd love to see Moffat spend like 5 years casually writing an epic Doctor Who episode script in between working on his new projects such as Dracula.
Without worrying about series arcs, fans or showrunning I think he could deliver another Heaven Sent as a guest writer. I also hope as RTD gets older he wants another go at it someday too.
Without worrying about series arcs, fans or showrunning I think he could deliver another Heaven Sent as a guest writer. I also hope as RTD gets older he wants another go at it someday too.
EverythingShiny
Member
Lol, my theater lost its shit at that riff. That was hilarious. The short was so funny, too.
Also, I laughed pretty hard at all the jokes about Troughton's coat. That thing is *massive*. I also didn't realize how little he is compared to the rest of them!
tonysidaway
Member
This.
It's playing again next Thursday.
Spectromixer
Member
There is a job posting for a script editor for next series
https://twitter.com/girlyletters/status/898919101556555777
https://twitter.com/girlyletters/status/898919101556555777
"I'll do it if you'll spoiler anything important out"
This job description is making me crack up. Some personal highlights:
Translation: remind Steve yet again that Doctor Who does not have the budget for a Dalek the size of Big Ben made out of Cybermen.
"Brian, please don't quit... yes, I know the sex scene is vital to the plot, but..."
"CHRIS YOU FUCKING MUPPET WHY DID YOU SPEND ALL THE BUDGET ON THE ZYGON FOOTBALL?"
For the curious, Wikipedia has this to say on script editors now versus script editors in the 70s:
Translation: remind Steve yet again that Doctor Who does not have the budget for a Dalek the size of Big Ben made out of Cybermen.
"Brian, please don't quit... yes, I know the sex scene is vital to the plot, but..."
"CHRIS YOU FUCKING MUPPET WHY DID YOU SPEND ALL THE BUDGET ON THE ZYGON FOOTBALL?"
For the curious, Wikipedia has this to say on script editors now versus script editors in the 70s:
Wikipedia said:
EverythingShiny
Member
I've started listening to the 8th Doctor Big Finish dramas on Spotify and they're SO GOOD. About to finish up Sword of Orion. I really like Paul McGann in everything non-Who I've seen him in and I love the way his Doctor is written. Going to make my way through his Monthly Range and then onto the Eight Doctor Adventures. My twice daily dog walks just got that much more enjoyable
I've started listening to the 8th Doctor Big Finish dramas on Spotify and they're SO GOOD. About to finish up Sword of Orion. I really like Paul McGann in everything non-Who I've seen him in and I love the way his Doctor is written. Going to make my way through his Monthly Range and then onto the Eight Doctor Adventures. My twice daily dog walks just got that much more enjoyable
I had no idea that these were on Spotify. I've never listened to Big Finish stuff and there always seemed like way too many to figure out where to start. This changes everything! What's a good starting point? I'll say that while I'm familiar with the classic series I was too young to watch them at the time and I haven't really gone back to do so since, so I'd favour the newer doctors (Eight onwards), or something without too much classic series continuity knowledge required.
EvilRedEye
Member
Storm Warning onwards or Blood of the Daleks Part 1 onwards.
The main series Eighth Doctor ones (Storm Warning onwards) lean towards being a slightly more adult oriented continuation of the classic series (as the new series didn't even exist at that point). I'd say as a new series fan they're slightly less enjoyable than the more new series inspired stuff.
The Eighth Doctor Adventures (Blood of the Dalek Part 1 onwards) were specifically commissioned for BBC Radio to be a kind of bridge between the classic series and the new series. They're on the classic series license but are pretty new series in style.
There's a pretty absolute gap in continuity between the main series Eighth Doctor stuff and the Eighth Doctor Adventures so you don't need to worry about missing anything there but literally everything from Blood of the Daleks Part 1 forms part of a contiguous storyline that is still ongoing today and while there are 'jumping on' points you'll be missing continuity references unless you start there.
The main series Eighth Doctor ones (Storm Warning onwards) lean towards being a slightly more adult oriented continuation of the classic series (as the new series didn't even exist at that point). I'd say as a new series fan they're slightly less enjoyable than the more new series inspired stuff.
The Eighth Doctor Adventures (Blood of the Dalek Part 1 onwards) were specifically commissioned for BBC Radio to be a kind of bridge between the classic series and the new series. They're on the classic series license but are pretty new series in style.
There's a pretty absolute gap in continuity between the main series Eighth Doctor stuff and the Eighth Doctor Adventures so you don't need to worry about missing anything there but literally everything from Blood of the Daleks Part 1 forms part of a contiguous storyline that is still ongoing today and while there are 'jumping on' points you'll be missing continuity references unless you start there.
The problem with the Main Range is the inconsistence of quality. You have Scherzo which is one of my favorites Doctor Who stories, then Creed of the Kromon which is.... well...
The Eight Doctor Adventures audios don't have the highs of Scherzo, Chimes or Natural History of Fear. But they also don't drop I'm quality as bad as the main range stuff. Also the story arc become non-existent after Terror Firma, which made me drop them.
I suggest to listen to:
Storm Warning
Sword of Orion
Stones of Venice (I didn't like that but many people do)
Skip Minuet in Hell
Invaders of Mars
Chimes of Midnight
Season of Fear (another favorite of mine)
Skip Embrace the Darkness and Time of the Dalek
Neverland
Read a summary of Zagreus
Scherzo
Skip Creed of the Kromon. Instead listen to Faith Stealer to understand who C'rizz is.
The Natural History of Fear
Skip Twilight Kingdom.
The Last (this one was so good)
Caerdroria
The Next Life
Terror Firma
Skip Scaredy Cat.
Other Lives
Then I don't know.
The Eight Doctor Adventures audios don't have the highs of Scherzo, Chimes or Natural History of Fear. But they also don't drop I'm quality as bad as the main range stuff. Also the story arc become non-existent after Terror Firma, which made me drop them.
I suggest to listen to:
Storm Warning
Sword of Orion
Stones of Venice (I didn't like that but many people do)
Skip Minuet in Hell
Invaders of Mars
Chimes of Midnight
Season of Fear (another favorite of mine)
Skip Embrace the Darkness and Time of the Dalek
Neverland
Read a summary of Zagreus
Scherzo
Skip Creed of the Kromon. Instead listen to Faith Stealer to understand who C'rizz is.
The Natural History of Fear
Skip Twilight Kingdom.
The Last (this one was so good)
Caerdroria
The Next Life
Terror Firma
Skip Scaredy Cat.
Other Lives
Then I don't know.
paradox121
Member
I've started listening to the 8th Doctor Big Finish dramas on Spotify and they're SO GOOD. About to finish up Sword of Orion. I really like Paul McGann in everything non-Who I've seen him in and I love the way his Doctor is written. Going to make my way through his Monthly Range and then onto the Eight Doctor Adventures. My twice daily dog walks just got that much more enjoyable
You too get to have the hipster view that the 8th Doctor is secretly the best Doctor.
In spite of some rough episodes
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
Baleoce
Member
Saw this just now. Guessing it might end up being a bit like the Tennant / Tate dynamic. Then again, we don't really know what kind of personality Whittakers Doctor is going to have. I can see it playing out something like that though.
WadiumArcadium
Member
I did not see that coming.
I know of him but I haven't seen much of him acting.
Spectromixer
Member
That's weird.
I want a female doctor, female companion duo
I want a female doctor, female companion duo
paradox121
Member
Ughh.
Please no.
Please no.
Casting a middle-aged man mostly known for presenting quiz shows seems like an odd way to retain a younger audience.
Spectromixer
Member
Exterminieren
Banned
If that's true, that's quite a canny bit of casting. A lovable, well-known Everyman is just what's needed.
I think he's got panto commitments this Christmas, which might put a spanner in the works.
I think he's got panto commitments this Christmas, which might put a spanner in the works.
Walsh has a cultishly adoring younger audience thanks to his work on the Chase. Age be damned, the man's broadly loved.
Pagusas
Elden Member
That's weird.
I want a female doctor, female companion duo
Why?
tonysidaway
Member
I don't watch game shows so I only know Bradley Walsh as the gruff old detective sergeant in Law and Order UK. Well actually he's younger than me but in that show at least he was carrying a lot of weight, and looked very jowly and double-chinned.
I like to tease people and say maybe he'll play a regenerated Romanadvoratrelundar back from her exile in E-Space.
I like to tease people and say maybe he'll play a regenerated Romanadvoratrelundar back from her exile in E-Space.
Spectromixer
Member
It would be an interesting dynamic that DW hasn't had before.
Whoever the companion is I'm sure I'll find something to like about them. I didn't like Nardole at all until The Pilot, and now I love him.
That'd be a... different choice, I'll give them that.
Waiting for official word...
I expected they'll go with a heterosexual couple ala Amy and Rory, tbh.That's weird.
I want a female doctor, female companion duo
Spectromixer
Member
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
That was a great episode.
I'm suspecting it is true, the way they were talking about it on Radio One just now, pretty sure one of them said "he will be good" rather than "would", or something along those lines. Just sounded like a bit of BBC PR ahead of the actual announcement.
And the more I think about it, the more I think it could be pretty cool. He's a good actor no doubt, and my mind was so prepared for a young male companion that it's a nice shake up with some interesting potential.
paradox121
Member
I'm a Pointless man so I associate tea time quizzes with the elderly and students. But I know The Chase has a weirdly ardent audience.
I think most of my problem is that I've always conflated him with Brian Conley in my mind which significantly drags down his reputation.
I have never seen Law and Order UK, but by all accounts he was extremely solid on there. And he's hilarious on The Chase. Remarkably so for a former footballer.
Would be a hilarious dick move by the BBC to poach Walsh from ITV as well as Chibnall. I don't know much about TV production but I'm fairly sure that shooting Who for eight months a year would make it nigh-on impossible for Walsh to shoot a hundred-odd Chase episodes, no?
The only thing that seems slightly off to me is that, while he doesn't look it, he's only two years younger than Capaldi.
Would be a hilarious dick move by the BBC to poach Walsh from ITV as well as Chibnall. I don't know much about TV production but I'm fairly sure that shooting Who for eight months a year would make it nigh-on impossible for Walsh to shoot a hundred-odd Chase episodes, no?
The only thing that seems slightly off to me is that, while he doesn't look it, he's only two years younger than Capaldi.
The reports I saw said he would be dropping Play To The Whistle (he's a team captain) and Cash Strapped (which has only just started) but keep The Chase. Not sure how well that'll work out but I can understand why he'd want to try and stay on it, it's a huge hit.
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