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Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons
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BossDarkseid
Member
I had this weird dream that a future episode is the Dr chatting to an AI that somehow hates tea and jellybabies and it ends with the AI loving them but also realising the Dr is the son of Omega.
Felt like i was tripping.
Felt like i was tripping.
funkystudent
Member
Was there some backstage turmoil going on in the writers room this season that resulted in 75% of the scripts being total duds?
If we are writing off clara soon at least thats something that should be decent since they will probably try hard not to screw up the exist of a character thats existed for about 4 years.
If we are writing off clara soon at least thats something that should be decent since they will probably try hard not to screw up the exist of a character thats existed for about 4 years.
ChubbleDucks
Member
Kept expecting Reese to say 'What's all this noise, we'll have no trouble here' 'this is a local shop for local people'
Kind of conflicted.
On the one hand, the ending kind of is the episode. It's blatantly obvious Gatiss started from that premise / opportunity to scare the kiddies and then worked back. And it's a fun little twist. I'm annoyed that I didn't see it coming to be honest, considering how I was thinking Rasmussen's plan was a little cliched. Also, it takes my favourite part of Chronicle - the idea of a found footage film as opposed to a "found footage" film - and turns that into a Doctor Who episode.
Characters were good, too, even if they served as little more than fodder.
On the other, making DUST the evil thing...you can't pull that off. I'm sorry. Dust is just an inherently funny word. Hence why it works in that Little Britain sketch. Also, I don't know if it was a budgetary problem or not, but I wasn't a fan of the direction in this episode. Too many shots of the Sandmen, too many shots that just looked like standard Who; if you're going to go for a found-footage episode, commit to it, don't half-arse it. And as has been mentioned above it had waaaaaay too many ideas for a single-parter.
I'm not sure where I'd rank it in the overall scale of the series, tbh, but I think that's more a testament to the quality of the rest of the series than any judgement on this episode's merit.
On the one hand, the ending kind of is the episode. It's blatantly obvious Gatiss started from that premise / opportunity to scare the kiddies and then worked back. And it's a fun little twist. I'm annoyed that I didn't see it coming to be honest, considering how I was thinking Rasmussen's plan was a little cliched. Also, it takes my favourite part of Chronicle - the idea of a found footage film as opposed to a "found footage" film - and turns that into a Doctor Who episode.
Characters were good, too, even if they served as little more than fodder.
On the other, making DUST the evil thing...you can't pull that off. I'm sorry. Dust is just an inherently funny word. Hence why it works in that Little Britain sketch. Also, I don't know if it was a budgetary problem or not, but I wasn't a fan of the direction in this episode. Too many shots of the Sandmen, too many shots that just looked like standard Who; if you're going to go for a found-footage episode, commit to it, don't half-arse it. And as has been mentioned above it had waaaaaay too many ideas for a single-parter.
I'm not sure where I'd rank it in the overall scale of the series, tbh, but I think that's more a testament to the quality of the rest of the series than any judgement on this episode's merit.
paradox121
Member
So, I think that was a bad episode of Doctor Who, and maybe an OK episode of something else. And maybe that was the point? So maybe it succeeded? I still really can't parse it.
Like, I guess on a technical level, the directing was fairly bland, and the writing was uninteresting, and generally everyone just seemed a bit off in the same way that everyone did back in Forest of the Night. But the hook is super interesting. I like any episode that has a meta level that changes its own perception. But then I think the 40 odd minutes to get to that point weren't good enough to justify it.
Weirdly the thing the episode reminds me most of are those little short stories that come in DWMs or the Annuals, like the one Moffat wrote that eventually became Blink. They're normally slightly off kilter, and take a sideways look at the Doctor and companion, and typically have an interesting gimmick that maybe the real show could never do. It feels like that. Padded to a full episode. Which is odd.
Like, I guess on a technical level, the directing was fairly bland, and the writing was uninteresting, and generally everyone just seemed a bit off in the same way that everyone did back in Forest of the Night. But the hook is super interesting. I like any episode that has a meta level that changes its own perception. But then I think the 40 odd minutes to get to that point weren't good enough to justify it.
Weirdly the thing the episode reminds me most of are those little short stories that come in DWMs or the Annuals, like the one Moffat wrote that eventually became Blink. They're normally slightly off kilter, and take a sideways look at the Doctor and companion, and typically have an interesting gimmick that maybe the real show could never do. It feels like that. Padded to a full episode. Which is odd.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
That was a weird episode. Liked the style. The ending was creepy and sinister as fuck. It was a dark episode.
And it amounted to... nothing? Hm.
And it amounted to... nothing? Hm.
Dr Zhivago
Member
Surprised how many people have been thrown by a mildly ambiguous ending.
I also loved the meta aspect- Rasmussen's plan is basically to make an episode of Doctor Who.
I do agree though that the series hasn't been at its strongest recently. I'm starting to think that taking a year off might be a good idea.
I also loved the meta aspect- Rasmussen's plan is basically to make an episode of Doctor Who.
I do agree though that the series hasn't been at its strongest recently. I'm starting to think that taking a year off might be a good idea.
With the Doctor going on with "this doesn't make sense" and the static popping up, I thought it would reveal that Clara was still dreaming in that Morpheus machine so she would need to wake up or that the other's were also in the Morpheus like Clara and the only to wake up is to die. So they were dying one by one but also waking up. Guess it would be a bit too similar to the Christmas special with the aliens that put people to sleep.
After sleeping on it, I've decided I still liked it, but the ending doesn't work, since they pull the actual explanation for the Sandmen out of nowhere. Blink's ending works because the entire thing is about not turning your back on regular statues, so it can create a real life paranoia. In this one, it's still confusing where the monsters actually come from, so him popping up at the end to say he tricked us and now we're all going to turn into one is more confusing than scary. Like, I thought they appeared from people not sleeping, but now they appear if you watch this video? I do like the idea that he orchestrated everything to fool the audience, but it could have been much better.
ClivePwned
Member
If you took away the found footage aspect (which added very little), it reminded me of the first part of the underwater base earlier in the season.
I do agree, the season has lacked truly great stories (though I'd say the first two episodes and the 2nd part of the Zygon story were very good. Even this week's disappointment doesn't which was marred by the silliness of the threat- we'll have an alien slug that turns out to be Hitler next, oh wait that's been done by another show- and it was mostly dull with very little sparkle to it, Gatiss scripts often sparkle. So the episode's worst crime is not that's outright bad, it's just incredibly boring to watch.
Still, it wasn't as rage-inducing as the end of Kill the Moon or all of In The Forest. So last year was higher highs and lower lows. This year has been more consistent with this week being the notable downward blip on the quality graph.
I do agree, the season has lacked truly great stories (though I'd say the first two episodes and the 2nd part of the Zygon story were very good. Even this week's disappointment doesn't which was marred by the silliness of the threat- we'll have an alien slug that turns out to be Hitler next, oh wait that's been done by another show- and it was mostly dull with very little sparkle to it, Gatiss scripts often sparkle. So the episode's worst crime is not that's outright bad, it's just incredibly boring to watch.
Still, it wasn't as rage-inducing as the end of Kill the Moon or all of In The Forest. So last year was higher highs and lower lows. This year has been more consistent with this week being the notable downward blip on the quality graph.
APZonerunner
Member
Spoilers for Christmas and what the River/12 relationship will be like via a UK newspaper
Despite her shock festive return, Doctor Who , played by Peter Capaldi, still faces being lonely this Christmas because River doesnt recognise his new reincarnation and keeps romancing other fellas.
The lovelorn Timelord ends up chasing River around the universe in a vain bid to to win over her affections.
Show-runner Steven Moffat admitted that the Christmas special wasnt very festive - but thered be lots of kissing and flirting as Doctor Who turns into a saucy romcom.
Peter said: It is a lighthearted fun thing River doesnt recognise the Doctor and he gets upset because she is flirting and doing all sort of stuff with people.
She simply cannot be persuaded that he is the former Matt Smith/David Tennant/Christopher Eccleston - so there is lots of kissing, but not between River and the doctor!
The lovelorn Timelord ends up chasing River around the universe in a vain bid to to win over her affections.
Show-runner Steven Moffat admitted that the Christmas special wasnt very festive - but thered be lots of kissing and flirting as Doctor Who turns into a saucy romcom.
Peter said: It is a lighthearted fun thing River doesnt recognise the Doctor and he gets upset because she is flirting and doing all sort of stuff with people.
She simply cannot be persuaded that he is the former Matt Smith/David Tennant/Christopher Eccleston - so there is lots of kissing, but not between River and the doctor!
You just know that the Doc will call them "Spunkies".
A little bit of me thinks that it works better if you think of it as something in this universe made to look like an episode of Doctor Who. That makes the ending more satisfying, for me at least. Not sure if that was actually Gatiss's goal, given the talk of a potential sequel, but it works for me.
If you take the episode the way I like to, the actual explanation for the Sandmen is foreshadowed by all the things that, well, aren't explained; enough of a mystery (and mysteries upon mysteries) to ensure the viewer keeps watching. It's a shaggy dog story intended for the viewer to be strung along for long enough for the video to do its work.
I like that idea. But as I said above, it's probably not the intent!
Sigh...
Was hoping the tone brought with 12 meant we'll have less of the cartoony River
my guess is that
the doctor is mopey after the death of clara, decides to go and see river to cheer himself up, but she doesn't recognise him
it seems kind of implausible that river doesn't believe he's the doctor though, given that she knows that time lords regenerate
it seems kind of implausible that river doesn't believe he's the doctor though, given that she knows that time lords regenerate
tonysidaway
Member
That does sound like a really lame setup for a Christmas episode, and a waste of Alex Kingston. I'll watch with optimism, anyway. Moffat has never let me down.
For the first 10 minutes I thought, hey this is pretty good. This could finally be a good sci-fi-story in Doctor Who again. But it went horrible.
So many bad elements in this story:
- The sandman song - it already was overused before this episode
- Dumb monster explanation
- How do cameras work?
- Space soldiers who have guns that they don't use and are nothing but afraid AND loud all the time
- Villain who can't really convince anyone of his motive (lol he's just CRAZY i guess)
I'm not complaining for complaining's sake, I used to love this show
So many bad elements in this story:
- The sandman song - it already was overused before this episode
- Dumb monster explanation
- How do cameras work?
- Space soldiers who have guns that they don't use and are nothing but afraid AND loud all the time
- Villain who can't really convince anyone of his motive (lol he's just CRAZY i guess)
I'm not complaining for complaining's sake, I used to love this show
I couldn't even be bothered to comment on this one, it summed up how I'd been feeling about this series in general - just very messy, without a clear idea of what it was doing.
I think it's been quite a big step-down from series 8, and the exact opposite of what was needed. After the Doctor's self-doubt, and the conflict with Clara, it just needed a solid run of episodes with Clara getting increasingly reckless leading to her departure. It should have all been in place.
Instead it's been all over the shop, with weak stories that didn't need or properly make use of 2-parters, no consistent tone or character development, the highs being just a couple of individual scenes rather than the stories or episodes themselves, and it's running out of episodes to salvage it.
Just a complete mess, and a year off really doesn't seem like a bad idea now. Looking forward to the next episode and Rigsy being back, as I think he was a good character and an interesting dynamic with both Clara and the Doctor, but man they dropped the ball with this series after the promise of the last one.
I think it's been quite a big step-down from series 8, and the exact opposite of what was needed. After the Doctor's self-doubt, and the conflict with Clara, it just needed a solid run of episodes with Clara getting increasingly reckless leading to her departure. It should have all been in place.
Instead it's been all over the shop, with weak stories that didn't need or properly make use of 2-parters, no consistent tone or character development, the highs being just a couple of individual scenes rather than the stories or episodes themselves, and it's running out of episodes to salvage it.
Just a complete mess, and a year off really doesn't seem like a bad idea now. Looking forward to the next episode and Rigsy being back, as I think he was a good character and an interesting dynamic with both Clara and the Doctor, but man they dropped the ball with this series after the promise of the last one.
I wouldn't say it's been a bad season, just a lot of episodes that could have used one more rewrite that could have taken them to classic/great/good episodes. We've ended up getting great/good/meh.
There's also no season character arc at this point for the Doctor or Clara. The Doctor and Clara pretty much have the same relationship and are the same characters that they were at the end of Series 8.
You don't always need to have an overarching storyline for the whole year but you certainly want your characters to progress. I don't think the "hybrid" thing will make up for that even if it's really good, but we'll see.
There's also no season character arc at this point for the Doctor or Clara. The Doctor and Clara pretty much have the same relationship and are the same characters that they were at the end of Series 8.
You don't always need to have an overarching storyline for the whole year but you certainly want your characters to progress. I don't think the "hybrid" thing will make up for that even if it's really good, but we'll see.
Exterminieren
Banned
I'm having a great time at the Doctor Who Festival, but dear god they should stop doing audience Q&As. Cringing myself inside out. D:
I am continually impressed by anyone willingly submitting to do audience Q&A.
AHA-Lambda
Member
This is a joke right? Please tell me this is a joke.
Red Arremer
Member
This episode was insanely uninteresting, partly by virtue of just too much stuff happening, but it all is boring stuff, and the explanations of the monsters being really lackluster, and the execution was really hamfisted as well.
Not a fan at all. It felt like a two-parter shoved into one episode but all the actually important parts being cut out for shots of the goofy-looking Sandmen and "character development" for the throwaway soldiers.
Also, I really don't like found footage stuff.
Not a fan at all. It felt like a two-parter shoved into one episode but all the actually important parts being cut out for shots of the goofy-looking Sandmen and "character development" for the throwaway soldiers.
Also, I really don't like found footage stuff.
After rewatching the first six episodes I firmly believe the "Doctor has already seen Clara die" thing is true and is the season arc.
There's at least one scene per episode that strongly hints the Doctor has already seen something terrible befall her and a lot of things that he says, plus the way Capaldi acts the scenes, seems inappropriate in the episode context the first time you watch it but makes perfect sense when you keep in mind that the Doctor has already seen her die.
Well he did pretty much immediately look into Clara's eyes as soon as she came out of the pod. With the ambiguous ending (did the transmission get out, how many saw it?), it could be one explanation.
One I would consider silly, but possible.
no he mentions people dying and he singles out clara when he's talking
For the first 10 minutes I thought, hey this is pretty good. This could finally be a good sci-fi-story in Doctor Who again. But it went horrible.
So many bad elements in this story:
- The sandman song - it already was overused before this episode
- Dumb monster explanation
- How do cameras work?
- Space soldiers who have guns that they don't use and are nothing but afraid AND loud all the time
- Villain who can't really convince anyone of his motive (lol he's just CRAZY i guess)
I'm not complaining for complaining's sake, I used to love this show
The villain was a sandman. His motive was to create more of his species.
EDIT: What does being loud have to do with it? The sandmen most likely aren't really blind.
Exterminieren
Banned
I say that, but the cast Q&A was lovely.
Maybe the answer is asking the kids, not the visibly angry middle-aged men.
Maybe the answer is asking the kids, not the visibly angry middle-aged men.
"I'd like to ask Steven Moffat why he isn't dead yet?"
Anyway, good news from Gatiss : http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015...a-sequel-planned-to-doctor-whos-sleep-no-more
WadiumArcadium
Member
I didn't love it but apart from Capaldi's speech last week, I enjoyed it a lot more than the two-parter. The ending was...unexpected.
Exterminieren
Banned
You joke, but one very angry guy in our writer's Q&A asked him why he thought Doctor Who fans were idiots because he couldn't say there wasn't a full series next year.
WrenchNinja
Member
That was a weird ass episode. I kind of dug it though. Really reminded me of Dead Space. Dude was straight up acting like those Unitologists wanting to spread the Necromorphs and marker signal. In this case it's a crazy scientist trying to spread sandmen through electrical signals.
How many "if you had the TARDIS, where would you go?" questions were asked?
ClivePwned
Member
welp, my sleep dust tried to kill me last night. O Why have we forsaken you Gatiss?!