Doctor Who Series 9 |OT| Let Zygons Be Zygons

Absolutely loved that the montage style bit in the back end used the same melody as when the three Doctors realize how they can save Gallifrey; it's a lovely bit of musical thematic linking, much like how Gold decided to have the Eleventh Doctor's final triumphant moments set not to his own theme, but to a passage from the 10th Doctor's theme, because River died to that same passage.
 
Kind of fun, but similar gotchas to last week's IMO. They set stupid rules, gotta stick with them.

All rooms reset - entirely pointless rule, and doesn't actually affect the teleporter (you could have juggled with the buffer or something). But that's what they said. Except diamond room apparantly doesn't reset.

Also, if it were diamond, I don't care how hard you punch, nothing is going to happen, why not just make it Quartz or rock or something that would still take millions of years to punch through? And use the heel of your fucking shoe you muppet.

Lastly - if it took him 2 billion years to get through, then he'd be diving out of the window onto a very high pile of his skulls. They'd have long since risen out of the water.


Still, we get it, he is really determined (even though as he doesn't seem to remember each hardly purgatory. Rory still owns the 'doing something for a long time' record in my book)
 
Really liked this episode best of the season,
i saw it was a loop really early on and was worried where it was going, till it clicked what he was doing slowly chipping away at the wall.

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That's a great episode, it has that Escher, Borges, Calvino vibe. About 20 seconds in I was thinking aha, Moon!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_(film)

And that's exactly the key.

I swear the sound effects of Doctor Who's imagination are cribbed from Quake.

Immediate remarks:

1. This will probably be nominated for a Hugo and will win.

2. Did anybody else who loves Pratchett get a Strata flashback from the way the Death character collapses in a shower of cogs?

3. They're all back, the whole batshit insane menagerie. And Donald Sumpter is playing the most batshit of the lot.
 
JoeM86 said:
A friend just made a good point

The Doctor said "The hybrid is me". Potentially some wordplay there by Moffat, obviously referring to Ashildr a.k.a. "Me"

Unless it's the whole "half-human on my mother's side" stuff.
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Yep. The "Two Warrior Races" is probably referring to Humans and the Mire, aka,
Ashildr
The fact
that she is in the next episode
solidifies this idea for me.


Anyway, this episode was brilliant, but I feel like it could have been trimmed down somewhat. I figured out the whole looping thing pretty much straight away as soon as I saw the bloody hand at the start, so for me personally, it dragged. Though I thought the diamond wall thing was pretty clever and the whole thing taking place within the confession dial.

Next episode should be interesting, damn those Time Lords.
 
godelsmetric said:
the way that i called it weeks ago, ugh my power

also, 'nothing is half dalek'

latest
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DrForester said:
Doctor just retconed that episode out of existence. That's why we love Capaldi.
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In fairness, what he says ties with that episode precisely - he says nothing is half Dalek, the Daleks would never allow it; they didn't. The Cult thought outside the box, and then three of the four of them were so disgusted with the end result that they clapped him in chains as a pet and then killed him! That's the point... they didn't allow it! The same can be true of how the RTD and Moffat eras have treated Davros - he's never the boss of the Daleks, but they keep him around as a pet and a curio because he created them, but to them he is still impure as he's still so much Kaled.
 
Whelp, that's the first episode I've watched since that one where Clara hid under child Doctors bed and was retconed into being responsible for yet more of his life.

Has it been this dull and dreary the entire time? I mean it wasn't a bad episode, a solid 7/10, but it was just so lifeless and uninspiring. Where's the uplifting optimism and colour gone?

Eh, at least Clara was barely in it, even if she was annoyingly saving the Doctor from beyond the grave.

The ending was interesting. Hopefully it won't end up with Clara somehow solving everything though.

Also, why wasn't he using his sonic screwdriver? Left it somewhere, or has it been lamely dropped from the show?
 
Just though I'd something... If the doctor left his clothes by the fire for the next version after jumping into the water... Does that mean that the very first Doctor walked around naked?
 
Allowing yourself to be killed a few trillion times just so a future copy of you can have revenge, especially when you have the opportunity each time to just confess and be free at once. That's some goddamn resolve.
 
anyone else think capaldi sounded a lot like tom baker at times?

specifically during the latter half of the episode, had a similar cadence to tom
 
mrklaw said:
Rory still owns the 'doing something for a long time' record in my book)
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Love the centurion!

Captain Jack did a slightly longer period continually dying and coming back to life in a small space, but that was in Torchwood and, frankly, RTD owes Michael Moorcock a bit for basically nicking Karl Glogauer's gig as (a particular example of) JC.

Jack clung to the outside of the TARDIS at the start of the Series 3 finale, but it's pretty hard to say how long that actually counted as.
 
Quick question, is it implied that the Clara painting was made by an earlier version of the Doctor and that's why it was so old?

If so why wouldn't it have been removed when the room reset?

Ozium said:
anyone else think capaldi sounded a lot like tom baker at times?
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I actually did have that thought at one point when he was standing atop the tower.
 
tonysidaway said:
Love the centurion!

Captain Jack did a slightly longer period continually dying and coming back to life in a small space, but that was in Torchwood and, frankly, RTD owes Michael Moorcock a bit for basically nicking Karl Glogauer's gig as (a particular example of) JC.

Jack clung to the outside of the TARDIS at the start of the Series 3 finale, but it's pretty hard to say how long that actually counted as.
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This has just reminded me of that bit of Torchwood where because they can't kill him they encase Jack in concrete alive, and I still find that to be one of the most harrowing things Who (or its extended universe) has done..
 
Me would make more sense as the hybrid since it would give more meaning to the Doctor's random observations of hybrids throughout the series.
 
Real Hero said:
This wasn't dull or dreary at all though
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I found it extremely so. I mean it had good tension and drama, but I just didn't find it particularly exciting or endearing. I still enjoyed it though, just didn't think it was great.

I stopped watching because it got far too Clara centric and dark for my taste. I like Doctor Who for it's colourful, optimistic, adventurous, humorous, camp whimsy, which this had none of.

Perhaps I just jumped back in at a particularly grim point, and the rest has been more bright and breezy, with a better colour palette?
 
Stilton Disco said:
I found it extremely so. I mean it had good tension and drama, but I just didn't find it particularly exciting or endearing.

I stopped watching because it got far too Clara centric and dark for my taste. I like Doctor Who for it's colourful, optimistic, adventurous, camp whimsy, which this had none of.

Perhaps I just jumped back in at a particularly grim point, and the rest has been more bright and breezy, with a better colour palette?
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You did jump in at a bad point if you wanted the adventurous and whimsy elements. A companion the Doctor has had for over 800 years of his life, his best friend, just died so it was going to be bleak.
 
I assume the hybrid is Doctor Who himself. The Dalek hybrid isn't plausible, and we already know about Doctor Who's mother from the film.

Can we have Claire Bloom back again, please?
 
JoeM86 said:
You did jump in at a bad point if you wanted the adventurous and whimsy elements. A companion the Doctor has had for over 800 years of his life, his best friend, just died so it is going to be bleak.
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True. I guess I shouldn't expect The Doctor to be as happy about that as I was.
 
Newlove said:
Damn, I dipped out at episode 4 and was hoping to catch up but they only have 6 onwards on iPlayer.
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Five is fairly lightweight: The Girl who Died. It's essentially Robot of Sherwood with Hagar the Horrible-style Vikings, except Maisie Williams' character dies while they're all fighting off the Big Bad. Doctor Who then remembers that his current regeneration's face is to remind him of the time he saved a family from the eruption of Pompeii. So he gives Ashildr (played by Maisie) some kind of immortality McGuffin, and an extra dose for a chosen companion. You've got episode six onwards so you can figure out the rest for yourself.
 
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This just felt like a meticulously crafted episode in every single way. There have been better episodes, and there are probably things more suited to being Doctor Who, but this was just a damn unique, compelling piece of television.

Play this back to back with Sleep No More and it's like night and day. Although like Sleep No More they should probably never do this again. In a good way though!

Can Rachel Talalay just stick around and direct everything ever please?
 
I would say my only complaint about today's episode is the hybrid being the Doctor just seems way too easy and doesn't really justify him being silent on the matter. Perhaps next week's episode will justify it more, though. Great episode all round
 
Jackpot said:
No, it was one of the things placed by the Confession Dial that tipped off the Doctor that it was a prison made just for him.
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A follow up question, why would it be trying to tip him off? It's his prison...

I wouldn't be surprised if I've completely missed the point of the dial and it's already been explained in a previous episode. I thought it was just stated to be a last will and testament thing.
 
MrBadger said:
I would say my only complaint about today's episode is the hybrid being the Doctor just seems way too easy and doesn't really justify him being silent on the matter. Perhaps next week's episode will justify it more, though. Great episode all round
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It probably isn't him ;)
 
MrBadger said:
I would say my only complaint about today's episode is the hybrid being the Doctor just seems way too easy and doesn't really justify him being silent on the matter. Perhaps next week's episode will justify it more, though. Great episode all round
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It is him, and it isn't him. i.e.
the valeyard
 
paradox121 said:
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This just felt like a meticulously crafted episode in every single way. There have been better episodes, and there are probably things more suited to being Doctor Who, but this was just a damn unique, compelling piece of television.

Play this back to back with Sleep No More and it's like night and day. Although like Sleep No More they should probably never do this again. In a good way though!

Can Rachel Talalay just stick around and direct everything ever please?
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I think you hit the nail on the head there. It wasn't my favourite episode of Doctor Who but I do really admire it. Not something I expected out of Doctor Who (or television in in general for that matter) nor something I'd normally want out of Who, but that's what makes it so effective. Very well made.
 
Just caught the whole thing. Overall

- Excellent one man show by Capaldi

- Very dark: not just 'hide behind the sofa for scary bit'. Thematically and emotionally tiring to watch but satisfying.

- The high council of Gallifrey and Gallifrey in general I've found to be complete bollocks in the past. I'm sorry, but the only time I like it is when it serves as backstory for the Doctor. To see the culmination of a billion years and a great episode end up looking at that crap city skyline, downer for me

- Going to be one of the most divisive of NuWho episodes. I suspect most of the Who fanbase will err to like it, but the casual family audiences who are still here are going to say 'nope'
 
Holy shit that was a fantastic episode, like, right up there in my top five since NuWho returned. Fantastic direction, stunning performance by Capaldi, everything was just daaamn.
 
Anyway I think it goes without saying whoever wrote the official synopses for these episodes and let them go out unedited needs to be fucking shot.

I'm imagining how amazing the ending of this episode would have been without knowing Galifey was coming back.
 
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