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Doctor Who Series Seven |OT| The Question You've Been Running From All Your Life

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V

Ventilaator

Banned
I don't want the Time Lords back, I want to see the story where a new group of people shows up and proclaims themselves to be the new Time Lords.

Because that could be cool.
 
E

EleventhDoctor

Banned
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F

Future Foundation

Member
Ithil said:
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imhb6QETGQAAI.gif


This?
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Gillan + Raphael = <333333

KibblesBits said:
Moffat interview:




SMH, when is he leaving the show? Tired of the, "woe is me I'm so lonely." Doctor. A great and compelling story would have the Doctor chasing after some Time Lords who survived and are so fearful of him they keep running from him. That would activate some feels.
Click to expand...

Blame Davies. The one who, y'know, is actually responsible for killing the Time Lords.

Leave 'em dead.
 
K

KibblesBits

Member
V_Arnold said:
To be honest, I am hoping that at this point he is just straight up lying. Because what is a better point to bring back at least some of the Time Lords than now?
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Now is the perfect time, especially given that the NotDoctor will be around. It would really hammer in the whole, "Oops, I fucked up and now I've become worse than the lot of them." Time Lords running from the Doctor, especially former friends would cause massive feels.

The Adder said:
RTD was the one who killed them. Twice, in fact. If you want someone to blame, blame him. Moffat's just choosing not to retcon his predecessor on this.
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RTD may have killed them off, but Moffat, has always been resistant to classic Who stuff. When you have a wealth of material to work with and willfully ignore it it seems like a waste. Especially when things can be updated and made fresh.

Future Foundation said:
Blame Davies. The one who, y'know, is actually responsible for killing the Time Lords.

Leave 'em dead.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying the Time Lords should come back as an antagonist for the Doctor. But a storyline where they actually are like doing things, and constantly on the run from the Doctor who wants to reconcile perhaps could have great potential.
Maybe they're trying to find a new home and live quietly.
Maybe they're trying to find some energy for a new TARDIS model.
Maybe they're fleeing from a powerful enemy AND the Doctor...
Plenty of things to explore.

And with Moffat at the helm it seems like ANY nods to classic Who are like getting teeth pulled instead of the treats and winks to older fans that they should be.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Moffat has had far, far more nods to Classic Who than Davies did. This is the man who brought the Great Intelligence back and made him the Big Bad of series 7.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
KibblesBits said:
What was that? One? List more. My memory is failing me.
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The Name of the Doctor. All of it.
The Ice Warriors.
Cybermats.
Silurians.
The Minotaur in The God Complex being linked to the Nimon.
All of the races in The Pandorica Opens.
Classic Daleks appearing in the Asylum, with many references to planets from previous Dalek stories.
The faces of the Doctor appearing multiple times, with classic series clips being included in The Eleventh Hour.
The Eye of Harmony in Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS.

Moffat prefers introducing new monsters and concepts, but let's not pretend that there haven't been many references. Davies took more than two series to even mention Gallifrey by name.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
Well, for what it's worth, modern Who was always going to filter in classic Who elements more and more as it goes along. But yes, Moffat has done well by old Who (besides shoving Clara in 1's escape from Gallifrey, that's still dumb).
 
K

KibblesBits

Member
Exterminieren said:
The Name of the Doctor. All of it.
The Ice Warriors.
Cybermats.
Silurians.
The Minotaur in The God Complex being linked to the Nimon.
All of the races in The Pandorica Opens.
Classic Daleks appearing in the Asylum, with many references to planets from previous Dalek stories.
The faces of the Doctor appearing multiple times, with classic series clips being included in The Eleventh Hour.

Moffat prefers introducing new monsters and concepts, but let's not pretend that there haven't been many references. Davies took more than two series to even mention Gallifrey by name.
Click to expand...

That's better but it's still not enough for me. NOT ENOUGH!
MORE Classic nods. GIMME MOFFAT!
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Hot Coldman said:
Well, for what it's worth, modern Who was always going to filter in classic Who elements more and more as it goes along. But yes, Moffat has done well by old Who (besides shoving Clara in 1's escape from Gallifrey, that's still dumb).
Click to expand...
Absolutely true, and I'll always believe that Davies' policy of dripfeeding the audience bits of mythology and references was exceptionally well-handled and important to the show's continued wellbeing. All I'm saying is that this narrative of Moffat unduly neglecting the show's past really is based on nothing.

KibblesBits said:
That's better but it's still not enough for me. NOT ENOUGH!
MORE Classic nods. GIMME MOFFAT!
Click to expand...

I'm unsure how you add in more Classic stuff than The Name of the Doctor had without turning it into a straight up clipshow, honestly.
 
K

KibblesBits

Member
Exterminieren said:
But you were calling for a higher quantity just a single post ago.

What constitutes a "quality" reference? Why is such a thing important?
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I feel frequency is more important than quantity. They are not the same thing in this instance, and if I didn't properly explain myself then please forgive me.

Quality is shown in how the situations with the Silurians, Martians and Great Intelligence were handled... for the most part.

Just having random things show up to do a one liner is a waste.
 
E

Exterminieren

Banned
Again, I really can't see how the writer of The Name of the Doctor, which is easily the most self-referential episode of Doctor Who right to its core ever put on screen, can be accused of superficial references, and I don't see how this is relevant to your earlier claim that Moffat should be going because he doesn't respect the Time Lords, or that any references he makes at all seem begrudging.
 
K

KibblesBits

Member
Exterminieren said:
Again, I really can't see how the writer of The Name of the Doctor, which is easily the most self-referential episode of Doctor Who right to its core ever put on screen, can be accused of superficial references, and I don't see how this is relevant to your earlier claim that Moffat should be going because he doesn't respect the Time Lords, or that any references he makes at all seem begrudging.
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Ok.
We disagree. That was simple.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Killing the Time Lords and freeing the show of all that utter wank is the best of many great things RTD did. Leave them dead.

I'd say the number of references is about equal, really. Moffat's have been more heavily laid in from the word go, but he didn't have the delicate two/three series push in to the lore RTD had.
 
E

EleventhDoctor

Banned
APZonerunner said:
Killing the Time Lords and freeing the show of all that utter wank is the best of many great things RTD did. Leave them dead.

I'd say the number of references is about equal, really. Moffat's have been more heavily laid in from the word go, but he didn't have the delicate two/three series push in to the lore RTD had.
Click to expand...


I agree. time Lords are dumb. Stupid head gear. But the machine shop scene in Gallifrey was AWESOME.
 
E

EleventhDoctor

Banned
Hot Coldman said:
Well, for what it's worth, modern Who was always going to filter in classic Who elements more and more as it goes along. But yes, Moffat has done well by old Who (besides shoving Clara in 1's escape from Gallifrey, that's still dumb).
Click to expand...

I kind of agree-it's "dumb" but I still loved it-and how she rescued Seven from his "cliffhanger".
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Interestingly, Moffat does describe himself as having a particularly strong attachment to old Who canon, even though he hates the 6th/7th/8th Doctor eras. He described himself at one point as being "physically unable to contradict" anything established as canon in old Who, even if it was rubbish. He was basically saying on a panel thing years ago - right as he was preparing to take over - that he wouldn't have dared shatter the canon with things like the Time War himself, even though it was what was needed.

So it's no surprise he's been a bit more reverent, I think. He clearly has a lot of love, and a lot of respect for the lore of even the bits he didn't care for.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
APZonerunner said:
Interestingly, Moffat does describe himself as having a particularly strong attachment to old Who canon, even though he hates the 6th/7th/8th Doctor eras. He described himself at one point as being "physically unable to contradict" anything established as canon in old Who, even if it was rubbish. He was basically saying on a panel thing years ago - right as he was preparing to take over - that he wouldn't have dared shatter the canon with things like the Time War himself, even though it was what was needed.
Click to expand...

And yet he messes with his own excellent contribution with the canon for the sake of making Clara "more special" :/

(yes, I've heard the arguments for how you can reconcile stuff with The Doctor's Wife. it still doesn't sit right with me)
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
Wait a second. How does that reconcile anything?

I mean...stuff happens, then timestreams changes. He had one journey, which got changed once the GI/Clara entered the timestream. Events previous to that still happened, even if the details are being changed "as of now" (if the 50th happens to be withing the Doc's timestream.)
 
E

EleventhDoctor

Banned
V_Arnold said:
Wait a second. How does that reconcile anything?

I mean...stuff happens, then timestreams changes. He had one journey, which got changed once the GI/Clara entered the timestream. Events previous to that still happened, even if the details are being changed "as of now" (if the 50th happens to be withing the Doc's timestream.)
Click to expand...

But why did she have to tell The Doctor what TARDIS to get in when he had always gotten in the right one?
 
B

Bluth54

Member
Blader said:
I've got no problem with Moffat's Time Lord ban. I think they're pretty stupid and take away some of the uniqueness of the Doctor.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with the Time Lord ban either, though with the exception that I would like to see the Master return.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Bluth54 said:
I have no problem with the Time Lord ban either, though with the exception that I would like to see the Master return.
Click to expand...

I think maybe one or two would be fine; The Master, obviously, will show up eventually - but Moffat doesn't like the character so it'll probably be with the next showrunner. As shit as she was originally, The Rani could have a decent reboot as an antagonist as well, somewhere down the line.

The whole society and Gallifrey itself should stay completely gone, however.
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
EleventhDoctor said:
But why did she have to tell The Doctor what TARDIS to get in when he had always gotten in the right one?
Click to expand...

Dunno, cause that felt convenient when putting the montage together? I mean...yeah, the devil is in the details, but it felt right to have her intervene at the very first moment, even if she did not exactly push the doctor there to one direction or another.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
V_Arnold said:
Dunno, cause that felt convenient when putting the montage together? I mean...yeah, the devil is in the details, but it felt right to have her intervene at the very first moment, even if she did not exactly push the doctor there to one direction or another.
Click to expand...

Felt a little bitter coming off the Doctor's Wife, though, with the whole "she chose me" thing.
 
T

The Adder

Banned
EleventhDoctor said:
But why did she have to tell The Doctor what TARDIS to get in when he had always gotten in the right one?
Click to expand...

Because the GI left a different one unlocked? Or hid his TARDIS? Or caused there to be more pressure on his escaping than there had originally been resulting in him breaking into one earlier in the line instead of finding the unlocked one? Or all three?

Clara, if you will recall, wasn't changing things in The Doctor's past. She was fixing things the GI had already altered.
 
E

EleventhDoctor

Banned
The Adder said:
Because the GI left a different one unlocked? Or hid his TARDIS? Or caused there to be more pressure on his escaping than there had originally been resulting in him breaking into one earlier in the line instead of finding the unlocked one? Or all three?

Clara, if you will recall, wasn't changing things in The Doctor's past. She was fixing things the GI had already altered.
Click to expand...

You're right! I accept that.

Can we also assume The Great Intelligence made Seven randomly decide to hang off a railing?
 
M

mclem

Member
EleventhDoctor said:
You're right! I accept that.

Can we also assume The Great Intelligence made Seven randomly decide to hang off a railing?
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Given it's Seven, that was probably part of *some* plan that wouldn't actually become apparent ever, but was critical. Maybe disturbing the ice wall there cause a bug to land elsewhere instead causing an imperceptible tremor which woke up a bat who pooped randomly on a key spot on the floor making a guard slip over given Ace a fraction of a second longer to get away.

That's his sort of shtick. DO NOT ARGUE WITH THE INEFFABLE PLAN.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
wetflame said:
NTSF:SD:SUV::. It's an Adult Swim show parodying NCIS, CSI and 24, mostly. It's good stuff.
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Still not sure if Karen fits on the show at all (she's mostly playing herself, whereas Paul Scheer et al ham it up to high fucking heaven), but it's nice seeing her on something every week post-Who at least.

Can't wait to see her in Guardians of the Galaxy, of course.
 
T

Trike

Member
APZonerunner said:
Interestingly, Moffat does describe himself as having a particularly strong attachment to old Who canon, even though he hates the 6th/7th/8th Doctor eras. He described himself at one point as being "physically unable to contradict" anything established as canon in old Who, even if it was rubbish. He was basically saying on a panel thing years ago - right as he was preparing to take over - that he wouldn't have dared shatter the canon with things like the Time War himself, even though it was what was needed.

So it's no surprise he's been a bit more reverent, I think. He clearly has a lot of love, and a lot of respect for the lore of even the bits he didn't care for.
Click to expand...

Why would you say that? He almost wrote Doctor Who stories for the Big Finish audio dramas, but dropped out when Paul McGann hadn't signed up yet. It was the only doctor he wanted to write for.
 
G

Goldrush

Member
The Adder said:
Because the GI left a different one unlocked? Or hid his TARDIS? Or caused there to be more pressure on his escaping than there had originally been resulting in him breaking into one earlier in the line instead of finding the unlocked one? Or all three?

Clara, if you will recall, wasn't changing things in The Doctor's past. She was fixing things the GI had already altered.
Click to expand...

That's how I understood it as well. The GI altered the timeline so that the Doctor would entered a trap. She just redirected him back to the right one. However, considering that the other Clara existed prior to the Name of the Doctor, I guess that means she was also always there. So...timey-wimey.
 
A

APZonerunner

Member
Trike said:
Why would you say that? He almost wrote Doctor Who stories for the Big Finish audio dramas, but dropped out when Paul McGann hadn't signed up yet. It was the only doctor he wanted to write for.
Click to expand...

I think it was the only one he wanted to write for because McGann was at the time the only relevant one. He's been positively acidic about everything between five and nine in general, though, not just in the link above, but more recently, too.
 
S

Sir_Crocodile

Member
War Games Time Lords were awesome. If they ever get brought back I hope it's the more seemingly mind-power focused TL's from that 2nd doctor saga then the stagnant "machines run everything" TL's of the 4th doctor era.
 
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