deadscreensky
Member
Slowdown in Deathsmiles is missing in some parts in some modes. It's being worked on, it's just taking a while.
I'm not aware of any problems with Mushi.
Dodonpachi DaiFukkatsu coming to Steam and Dangun Feveron PS4 by M2
- Thread starter InfiniteNine
- Start date
Slowdown in Deathsmiles is missing in some parts in some modes. It's being worked on, it's just taking a while.
I'm not aware of any problems with Mushi.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Mushi is mostly alright with some slowdown issues and DeathSmiles has innacurate slowdown in some areas and with death mode enabled. Cave is working on fixing the slowdown issue for DeathSmiles but it's taking longer since the solution on the 360 was hardware dependent and they have to reprogram for it to work with multiple hardware configs instead of just one. Aside from that it's unknown Mega Black Label will be fixed or not on DS since it was never ported accurately on anything.
If you're not too picky about the slowdown they're pretty competent versions.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I forget, did Mushi end up being better or worse than the 360 version.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I seem to remember ranting and raving about a year back about how they need to get on:
1. steam
2. PS4.
Despite the fact that some people explained to me why that couldn't/wouldn't happen, I'm glad to see sanity prevailing.
1. steam
2. PS4.
Despite the fact that some people explained to me why that couldn't/wouldn't happen, I'm glad to see sanity prevailing.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
I don't own the 360 verison so I don't really have a point of reference but maybe someone else knows. I've been pretty satisfied with it after they aggressively patched it although I'm fine with the 360 version of DOJ too.
I think it's mostly fine, but I remember hearing something about slowdown completely missing during the first boss fight in Ultra making it impossible without bombing unlinke the 360/arcade versions? I could be wrong though.
I think most of the people who were against these type of releases wanted them to continue to do premium releases so they could continue to fund new games.
Admittedly I think that model ended up running it's course so just porting the old games and doing mobile/F2P is the way to stay in business now.
I don't think we'll ever get a new game at the same level as they used to put out, if they ever even do another new arcade/arcade style game.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
That's true. These are definitely legacy re-releases, and aren't at the price point/interest level to fund entirely new games.
Maybe people were responding to me using older logic from a more prosperous time for Cave, because I was suggesting Steam/PS4 releases in the era when they were on their deathbed, as a method to stay alive. I suppose that's happening now.
Augemitbutter
Member
DF PS4...my heart can't take this.
please release a limited physical over here if possible. thank you.
please release a limited physical over here if possible. thank you.
professor denim
Member
Dangun!!!!!!
The ports were primarily meant to prime the market for new games and to test whether there was even a paying audience for their games on PC, and in that sense I think they've succeeded. Degica seems happy, at least.
It should also be pointed out that mobile is doing really well for them right now and their current free-to-play mobile shooting game is pretty popular (and it doesn't suck, which is always nice).
The big hurdle standing in the way of a new arcade (or arcade-style) game right now isn't the sales of the ports, it's the fact that most of their arcade team is now working on or servicing their popular mobile game.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Just tried it right now and it has slow down now so I guess that's taken care of. So if you're for accuracy Mushi seems pretty good to pick up now and wait on DS getting patched since they're working on it although it's on sale ATM so you can pick it up for later if you're feeling lucky.
deadscreensky
Member
That would be a super weird thing to leave out of this release, though it's probably DLC (and hence maybe not listed in the features for that reason). Likely included as a bonus for initial purchasers. Mushihimesama offered 1.5 like that, if memory serves, and that mode was way more exclusive than DFK's Black Label variant.
Nice, DDP: Resurrection is the only one I've played (on the 360) iirc but I really liked it so glad to hear it's coming to steam 
edit: didn't know til I looked it up that Resurrection never came out in the US on the 360. Guess this might be some peoples first experience with this one then. (unless you played it on mobile that is anyway)
edit: didn't know til I looked it up that Resurrection never came out in the US on the 360. Guess this might be some peoples first experience with this one then. (unless you played it on mobile that is anyway)
Yes, that's correct. It also had a release on X360 in Europe & was one of the few games that wasn't region locked, meaning you could import it & play an EU copy on an US system (which is what I did). Even cooler, it came with a free arranged soundtrack which was rather decent.
Granted, I'm pretty sure you had to have an EU account to buy the Black Label DLC, but it still worked on US systems & accounts after you bought/downloaded it. Hopefully for Steam users, it'll be more easily available, or even better, included with the game from the get-go.
Yeah, the "Cave should be putting all thier games on Steam/XBL for $10-15 and they are doomed otherwise" was a common argument while they were doing the 360 releases. I think it was a pretty bad idea then, but times have changed and as much as I don't like that, I'm not blind to it and have to accept it.
As it currently stands I think porting the back catalog and mobile is a good fit for the current time, but I cannot imagine they're going to be able to charge full price after devaluing thier back catalog.
The F2P game is better than it has any right to be.
Anyway I don't see the bargin release on Steam being viable for a brand new game and I don't think they can charge a premium for it after these releases. This is why I think sticking with thier old model was a good idea for the most part, although it admittedly seemed to have ran it's course.
Admittedly I'd love to be wrong on this, but time will tell.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'm totally remembering being on the other side of this.
So much ignorance: "Lol 2D shooting games in modern day? Sounds neat but $60 import wtf? Should be budget priced on digital platforms for $10"
Eventually I started suggesting that they actually should be affordable on digital download, because everything is - even AAA games get discounted digital releases. But I got pushback from people who were used to arguing against people saying that 2d shumps should inherently be budget. I get it.
All that said.... I don't think that releasing legacy games at ~$15-20 devalues Cave in general. The fact that WB sold Arkham Asylum for a $5-10 dollar digital sale doesn't mean they won't sell Arkham Knight for $70 when it's new, right?
I do think there is room for a modestly priced digital release that could sustain a full game's development. It's not $70 physical import or nothing. If you released a new Cave game on digital platforms for $20, couldn't it be worthwhile considering the eyeballs on a steam/PS4/Xbone storefront release will probably be far larger than the otaku buying niche 360 games in the late 2000s/early 2010s? Not to mention the long tail of Steam sales/flash sales.
If I were Cave, I'd look into this. And probably combined with their experience working with Degica... they are.
I don't think comparing a new triple A game to an old triple A game is really a valid comparison to comparing one of the more recent Cave shooters to a hypothetical new one. The graphics in the Triple A game are going to have a big difference and the gameplay differences are going to be more apparent, aside from that shooters already have the stigma they should be bargin titles or not exist.
I also don't think this genre really has that much room to grow and even with more eyes on it, it's not going to grow that much, nor are these games going to be distinguishable from budget shooters on Steam or even from each other to most gamers.
We'll see what happens over time but I have little doubt that Cave's glory days are behind them.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yeah that's the safe bet.
But still, I look at the indie space, where Earthbound and Harvest Moon homages sell millions and make bank, where a whole bunch of other quirky, niche titles do quite well for themselves..... are STGs actually a tier below those in sales potential? Are the development costs a tier above those? I have my doubts.
I wish I had hard numbers. It may well be the case that STGs are niche and unprofitable even in a digital environment..... but I dunno. I have this sneaking suspicion that it hasn't even been put to the test.
I think Japanese companies are notoriously poor at transitioning into this space. STGs were once mainstream AAA titles in the 90s. Failing that they'll retreat into otaku-focused sales. Failing that they'll make mobile titles. Couldn't they have cultivated a larger fanbase on digital platforms? Who knows, because a fully staffed Japanese company in the 2010s isn't of the mindset or culture to be willing to try that out.
I can't believe that STGs were such a staple of gaming in the arcade days, but perform below all the other weird niche titles that are profitable today in the digital landscape. Human nature didn't change that much in what they like to play. It's probably just that the STG publishers were ill-fitted to adapt to these digital formats, and unwilling to play with the prices (despite the increased audience potential on budget digital).
Or are they? (re: Device's efforts and what it could imply about future distribution)
Snkfanatic
Banned
Day 1 on both.
thesaucetastic
Unconfirmed Member
Knew about the PC release, didn't know about the PS4 one. Neat! Hope Cave sells a bunch of copies.
djplaeskool
Member
FEVEEEEER
wild wild rice
Member
Any release date on Feveron? Where does it stack up in the hierarchy of other Cave shmups? This is awesome. I was just gonna hook up my 360 for a Cave fix.
sixteen-bit
Member
So cool that Feveron is getting a home port. Will it come to Steam too?
Movalpolos
Banned
Will definitely get the PS4 versions over Steam.
SOME-MIST
Member
if you were in the degica thread you know I'm stoked
it's one of the cave pcbs I own and by far one of my top 5 picks for favorite cave games. now I definitely have to get a ps4.
glad to see the 360 port wasn't entirely scrapped.
it's one of the cave pcbs I own and by far one of my top 5 picks for favorite cave games. now I definitely have to get a ps4.
glad to see the 360 port wasn't entirely scrapped.
SOME-MIST
Member
Just "winter".
Dangun Feveron is unique among Cave games in that it doesn't really follow the typical Cave formula: the scoring system is very straightforward and everything moves really quickly, including bullets, so instead of making tiny movements through huge curtains of bullets you're zooming all over the screen collecting discomen and leading enemy shots all over the screen.
It's still a fun, challenging game but it's tough in a different way to their other games, so it's hard to stack it up against the rest of their library in that sense--don't think of it as bullet hell, think of it as a turbo-charged old-school shmup that happens to have a lot of bullets.
They're different games, so you don't really have a choice in the matter.
The thing is the niche unique games have audiences because they are unique games that fill a demand that is left open. Cave shooters are part of a genre that is unpopular, has tons of games in it and is difficult to stand out in.
Ikaruga and Crimzon Clover were given low prices both put up good numbers from what I recall but nothing really crazy like Undertake or Stardew Valley did, and Ikaruga probably has the best reputation in the entire genre.
You can claim people's taste in games doesn't change that much but I've been around long enough that I've seen lots of genres become the thing then fall heavily from favor.
I think people who are enthusiasts for these games will want them and be willing to pay a premium or at least were, but a mass market is going to view them as being to similar and sales will drop off.
Again, would love to be wrong, but I don't see Cave continuing to make games like they used to with this model.
I've played most of thier shooters and I'd honestly put it about dead last. Having said that it's still a good game and if it's getting one of the special edition releases like the 360 games mostly did I'll drop the cash. It's just not my cup of tea compared to the others.
I'd imagine they will keep porting thier back catalog until they run out of games or it stops being profitable. Keep buying the releases and keep your fingers crossed.
SOME-MIST
Member
it's so good though! it's a very caravan style game and feels different than what most of the genre offers - it strays away from the cookie cutter ikeda games with bogus scoring systems that became a mainstay in the cave catalog. you always have something to do in the game since scoring is dependent on you speed killing/clearing the screen as fast as you can, which spawns more groups of enemies that you wouldn't see otherwise. the speed takes a bit of getting used to (going to other cave games after is hilarious) but it's very intuitive since you're clearing at such a fast rate that enemies don't have a chance to shoot bullets. then you have the different subweapons... and instead of just holding down a button to kill the boss, you actually have to take time and aim your subweapons to destroy the boss weakpoints.
the scoring system is simple but highly interactive. the only downside is that missing a discoman basically ruins your run, but they don't make it too difficult to collect since you have two-passes worth of time to collect. one of the easiest cave games to get into but difficult to master. the pacing is just sooo nailbitingly awesome. It really feels like something from toaplan or a game along the lines of hishozame.
lets not forget one of the best announcers in the genre other than probably armed police batrider.
I might be biased because I've spent a lot of time with my PCB and it's grown on me, but every shmupsmeet I've brought it to, everyone spends a few hours having a blast playing the time attack mode. we've even adopted it as one of the games we use in the scoring contests.
It would have been cool if I could have attended stunfest in france last year to see jaimers tear through dangun feveron in person. his run was pretty intense and he almost unlocked the TLB too.
SmiteOfHand
Member
I think this is a truth with these sorts of games across the board. They are so intricate and require so much dedication that whatever one clicks for you in a real way, for whatever reason, is going to burrow into your cerebellum and hang out there for a good long while. The music, patterns, systems, everything. It is a sickness I welcome completely.
Like I said, it's a good game buy it's not a favorite of mine. As you touched on and someone else stated it breaks from a lot of the usual Cave designs, but since I like a lot of those things like the "bogus scoring systems" it doesn't click with me as much.
Also the disco stuff is wierd, I'm old but not old enough that I lived through disco.
sixteen-bit
Member
Ketsui on PS3 has a tate mode
SOME-MIST
Member
the only catch is that dangun isn't very intricate. it's a pure fast paced shooter with a simple scoring system, but the main aspect you have to adapt to is the ship speed. you can choose slower speeds, but it only hinders your performance since you won't be able to clear enemies fast enough and bullets will start to cover the different lanes/escape routes further forcing you to avoid those instead of zipping side to side destroying enemies.
it's definitely not intricate in the same sense that esgapluda II or dodonpachi is due to the scoring system learning curve.
Wow! Dangun Feveron is the last Cave game I would have guessed!
besides Progear
Esp ra.de I would think would be a long shot too.
Dangun is less of a surprise as there was talk of a port years back.
Man I would really like to be able to buy Progear or Esp ra.de on something other than an arcade board though.
StarCreator
Member
As someone who owns both said arcade boards, I'd buy it too.
SOME-MIST
Member
oh don't get me wrong... I like many of the cave scoring systems... they just don't make any sense. ikeda games scoring typically feel like an afterthought tacked on once the game has been completed. take futari's BL original scoring system (which I really enjoy). using a different shot to kill enemies every 3000 multiplier? okay... I wonder how they arrived at that design choice.
I still have a blast, especially when you crank the overall multiplier to 80k-100k and bullets are almost as fast as dangun feveron, but it doesn't really seem like the games are based around the scoring system first, but survival with a scoring system just thrown together.
lets even take deathsmiles where you have to figure out which enemies to kill with which shot to get the highest scoring crowns, but there's no real indicator which enemies you have to use which shot to produce those. It adds a bit of mysteriousness to the game and forces you to try it over and over again to adapt new strategies to figure out how to score, but it isn't very intuitive and seems a bit random at times.
something like progear is a lot more fun where it isn't really based on scoring integers and it really requires you to build up your rings to the highest quality stone and then cash in via bullet cancelling spreads on top of other enemies. much like dangun feveron, it feels like the game is based around it's scoring system. It's a bit different in progear though since it forces you to actually learn how to score to cancel bullets and create paths that wouldn't be available from playing in a purely survival fashion. plus bullet streaming is so god damn satisfying (primarily in the end of stage 1 and stage 5).
I absolutely adore yagawa-style medal chaining but some of the boss milking and odd scoring decisions (bomb the trees to spawn flamingos and then bomb the flamingos to crank up the score!) can be kind of a turn off.
I get that you're not really a fan, but it's honestly one of my favorites next to progear, ketsui, and ibara.