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[ZeoVGM]

why the **** do people care about this? why is there an almost 8 page thread on one person's opinion? if gamespot and ign give it a bad or even jsut mediocre review, will people still be calling out Parish?

it's probably a) not as great as some people say and you're blinded by nostalgia, and b) not a bad game like Parish thinks

this would make it somewhere in between!

how about you like the game if you like it and stop caring about what some guy in a magazine says?

it could get all 9's and 10's and it would still sell badly in america anyway. really, the high majority of people who ARE going to buy UGnG are not going to change their mind because of game reviews.

 

[Shogun]

God this is pathetic. You should just start a seperate thread where you can take out your hatred for Parish and his review of your childhood.

Skip already said he's trying to figure out whats best to do in terms of PSM. As for 1UP and EGM, thats an established policy, I know it's at least a few months old because I remember looking at an EGM a few months ago and seeing a 1up review.

The reasoning for that policy is pretty clear, to reach people in one medium that you don't in another. Not every gamer has the internet, and the ones that do don't always frequent 1UP. To help spread the 1up brand, and to give a sample of what you will find on 1up, they give one of their three reviews, EGM being the only gaming periodical with three reviews to my knowledge, to a guest 1UP editor. It's standard crossbranding.

Do I think that the PSM review is a good idea? No and neither does skip.
Do I think that the review is right? I don't know as I don't have the game, but based on other peoples opinions, no I think it's a bad review.

That being said quit pissing and moaning about how their is some unfair agenda against your game, and the stupid theory that Ziff Davis is pushing it. The only one who hates your game is Parish.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Thanks to my efforts, the brilliant Cosmic Race has gone down as an abomination! TAKE THAT, INNOVATION!

 

[Robert Ashley]

I think you're missing his point. People were saying this has an effect on sales, people were saying no it doesn't, so he tried posting some sort of evidence that yes, it could potentially have an impact on sales.

OK. So, should people who write about games care that they have an effect on sales?

 

[jgkspsx]

I can say that I hate Super Smash Brothers Melee, but if you asked me to review it, I'd probably give it at 7/10 at least. Why? Because nobody who pays $4.99 for a magazine cares that Drinky f'ing Crow demands that every fighting game play like VF4 and that he utterly despises the Nintendo mascot roster.

Isn't this exactly the reviewing principle that caused the Game Informer Paper Mario 2 scandal a few years back?

 

[vitaflo]

A bad review will lower the rankings at sites like Gamerankings. Three reviews, three times as much. Gameranking's scores are used for large stores, like EB and Bestbuy, to determine how many games will be purchased for the initial run. This will determine how many copies will be in stores.

This is also one of the reasons Game Rankings is destroying the entire gaming review system of every publication. Every person bitching about lopsided review scores and screwed up scoring systems can trace the problem right back to Game Rankings.

Why are games basically only given scores from 6-10? Game Rankings. Why are there no 5 star systems (with no half stars)? Game Rankings. It's the bane of the video game review score system.

 

[-Rogue5-]

OK. So, should people who write about games care that they have an effect on sales?

No. But they should care of potentially robbing a gamer from an experience they may like... Nostalgic or otherwise. The only people getting crapped on from this situation are the subscribers/purchasers of EGM and/or OPM as they're the ones dishing out cash and getting the same viewpoint (paying twice for, essentially, the same thing).

 

[Greenpanda]

why the **** do people care about this? why is there an almost 8 page thread on one person's opinion?

well, if ZD is to be believed, it's actually three peoples' opinion

 

[chespace]

Isn't this exactly the reviewing principle that caused the Game Informer Paper Mario 2 scandal a few years back?

I was kinda thinking the same thing.

Reviewing for a perceived audience rather than for your own likes and dislikes of the game.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Yeah? And now it's causing THIS scandal -- Parish can't eject an apparent personal preference for controllable jumping arcs and diagonal support in his platformers long enough to evaluate the game in its proper context.

 

[Kittonwy]

Isn't this exactly the reviewing principle that caused the Game Informer Paper Mario 2 scandal a few years back?

I think he meant reviewing for the audience based on more objective merits and not just looking at the game from a purely personal standpoint, ultimately whether he enjoys the game or not is purely subjective, but the review isn't intended for Drinky only, but the a broader audience, whether the game is at a certain level of quality tends to be based on more objective criteria.

 

[Shard]

This is also one of the reasons Game Rankings is destroying the entire gaming review system of every publication. Every person bitching about lopsided review scores and screwed up scoring systems can trace the problem right back to Game Rankings.

Why are games basically only given scores from 6-10? Game Rankings. Why are there no 5 star systems (with no half stars)? Game Rankings. It's the bane of the video game review score system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Creep

 

[cheekymunky]

9.5/10 for all your posts in this thread.

 

[kenta]

OK. So, should people who write about games care that they have an effect on sales?

Again you're missing the point. The people are upset because a game that they feel is great and likewise deserves great sales now has the potential to sell much more poorly because of one person combined with (what some would consider) an oversight by Ziff-Davis and/or the 1UP Network.

I don't think it has anything to do with what a reviewer should or shouldn't keep in mind when reviewing a game, but it sounds like you're trying to trap me so I'll just drop it

No. But they should care of potentially robbing a gamer from an experience they may like... Nostalgic or otherwise.

Now this I disagree with. He wrote his opinion and that's what we expect of him.

 

[-Rogue5-]

9.5/10 for all your posts in this thread.

ONLY 9.5? 9.65 AT LEAST.

 

[Zenith]

I probably should have said "as much as possible, while still retaining their own unique identities and strengths."

You still have yet to say how they will do this.

 

[Robert Ashley]

Yeah? And now it's causing THIS scandal -- Parish can't eject an apparent personal preference for controllable jumping arcs and diagonal support in his platformers long enough to evaluate the game in its proper context.

That's total nonsense. You can't evaluate anything outside your own perception of it. If you can't stand the way it handles, you don't enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, you say so.

 

[-Rogue5-]

Seriously. Who the hell would subscribe to both OPM and EGM? Any tech dinosaur that has 2 mag subs and counts on only those opinions to spend his money has bigger problems than missing out on whatever game started this discussion in the first place.

The same person that wouldn't notice that both reviews were written by the same person and hence think three different places think the game is garbage.

 

[UncleGuito]

BURN THE WITCH!!!!

Spoiler

this whole fiasco reminded me of the holy grain for some reason.

 

[Drinky Crow]

That's total nonsense. You can't evaluate anything outside your own perception of it. If you can't stand the way it handles, you don't enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, you say so.

Awesome. I *hate* the DS touchscreen! Now I'm justified in giving EVERY DS touchscreen game at LEAST a 4/10! (I'm gonna LOVE reviewing Wii games.)

****, I hate the controls in Madden games, too! They're completely overengineered and counterintuitive, even if they are ARE all built on a set of accepted controls for that game series! 4/10!

(you people just walk into this.)

 

[Ponn]

Seriously. Who the hell would subscribe to both OPM and EGM? Any tech dinosaur that has 2 mag subs and counts on only those opinions to spend his money has bigger problems than missing out on whatever game started this discussion in the first place.

Because you can get them both with free subscriptions

 

[MarvinTacoma]

Is it really so hard to believe that someone could not like a G'nG game?

 

[UncleGuito]

Awesome. I *hate* the DS touchscreen! Now I'm justfied in giving EVERY DS touchscreen game at LEAST a 4/10!

****, I hate the controls in Madden games, too! They're completely overengineered and counterintuitive, even if they are ARE all built on a set of accepted controls for that game series! 4/10!

(you people just walk into this.)

That is exactly right. If you're close minded about it, you'll never enjoy it.

I do disagree with the idea that they let single writers publish articles on multiple outlets. It doesn't seem right.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Is it really so hard to believe that someone could not like a G'nG game?

I can easily believe it.

Hell, I hate Madden games. Do you want me to review the 2007 installment? I also loathe the concept for the Wii controller. Would you like me to cover the Wii launch lineup? 'cuz I'm GAME.

 

[-Rogue5-]

and you are defending this idiot?

Just because you can take advantage of somone, doesn't mean you should.

Plus the topic is if it undermines ZD's credibility, and your comment proves it does (even if it's only a little).

 

[UncleGuito]

I can easily believe it.

Hell, I hate Madden games. Do you want me to review the 2007 installment?

I've believed that Halo has been overrated since it came out. If I were to review Halo 3, I CANNOT deny that I would rate the game lower than what I would have if I didn't share those beliefs- even if the outcome of the review was generated subconsciously.

 

[Robert Ashley]

Awesome. I *hate* the DS touchscreen! Now I'm justfied in giving EVERY DS touchscreen game at LEAST a 4/10!

****, I hate the controls in Madden games, too! They're completely overengineered and counterintuitive, even if they are ARE all built on a set of accepted controls for that game series! 4/10!

(you people just walk into this.)

Seems logically sound to me, though I haven't met anyone who hates the idea of a touchscreen.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

but isnt it better than having a fanboy reviewing a game and giving it 10?

 

[Ponn]

anyone savvy enough to get 2 free subs would no better than to believe a couple reviews at face value and determine his purchases based on them

Is it really that hard to believe that someone glancing through both of those magazines and seeing the low score wouldn't just write the game off? How many times in IGN and Gamespot threads on GAF alone do you see people see two 7's from both of them and go "Oh well, so and so game is not on my get list anymore". Do you really keep track of each and every reviewer for magazines? If someone grabbed a copy of EGM right now and read the scores could you ramble of the names of the reviewers without looking?

 

[Shard]

Seems logically sound to me, though I haven't met anyone who hates the idea of a touchscreen.

The meet Drinky Cow, he hates the DS and everything it stands for.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Yeah, and I haven't met anyone -- in person -- who dislikes UGnG yet. Funny thing, people.

 

[skip]

You still have yet to say how they will do this.

and you didn't really answer my question, you just said it was up to the editors how they will tackle it. how do you force someone to write in a way that is totally different from their usual style?

by either 1) editing their review to conform to the style guide, or 2) threatening to not give them any more work if they don't change. but we're not really on the lookout for writers who don't write the way we want them to.

 

[UncleGuito]

but isnt it better than having a fanboy reviewing a game and giving it 10?

Not really in this situation.

 

[Drinky Crow]

So, Mister Misconception, assuming I met the high high bar for 1UP writing standards, would *you* ask *me* to write a review of a DS touchscreen game?

 

[skip]

So, Mister Misconception, assuming I met the high high bar for 1UP writing standards, would *you* ask *me* to write a review of a DS touchscreen game?

you two need to stop fighting!

 

[UncleGuito]

So, Mister Misconception, assuming I met the high high bar for 1UP writing standards, would *you* ask *me* to write a review of a DS touchscreen game?

You should write an Animal Crossing 2 review. Jeremy would cry himself to sleep.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Not really in this situation.

why? honestly i would rather have a reviewer be hard on game than have him give a game "10" just because its MGS or Halo.

 

[Piper Az]

That's total nonsense. You can't evaluate anything outside your own perception of it. If you can't stand the way it handles, you don't enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, you say so.

While any critic cannot escape his or her perception, any bias can be avoided. You can't be a fair/objective reviewer if you can't throw your personal preferences away. If that's not possible, then don't review it. Can you imagine yourself as a film critic who does not like romantic comedies but still review them anyway? Why bother? Why not excuse yourself if you cannot go beyond your personal bias/preference?

No critic is without personal "perception", but this is far different than personal "preference". You perception, when it comes to reviewing something, should be purely professional (i.e. aiding you to judge the material as fairly as possible).

 

[Shard]

Where is the frog of toast anyway, is he eventually going to speak ot GAF directly about this, or is it just going to be blog postings and the Ziff-Davis Defense Force proxies over here?

 

[SantaC]

why? honestly i would rather have a reviewer be hard on game than have him give a game "10" just because its MGS or Halo.

stop making sense now

 

[Robert Ashley]

So, Mister Misconception, assuming I met the high high bar for 1UP writing standards, would *you* ask *me* to write a review of a DS touchscreen game?

I don't see why not. I'm guessing that after several hours of actually playing DS games, you'd probably open your mind a little bit and allow something from outside your boundless ego influence your opinion...

 

[UncleGuito]

why? honestly i would rather have a reviewer be hard on game than have him give a game "10" just because its MGS or Halo.

Well, they don't usually know better and can usually back their scoring up with reasons, even if it is higher than it should be.

Plus, I have never really seen a significant fanboy review in a major publication.

 

[Greenpanda]

Awesome. I *hate* the DS touchscreen! Now I'm justified in giving EVERY DS touchscreen game at LEAST a 4/10! (I'm gonna LOVE reviewing Wii games.)

****, I hate the controls in Madden games, too! They're completely overengineered and counterintuitive, even if they are ARE all built on a set of accepted controls for that game series! 4/10!

(you people just walk into this.)

For what it's worth, I actually think this is the way reviews *should* be done. If Drinky hates the touchscreen, I'd much rather read reviews from him that acknowledge this. Who knows? Maybe he's right. At least then there's a voice for people who don't like the touchscreen. And the people who DO like the DS touchscreen (I'm one of them ) will recognize his preferences and not take his reviews into consideration.

It's silly to cling to some pretext of objectivity when any review, by nature, ultimately comes down to a matter of preference. And, that, frankly is what irks me about most "professional" game reviews; the comp.sci-dropout hackjobs that populate ZD and other mainstream publications have never gotten past their aura of being more "informed" and "professional" than the forum-goers who, in most cases, actually have substantially more gaming experience.

 

[-Rogue5-]

but isnt it better than having a fanboy reviewing a game and giving it 10?

No. Because that might cause new players to the series to think it's really great and waste their money on it only to find out they hate it. Again, the problem with this situation is the fact that it's for multiple outlets and not so much the score (at least to me, anyway).

I've believed that Halo has been overrated since it came out. If I were to review Halo 3, I CANNOT deny that I would rate the game lower than what I would have if I didn't share those beliefs- even if the outcome of the review was generated subconsciously.

Maybe so, and it's understandable that that predispostion would affect your opinion.... BUT would you write the review for three different publications?

 

[Drinky Crow]

I don't see why not. I'm guessing that after several hours of actually playing DS games, you'd probably open your mind a little bit and allow something from outside your boundless ego influence your opinion...

I've played as many DS games as you, peep, but at least you've demonstrated why ZD credibility is under question.

 

[Robert Ashley]

While any critic cannot escape his or her perception, any bias can be avoided. You can't be a fair/objective reviewer if you can't throw your personal preferences away. If that's not possible, then don't review it. Can you imagine yourself as a film critic who does not like romantic comedies but still review them anyway? Why bother? Why not excuse yourself if you cannot go beyond your personal bias/preference?

No critic is without personal "perception", but this is far different than personal "preference". You perception, when it comes to reviewing something, should be purely professional (i.e. aiding you to judge the material as fairly as possible).

This is true. And there are people who don't play RPG's, people who don't play sports games, and those folks never review those games, mostly out of disinterest. However, Jeremy is well-played in the genre and time period of GnG, and he just didn't dig it.

 

[Greenpanda]

This is true. And there are people who don't play RPG's, people who don't play sports games, and those folks never review those games, mostly out of disinterest. However, Jeremy is well-played in the genre and time period of GnG, and he just didn't dig it.

Only if by "well-played" you mean "has a baffling obsession with the stale Metroid game design formula that he trumpets across his blog at every occassion with his execrable cartoon frog characters"

 

[UncleGuito]

Maybe so, and it's understandable that that predispostion would affect your opinion.... BUT would you write the review for three different publications?

No, if there was corporate approval of this, then I have a big problem with Ziff now. If it was a personal request, then I think Jeremy's problem is deeper than I thought: he has a huge ego and character issue.

 

[Reilly]

However, Jeremy is well-played in the genre and time period of GnG, and he just didn't dig it.

Which one? There's 3 of them

 

[skip]

No, if there was corporate approval of this, then I have a big problem with Ziff now. If it was a personal request, then I think Jeremy's problem is deeper than I thought: he has a huge ego and character issue.

as I've said before, a couple times, it was neither.