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[Mesousa]

At the rate things are going Black people and other minorities will be lucky if we can vote in the next election.

On topic though, I remember the case of Abigail Fisher who took her case all the way to supreme court because she believed that she deserved a spot at university even though she didn't have an outstanding resume or grades. Affirmative Action was almost taken down because of a mediocre white person.

We have HBCU's in this country for a reason. There was a reason why we, African Americans had to create our own universities. And with the way this admin is going, we're going to need more of them.

To be honest though the opening up of other schools have been an absolute disaster for HBCUs.

There is no reason to fight for them when you know you can just jump ship to a PWI. A few years ago Morehouse pulled out some absolutely horrific anti-trans dress and conduct codes. To a school that was pretty much groundzero for Gay and trans black men and guess what happened? People just left. They went to GSU, and just said fuck it.

If that option wasn't there you can bet your life people would have fought for the soul of Morehouse. Now HBCUs are jokes of schools full of leadership taking photo ops with the president who laughs at them, the lowest of academic standards, and even worse PR.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

That's certainly one way someone can try to deter affirmative action. They understand what affirmative action does, but they'll hide behind the pretense that they are trying to ensure everyone has the same opportunity. This about oppressing certain demographics and they know it.

If a white male wants to go to college literally he and he alone is at fault for not getting in to college. It's basically a birthright in this country for white males.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Since this administration is crossing off the list of 'shit racists complain about on Facebook' how long until we get the federally funded 'White Entertainment Television' channel?

WET already exists, it's called CMT. Granted it's not federally funded.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Steve Bannon's influence? Well not that they need an actual white nationalist to be old white racists but still.

 

[Buckle]

White people are the ones really in need.

All this privilege is suffocating me. ;_;

 

[Kthulhu]

Good luck with that. Dumber people have tried.

 

[Yazzees]

I've come across dweebs on reddit for whom this is their single-issue vote and overall daily hate-obsession. Don't underestimate the perception that white people are getting shafted on college admissions, as ridiculous as that perception is. This is gonna be really popular.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Fuck you Jeff Sessions!

 

[Cybit]

That's an impressive dog whistle by Trump. Wow.

Aren't the majority beneficiaries of Affirmative Action white people in the first place?

https://www.vox.com/2016/5/25/11682950/fisher-supreme-court-white-women-affirmative-action

White women benefit the most from the law, and are some of the law's most ardent critics.

Yep! Asians end up getting hosed because they aren't generally split out into the various subgroups that have wildly different economic backgrounds and should be weighted differently (see below). So if you're Hmong or Thai or any not-rich Asian; you're super duper fucked.

At extremely selective institutions, wouldn't that background be conveyed via essays, statements, recommendations, and interviews?

In holistic admissions settings, it's pretty hard to just hand-waive all of that information.

As someone whose best friend happened to work as an admissions officer at one of the top schools in the country; it takes about 30-60 seconds to look through an application. (This school requires an essay, btw).

The problem is that, unsurprisingly, schools took the laziest, easiest way out of the intent of AA, and almost all generate "scores" using automatic algorithms. The algorithm is where the weighting occurs based on race, gender, GPA, etc. Only when scores get close does the other stuff come into play. Oh look, the same people who constitute the NCAA might take the easiest, laziest way out of something, and give no fucks about the consequences of their actions as long as the optics look good. Color me shocked

IIRC, there was a lawsuit and they figured out that at least one Ivy League school was doing this exact thing.

 

[Furyous]

We need to sympathize with the struggles that white applicants have to go through with getting into college. Surely there is some sort of data that has to exist that demonstrates colleges are turning down qualified white applicants from good backgrounds in favor of minorities.

.....

.....

.....

Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously, this is what they're doing with my tax dollars? Going after universities that enroll qualified applicants over white students mad that they didn't get into the college of their choices despite coming from great homes and high schools is damn crazy.

How about the justice department due something about the innocent people dying at the hands of police instead of fraudulently going after POC that enroll in PWIs.

No data exists to back up this claim that colleges are purposefully excluding white applicants towards the benefits of people of color. Like Abigail Fisher these white applicants are not good enough. Minorities and white students don't get into their college of choice. You didn't see me complain that Harvard wouldn't let me in even though their tuition is expensive as shit. The nannystate has reached the justice department and they're mad about this affirmative action stuff.

The Justice Department can collaborate with the education department to raise the college entry requirements to solve all this. Make it harder to get into college such that only affluent white students can meet the requirement.

 

[Buckle]

Fuck you Jeff Sessions!

Decades ago a black Lumberjack cut down his keebler elf tree.

Hes never forgotten.

 

[HeySeuss]

Don't stop there Trump! Go after the United Negro College Fund and BET while you're at it. Those racist organizations should understand why you want to MAGA!!!

I can bleach your sheets if you'd like! Anything to help the cause...

Spoiler

just so everyone is clear, this post is sarcasm

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

To be honest though the opening up of other schools have been an absolute disaster for HBCUs.

There is no reason to fight for them when you know you can just jump ship to a PWI. A few years ago Morehouse pulled out some absolutely horrific anti-trans dress and conduct codes. To a school that was pretty much grounder for Gay and trans black men and guess what happened? People just left. They went to GSU, and just said fuck it.

If that option wasn't there you can bet your life people would have fought for the soul of Morehouse. Now HBCUs are jokes of schools full of leadership taking photo ops with the president who laughs at them, the lowest of academic standards, and even worse PR.

Fuck off. A lot of HBCUs do a great job of accepting students who may not have excelled in high school for various reasons and helping them make something of themselves. Also depending on your field there are numerous HBCUs that excel in putting out doctors, engineers, pharmacists, lawyers, etc..

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

We have HBCU's in this country for a reason. There was a reason why we, African Americans had to create our own universities. And with the way this admin is going, we're going to need more of them.

And that worthless piece of shit Davos will shamelessly repeat how they're "pioneers of choice", then look confused when people respond negatively.

I bet all the rust belt idiots who voted for this guy don't see this is an issue, of course.

 

[Baroquemantic]

Wow.

 

[ccbfan]

If this gets through he will overwhelmingly get the secret Asian vote in 2020.

 

[therealist]

They are gonna be pissed when Harvard consists of 50% Asians.

 

[wisdom0wl]

Suburban, mediocre white kids that had no challenges getting help bc they're uninteresting as fuck smh. Like those idiots ever had a spot at the top universities to begin with.

 

[tmarg]

IIRC, there was a lawsuit and they figured out that at least one Ivy League school was doing this exact thing.

IIRC, the lawsuit against the University of Michigan law school made assigning numerical scores to demographics illegal. So AA can't just be part of an algorithm.

 

[yanipheonu]

Once again, people misconstrue equality with a zero sum game.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

Are they trying to sue historically black colleges for discrimination, in which case whoooo boy is that a lack of context. Or are they trying to sue colleges for, in effect, practicing affirmative action and therefore they deem it as discriminatory to white people, in which case whoooo boy is that a lack of context.

Regardless of option A or option B, they can fuck right off.

 

[ccbfan]

Yup. Top schools do not just toss applications in the trash when they see white or Asian. People are unwilling to admit that they are a bland applicant and will assume that a student of color at a top school only got there because of AA.

The stats are there about how much better Asian have to perform in test and grades to get to top school. Whether you like to ignore facts are up to you.

Or you going to make the racist statement all asians are bland instead. Cause this forum have more often than nit made this statement and you will probably get congratulated for it.

 

[BobNewbert31]

 

[Ponn]

What do you have to lose?

 

[Wilsongt]

Someone in 2017 with enough power behind them literally sat down and thought "there are too many colored boys getting an education."

 

[Trouble]

Trump getting impeached for firing Sessions would make me so happy.

Someone in 2017 with enough power behind them literally sat down and thought "there are too many colored boys getting an education."

I bet they didn't use the word 'colored'.

 

[Mesousa]

Fuck off. A lot of HBCUs do a great job of accepting students who may not have excelled in high school for various reasons and helping them make something of themselves. Also depending on your field there are numerous HBCUs that excel in putting out doctors, engineers, pharmacists, lawyers, etc..

Do they do a great job of discriminating against trans black men(who are paying outrageous tuition) and begging to the bigot in the white house?

They do a good job of taking student loan money from kids, who have no business being in College yet, and then screwing them the same way that oath in chief did with Trump U.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

As someone whose best friend happened to work as an admissions officer at one of the top schools in the country; it takes about 30-60 seconds to look through an application. (This school requires an essay, btw).

The problem is that, unsurprisingly, schools took the laziest, easiest way out of the intent of AA, and almost all generate "scores" using automatic algorithms. The algorithm is where the weighting occurs based on race, gender, GPA, etc. Only when scores get close does the other stuff come into play. Oh look, the same people who constitute the NCAA might take the easiest, laziest way out of something, and give no fucks about the consequences of their actions as long as the optics look good. Color me shocked

IIRC, there was a lawsuit and they figured out that at least one Ivy League school was doing this exact thing.

But if scores weren't that close based on numbers, then maybe it was the numbers that didn't get the person to the next round. How would you expect admissions officers to filter through tens of thousands of applicants, all with 4.0s and 1500+ SAT/32+ ACTs, with 1000 spots to ultimately award? Something is going to give in the process.

Admissions officers also have little to nothing to do with the NCAA. Frequently, they're overruled when they don't want to admit an athlete, but then get calls from the athletics department wondering why their recruit wasn't admitted at first.

As for lawsuits, there was also another one saying the girl was full of it and just wasn't as good of an applicant as she thought. Admissions is complicated. When you have very limited spots, and a ton of applicants, someone is going to get squeezed.

What I have seen in practice is people that are rich, have all of the resources, etc., completely discount schools if they're not in the "top 10 or 25" or whatever. They think those are their only options and will go after only those. Instead of understanding that there are probably dozens to hundreds of schools out there that are not as selective, but will have the program they are looking for with the resources available to help facilitate them to be highly successful for their career or graduate school. I see that every single day. And much more often than admissions officers using race as a major factor of admission.

Now I will admit there is a lack of nuanced reporting on the Asian continent. I know the College Board has done some good work in breaking down ethnic categories for Asian countries. School do need to catch up there for sure.

 

[Darryl M R]

The stats are there about how much better Asian have to perform in test and grades to get to top school. Whether you like to ignore facts are up to you.

Or you going to make the racist statement all asians are bland instead. Cause this forum have more often than nit made this statement and you will probably get congratulated for it.

Ah yes because tests and grades are the only component of an application.

A bland applicant is a bland applicant. People get rejected from Ivys with 4.0 GPAs and near perfect SATs.

But please try to falsely accuse my posts of saying all Asians are bland and make sure you highlight where I said that. Continue.

 

[norm9]

What's Besty Davos think? Isn't this something she should have an opinion on.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

But if scores weren't that close based on numbers, then maybe it was the numbers that didn't get the person to the next round. How would you expect admissions officers to filter through tens of thousands of applicants, all with 4.0s and 1500+ SAT/32+ ACTs, with 1000 spots to ultimately award? Something is going to give in the process.

Admissions officers also have little to nothing to do with the NCAA. Frequently, they're overruled when they don't want to admit an athlete, but then get calls from the athletics department wondering why their recruit wasn't admitted at first.

As for lawsuits, there was also another one saying the girl was full of it and just wasn't as good of an applicant as she thought. Admissions is complicated. When you have very limited spots, and a ton of applicants, someone is going to get squeezed.

What I have seen in practice is people that are rich, have all of the resources, etc., completely discount schools if they're not in the "top 10 or 25" or whatever. They think those are their only options and will go after only those. Instead of understanding that there are probably dozens to hundreds of schools out there that are not as selective, but will have the program they are looking for with the resources available to help facilitate them to be highly successful for their career or graduate school. I see that every single day. And much more often than admissions officers using race as a major factor of admission.

Now I will admit there is a lack of nuanced reporting on the Asian continent. I know the College Board has done some good work in breaking down ethnic categories for Asian countries. School do need to catch up there for sure.

So true.

I had classmates who though the same and felt like their life would be a failure if they were not accepted by one of their target schools.

If one is a STEM major, particularly an engineering student, is getting a degree from an out-of-state target school but with a higher cost of tuition/starting salary vs lower cost of tuition/starting salary from an in-state school worth it?

Most flat out said yes.

Insecurity is a mother fucker.

 

[Violence Jack]

I remember not getting into my first college of choice because even though I met their criteria, they had already reached their "non-athletic minority quota" by the time they processed my application.

Sessions wants to keep disadvantaged minorities from getting opportunities.

Fuck this administration.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/08/13/white_people_s_meritocracy_hypocrisy.html

Click here for your daily dose of lols.

 

[Mesousa]

Ah yes because tests and grades are the only component of an application.

A bland applicant is a bland applicant. People get rejected from Ivys with 4.0 GPAs and near perfect SATs.

But please try to falsely accuse my posts of saying all Asians are bland and make sure you highlight where I said that. Continue.

Not if they are black though.

A black guy with a 4.0 GPA and a near perfect SAT is a lock EVERYWHERE as long as there isnt some kind of major crime or similar issue in their background. The same isnt necessarily true with Asians. Especially if the extra curricular activities are not there.

Its all about supply and demand in the end. There is a reason why the terms underrepresented and overrepresented exist.

 

[jviggy43]

Elections matter. I'd like to thank all those progressives out there who were too principled to vote for the candidate on the ballot. Some of us will be feeling this more than others for a LONG time.

Seriously this. I knew so many people that kept pushing the "Theyre both equally bad" angle. Yeah go tell that to basically every non straight white male in this country.

 

[ccbfan]

Ah yes because tests and grades are the only component of an application.

A bland applicant is a bland applicant. People get rejected from Ivys with 4.0 GPAs and near perfect SATs.

But please try to falsely accuse my posts of saying all Asians are bland and make sure you highlight where I said that. Continue.

If Asians need much higher scores, more extra curricular activities and more volunteer hours than the average white applicant to get into a top school and your blandness factor is oh so important. Then what else are you implying?

 

[Darryl M R]

Not if they are black though.

A black guy with a 4.0 GPA and a near perfect SAT is a lock EVERYWHERE as long as there isnt some kind of major crime or similar issue in their background. The same isnt necessarily true with Asians. Especially if the extra curricular activities are not there.

Its all about supply and demand in the end. There is a reason why the terms underrepresented and overrepresented exist.

That's an absolute statement and it is incorrect. A black male student with a 4.0 and perfect SAT score with a terrible essay, interview, and no real story would face difficulties securing admission at every top school he applied to.

Speaking from experience on this one.

If Asians need much higher scores, more extra curricular activities and more volunteer hours than the average white applicant to get into a top school and your blandness factor is oh so important. Then what else are you implying?

Narrative of what you hope to achieve from the specific school and program and how you are a well rounded person. It's not that difficult to understand how subjectivity plays a role in admissions. If a Hispanic student with a perfect GPA and SAT was heads down in college and then his parents wanted him to focus on becoming a better college applicant and not a better person so he did not understand the value of his community service and this was portrayed in his essays and interviews then he would face hardships in getting in. It's not difficult to imagine a student slipping and saying "I did a lot of community service to show how dedicated I am to getting into Harvard because I know Harvard cares about service." When that would imply the student is not doing service for the sake of providing his community with needed resources.

 

[platocplx]

Elections matter. I'd like to thank all those progressives out there who were too principled to vote for the candidate on the ballot. Some of us will be feeling this more than others for a LONG time.

Yup. Fuck them and their purity tests. Many(white progressives) who have the luxury to vote 3rd party and not have to deal with this shit drives me nuts. Elections matter and even 4 years of this will have a major impact Years to come especially when it comes to the Supreme Court etc. thank you all.

 

[Electric Eye]

I hope next they address why there isn't a White American appreciation month. It's just not fair.



Oh white America you are gonna have so much explaining to do to you grandchildren.

 

[Marvie_3]

Of fucking course

 

[ccbfan]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/08/13/white_people_s_meritocracy_hypocrisy.html

Click here for your daily dose of lols.

Pretty much every study on aa have concluded it doesn't hurt white people (white women actually benefit most) they just take the spot from an Asian instead.

 

[platocplx]

Pretty much every study on aa have concluded it doesn't hurt white people (white women actually benefit most) they just take the spot from an Asian instead.

Basically they are wasting taxpayer money on this bullshit. While there are Americans who could have needed the justice dept and it's civil rights resources.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Pretty much every study on aa have concluded it doesn't hurt white people (white women actually benefit most) they just take the spot from an Asian instead.

No race has any set spots. There is nothing that entitles that Asian, white, woman, etc. student for a spot.

 

[ccbfan]

Narrative of what you hope to achieve from the specific school and program and how you are a well rounded person. It's not that difficult to understand how subjectivity plays a role in admissions.

Oh now Asian aren't well rounded another frequent racist comment against asians.

Are you gonna make fun of us eating cats next cause it's ok to do that on this forum too.

 

[Polari]

I don't understand this thought process at all. We are already overrepresented, which means there is no need to be salty about anything.

A 2005 study by Princeton sociologists Thomas J. Espenshade and Chang Y. Chung compared the effects of affirmative action on racial and special groups at three highly selective private research universities. The data from the study represent admissions disadvantage and advantage in terms of SAT points (on the old 1600-point scale):

Whites (non-recruited athlete/non-legacy status): 0 (control group)
Blacks: +230
Hispanics: +185
Asians: –50
Recruited athletes: +200
Legacies (children of alumni): +160

Source

If it were me or my kids I could understand feeling a little bit salty. Basically on average you have to achieve higher than other ethnicities in order to secure a place at a top school. I think it would particularly bother me if I was a first-generation immigrant from a relatively poor background.

It's not about representation as an ethnic group (plus, "Asian" is a super diverse ethnic grouping anyway), but potentially being personally disadvantaged by systematic bias.

 

[lightskintwin]

Pretty much every study on aa have concluded it doesn't hurt white people (white women actually benefit most) they just take the spot from an Asian instead.

Exactly.

A good article written by Dr. Frank H Wu:

The Truth About Asian Americans And Affirmative Action

Asian Americans might be against ”preferences." What we should understand, however, is that the vast bulk of such preferences operate to benefit whites over Asian Americans, not African Americans and Hispanics. Whites and Asian Americans are the primary competitors to one another, and within each community, for seats at top-ranked schools. If all the African Americans and Hispanics in the pool vanished — which some seem not to mind; witness the acceptance of the absurdly low enrollment in the University of California professional schools after Proposition 209 passed — white and Asian American kids still would be vying against one another.

It is in that contest that whites have been given an unfair advantage. Properly implemented, efforts to ensure diversity in enrollment would evaluate the persons not included in the program, generally whites and Asian Americans, on an equal basis. The data has always been out there in the open: whites are admitted with, on average, lower test scores. Yet that astonishing fact has simply been ignored or misinterpreted.

Jerry Kang, a vice-chancellor at UCLA in charge of addressing bias and promoting inclusion, wrote an academic article more than a generation ago describing a phenomenon he termed ”negative action" toward Asian Americans. In one of the earliest studies to explain the situation, he pointed out that Asian Americans were not only excluded from affirmative action for other minorities but also subjected to worse treatment than the majority. They were being passed over not due to what has been dubbed ”reverse" discrimination (to help African Americans and Hispanics) but rather out of regular discrimination (to help whites). That is the old-fashioned type of discrimination, practiced, for example, when Jews were not fully white and faced quotas in college admissions right up to the civil rights movement of the 1960s. The Asian American experience repeats the Jewish example. There is no good basis for saying that whites were discriminated against by Asian Americans historically, such that a remedy is necessary; or that they suffer some disadvantage vis-a-vis Asian Americans today, such that mitigation is needed.

 

[Darryl M R]

Oh now Asian aren't well rounded another frequent racist comment against asians.

Are you gonna make fun of us eating cats next cause it's ok to do that on this forum too.

Sounds like you have a disliking towards this forum and a reading impairment. Quote me where I said all Asians are not well rounded.

 

[Mesousa]

That's an absolute statement and it is incorrect. A black male student with a 4.0 and perfect SAT score with a terrible essay, interview, and no real story would face difficulties securing admission at every top school he applied to.

Speaking from experience on this one.

Thats the thing though. A black kid(especially male) with a 4.0 and a perfect SAT score has a story by virtue of being. They are a unicorn in a society which has stacked the odds against them up to the point.

The hypothetical you made doesnt exist because the story is inherent to the system.

 

[Lifeline]

yooooooooooooooooooooo

Well at least all those Asians that voted for Trump aren't benefiting from this.

All ORM will benefit from this.

I still think affirmative action should be based entirely on income and hometown and not race.

 

[Darryl M R]

Thats the thing though. A black kid(especially male) with a 4.0 and a perfect SAT score has a story by virtue of being. They are a unicorn in a society which has stacked the odds against them up to the point.

The hypothetical you made doesnt exist because the story is inherent to the system.

Well I'm that black kid that didn't get into some top school with those criteria so I take interest in conversations that argue that is all you needed to be: black, 4.0 GPA, and near perfect SATs. In fact a lot of my peers did not get into certain school with similar stats.