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[FlammableD]

I spoke with a co-worker last night who told me her sister voted for Trump because he'll probably get assassinated anyway and Pence can take over and we'll all be okay. I just stared in disbelief. Stupid people are truly dangerous, and they helped put this fuckface in office.

Yeah, I had a Trump voter on facebook post "I'm still not a Trump fan (although I have great respect for Pence)" and I was thinking "that might be worse"

 

[Kai Dracon]

So I was talking about the election with someone in the car and mentioned that Pence supported electrocuting the gay out of people, and he responded 'Good.'

This guy had been nothing but nice to me and was a nice neighbor until that moment. Sometimes I just don't know.

Welcome to the compartmentalized morality and lack of critical thinking of bigots.

This is why so many diet bigot Trump supporters are going to be intractable. The diet bigot thinks that bigotry means advocating death or complete destruction of people in other groups. As long as they don't want that, they can't be bigots.

 

[johancruijff]

I really want that "Make America Great Again" Presidential Cap but unfortunately Trump's shop only ships within the US.

Unfortunately, here in Europe only cheap imitations from China are available, so if a nice GAF member from the US could get me one, it would be highly appreciated.
I'd sent you the money for the cap and shipping with PayPal, just contact me.

See you blew it

You should have asked for this in the secret santa thread

 

[Steve Youngblood]

One of those things that we'll never really have an answer to that I find myself wondering about was how much movement in the polls was real. I've seen talk among some Poli Sci types that seem skeptical of most poll movements and think it's largely noise. After the Access Hollywood tape and the second debate, we were starting to see images like this painting a story that this thing was practically over:

At FiveThirtyEight she had crept up to a nearly 90 percent favorite. But there are other pollsters that painted a different picture. I recently read this bit from YouGov entitled Beware the phantom swings: why dramatic bounces in the polls aren't always what they seem.

Other events, however, have not had any detectable impact on voting intentions. We did not see any shifts after the release of the Access Hollywood video, the second or third presidential debates, or the reopening of the FBI investigation into Clinton’s emails. When the same people were reinterviewed, almost all said they were supporting the same candidate they had told us they were supporting in prior interviews. The small number who did change their voting intentions shifted about evenly toward Clinton and Trump so the net real change was close to zero.

Although we didn’t find much vote switching, we did notice a different type of change: the willingness of Clinton and Trump supporters to participate in our polls varied by a significant amount depending upon what was happening at the time of the poll: when things are going badly for a candidate, their supporters tend to stop participating in polls. For example, after the release of the Access Hollywood video, Trump supporters were four percent less likely than Clinton supporters to participate in our poll. The same phenomenon occurred this weekend for Clinton supporters after the announcement of the FBI investigation: Clinton supporters responded at a three percent lower rate than Trump supporters (who could finally take a survey about a subject they liked).

I don't really have any meaningful conclusions from this. Really where my thoughts go is that it's hard for me to try and confidently assess any post-mortem as an armchair critic because while I think there are some obvious observations to draw about things like Clinton's general weakness as a candidate and her failure to try and connect with working class voters, there's also a certain amount of defeatism that I can't shake off where I wonder how much campaigning and throwing money at certain areas and formulating strategies even matters at all.

Things like the Access Hollywood video and Comey's letter seemed like defining moments of the campaign, but did they really matter at all?

 

[Jamiaro]

What are the chances of the Democrats to build their strength in 2-4 years time and take the country back?

Mrs Obama for candidacy, for example? One can hope.

 

[Flying Toaster]

What are the chances of the Democrats to build their strength in 2-4 years time and take the country back?

Mrs Obama for candidacy, for example? One can hope.

Honestly not very good.

1. Michelle Obama does not want to run. I respect that.
2. The Democratic party has no state game for local elections they need to start there first.
3. The Republicans have been taking over power since 2010.

To do what the Republicans just did Democrats will need to start at the local levels and branch out. This is a long game. The Republicans did it ages ago and are now reaping the rewards.

Getting a voter base that is actually going to vote party lines every election is harder than just getting out a turnout like the Democrats did in 2008.

Edit: Eventually though post tea party and wrecking establishment GOP even this is going to blow up in the Republicans face as business will continue to be the same in Washington. But if you truly want change just voting for who is President is not going to help. Where you live matters vote in those elections make sure your cities and your states have the change you want.

 

[Garlador]

What are the chances of the Democrats to build their strength in 2-4 years time and take the country back?

Mrs Obama for candidacy, for example? One can hope.

Don't expect a quick turn-around. This is a long-haul battle and it may take longer. By all means, vote in midterms. That won't solve the problems, but it will be a stepping stone.

As for Mrs. Obama, being pragmatic, I don't see it. The nation is rebelling currently against presidential legacies regardless of party (Bush, Clinton, etc.), and Michelle herself has openly stated she has no interest in politics nor will she accrue the experience (not that that stopped Trump, but it's still a mark against anyone running for office who was never a former elected official).

The biggest way to "win" is to work at a grassroots level, because it's not just a party that wins an election. People voted for Trump for a reason, and understanding those reasons and not reducing them to dismissive caricatures ("they're all racists/idiots/rednecks, etc.") is the first step towards changing people's minds and opinions as well as rebranding a party to cater to an apparently very disillusioned portion of the nation that felt left behind and desperate.

 

[RDreamer]

I spoke with a co-worker last night who told me her sister voted for Trump because he'll probably get assassinated anyway and Pence can take over and we'll all be okay. I just stared in disbelief. Stupid people are truly dangerous, and they helped put this fuckface in office.

Yeah my parents voted Trump in hopes he'd get impeached and Pencd could be president.

 

[Damerman]

Yeah my parents voted Trump in hopes he'd get impeached and Pencd could be president.

Im more afraid of a republican mandate than trump.

 

[User 73706]

Yeah my parents voted Trump in hopes he'd get impeached and Pencd could be president.

Your parents are supervillains.

 

[marrec]

Im more afraid of a republican mandate than trump.

Problem is we're getting the Republican Mandate bundled with Trump so far. He's going to follow up on any of his more radical independent campaign promises.

 

[Airola]

Oh god!

 

[TS-08]

Yeah my parents voted Trump in hopes he'd get impeached and Pencd could be president.

This is probably hyperbole, but I think going with Pence as VP was a big factor in Trump getting enough support to win like he did. I know three people in my life who said they didn't like Trump and essentially decided to vote for Pence. Now they may have gone through with voting Trump anyway, but if it ended up being someone like Christie on the ticket, it's possible they wouldn't have voted for president at all (they were never voting Clinton). Pence legitimized the ticket for a lot of conservatives who had serious reservations about Trump.

This makes the Kaine pick look like a poor strategic decision in comparison, even though I liked him. I can't imagine he had anywhere near the same effect for Clinton.

 

[mbpm1]

Except Trump is going to get re-elected RIP

 

[Airola]

Except Trump is going to get re-elected RIP

Well, Lucas has still time to make a new cut of The Return of the Jedi. He can fix the movie to reflect on that with some CGI.

 

[CreepingFear]

So I was talking about the election with someone in the car and mentioned that Pence supported electrocuting the gay out of people, and he responded 'Good.'

This guy had been nothing but nice to me and was a nice neighbor until that moment. Sometimes I just don't know.

If I was driving that car, I would have pulled over and told that person to get out and walk. If I wasn't driving, I would have asked to pull the car over and let me out because I wouldn't want to be with that person another god damn second.

 

[NimbleNavigator]

When you think about it, white people really failed the rest of us on this. So disappointing

 

[Darksol]

So looks like Newt has some ideas for Trump's SS ARMY.

Newt Gingrich wants new House Un-American Activities Committee

Fuck this country, seriously.

This is straight up 1984/Brave New World shit.

 

[Flying Toaster]

When you think about it, white people really failed the rest of us on this. So disappointing

Come on really? I am pissed as well but blaming white people only is stupid. A lot of white people voted for Clinton.

 

[GSG Flash]

Honestly not very good.

1. Michelle Obama does not want to run. I respect that.
2. The Democratic party has no state game for local elections they need to start there first.
3. The Republicans have been taking over power since 2010.

To do what the Republicans just did Democrats will need to start at the local levels and branch out. This is a long game. The Republicans did it ages ago and are now reaping the rewards.

I don't know if Republicans are reaping any rewards actually, all of their establishment candidates got destroyed in the primaries, and the only candidates remaining by the end of the primaries were two candidates heavily supported by tea partiers.

Their candidate won, but depending on how Trump plays along, it might by a pyrrhic victory.

 

[Raven117]

When you think about it, white people really failed the rest of us on this. So disappointing

While I can certainly see how you came to this conclusion, to think of it this way IMO is not the whole picture.

To view this election on simply race will hurt Democrats going forward.

The Left failed...and failed miserably. They failed to make the case of why their policies help everyone. They failed to show Joe Six Pack (and there are still a lot of them in the country) in Michigan, WI, NC why the Democrats "Felt their pain" and would work to improve their lot in life.

(Besides, White people usually vote for Republicans anyway . . . that's not news).

Hillary was completely tone deaf to middle America. The Left was so focused on minority groups and demographics that they forgot to actually tend their own flock, the majority.

There is enough blame to go around on this...everyone is guilty of something.

 

[Flying Toaster]

I don't know if Republicans are reaping any rewards actually, all of their establishment candidates got destroyed in the primaries, and the only candidates remaining by the end of the primaries were two candidates heavily supported by tea partiers.

Their candidate won, but depending on how Trump plays along, it might by a pyrrhic victory.

Justice nominations alone is a win. A very scary very serious win.

 

[Monocle]

So looks like Newt has some ideas for Trump's SS ARMY.

Newt Gingrich wants new House Un-American Activities Committee

Fuck this country, seriously.

Definitely not fascist at all.

Totes worth it if I get my jerbs.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Don't expect a quick turn-around. This is a long-haul battle and it may take longer. By all means, vote in midterms. That won't solve the problems, but it will be a stepping stone.

As for Mrs. Obama, being pragmatic, I don't see it. The nation is rebelling currently against presidential legacies regardless of party (Bush, Clinton, etc.), and Michelle herself has openly stated she has no interest in politics nor will she accrue the experience (not that that stopped Trump, but it's still a mark against anyone running for office who was never a former elected official).

The biggest way to "win" is to work at a grassroots level, because it's not just a party that wins an election. People voted for Trump for a reason, and understanding those reasons and not reducing them to dismissive caricatures ("they're all racists/idiots/rednecks, etc.") is the first step towards changing people's minds and opinions as well as rebranding a party to cater to an apparently very disillusioned portion of the nation that felt left behind and desperate.

I understand that people are hurting. What I don't understand is why Trump's negative outlook drew them to him when it was so trivially pointed out that he's been Mr. Cheap Foreign goods and labor. Why propping up dead industries is more appealing than helping the workers find more stable long term opportunities. Why he could lie to their face and exhibit so many flaws of character, demeanor, preparedness, and judgment (when the only trait you can even possibly remotely hold against hillary is her judgment, but it wasn't nearly as bad as Trump's), and how little those things actually matter for the most powerful, difficult, dangerous, and important job in the world.

I just can't believe people got duped despite how much of a complete asshole, buffoon, and snake oil salesman Trump was exposed for every day of the campaign. It's like the Democrats are held to the standards of...fucking obama, fdr, Teddy, and Lincoln, and the Republicans are held to the standards of honey boo boo

 

[Monocle]

I understand that people are hurting. What I don't understand is why Trump's negative outlook drew them to him when it was so trivially pointed out that he's been Mr. Cheap Foreign goods and labor. Why propping up dead industries is more appealing than helping the workers find more stable long term opportunities. Why he could lie to their face and exhibit so many flaws of character, demeanor, preparedness, and judgment (when the only trait you can even possibly remotely hold against hillary is her judgment, but it wasn't nearly as bad as Trump's).

I just can't believe people got duped despite how much of a complete asshole, buffoon, and snake oil salesman Trump was exposed for every day of the campaign. It's like the Democrats are held to the standards of...fucking obama, fdr, Teddy, and Lincoln, and the Republicans are held to the standards of honey boo boo

Never doubt the power of human ignorance and selfishness.

 

[acheron_xl]

A thing I've wondered is, it was widely speculated that Bannon and Kushner were launching TrumpTV if he lost. What if they launch it anyway, and it becomes the state media arm of the Trump administration? Get that message under control!

 

[marrec]

A thing I've wondered is, it was widely speculated that Bannon and Kushner were launching TrumpTV if he lost. What if they launch it anyway, and it becomes the state media arm of the Trump administration? Get that message under control!

Clearly they can't call it Trump TV can they?

You know what, who the fuck am I kidding, they've been extraordinarily brazen about flaunting their disregard for basic human decency instead of hiding it so I'm sure we'll have Trump TV launch the same day as the Inauguration with Press Secretary Milo Yiannopoulos hosting live streamed Reddit AMAs instead of normal press briefings.

 

[mbpm1]

I understand that people are hurting. What I don't understand is why Trump's negative outlook drew them to him when it was so trivially pointed out that he's been Mr. Cheap Foreign goods and labor. Why propping up dead industries is more appealing than helping the workers find more stable long term opportunities. Why he could lie to their face and exhibit so many flaws of character, demeanor, preparedness, and judgment (when the only trait you can even possibly remotely hold against hillary is her judgment, but it wasn't nearly as bad as Trump's), and how little those things actually matter for the most powerful, difficult, dangerous, and important job in the world.

I just can't believe people got duped despite how much of a complete asshole, buffoon, and snake oil salesman Trump was exposed for every day of the campaign. It's like the Democrats are held to the standards of...fucking obama, fdr, Teddy, and Lincoln, and the Republicans are held to the standards of honey boo boo

Trump is their revenge.

 

[digdug2k]

While I can certainly see how you came to this conclusion, to think of it this way IMO is not the whole picture.

To view this election on simply race will hurt Democrats going forward.

The Left failed...and failed miserably. They failed to make the case of why their policies help everyone. They failed to show Joe Six Pack (and there are still a lot of them in the country) in Michigan, WI, NC why the Democrats "Felt their pain" and would work to improve their lot in life.

(Besides, White people usually vote for Republicans anyway . . . that's not news).

Hillary was completely tone deaf to middle America. The Left was so focused on minority groups and demographics that they forgot to actually tend their own flock, the majority.

There is enough blame to go around on this...everyone is guilty of something.

Again, I don't really believe this "tone deaf" bullshit. Watching a DVR'd show last night, I saw a Hillary ad (in CA no less, where she doesn't even need to advertise) that was bsaically entirely "I'm working for hard middle class families". It had the word "family" in it I swear a hundred times, so maybe that focus was a bit off.

But I think in general these people just stuck their fingers in their ears at her message and refused to listen. I'm not saying that's not on her. She didn't sell herself. Her people did an awful job selling her. They wound up letting Trump drive the narrative. They fucked up. But I don't think she was tone deaf to middle America.

i.e. I'll be pissed, but not surprised, based on the analysis I'm seeing now, if the next election is more of the same. "We have a great message! I don't know why people aren't listening!" Its cause you've done an awful job telling them about it.

 

[Principate]

One of those things that we'll never really have an answer to that I find myself wondering about was how much movement in the polls was real. I've seen talk among some Poli Sci types that seem skeptical of most poll movements and think it's largely noise. After the Access Hollywood tape and the second debate, we were starting to see images like this painting a story that this thing was practically over:

At FiveThirtyEight she had crept up to a nearly 90 percent favorite. But there are other pollsters that painted a different picture. I recently read this bit from YouGov entitled Beware the phantom swings: why dramatic bounces in the polls aren't always what they seem.

I don't really have any meaningful conclusions from this. Really where my thoughts go is that it's hard for me to try and confidently assess any post-mortem as an armchair critic because while I think there are some obvious observations to draw about things like Clinton's general weakness as a candidate and her failure to try and connect with working class voters, there's also a certain amount of defeatism that I can't shake off where I wonder how much campaigning and throwing money at certain areas and formulating strategies even matters at all.

Things like the Access Hollywood video and Comey's letter seemed like defining moments of the campaign, but did they really matter at all?

I personally think they did but not in terms people switching votes. I believe largely the people that voted in election had decided a long time ago who they were going to vote for. What those scandals did was to push the undecided's with slight leans to not vote, and the more significant the scandal the more people decided to just stay home. It seems in general Trump's scandals did not affect his base as much as Clinton's and honestly that's not too surprising because he is a walking scandal from his very announcement. If you had supported Trump through 70 scandals what's 20 more really.

 

[Neoweee]

I understand that people are hurting. What I don't understand is why Trump's negative outlook drew them to him when it was so trivially pointed out that he's been Mr. Cheap Foreign goods and labor. Why propping up dead industries is more appealing than helping the workers find more stable long term opportunities. Why he could lie to their face and exhibit so many flaws of character, demeanor, preparedness, and judgment (when the only trait you can even possibly remotely hold against hillary is her judgment, but it wasn't nearly as bad as Trump's).

I just can't believe people got duped despite how much of a complete asshole, buffoon, and snake oil salesman Trump was exposed for every day of the campaign. It's like the Democrats are held to the standards of...fucking obama, fdr, Teddy, and Lincoln, and the Republicans are held to the standards of honey boo boo

That's what makes it so easy to learn the wrong lessons from all of these. 26% of Americans didn't care about racism, sexism, sexual assault, and probable white supremacy. Who didn't care, and for who was it a selling point?

 

[marrec]

That's what makes it so easy to learn the wrong lessons from all of these. 26% of Americans didn't care about racism, sexism, sexual assault, and probable white supremacy. Who didn't care, and for who was it a selling point?

Clearly for a lot of people the white supremacy of Trump's message was the spoonful of sugar mixed in with his other messages.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

What was that meme of the picture of this guy with some caption about panicking about Trump? It was funny all through the election cycle because we all deep down thought he was never going to win, but now it's not that funny

 

[acheron_xl]

Clearly they can't call it Trump TV can they?

You know what, who the fuck am I kidding, they've been extraordinarily brazen about flaunting their disregard for basic human decency instead of hiding it so I'm sure we'll have Trump TV launch the same day as the Inauguration with Press Secretary Milo Yiannopoulos hosting live streamed Reddit AMAs instead of normal press briefings.

At this point I just assume they'll make the most obvious and obviously craven decision every time. And I'm still surprised somewhat often, though I think I'm starting to get it.

 

[LumpOfCole]

Except Trump is going to get re-elected RIP

If things remain exactly the same as now, yes.

But the next four years are going to be extremely unpredictable.

 

[paperboywriter]

dan carlin has a new episode about trump on his common sense podcast.

 

[marrec]

dan carlin has a new episode about trump on his common sense podcast.

I listened and all the points he put in the "potentially good" column are obviated by the people Trump is surrounding himself with.

I like Dan's History podcast but his Common Sense podcast seems strangely naive most of the time.

 

[paperboywriter]

I listened and all the points he put in the "potentially good" column are obviated by the people Trump is surrounding himself with.

I like Dan's History podcast but his Common Sense podcast seems strangely naive most of the time.

i dont agree with him a lot but i still like to hear a his opinion on things because they are often different from mine.

 

[Raven117]

Again, I don't really believe this "tone deaf" bullshit. Watching a DVR'd show last night, I saw a Hillary ad (in CA no less, where she doesn't even need to advertise) that was bsaically entirely "I'm working for hard middle class families". It had the word "family" in it I swear a hundred times, so maybe that focus was a bit off.

But I think in general these people just stuck their fingers in their ears at her message and refused to listen. I'm not saying that's not on her. She didn't sell herself. Her people did an awful job selling her. They wound up letting Trump drive the narrative. They fucked up. But I don't think she was tone deaf to middle America.

i.e. I'll be pissed, but not surprised, based on the analysis I'm seeing now, if the next election is more of the same. "We have a great message! I don't know why people aren't listening!" Its cause you've done an awful job telling them about it.

The point that the Ad was aired in CA makes my point a bit.

I don't disagree with anything you are saying. Its lots of things. Ultimately...she was the wrong person to run for the Democrats.
So...So many things went wrong.

 

[SneakersSO]

I understand that people are hurting. What I don't understand is why Trump's negative outlook drew them to him when it was so trivially pointed out that he's been Mr. Cheap Foreign goods and labor. Why propping up dead industries is more appealing than helping the workers find more stable long term opportunities. Why he could lie to their face and exhibit so many flaws of character, demeanor, preparedness, and judgment (when the only trait you can even possibly remotely hold against hillary is her judgment, but it wasn't nearly as bad as Trump's), and how little those things actually matter for the most powerful, difficult, dangerous, and important job in the world.

I just can't believe people got duped despite how much of a complete asshole, buffoon, and snake oil salesman Trump was exposed for every day of the campaign. It's like the Democrats are held to the standards of...fucking obama, fdr, Teddy, and Lincoln, and the Republicans are held to the standards of honey boo boo

I dunno if I can find it right now, but I actually think Joe Biden answered your first point as to 'why would these people vote for a figure who is previously utilized the things that are hurting them?', and again, it speaks to why Clinton lost those voters.

Its a clip where Biden explains on MSNBC that he felt that Dems were losing WWC voters in rural America, particularly in PA. And he goes on to explain that all those rural voters want is someone to come out & talk to them. They just want someone to come out and listen to their grievances. HRC's campaign spent very little time & resources on rural America, and that is precisely why they lost those WWC votes. There are articles where aides were choosing to target other demographics on purpose, rather than reinforcing their hold on WWC voters in Rust Belt states.

Trump spent an inordinate amount of time in Rust Belt states, talking to those voters, and Clinton didn't. They just needed to be talked to.

 

[takriel]

Never doubt the power of human ignorance and selfishness.

whereby ignorance is a prettier word for pure stupidity.

 

[ReadingRambo]

whereby ignorance is a prettier word for pure stupidity.

You call people whose vote you need stupid, and wonder why you lost.

 

[joe2187]

You call people whose vote you need stupid, and wonder why you lost.

The vote we needed wasnt the people who voted for trump, it was the 50% of america who didnt vote.

 

[acheron_xl]

i dont agree with him a lot but i still like to hear a his opinion on things because they are often different from mine.

I've agreed almost in lockstep with Dan for years, to the point that I've usually read the exact same articles (excepting his local paper stories) and come to the same conclusions he has by the time his episodes drop.

When he has put out CS content this election cycle though, it's been so thoroughly in the 'both sides are bad' camp, that I've been a wee bit sad about it.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

The vote we needed wasnt the people who voted for trump, it was the 50% of america who didnt vote.

and how do you know of that 50% who didn't vote, that none of them are offended by liberals calling Trump voters stupid?

 

[MUnited83]

You call people whose vote you need stupid, and wonder why you lost.

The vote that were needed wasn't from those irreedemable idiots. The votes that were needed were the ones from the people that didn't bother to vote.

 

[paperboywriter]

I've agreed almost in lockstep with Dan for years, to the point that I've usually read the exact same articles (excepting his local paper stories) and come to the same conclusions he has by the time his episodes drop.

When he has put out CS content this election cycle though, it's been so thoroughly in the 'both sides are bad' camp, that I've been a wee bit sad about it.

well sure, but that should not be a reason to dismiss an opinion completely.

 

[mbpm1]

What percentage of voters typically abstain from voting anyways

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Guy at work today was handing out peppers that he grew and went to give one to a Hispanic woman who sits by me.

"Here, you obviously like these."

"Why obviously?"

"Because you're Mexican."

#TrumpsAmerica

 

[Beerman462]

I'm sure it's already been posted, but this guy here.

Donald Trump’s win was predicted by Allan Lichtman — the US election expert who has called every result since 1984

Crazy. Will anyone doubt this guy in 4 years?