Lina has nothing to do with what the Slayer is about? Hate to break it to you but there's a reason she's called that.
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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
- Thread starter Swag
- Start date
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The problem is a lot fo the new names just sound lame, and thats coming from someone that doesnt have a history with the original.
Woah, the fucking bone king doesn't have to put up with this shit. On your knees peasant and bow before your king.
Manliest man ever
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/612720018441471819/F44D2C94BDADBF08C4E1D555A341E223507A2D50/
It was fun to support this Riki. The AM was solo mid, but the Riki in my lane was still outleveling him by quite a bit. Most of the deaths I did have were situations where I died so that the carry could get 2-3 kills. This is what a good support does, right?
It was fun to support this Riki. The AM was solo mid, but the Riki in my lane was still outleveling him by quite a bit. Most of the deaths I did have were situations where I died so that the carry could get 2-3 kills. This is what a good support does, right?
That's not true. I have on more than one occasion taken all the newer players on my team and have players like Swag/Archie/Tom/Batang/x3/+++ stack up on the other team. The only times it really gets stacked is when we don't have enough GAFfers to play so I pull in my friends from Dota1 (HyunA, tSwiftxo_, and 1.09 are the most common ones), and they're going to want to play on my team. And lately I've been picking more support in inhouses to give players more breathing room. I agree that we should probably decide who is going mid beforehand though.
Actually I was full, I had tps/smoke/wards constantly so I couldn't fit that in.
Sorry ;_;
I still don't know how to make use of Smoke Effectively. Could you do something like mock backdoor the enemy, where you are aggressively pushing the lane but they can't see you, and may not notice it till you are at the tower?
I guess it is meant for you to do something like a 5 man gank, or maybe do Roshan without the enemy team seeing you go into his den?
I guess it is meant for you to do something like a 5 man gank, or maybe do Roshan without the enemy team seeing you go into his den?
woah slow the fuck down. Lich and Skeleking worse than Lion and Weaver? oh shiiiit.
yeah, smoke is 100% for avoiding wards, either with multiiman ganks or going into roshan.
It's a super versatile item. It's great for setting up ganks because you're invisible to observer wards while under the smoke buff, but that's only the most obvious usage of it. You can use it to Rosh without being seen (although good players will sniff out that something is up when they see no one on the minimap). You can use it to fake ganks -- I do this with Pudge a lot where I'll head down to, say, bottom lane while in view of someone, then use smoke and go up to top lane or back to mid lane to get a kill. Remember that you get increased movement speed with it, so at a certain distance you can use it to either catch up to enemies or to run away from enemies, too. Awesome for supports who need to safely ward the enemy jungle as they can penetrate their forest without being seen (placing wards and casting spells does not break smoke).
And like you pointed out, fantastic for starting team clashes since you practically get the jump on them.
And like you pointed out, fantastic for starting team clashes since you practically get the jump on them.
Warding, now there is a use I never thought of using smoke for, and that sounds super useful. Though you should likely still only do it in the day, because at night the reveal range is higher then the night vision range.
Do you think a 0 minute smoke and warding up the enemy jungle would be worth it at all? 300 gold for Smoke and Ward, grab 3 Iron Branchs and a Tango? Or just hold off till maybe the second day at like 12 minutes before doing that.
Playdota.com would likely be the best place. Jump into a bot game and play around, and watch a bit at what the bots do.
Do you think a 0 minute smoke and warding up the enemy jungle would be worth it at all? 300 gold for Smoke and Ward, grab 3 Iron Branchs and a Tango? Or just hold off till maybe the second day at like 12 minutes before doing that.
Playdota.com would likely be the best place. Jump into a bot game and play around, and watch a bit at what the bots do.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Purge's tutorials are excellent. Long, but explains the do's and dont's of the game really well.
Watch the first one here.
Man, I should really get back to playing this. I can't wait to experience this team stacking for myself. Making most of HoNGAF rage over something they told me to chill out with at times when I was getting salty?
That's an achievement right there!
But srsly, I really need to get back to DoTA. You guys generally are on all day?
That's an achievement right there!
But srsly, I really need to get back to DoTA. You guys generally are on all day?
Buy the recommended items. That's what I've been doing this whole time so I don't fret over what I should keep and what I shouldn't keep.
Edit: Just to clarify something before the vets rip off my head, I'd recommend buying the recommended items for a while just to wet your feet a bit.
There's a bunch of guides that will tell you what items to buy that are better suited for different play-styles.
Man, I should really get back to playing this. I can't wait to experience this team stacking for myself. Making most of HoNGAF rage over something they told me to chill out with at times when I was getting salty?
That's an achievement right there!
But srsly, I really need to get back to DoTA. You guys generally are on all day?
DOESN'T HELP WHEN PLAYERS LIKE KAGETE OUTRIGHT REFUSE TO PLAY INHOUSES NOW
But yeah, generally everyone is on during the day, I think most players are on at around 7pm+ PST though. At least that's what I notice looking at the GAF channel and mumble.
In houses are fine but the hour long face stomps that are next to impossible to counter are particularly discouraging. It's certainly not as bad as wandering into a random game with a half a dozen assholes, but still a little droll after a while if you keep ending up on the receiving end.
There have a been a bunch of IHs that have seen one or two experienced players (ie. you) leading a team of moderate and new players; those are nice since the newers guys benefit from coordinated play and gets to work with the team without being non stop bait for the whole game.
I'm surprised people don't full party up more often and go pubbing more often; you get a lot of stomps but also some good competitive games as well when you run into another group.
Balancing IH is pretty tricky, and it's even harder at the moment as people have no clue about most peoples skill level. Though there are plenty of times when it's obvious that the teams are stacked.
You should play with Thor sometime.
You should play with Thor sometime.
Freakinchair
Member
Someone made a script so the PlayDota guides use the Dota2 icons, http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/nsey8/playdota_to_playdota2_conversion_script/
Only because it needs greasemonkey. Somoene needs to port it to Chrome
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Pretty sure after the going into heroes things Naix became one of the best heroes in the game period.
Normally beta threads stay until the game is out, but given that this beta could be on for years at the rate Valve is adding heroes, we will probably treat the Open Beta launch as the game's launch and then count from there.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
So, I just got this and it's my very first exposure to the entire genre of ... whatever they call this type of game? DOTA clone? I dunno.
Anyway. Poked around the OP and tried a cursory glance over the materials on the offical site, but it all seems to be geared toward people with a passing familiarity. No problem, I thought to myself. I'll just load up a game and populate it with bots (This is when I discovered it's a MP game...good to know.)
Anybody got a good link to a tutorial on the how to do very basic things? I tried buying a healing potion, but I think I needed a different type of gold that what I have? Maybe I didn't equip it?
In any event, the bots destroyed my face so badly that I am officially begging for some basic help. Like, the help above the step above "this is a mouse. you click it do to stuff."
Help?
Anyway. Poked around the OP and tried a cursory glance over the materials on the offical site, but it all seems to be geared toward people with a passing familiarity. No problem, I thought to myself. I'll just load up a game and populate it with bots (This is when I discovered it's a MP game...good to know.)
Anybody got a good link to a tutorial on the how to do very basic things? I tried buying a healing potion, but I think I needed a different type of gold that what I have? Maybe I didn't equip it?
In any event, the bots destroyed my face so badly that I am officially begging for some basic help. Like, the help above the step above "this is a mouse. you click it do to stuff."
Help?
Well, since you can't Call Dota a Dota Clone, I like calling the Genre Dota-Like.
To buy items, right click them. The item is then in your inventory, which is displayed in the bottom right. You can hold 6 items at once. Items that you can activate can be done so by ether clicking them, or hitting their hotkey. Some items, like a Health Potoin, you can left click on who you want to apply it on, or double click it to use it. If you get hit while healing, the effect goes away. The other main healing item, Tango, you click on it, then you click on a tree, then you eat the tree and slowly regain life. Got to do a 3 hour drive now, but there is something.
To buy items, right click them. The item is then in your inventory, which is displayed in the bottom right. You can hold 6 items at once. Items that you can activate can be done so by ether clicking them, or hitting their hotkey. Some items, like a Health Potoin, you can left click on who you want to apply it on, or double click it to use it. If you get hit while healing, the effect goes away. The other main healing item, Tango, you click on it, then you click on a tree, then you eat the tree and slowly regain life. Got to do a 3 hour drive now, but there is something.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Appreciate the start. Anybody feel like beating up on new player while giving some pointers, my Steam name is the same as this one.
I just checked out the video above, and I'm sure it'll make sense when I pick up the lingo, but right now, it's pretty much gibberish.
I am excited about figuring this out though...heh. The game from what I can tell from watching is really pretty intense.
I've played with a lot of dota2 gaffers and I've noticed that too many people are pretending they're not good so people will have lowered expectations of them. We really can't balance any IH well right now since not everyone is on the same voice channel and there are no publicly visible stats to help us out. If it's an IH that is created for the explicit purpose of helping new guys out I will try to play or rather just coach a guy via matchmaking, but if someone tryhards a game where a few players are spending the first few minutes asking for friendly pointers or where to go because they've only played a couple of games then I'm sorry but I don't have the 45+ minutes to spare for a stomp where you have players with more than a thousand games under their belt face off against <10 game newbies.
I feel like those videos and guides are geared for people who understand the basics but just need to learn strategy. Are there any guides that will teach me as if I've never used a computer mouse before?
Edit: Homeboy a few posts up is asking the same thing, hello there fellow noob. We should get together some time
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Lol. At least I'm not alone.
Okay, so a really basic rundown of the game would be this:
Essentially, the game is a class based 5v5 battle in which the goal is to destroy the other team's main base.
To do this though, you first have to do a variety of things.
Step 1: Picking a hero.
Each hero fills one (or more) of a variety of roles. These roles include:
Carry: This is a hero that starts out weak, but by earning a lot of gold quickly throughout the match, becomes powerful enough to defeat multiple other players at once. In order do fulfill their role, they usually require a large amount of expensive items. Getting this gold can come from either killing enemy heroes, having the killing blow on a creep (the NPC units that charge up the three lanes), or killing neutral enemies in the area between the lanes.
Support: This is a hero that tends to enhance the abilities of other heroes either by having their abilities combo with other heroes well, or actually having abilities such as heals and buffs. They also tend to require far fewer items to be effective, though are usually not able to defeat multiple other heroes (or, in some cases, even one depending on who the opponent is). These heroes also tend to use their money to buy items that benefit the entire team instead of just themselves.
Ganker: These heroes focus primarily on killing other heroes quickly, especially when they catch them alone or off guard. Every time someone kills a hero, they get a lot of experience and gold, and the person who dies loses gold, so their goal is to kill as many heroes as possible early to cause their team to be of a higher level than the enemy.
Initiator: These heroes focus on stunning and disabling enemy heroes in a way that allows their team to enter a fight with an advantage. Towers do a lot of damage early in the game, and many heroes can do damage very quickly, so having an initiator can make a team have a huge advantage when determining the outcome of a major fight. Since respawn times can be very long in Dota, winning team fights not only gives you a gold and experience bonus, but allows you to make significant progress toward your goal of killing the enemy's main base.
Pusher: These heroes essentially focus on being able to kill towers quickly early on in the game. Towers do a lot of damage, but also give out a lot of money when killed, which gives your team a good item advantage early on.
In general, it is easiest to start out with a hero who is a support, since they are generally the least item dependent and thus can be effective even without the ability to generate gold quickly.
Step 2: Playing the game.
The most common way for the game to start is for two heroes to to the top/left lane, two heroes to go to the bottom/right lane, and for one hero to go to the middle lane. Barring people in the side lanes killing the enemy heroes quite frequently, whoever is in the middle lane will level up faster than the people in the side lanes.
The main focus of this phase of the game is for the carry to farm a lot of gold, and for everyone else to try not to die while gaining as much experience as possible.
If you can get early hero kills, that's great, but when you first start out, it is much more important to focus on not dying. Your ideal scenario is to be sitting between the third tower on your side and the third tower on their side for as much time as possible, because you only get experience when you are in range of things that are dying. Dying or going back to town thus stops your leveling.
As the game progresses, your goal is to slowly kill the three towers in each of the lanes, as well as the two barracks at the end of each lane. Once those barracks die, the power of your NPC allies in that lane increases, and it allows you to push further into their base and eventually kill their main building.
However, during the middle of the game, you will eventually exit the "laning phase" where you are split 2/1/2 across the lanes and instead enter a phase where you travel in larger groups of 3 to 5 in an effort to try and win large battles against the enemy team and kill towers quickly. In this phase, whoever did a better job at gaining experience and gold in the previous phase will have an advantage, but the skill of the players and their ability to work together will still play a large role in determining the victor of each fight.
There is a lot more depth to it than that, but for now, I think that's enough to try messing around with the basics in practice mode.
As for sample heroes who are good for beginning players, I'll get back to you on that in a moment.
Edit:
Yeah, the below two guides (especially the second) does a better job explaining which heroes are good choices to start with than I will.
There is also these two total newbie guides which go into a lot more detail than me:
http://www.playdota.com/guides/masterjas-total-newbie-guide
http://www.playdota.com/guides/welcome-to-dota-you-suck
http://www.playdota.com/guides/masterjas-total-newbie-guide
http://www.playdota.com/guides/welcome-to-dota-you-suck
Togglesworlh
Banned
It might just be they're underestimating their own abilities, rather than "pretending". (Unless you have specific examples of people you know are actually good.)
I don't think I'm good, and I frequently say so, but then I tend to do well during those games where I actually call myself out, so it's horrible. I'm inconsistent.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Niro, you keep proving to be the best mod around. Thanks, that was just what I was looking for.
Thanks, Nirolak. I still have some more specific questions, if you'd be willing to answer. Has the thread officially clicked over into newbie talk for the next little while or should I send my questions privately?
Things like: (a) I know you right click to buy an item, but sometimes the items go to a new floating menu called Stash. The heck is that about? (b) When the game starts, do I just immediately buy all of the Starting items? (c) The suggested items are arranged in sections like Starting/Early Game/Core, but how do I know when to go back and transition from one of those "phases" to the next? (d) I have played a few games against the computer and I honestly don't understand how to stay alive. I feel like I get one-shotted constantly from out of the blue, and I don't understand how to regain HP without running back to the base. Same with attack strength, I never feel like I'm doing very much damage at all when I attack, but the enemies will just slaughter me. I know I'm missing something there. (e) Should I avoid direct confrontation when possible? I naturally want to engage in battle as soon as I see an enemy hero, is there some kind of unspoken rule that both side keep their distance unless something's going down?
That's all I can think of from the top of my head, though I know I have lots more while I'm actually playing
Things like: (a) I know you right click to buy an item, but sometimes the items go to a new floating menu called Stash. The heck is that about? (b) When the game starts, do I just immediately buy all of the Starting items? (c) The suggested items are arranged in sections like Starting/Early Game/Core, but how do I know when to go back and transition from one of those "phases" to the next? (d) I have played a few games against the computer and I honestly don't understand how to stay alive. I feel like I get one-shotted constantly from out of the blue, and I don't understand how to regain HP without running back to the base. Same with attack strength, I never feel like I'm doing very much damage at all when I attack, but the enemies will just slaughter me. I know I'm missing something there. (e) Should I avoid direct confrontation when possible? I naturally want to engage in battle as soon as I see an enemy hero, is there some kind of unspoken rule that both side keep their distance unless something's going down?
That's all I can think of from the top of my head, though I know I have lots more while I'm actually playing
I have some examples but these people know who they're are. I'm sure they just don't want to feel like people should have great expectations from them but honestly these are veteran players that know what they're doing. I'm fine with playing with them in matchmaking because if you have low expectations of them, at least they can be pleasant surprises when they rape faces.
When playing an IH, you can't have sandbaggers like that who refuse to speak up and even say the same lines that completely new players type in chat. Something like "Ah sorry but I'm really new to this game LOL be gentle." Yeah right, and they get to lane against a new player who takes 3-5 minutes to walk to where he needs to go once the game starts. For an IH to work, everyone's expectations have to be set accordingly so that everyone is on the same page. Either only new players play together, or only veteran players go together. I like that there are people like Lirlond and HyunA that flat out say they're good because you can at least balance around them given the chance.
Everyone's perception of skill is further skewed by one-off screenshots of an IH scoreboard where everyone agreed that the teams were imbalanced to begin with. IH games are terrible things by themselves and can really break a community or shut people out. For them to work, they need to be ongoing and you need to take the lessons learned from the previous game and balance around that for the second, third, fourth, and fifth games right after. Someone's salty? Don't take it to the thread by calling people out or fanning the flames with your neat KDR. Try to balance the teams better and then run it back. Just keep playing and playing I guess.
Oh by all means feel free to ask in here.
This is essentially a storage bin for items that aren't on your characters. In order to buy an item from a shop and have it go directly into your inventory, you have to be next to the shop you are buying the item from. The shops are the portly guys who wear a green fez hat, and the one you will buy most of your items from is the one who is next to where you start the game. To get an item from your stash that you buy while you are in a lane, you have to walk back to the start areas and click "grab all".
However, there is something known as a courier in the game, which is essentially a pack mule that you can use to transfer items you buy while in the lane from your stash to your character's inventory. The way in which you do this is buy buying the courier from the shop and using it, which puts it into the game as a controllable unit. Then, after you buy an item from the shop while in a lane, you select the courier and press the retrieve items button, and then the transfer items button, at which point the courier will walk to your hero, put the item in your inventory, and then walk back to base.
If you're doing this in a practice game, the bots will buy a courier as soon as the game starts, and will never use it themselves, which means that you never have to worry about someone else using the courier you are currently trying to use. These things can die, but it is very unlikely in a practice game.
For now yes. Later you will likely want to follow a PlayDota guide in terms of the items you should buy, but while learning the basics, Valve's suggestions work well enough.
Essentially you buy them as you have the money to buy them, and then either go pick them up or have your courier bring them to you. The latter is generally preferable.
For the order within those tiers, just grab them in the order they are listed for now, and when you feel comfortable, use the order a guide suggests instead.
This can depend on a lot of factors. For early game health regeneration, you will often have suggested starting items like "tangoes" and "healing salve" which you can use to heal while in the lane.
However, the other approach is to just try and avoid damage. A big part of the early phase in Dota is trying to damage enemy heroes while not taking damage yourself, as this forces them to return to their base temporarily and not gain experience while you do.
As for your damage output, that is determined by the hero you are playing and what they are good at. Some heroes are very poor at dealing damage because they primarily just enable other heroes to kill people more easily, while other heroes are very poor at dealing damage early and only deal a lot of damage later if they have good items.
If you want to deal good damage early, try a Ganker, though remember that this likely means you have less survivability.
One thing that is also helpful to doing more damage is to look at a guide for the hero you want to try and look at what order they suggest getting skills. Especially for Gankers, they will usually lead you to choose skills that will let you kill other enemies heroes early on, or at least do a lot of damage.
When starting, generally you have to gain 3-6 levels before you have a good chance at killing people, so you kind of do this awkward dance where the heroes try to get the killing blows on the NPCs in the lane to gain gold and hit each other to force the other heroes back to their base to heal.
Trying to kill each other more frequently tends to happen around level 9 and upward when you have a couple of abilities maximized.
There are exceptions to this, but using this as a rule of thumb should help out early.
Feel free to ask if anything else comes to mind.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Well, baby steps! I just killed my first enemy. Of course, he had killed me something like 8 times in a row, but still.
It helps knowing about the inventory and stash thing. I tried playing as Earthshaker for a while and completely got obliterated. I'm doing better as Windrunner. Think I'll stick with gankers for a while.
It helps knowing about the inventory and stash thing. I tried playing as Earthshaker for a while and completely got obliterated. I'm doing better as Windrunner. Think I'll stick with gankers for a while.
a) The Stash is where an item goes if you are not in range of the shop. The reason for buying items away from the shop does two things: 1) Saves time going to and from lane, by using the courier you can ferry items from the shop to yourself which maximises the time you spend in lane. and 2) It uses gold. In general walking around with a large amount of gold is a bad thing. Because on death you lose a % of your gold. It's not a fixed rate, so having a lot of gold means you'll lose more on death than spending it.
b) Unless you are a support then yes. If you are the support pick up the courier or wards, and then whatever else you can afford.
c) This is a rule of thumb but try and follow theses timings: You want to get your starting items first obviously, a number of these may build into your early or core items.
Early items are to be bought as soon as you have the money available. There are a few exceptions but generally picking up boots asap will make a huge difference laning.
Core items are to be attempted to be bought before the laning phase ends. These are items that increase the ability of your hero by a lot, and your hero will make use of these items in the best possible way. For example, diffusal blade on Rikimaru; not only does this item give a large boost to agility, which scales his passive, it allows you to remove all buffs from an enemy and slow, which allows you to catch up to a foe you are chasing, or remove all debuffs from an ally, which allows you to remove for example, Slardars armor reduction and sight debuff.
Luxury items are /only/ to be picked up after your core items(there are exceptions, but as a rule of thumb this is correct) and depending on the enemy team you pick and choose from these items as you see fit. These items are generally the most expensive in the game, and give gratuitous buffs to your hero.
d) Health: Regen is determined by both your strength and any regen items you have. The only way to heal without regen items or high strength, is to use a health pot or a tango. Which heal you hero a set amount.
Damage and being ganked: The only way to avoid being ganked is through the use of wards, having vision of the map will show you that the enemy team is moving to attack another player. The reason you may feel you don't do a lot of damage is due to the nature of spells in this game. Spells hit hard. Very hard. There are a number of spells which can deal 1000+ damage. The downside is of course that they use large amounts of mana and have long cooldowns. Spells always deal a fixed amount, and most do not scale at all(There are exceptions, but this is true for 90% of casters). Magic armor is more expensive than ordinary armor and does not stack with itself(except with AM and Pudge and Viper, who's passives give magic armor). Now physical damage on the other hand starts out /very/ low. The difference is that physical damage scales as the game progresses. End game with no items the average hero will deal around 140 phys damage per auto-attack every second or so. Whereas a carry with items will deal around 250 phys damage, excluding crits, per auto-attack at around 3 attacks per second. So early game, spell casters have the advantage damage wise, but late game a farmed carry will have enough hp or defensive utility, to soak up any spell damage, and then deal consistent damage to an enemy.
e) Team fights happen in a variety of ways, and one of the easiest ways to force a team fight is to push a tower. Normally people will try to push and farm throughout the entire game. Since the goal is of course destroying the enemy base. As you will want to push, the enemy team will want to stop pushes; the only way to do this is to fight under a tower to ensure the enemy team does not destroy your tower. Other than pushing towers team fights can take place when one team attempts to gank the other teams carry, who then show up to defend him. This is because the carry will want to farm, but the enemy team want to kill him, denying him gold, xp and the ability to participate in fights until he respawns. Outside of these two situations, team fighting is rare, there are exception but this is generally when fights go down.
Smaller 2v1 or 1v1 fights will happen all over the map as heroes run into each other. Generally it's a bad idea to engage on your own, because the enemy team could be nearby. Resulting in a death for yourself.
Don't know if I've answered your questions very well, let me know if you need some more clarification.
Procarbine
Forever Platinum
Man, I should really get back to playing this. I can't wait to experience this team stacking for myself. Making most of HoNGAF rage over something they told me to chill out with at times when I was getting salty?
That's an achievement right there!
But srsly, I really need to get back to DoTA. You guys generally are on all day?
HoNGAF doesn't play in dota IH really, we just do MM groups.
Maybe you wouldn't be so salty if you weren't so ez. cyacyacyaycyacyaycya
easiest game of my life
Togglesworlh
Banned
I agree, and that's why I avoided them for the longest time. Then I just decided to go in not giving a shit and I had more fun (even when I randomed Chen, undoubtedly the worst possible choice for me because I am the worst Starcraft player in the history of history). It sucks for people who want good, evenly-matched games, though.
Just thought I'd expand on this a bit. It's not an unspoken rule to not engage each other, it's that no one wants to die that early. You get extra gold if you get the first kill the in game, so people tend to be extra cautious. Experienced players will be able to immediately gauge whether they will be able to kill the opposing heroes in their lane without dying, or vice versa, and this determines how passive or aggressive you will be playing. To answer the original question, there are no unspoken rules or codes of honor against anything. If you think you can get a kill cleanly, then do it anytime. There is no rule of thumb for when action begins, some games will have high kill counts early, some won't, it's just the nature of the players and the team compositions.
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