I'd honestly rather face someone's Chen versus facing a good AM player.
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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
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Phantom Lancer!!
They don't even have all the heroes in yet.
(only counting vl1at and joinDota streams)if you are facing a good chen like maelk or puppey then obviously it would be just as bad
nah pl isnt top tier stuff
true but you have to consider that a big number of heroes in the pool are not even used.
After the single team stomp last game by your own team using AM.
And noticing the team that did get stomped didn't ban him, meant they were going to pick him. They sure as fuck aren't going to let you get them again.
How so?
Well, you see, the difference between a Chen and an AM, when facing an AM you have to have very well thought out, well executed strategies, lest you let him farm and dare I say it's almost always a loss. Chen doesn't have that effect, he's recoverable, AM isn't unless you pool all your resources into dealing with him once he's taken off, and at that point, you leave the other 4 heroes un-pressured.
Granted I haven't seen Maelk play Chen recently.
Zeus and Razor just got picked, Zeus and Razor.
He's top tier for fun!
close to the edge
Member
Oooh, a Zeus pick! This should be good.
It's almost impossibile to stop his farm and he's great at pushing and at ganking, at least with AM if you kill him early a couple of times he's not gonna be a threat for a lot of time.
Then again, i'm just a noob so my opinion is worth next to nothing (really not ironic).
throwawayname
Member
Oh shit, this is going to be interesting.
Because AM just has his autoattack and his ult while Furion still has the treants, the sprout and the tp to push so he's a little less farm dependent.
also holy shit, 4 kills at the one minute mark.
That turn-around was really good. Also this Furion, is doing some work
Quelling Blade to clear Sprout / AoE abilities to clear Treants, but you do have a point. He is more effective without items early.
pgg finally showing why his teams are usually called pgg+4
maelk is competitively inactive but he is coming back at some point.
With am in your team, you need to dump resources to this am so you are making sure he farms well. Otherwise he will have a rough time. With a chen, you dont know when they are going to gank you. Sure you can ward that but a competent team will counter ward you
my point still stands
agreed
When you say dump resources into AM, are you talking about the CM / Wards that sat with him bottom? Because comparatively the 3 (2??) heroes that ganked him bottom when he nearly escaped but fucked up his blink seem a lot more, and he was level 9 at that point, and didn't even go Vanguard.
And every carry needs resources and support in order to do well, why is this different or harder for AM, compared to Spectre for example?
Like I said, even with ganks early, Chen is at least recoverable. A farmed AM?
I forgot to mention Drow
throwawayname
Member
This game was over since they let Dendi pick CM and he forgot to buy chicken.
And of course the Furion pick.
And of course the Furion pick.
Get rid of the Battlefury, your damage comes from Counter-Helix so you don't need lots of auto attack damage, get a Vanguard -> Blink Dagger so you can initiate, the Assault Cuiress isn't that bad though as it lowers your damage taken, Axe is a tank so build defensive items.
I think LoL has tanks right? I remember people referred to some heroes as tanks.
I've been trying Earthshaker but I'm having troubles with items.
For starters I just buy some clarity potions, branches, tango and a magic stick.
I then buy the recipe for magic wand for 150 as soon as I can afford it.
Then I just lane until I can afford boots and then I immediately save up for energy booster ( or w/e it is called ) so I can finish the arcane boots.
Here's the part I hate.
People tell me to buy blinkdagger ( this isn't what I hate btw
), which I for some doesn't click as well with me on ES as it does with for example Axe but I digress, for 2150. The huge problem for me is that by now I have like a health regen of a measly 1 point or something. In other words if I take any kind of damage, be it some shitty creep hitting me or me getting harassed by ranged heroes, I stay at that unless I want to waste money on health items or worse gamble and risk dying.
And by now people start running around and kill eachother, which means for me as an initiator I'm going to run into fights and die because that's pretty much what happens every game we play.
Now I lose money, I lose the prospect of xp, and I'm still saving up for a blink dagger with only arcane boots and a wand in my inventory. I can't just farm back what I've "lost" in the jungle because again my hp regen is nonexistant so after 2-3 camps of mobs I'm at 10% life even if I spam fissure and use arcane boots.. By now people have leveled past me and the gap is just going to get bigger and bigger as the game progresses and I'm just going to hate my life.
For starters I just buy some clarity potions, branches, tango and a magic stick.
I then buy the recipe for magic wand for 150 as soon as I can afford it.
Then I just lane until I can afford boots and then I immediately save up for energy booster ( or w/e it is called ) so I can finish the arcane boots.
Here's the part I hate.
People tell me to buy blinkdagger ( this isn't what I hate btw
), which I for some doesn't click as well with me on ES as it does with for example Axe but I digress, for 2150. The huge problem for me is that by now I have like a health regen of a measly 1 point or something. In other words if I take any kind of damage, be it some shitty creep hitting me or me getting harassed by ranged heroes, I stay at that unless I want to waste money on health items or worse gamble and risk dying. And by now people start running around and kill eachother, which means for me as an initiator I'm going to run into fights and die because that's pretty much what happens every game we play.
Now I lose money, I lose the prospect of xp, and I'm still saving up for a blink dagger with only arcane boots and a wand in my inventory. I can't just farm back what I've "lost" in the jungle because again my hp regen is nonexistant so after 2-3 camps of mobs I'm at 10% life even if I spam fissure and use arcane boots.. By now people have leveled past me and the gap is just going to get bigger and bigger as the game progresses and I'm just going to hate my life.
am/spectre require more attention than say sylla/lycan. It isn't just about wards. Its also about tping whenever you think he will get ganked and making sure he lives. If it cost you 2 tps and 2 heroes for him to get out then it is the price you have to pay. Though, if it's impossible to save him then obviously you are not going to help him
chen is a good support that doesnt require items. He may be disposable but it doesnt change the fact that a good chen will often be there for what you need
yeah so? drow is picked ocassionally
Think of Axe as Galio or Rammus.
I usually get dagger before arcane boots. It's just more important to have early dagger than it is to have early mana regen (if you desperately need it, get a ring of Basilus instead since ES' int is pretty low). ES is not supposed to be spamming his nukes whenever possible. Once you get blink dagger, you can start roaming with your allies for ganks and round out your items with assists.People tell me to buy blinkdagger ( this isn't what I hate btw
You shouldn't expect to have much more than Arcane Boots + Magic Wand + Blink dagger, unless someone else is being wardbitch.
close to the edge
Member
Wow, offensive GG from TR. Not cool.
That sort of shit would not fly in SC2.
That sort of shit would not fly in SC2.
throwawayname
Member
Stupid pick by NaVi = gg. They nerfed their own Dendi.
Did not see this happening, Gz TR.
TR style, not their first time being sort of bm.
Two things:
1. Drow silence is good to stop Tidehunter from getting off Ravage.
2. Picking Spectre against a push lineup is suicide.
PantherAttacks
Member
Great aggressive start to that last game!
I was just talking about the current available pool, again TPing to save a carry holds true for every single carry, you would do the same whether it was an AM or a Sniper or a Viper. Also, I don't understand, a good any support will do what you need them to do, how does that change the fact that it's easier to recover from that then a good AM, also what support requires items to be effective, other then Warlock or Necrolyte ( don't know why he's listed under support ).
I didn't know Razor Agahnim's was that effective, it's amazingly good at pushing, does Assault Cuiress lower towers armor?
I believe it does.
LoL has tanks, yes. The builds in that game are so much more linear and simple though, so it's kind of dazing coming over to this and trying to figure out what's what. I see people with Iron Branch's x4 and I am just so lost by it. lol. My frame of reference to this game is strictly all LoL with some hazy memories of the one time I played Dota at a friends DLP. xD
I thought Counter Helix might stack with the Bfury though, that's why I went with that. I'll def take Vangaurd with blink over the Assualt Cuiress, my logic was: more cleave procs = win.
But yes Blink dagger sounds amazing. (now that I know what it even is lol, ty)
And now I am on the wiki plotting away with item builds.
Ah okay, I figured that would be more effective then spending money on a Aghanims, cause at least you get the attack speed, and minus armor, for just a little more 4200 vs 5150 (??)
I'm not sure how often GAF In Houses occur now, but they used to be a really good place to try out item builds / heroes, dunno if your in the GAF channel but thats a good place to ask about stuff, Mumble probably being the best though.
It also boosts your own tower's armor, so yeah pretty awesome item.
Yeah works the same way in HoN
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