Support NeoGAF

[close to the edge]

I wouldn't agree that a support's contributions become less important later in the game. Wards are great at any point in the game, smoke is always nice as well and so on. The support character's abilities might not scale so well, but even then, a well-placed stun or slow is always useful.

 

[Detox]

I need tips on how to play Clockwerk, I don't understand what he is supposed to be doing in team-fights especially the cogs, all they do is trap me against a hero who will 9/10 kill me with autoattack.

 

[ksan]

nvm lol

 

[BeesEight]

What these complaints really amount to is "why are bad players bad?", and the answer to that is obvious.

So why are bad players bad?

I really need to find a pre-made team. I want to practice some push strats but it's impossible to do with the Neanderthals that populate solo mm. It would be nice to just roll over those teams of 5 carries in twenty minutes.

I wouldn't agree that a support's contributions become less important later in the game. Wards are great at any point in the game, smoke is always nice as well and so on. The support character's abilities might not scale so well, but even then, a well-placed stun or slow is always useful.

But they do. Even wards become less important as your carry starts to become capable of winning 1v5. A support never becomes irrelevant (between disables, utility items and the aforementioned warding) but they aren't anywhere near as important as the early-mid.

 

[L0g1c]

unfortunately clockwork IMO need some serious work in DOTA2 i LOVED pharaoh in HON but when i began to play DOTA2 and boy was it disappointing. I am also looking for people to play with but i am on call for my job so my hours are awkward.

 

[ksan]

unfortunately clockwork IMO need some serious work in DOTA2 i LOVED pharaoh in HON but when i began to play DOTA2 and boy was it disappointing. I am also looking for people to play with but i am on call for my job so my hours are awkward.

HoN logic at its finest.

I guess that you have problems with the cogs, right? Or that's what I heard from friends who are HoN players.

 

[Sibylus]

zNation versus DTS just entered the draft.

 

[Archie]

Pharaoh's cogs/ult are instant whereas Clockwerk has a cast time with those spells.

But yeah, Pharaoh shits on Clockwerk in the fun department .

 

[kazabi]

I'm currently 45-15 with clock but I haven't played as him in a while. Pharaoh might be a much easier hero to play, but I don't think that makes clock a bad hero. I just takes some more practice to get good with him. Cog isn't that hard to use after a few games playing as him.

I need tips on how to play Clockwerk, I don't understand what he is supposed to be doing in team-fights especially the cogs, all they do is trap me against a hero who will 9/10 kill me with autoattack.

The best way to engage a team fight as clock is to try to hook a support, pop battery assault and cog around him/her while your team attacks in directly after you. That support wont be able to do much that team fight and you should be able to bring that hero down or atleast to low hp. Heroes like ES or other heroes with long casting time or channeling spells wont be able to do anything when you have them in cog and battery assault up. You might need to eat some stuns during that cog, but that's just good if you can tank up some spells for your team. Spam flares when it's up during team fights. After your cog, just try to throw flares to bring the enemy team down or kill heroes that are running away. Battery assault is also great for stopping heroes from running away. Just try to avoid using cogs in situations where you might block out your team or not letting your melee heavy hitters do damage.

 

[Finalow]

sk and ursa picked by infused.

 

[benny_a]

Are there any people from Europe that are new and would like to play?

I just finished my third MM game and I'm already sick of pubbies. Clearly they do not follow the advice that I got to first play bot matches before joining MM.

I have done 15 bot matches and 3 MM.

If I as a support (Witch Doctor, warding/chicken) have the most kills on my team then something must be up or not?

 

[bzm]

HoN logic at its finest.

I guess that you have problems with the cogs, right? Or that's what I heard from friends who are HoN players.

hon just cleaned up the hero a lot, mummies were instant, and in a circle (the fuck is that square bullshit), ulti was a faster cast, and wasnt blocked if a mosquito happened to be flying by.

same deal with like, bubbles. Hero is just way more crisp than puck despite having the same skillset

 

[Macattk15]

Are there any people from Europe that are new and would like to play?

I just finished my third MM game and I'm already sick of pubbies. Clearly they do not follow the advice that I got to first play bot matches before joining MM.

I have done 15 bot matches and 3 MM.

If I as a support (Witch Doctor, warding/chicken) have the most kills on my team then something must be up or not?

While the carry should have more than you ... Witch Doctor is someone easy to rack up early kills on.

 

[Finalow]

and yeah, infused just can't do a shit in teamfights. good picks bro.

 

[Forkball]

Any hints about tomorrows test update?

 

[ksan]

hon just cleaned up the hero a lot, mummies were instant, and in a circle (the fuck is that square bullshit), ulti was a faster cast, and wasnt blocked if a mosquito happened to be flying by.

same deal with like, bubbles. Hero is just way more crisp than puck despite having the same skillset

Yep, and that's one of the main reasons why I find HoN a lot worse than DotA. Look at CM/Lina for another great example on how to make heroes for bads.

And Pharaoh looks hilariously bad, don't know what their logic was with that conversion and how the skill set was supposed to fit his theme...

 

[Artanisix]

rubick and ezalor coming out tomorrow

old man wizard update

 

[throwawayname]

Are there any people from Europe that are new and would like to play?

I just finished my third MM game and I'm already sick of pubbies. Clearly they do not follow the advice that I got to first play bot matches before joining MM.

I have done 15 bot matches and 3 MM.

If I as a support (Witch Doctor, warding/chicken) have the most kills on my team then something must be up or not?

Add me http://steamcommunity.com/id/pnstyle

 

[ksan]

rubick and ezalor coming out tomorrow

old man wizard update

no, we need kotl+pl lane

 

[Sibylus]

Infused looking a little lost and confused out there, especially that Tinker (cancelled his TP on his last death, only to start another in the trees. Got him killed).

 

[benny_a]

While the carry should have more than you ... Witch Doctor is someone easy to rack up early kills on.

I have a feeling later it's easier with Maledict on level 4.
What should I do to get the early kills?
(I try to initiate with Cask, should I end with Cask instead?)

 

[Artanisix]

no, we need kotl+pl lane

that lane is antifun for everyone else

 

[Kapura]

Yep, and that's one of the main reasons why I find HoN a lot worse than DotA. Look at CM/Lina for another great example on how to make heroes for bads.

And Pharaoh looks hilariously bad, don't know what their logic was with that conversion and how the skill set was supposed to fit his theme...

wat

 

[oc]

kotl + sd

ffffff

 

[Freakinchair]

wat

double wat

what is he even trying to say here

 

[ksan]

Yes, because HoN players don't know what casting/attack animations are, or?

 

[Togglesworlh]

he's sayin' hon is grody yo

 

[bzm]

Yes, because HoN players don't know what casting/attack animations are, or?

you should contact your doctor i think you might be autistic

edit cuz point is whooshing over ur head right now

Spoiler

pce nerd

: cm plays exactly the same as glacius, and the only significant difference between pyro and lina is the shape of the wave. stun timing/range/size are all about the same

 

[ksan]

you should contact your doctor i think you might be autistic

Are you angry?

Maybe you should go back to your fucking cave in the hon thread, cause you truly live up the stereotype of hontrash.

secondary opinion: hyper-autism. Treatable with amputation of the spinal column.

Oh no
Are you gonna tell your mom that someone doesn't like the same game as you do? (

 

[Kapura]

you should contact your doctor i think you might be autistic

secondary opinion: hyper-autism. Treatable with amputation of the spinal column.

 

[bzm]

Are you angry?

Maybe you should go back to your fucking cave in the hon thread, cause you truly live up the stereotype of hontrash.

Whoa man, i think the better question is are you angry?
wait i dont even need an answer cuz i read your second sentence

Spoiler

cy@

edit: yo kapz this guy is wikked mad ya no?

 

[ksan]

you should contact your doctor i think you might be autistic

edit cuz point is whooshing over ur head right now

Spoiler

pce nerd

: cm plays exactly the same as glacius, and the only significant difference between pyro and lina is the shape of the wave. stun timing/range/size are all about the same

Ok, you are just fucking stupid, compare cms and glacius backswing and then come back talking shit.

 

[SaberVulcan]

I need tips on how to play Clockwerk, I don't understand what he is supposed to be doing in team-fights especially the cogs, all they do is trap me against a hero who will 9/10 kill me with autoattack.

Clockwerk is an unfortunate case of a hero who was nerfed too hard, and now scales very poorly in the late game.

Honestly all you should be trying to do is be annoying. Latch yourself onto some squishies, pop your battery and cogs. Missle every cooldown, and pray your allies win the fight and can help.

Your main role is to be an earlygame jerk. Missle harassment, battery while walking next to people, trap people in as your allies arrive. Pick him on teams with high gank and pushing power.

Ok, you are just fucking stupid, compare cms and glacius backswing and then come back talking shit.

God it's so true. Glacius is a completely buffed CM in all the ways she needs. +10 MS, higher damage, better attack animation, and even added more utility to the freeze (which I never liked but still, its there.)

 

[bzm]

Ok, you are just fucking stupid, compare cms and glacius backswing and then come back talking shit.

because i spend so much time last hitting on those heroes

edit: going to class now nerd, stay mad for awhile and we'll continue this later. Keep bein shit at the game youve been worshiping for so long tho. P.S. we dont even fucken play hon anymore so I dont even see why youre mad

 

[Kapura]

because i spend so much time last hitting on those heroes

pce

 

[ksan]

because i spend so much time last hitting on those heroes

You're doing a good job proving why some HoN players are just trash

 

[Artanisix]

Don't want to make this a HON vs Dota2 thread (ESPECIALLY AFTER HOW FRIENDLY WE ALL ARE NOW) (GUYS BE NICE) but I think he's talking about the general streamlining of heroes in HoN. Everyone has faster animations and attack points, some ports were made easier to play like Pharaoh ult going through friendly creeps, etc. And one could argue that this streamlining makes heroes that required finesse to play well in Dota, such as Lina, Puck, CM, and Clock, much easier and "dumbed down" in HoN, because you remove some of their weaknesses.

I can't really speak one way or the other since I only know Dota, but I can see why some might think the ported heroes are easier/better/casual'd at first glance in HoN. If those changes were needed to be competitive with other heroes in HoN and the overall skill ceiling is retained because of everyone's mechanical boosts, then hey, that's cool. Different engine, different game, different approach.

 

[Archie]

Dota 2 to be at Dreamhack Summer/Winter 2012.

Spoiler

Dota 2 > HoN

 

[Swag]

I think Clockwerk is still a shitty hero, this is the real issue here, why play him when you can play the infinitely superior Beastmaster?

Ksan your opinion is pretty wrong bro, stop embarrassing yourself

 

[Freakinchair]

why is this ksan guy so angry at hon

on behalf of hongaf id like to apologise for wut happened

 

[Kapura]

"[Meteorain] is there anything you don't get mad at?" "No."
Dotagaf in a nutshell, from the mumble channel

 

[Cheeto]

Listening/Reading HoN/Dota GAF banter is like watching the view with a pinch more testosterone and a ton more sexual frustration.

 

[Finalow]

mouz losing again. yoo

 

[Sanjay]

Guys get good at arguing properly.

 

[Drkirby]

Clockwerk is an unfortunate case of a hero who was nerfed too hard, and now scales very poorly in the late game.

When was he Nerfed hard? The last time I see anything major done to him was a string of small nerfs back in 2008:
v6.57: Increased the bounty on Power Cogs a little bit
v6.57: Decreased Clockwerk's Intelligence gain slightly
v6.57: Increased Hookshot manacost from 125 to 150
v6.55: Nerfed the duration on Battery Assault
v6.55: Increased Hookshot cooldown
v6.54: Lowered Clockwerk's strength gain
v6.54: Lowered early damage on Rocket Flare
v6.54: Minor reduction to Clockwerk's base armor


Since then, the only other nerfs he has gotten was his armor reduced by 1 in both 6.64 and 6.72 (But increased in 6.68. Also, it mainly effects his early game, not his late game scaling), and in 6.63 Battery Assault damage reduced being reduced from 20/40/60/80 to 10/30/50/70 (Which is more of an early game nerf, and not a late game one). They did make it so Rocket Flare's Vision doesn't scale, which I guess could be applicable to "Reduce Late Game Scaling".

6.63: Rocket Flare vision reduced from 5/10/15/20 to 10 seconds

Now, for buffs, he has gotten the following though:
v6.60: Added Clockwerk Goblin to Aghanim's Scepter
v6.66: Rocket Flare cooldown decreased from 30/25/20/15 to 20/18/16/14
v6.67: Hookshot Scepter CD from 20 to 15
v6.68: Armor increased by 1
v6.68: Battery Assault damage increased from 10/30/50/70 to 15/35/55/75
v6.68: Hookshot cooldown rescaled from 80/60/40 to 70/55/40
v6.69: Movement speed increased from 310 to 315
v6.74: Power Cogs HP/Mana drain increased from 55/70/85/100 to 60/90/120/150



Did the lower duration of Battery Assault, slightly reduced stat gains, and the nerf to his flares vision completely ruin his late game?

 

[Artanisix]

Clockwerk isn't a victim of nerfs but more a victim of playstyle changes and metagame shifts. He used to be top-dog shit where he'd solo mid and completely control the map with his global presence through flares and huge hook range.

 

[ksan]

Clockwerk isn't a victim of nerfs but more a victim of playstyle changes and metagame shifts

and he was a completely fine pick just a couple of months ago, which just proves your point pretty well

 

[1.09]

Clockwerk isn't a victim of nerfs but more a victim of playstyle changes and metagame shifts. He used to be top-dog shit where he'd solo mid and completely control the map with his global presence through flares and huge hook range.

He was also very popular as a suicide laner, before the introduction of a mid-game oriented push meta, because he could handle the somewhat-less-aggressive lanes that were present back then, staying in the game through rocket spamming and making up for it later in the game.

 

[Haly]

1v1 mid first blood or tower.

 

[Ikuu]

Mumble so good tonight.