Dota 2 Beta Thread V: Real Talk Strikes Back [Tutorials]

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#problocks #nopunintended #roadtot14 #nerfpl #plop #comebackdota
 
monocromo said:
As a Dazzle player i have seen Shallow Grave several times being called broken and OP.
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And then promptly afterward, Axe is called broken because he can Culling Blade through it.

To the Pugna haters, that little guy is awesome and you are either misusing him or misunderstanding him. Consider him the Anti-Fun that actually likes you have fun.
 
electroshockwave said:
It immediately stands out to me that he doesn't have a heart and went MKB for some reason when your team had no evasion instead of getting a butterfly. Farm doesn't matter if you make bad item choices.
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Dreams-Visions said:
yea, pretty much this.

A PL foolish enough to not buy any HP items in 60 minutes is a PL that is not only "not farmed", but stupid too.

lol @ that carry Lina build.
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CarbonatedFalcon said:
PL also had a Vlads, so shit PL.

Anyway, FUCK THE PEOPLE WHO LAST PICK CARRIES IN RD WHEN WE ALREADY HAVE 3+.

Worst people out there.
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All jokes aside, had this game gone on like 5 min more, we might've lost. We were starting to lose team fights at the end and I had to buy back/BOT to ninja the ancient and finish the game. I thought Axe was pretty on top of it for the most part. Got an early gem/picked up blink dagger fairly quickly and leveled Berserkers call and and used it well timing was to pull me out of stealth when they lost the gem.
 
Bo said:
I think you're just working through a rough patch, the game can have absolutely brutal ones but it gets better.
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Care to tell those of us in one how to get out of it? haha.

I've basically been playing Dota solidly for about 4-5 months now and have improved a hell of a lot in that time. This is basically because I got dropped into high tier matches with a friend from work and his buddies, who have been playing HON, LOL and Dota 1 and 2 for ages and had to learn how to play high tier support the hard way.

I'm generally pretty good at video games and picked the basics of Dota pretty fast, this coupled with playing high tier matches when I was really in the lowest and getting interested in pro matches quickly helped me progress much faster than I would have normally.

I have another group of friends I play with who are normal tier and despite the guy who introduced me to Dota being a part of that group, I'm somehow better than them and generally take up solo mid. I ended up getting pretty good with Magnus and since these guys want to play CM all day I ended up getting first picked Mag every game, which I didn't mind as he's a fun and powerful hero to play.

I think it might have stagnated my play a bit though, despite generally doing well with Puck and Magnus when I play them, trying to learn new heroes has become a bit of a struggle, as I think playing Magnus so much kind of threw me off when I jumped on other heroes.

Lately I've had a slew of bad games, sometimes its my fault I do bad, sometimes I think the team is to blame and other games (in high tier) we get stomped; general Dota I guess. But this losing streak is kind of hurting my enjoyment levels lately and I was wondering if anyone had some tips on how to get out of a shitty slump.

Possibly playing with new people? Because either I play in high tier and get rolled 50% of the time or I play in normal tier with these other guys and I win mid and they feed in a trilane before I'm in a position to gank properly. Either way is frustrating...HELP DOTA IS SRS BZNZ!!1

That was a bit of a novella, but Neogaf has been sympathetic to my whining in the past, so why not now?
 
neoemonk said:
Going to dive in to this game this weekend.

Never played DOTA or LoL or HoN.

I'm scared.
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Don't play without watching some youtube guides.

If you do, you'll end up quitting and ruining the game.

To start with you'll probably get a huge amount of disconnects because everyone is still figuring out if the game is good. Just keep going.

Play around in a bit game if you feel the need to (I felt youtube guides were enough).
 
Nirvana said:
Care to tell those of us in one how to get out of it? haha.

I've basically been playing Dota solidly for about 4-5 months now and have improved a hell of a lot in that time. This is basically because I got dropped into high tier matches with a friend from work and his buddies, who have been playing HON, LOL and Dota 1 and 2 for ages and had to learn how to play high tier support the hard way.

I'm generally pretty good at video games and picked the basics of Dota pretty fast, this coupled with playing high tier matches when I was really in the lowest and getting interested in pro matches quickly helped me progress much faster than I would have normally.

I have another group of friends I play with who are normal tier and despite the guy who introduced me to Dota being a part of that group, I'm somehow better than them and generally take up solo mid. I ended up getting pretty good with Magnus and since these guys want to play CM all day I ended up getting first picked Mag every game, which I didn't mind as he's a fun and powerful hero to play.

I think it might have stagnated my play a bit though, despite generally doing well with Puck and Magnus when I play them, trying to learn new heroes has become a bit of a struggle, as I think playing Magnus so much kind of threw me off when I jumped on other heroes.

Lately I've had a slew of bad games, sometimes its my fault I do bad, sometimes I think the team is to blame and other games (in high tier) we get stomped; general Dota I guess. But this losing streak is kind of hurting my enjoyment levels lately and I was wondering if anyone had some tips on how to get out of a shitty slump.

Possibly playing with new people? Because either I play in high tier and get rolled 50% of the time or I play in normal tier with these other guys and I win mid and they feed in a trilane before I'm in a position to gank properly. Either way is frustrating...HELP DOTA IS SRS BZNZ!!1

That was a bit of a novella, but Neogaf has been sympathetic to my whining in the past, so why not now?
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Keep playing. Losing streaks are a part of Dota unless you're exceptional and in an exceptional stack all the time. Sometimes you get outdrafted (no or too many carries, no or too many supports, no stuns or disables, heroes teammates aren't that comfy with), sometimes you get outplayed in a key role (losing mid hard is fatal like 79% of the time all by itself). Sometimes you get outcarried late because your carries couldn't or forgot to farm. Sometimes you just get outplayed in general (positioning, vision, incorrect team fight prioritization, item purchase choices, misclicks at critical times). Sometimes all of the above.

It's good to worry less about the fact that you're losing and do your best to figure out why the loss happened to for your future reference.
 
shira said:
Oh shit, I has forgot to farm.
iSgLREA6Qnd5S.gif

That's a tough one to comeback from
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yo, that shit happens. Especially with carries like Riki. You get in that "ganking" mindset where your mind is on killing heroes and forget you've been walking back and forth across the map instead of farming...and you look up at 30 minutes and all you actually have is a diffusal. Or maybe you stood around waiting for a team fight at a tower you're defending/trying to take that never materializes. Next thing you know, you and your team has spent 2 minutes standing at a tower waiting for something to happen that never happens.
 
Gully State said:
How would you guys suggest leveling post 6.78 LS? Same builds as before or do you put points earlier into open wounds to get the range up?
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If you not solo, just use ow as follow up until it gets higher.
I think the initiation pattern just switches - not the building, hofully your support is aware of the reversal.
 
Gully State said:
How would you guys suggest leveling post 6.78 LS? Same builds as before or do you put points earlier into open wounds to get the range up?
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Same build, but with Phase Boots almost always over treads for closing speed (to get into wounds range) and damage output. Played him last night

http://dotabuff.com/matches/212679632

At level 7, my skill build was

3-1-2-1

But I was laning. 3-2-1-1 probably would have been better if I was jungling. But yea, it felt no more difficult than it ever was.

In a glass-half-full way, it feels like a Wounds buff early because if you're close enough to get wounds off you're damn near about to melee them so you're getting more actual attacks off. Whereas in the past, you'd cast it from a further distance and you'd get less autoattacks off by the time you get to them. Well not really, but kinda sorta.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
Same build, but with Phase Boots almost always over treads for closing speed (to get into wounds range) and damage output. Played him last night

http://dotabuff.com/matches/212679632

At level 7, my skill build was

3-1-2-1

But I was laning. 3-2-1-1 probably would have been better if I was jungling. But yea, it felt no more difficult than it ever was.

In a glass-half-full way, it feels like a Wounds buff early because if you're close enough to get wounds off you're damn near about to melee them so you're getting more actual attacks off. Whereas in the past, you'd cast it from a further distance and you'd get less autoattacks off by the time you get to them. Well not really, but kinda sorta.
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Yeah I can see how it forces one to use open wounds essentially in a better position to capitalize on its slow..

Did the FNC LS build fall out of favor? I notice that no one seems to use it anymore.
 
Nirvana said:
Care to tell those of us in one how to get out of it? haha.

I've basically been playing Dota solidly for about 4-5 months now and have improved a hell of a lot in that time. This is basically because I got dropped into high tier matches with a friend from work and his buddies, who have been playing HON, LOL and Dota 1 and 2 for ages and had to learn how to play high tier support the hard way.

I'm generally pretty good at video games and picked the basics of Dota pretty fast, this coupled with playing high tier matches when I was really in the lowest and getting interested in pro matches quickly helped me progress much faster than I would have normally.

I have another group of friends I play with who are normal tier and despite the guy who introduced me to Dota being a part of that group, I'm somehow better than them and generally take up solo mid. I ended up getting pretty good with Magnus and since these guys want to play CM all day I ended up getting first picked Mag every game, which I didn't mind as he's a fun and powerful hero to play.

I think it might have stagnated my play a bit though, despite generally doing well with Puck and Magnus when I play them, trying to learn new heroes has become a bit of a struggle, as I think playing Magnus so much kind of threw me off when I jumped on other heroes.

Lately I've had a slew of bad games, sometimes its my fault I do bad, sometimes I think the team is to blame and other games (in high tier) we get stomped; general Dota I guess. But this losing streak is kind of hurting my enjoyment levels lately and I was wondering if anyone had some tips on how to get out of a shitty slump.

Possibly playing with new people? Because either I play in high tier and get rolled 50% of the time or I play in normal tier with these other guys and I win mid and they feed in a trilane before I'm in a position to gank properly. Either way is frustrating...HELP DOTA IS SRS BZNZ!!1

That was a bit of a novella, but Neogaf has been sympathetic to my whining in the past, so why not now?
Click to expand...
First rule of thumb: Dota's rough patches in terms of games can last longer than most people play most games in hours. Find a couple of things you can do better from game to game and continually apply them, and don't let the fact that you're losing a lot affect your judgement of how you're improving. The former matters a hell of a lot more than the latter. Win small, win big!
 
What is this? I don't even...

Some assclown is suing Valve over their mute system...

Dear, Valve

I am now, proactively, in the process of working with an arbitrator and solicitor to build a case around dota2's mute system penalizing innocent individuals and giving them the choice to either not use the product (and thus hats for which you payed) or further endure severe emotional distress. The idea of this would be that being muted gets you further abused by players for not being able to communicate. In addition being unable to communicate beyond simple macros incapacitates an individuals ability to coordinate with team and win.

My solicitor suggests that it can be argued that valve is guilty of facilitating further harassment from infringing individuals via their penal system. In this case it looks even worse when valve allows infringing individuals to use reports to harass innocent individuals.
In addition to these arguments my solicitor has suggested that an argument can be made for payed content being inaccessible due to valve forcing individuals to endure emotional damages, including over further reports for not communicating, to access the content and thus are accepting pay for content that they do not effectively provide.

Should Valve refuse to render appropriate resolution to my mute ban then, due to heavy investment in the game, i am fully ready to work with my solicitor to bring valve to civil suit. We will argue severe emotional distress caused by the secondary effects of an out of control and guilt-blind punishment system and already are collecting evidence toward that end. In addition any and all further harassment because of the mute ban will be recorded and liability will be argued to rest with valve due to them providing the causative factor for it.

Please save everyone time and work to resolve this situation while its still on a customer/provider basis.

Sincerely,
Meiun
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Anuxinamoon said:
Wanna learn how to defensive tri a bit better? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ30wD4Mnm4&feature=youtu.be

I was so confused during this whole session. hahah
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I meant to chime in on this yesterday.

Honestly...required watching for everyone not named 109, pro, bzm, ksan, milk, haly.

It's a wealth of information. If I had known shit like this 6 months ago, I'd be 6 months ahead of where I am now. Like, the insight you'll have by 10 minutes will be immediately applicable to your matches *today*.

This is why the community really needs a Day[9] Daily type of youtuber. Someone who not only explains what's going on, but why. The minutia of decision-making that makes the difference in winning/losing lanes and fights.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
I meant to chime in on this yesterday.

Honestly...required watching for everyone not named 109, pro, bzm, ksan, milk, haly.

It's a wealth of information. If I had known shit like this 6 months ago, I'd be 6 months ahead of where I am now.

This is why the community really needs a Day[9] Daily type of youtuber. Someone who not only explains what's going on, but why. The minutia of decision-making that makes the difference in winning/losing lanes and fights.
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Yeah I was actually going to ask if there was a Day9 type of thing for Dota2.
 
When people tri, I'm off in the suicide lane as Windrunner!

(will watch anyway)
 
Man, the new janggo change is gonna be hard to get used to. I buy that item so much and now it's an extra 50 gold. It's like when they made boots 450 and I kept forgetting for like a week.

also they just need to change Sange and Yasha's name to Super 16.
 
kiaaa said:
Man, the new janggo change is gonna be hard to get used to. I buy that item so much and now it's an extra 50 gold. It's like when they made boots 450 and I kept forgetting for like a week.

also they just need to change Sange and Yasha's name to Super 16.
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ibtFfscQqMUlzT.jpg

5 of em, for the price/stats/timing its just too good
 
Artanisix said:
Dunno if you've been keeping up with CDEC at all or just pulled it randomly, but damn Slark is being picked up a lot.
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He's not strong enough to be banned regularly, but he is strong enough to be picked a lot. He's where Windrunner was a while back. He was also untouched in the patch where other heroes got nerfed.
 
Anuxinamoon said:
Wanna learn how to defensive tri a bit better? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ30wD4Mnm4&feature=youtu.be

I was so confused during this whole session. hahah
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I'll have to check this out later tonight. While there's a wealth of information out there regarding Dota basics, there really isn't much about more advanced team compositions or lane setups. The role of supports also appears substantially different in high-level games.
 
Kenaras said:
I'll have to check this out later tonight. While there's a wealth of information out there regarding Dota basics, there really isn't much about more advanced team compositions or lane setups. The role of supports also appears substantially different in high-level games.
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that video will give you a lot of that. it's really good.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
I meant to chime in on this yesterday.

Honestly...required watching for everyone not named 109, pro, bzm, ksan, milk, haly.

It's a wealth of information. If I had known shit like this 6 months ago, I'd be 6 months ahead of where I am now. Like, the insight you'll have by 10 minutes will be immediately applicable to your matches *today*.

This is why the community really needs a Day[9] Daily type of youtuber. Someone who not only explains what's going on, but why. The minutia of decision-making that makes the difference in winning/losing lanes and fights.
Click to expand...

ksan and milk should watch it imo (I refuse to watch it because I'm the best)
 
n0b said:
Stacking hearts on Meepo is boring and only useful for making him have a lot of health; the flat HP boost only helps one Meepo, so that means the regen is the only useful part, and that you only need one heart for. Stacking Skadis gives meepo clones the most overall stats, stacking ethereal blades gives Meepo clones the most possible damage.

Though the way you're talking about building him, I would go for: blink, aghs, bot, ethereal, ac, and a heart or a skadi; blink meepo benefits so much from being able to amplify poofs with ethereal blade, and it also gives the most attack damage of any item for the character. AC makes him melt towers and rosh. (Though honestly when you get to 6 slotting meepo the blink has to go if he expects to stand late game once people start catching up in levels)
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Des0lar said:
I don't feel Meepo profits from AC at all, the AS boost only works (mostly) on the main one, and most of your damage comes from Blink/Lothar poofing, so the reduced armor is not that useful anyway. 5 Meepos deal more than enough damage to single towers/heroes anyway so again, the -armor aura is not worth it imo.

For the price of cuirass, I could have bought 1 reaver and be pretty close to the second one. What meepo needs is sustainability in teamfights, as long as he lives, he can dish out immense damage, but AC/Vlads etc just block a slot that could have been a lot of HP. Let someone else get these items, your biggest threat is still being burst down. Lots of HP prevent that.

Tranq -> Aghs/(Blink/Shadowblade) -> Blink/Shadowblade/(Aghs) -> PT/BoT -> reaver reaver reaver -> heart heart heart

Skadi and E-blade are nice on paper but damage and int are not what meepo needs. Lategame you will never be oom anyway since you only have 2 spells, stacking agi items on him is pretty useless as well, yes you get more dps, but you have 5 meepos hitting for over 120 damage anyway, so the little bit more dps ain't gonna change a lot. The skadi movement slow is completely wasted since you have geostrike anyway.
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Tenck said:
Initiate on the enemy team in late game and not kill a single person with your burst damage. What then? AC is a great item on Meepo. Not only does it help you with right clicking, but also your teammates. That said though, heart should take priority over AC. There's absolutely no reason not to get it.
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Thanks guys.

One other thing I was wondering, is there a point in the game where I should stop farming/pushing the lanes so hard? One thing I've noticed about meepo is that 40 or so minutes into the game I tend to have all the items I need, as well as enough gold for a couple buy backs. Should I be letting the other people on my team get the farm from pushing the lanes? At some point it feels like I'm leeching all the xp and gold at the expense of my teammates falling behind. I've almost lost a few games where I was completely stacked, but the game went on too long and the other team started catching up to me in levels, while my teammates were still around level 19-21.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
I meant to chime in on this yesterday.

Honestly...required watching for everyone not named 109, pro, bzm, ksan, milk, haly.

It's a wealth of information. If I had known shit like this 6 months ago, I'd be 6 months ahead of where I am now. Like, the insight you'll have by 10 minutes will be immediately applicable to your matches *today*.

This is why the community really needs a Day[9] Daily type of youtuber. Someone who not only explains what's going on, but why. The minutia of decision-making that makes the difference in winning/losing lanes and fights.
Click to expand...

Good video with a lot of solid laning information, albeit basic. It lacks discussion on the roam/smoke aspect of the trilane which is just as important as the lane itself. But the focus on the supports staying together and taking advantage of opportunities is great, that's the thing you need before you can do anything else.
I don't ever scrim my opinions are invalid
 
Dreams-Visions said:
It's a wealth of information. If I had known shit like this 6 months ago, I'd be 6 months ahead of where I am now. Like, the insight you'll have by 10 minutes will be immediately applicable to your matches *today*.
Click to expand...

***disclaimer***
Trying/suggesting to trilane in trench will get you reported hard and fast.
2-1-2 forlyfe
 
sixghost said:
Thanks guys.

One other thing I was wondering, is there a point in the game where I should stop farm/pushing the lanes so hard? One thing I've noticed about meepo is that 40 or so minutes into the game I tend to have all the items I need, as well as enough gold for a couple buy backs. Should I be letting the other people on my team get the farm from pushing the lanes? At some point it feels like I'm leeching all the xp and gold at the expense of my teammates falling behind. I've almost lost a few games where I was completely stacked, but the game went on too long and the other team started catching up to me in levels, while my teammates were still around level 19-21.
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If you're completely gimping your teammates (like an Agh's Furion), you should be aiming to end the game quickly. With how you're describing it, it sounds like you're giving the enemy team a whole lot of room to farm and they are going to catch up.

shira said:
***disclaimer***
Trying/suggesting to trilane in trench will get you reported hard and fast.
2-1-2 forlyfe
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It's not even worth it in lower tiers, to be honest. You'll just end up with 2 extremely poor and underleveled heroes.
 
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