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[Haly]

1) PL relies on momentum. He doesn't make all illusions instantly, it takes time for them to build up. Don't let him initiate on you while he has 10 illusions up, initiate on him.

2) A PL who's not using his illusions to focus a single target is a bad PL, and if you're losing to such a bad PL you deserve it.

3) PL is pretty squishy, even with his "core items". Unless you include Heart as part of his core, which brings up the question, how did you let him get it in the first place?

4) Even with Heart he can be locked down pretty easily, he has no blink, no invulnerability, no escape except dopplewalk and there are three items designed specifically to counter it. Morphling, AM, Naix, Juggernaut, Void, Weaver, Naga, Slark are all significantly harder to take down than PL without any items whatsoever. Because with them, you need to open with a silence or stun before they even see you, which is exceedingly difficult. Given equal farm they're actually much harder to lock down.

5) Against a trench level PL, all you need to do is throw out dust. The faded PL that's trying to invis away while revealed like a fucking retard is the one you need to hit.

This is not a matter of "opinion", you don't understand the hero at all and you should stop talking like you do.

 

[close to the edge]

1) PL relies on momentum. He doesn't make all illusions instantly, it takes time for them to build up. Don't let him initiate on you while he has 10 illusions up, initiate on him.

2) A PL who's not using his illusions to focus a single target is a bad PL, and if you're losing to such a bad PL you deserve it.

3) PL is pretty squishy, even with his "core items". Unless you include Heart as part of his core, which brings up the question, how did you let him get it in the first place?

4) Even with Heart he can be locked down pretty easily, he has no blink, no invulnerability, no escape except dopplewalk and there are three items designed specifically to counter it. Morphling, AM, Naix, Juggernaut, Void, Weaver, Naga, Slark are all significantly harder to take down than PL without any items whatsoever. Because with them, you need to open with a silence or stun before they even see you, which is exceedingly difficult. Given equal farm they're actually much harder to lock down.

5) Against a trench level PL, all you need to do is throw out dust. The faded PL that's trying to dopplewalk away like a fucking retard is the one you need to hit.

This is not a matter of "opinion", you don't understand the hero at all and you should stop talking like you do.

That's the kind of real talk I can get behind.

 

[Anbokr]

Haha, you're so funny. Can't we just talk about a current popular Carry's strengths and weaknesses without being trolled?

There's no need to get sarcastic, we all know you know how to counter PL.

We've had a serious discussion on PL's strengths and weaknesses for 2 days now, 5 pages. Shepard doesn't want to hear any of it because it's just all opinion and some people don't like PL and stuff.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse 500,000 times, so sometimes the only route to diffuse ignorance is sarcasm .

 

[Sibylus]

I'd rate a core Tiny higher than a core Phantom Lancer. He has cleave, he eats buildings, has nearly twice the range of your standard melee carry, has two stuns, has large burst damage, and screws over melee carries who aren't magic immune. You need exorbitant amounts of farm to overcome that shit.

 

[Anbokr]

I'd rate a core Tiny higher than a core Phantom Lancer. He has cleave, he eats buildings, has nearly twice the range of your standard melee carry, has two stuns, has large burst damage, and screws over melee carries who aren't magic immune. You need exorbitant amounts of farm to overcome that shit.

A maxed Void and Tiny beat PL 1v1. We tested a maxed Lone Druid vs PL and they broke even (PL won one and LD won the other). Didn't test any other carries, but I'm sure many compete with him. Like Haly said, PL has to build up illusions. If he gets lucky, he'll wreck any carry (without massive cleave) in a 1v1, if he doesn't, he's a free kill. Granted the game isn't 1v1 and maxed carries like Gyro, Medusa, and Spectre will wreck teams in a manner of seconds in a 5v5.

 

[JustinBB7]

I'd rate a core Tiny higher than a core Phantom Lancer. He has cleave, he eats buildings, has nearly twice the range of your standard melee carry, has two stuns, has large burst damage, and screws over melee carries who aren't magic immune. You need exorbitant amounts of farm to overcome that shit.

Farmed tiny is so scary, I wonder why teams don't do it more often actually. If he takes the hard carry role he's a monster.

 

[Stahsky]

A maxed Void and Tiny beat PL 1v1. We tested a maxed Lone Druid vs PL and they broke even (PL won one and LD won the other). Didn't test any other carries, but I'm sure many compete with him. Like Haly said, PL has to build up illusions. If he gets lucky, he'll wreck any carry (without massive cleave) in a 1v1, if he doesn't, he's a free kill. Granted the game isn't 1v1 and maxed carries like Gyro, Medusa, and Spectre will wreck teams in a manner of seconds in a 5v5.

none of this matters cuz pl has dopple havent you been reading this thread gosh




Edit: On a side note, I had a friend many months ago do a 1v1 carry test, and he said CK beat everyone unless PL got lucky with illusions. I haven't tested this out myself though.

 

[Sibylus]

A maxed Void and Tiny beat PL 1v1. We tested a maxed Lone Druid vs PL and they broke even (PL won one and LD won the other). Didn't test any other carries, but I'm sure many compete with him. Like Haly said, PL has to build up illusions. If he gets lucky, he'll wreck any carry (without massive cleave) in a 1v1, if he doesn't, he's a free kill. Granted the game isn't 1v1 and maxed carries like Gyro and Medusa will wreck teams in a manner of seconds in a 5v5.

Yeah, Void was definitely the other big one in my mind. Chronosphere gets some damned work done, especially with chronocrits.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Whilst the first stages of the qualifiers were pretty predictable the last few days have been pretty fun to watch. I was also pretty impressed by The GD Studio's production, will be interesting to see how BTS do in comparison.

 

[Shepard]

1) PL relies on momentum. He doesn't make all illusions instantly, it takes time for them to build up. Don't let him initiate on you while he has 10 illusions up, initiate on him.

2) A PL who's not using his illusions to focus a single target is a bad PL, and if you're losing to such a bad PL you deserve it.

3) PL is pretty squishy, even with his "core items". Unless you include Heart as part of his core, which brings up the question, how did you let him get it in the first place?

4) Even with Heart he can be locked down pretty easily, he has no blink, no invulnerability, no escape except dopplewalk and there are three items designed specifically to counter it. Morphling, AM, Naix, Juggernaut, Void, Weaver, Naga, Slark are all significantly harder to take down than PL without any items whatsoever. Because with them, you need to open with a silence or stun before they even see you, which is exceedingly difficult. Given equal farm they're actually much harder to lock down.

5) Against a trench level PL, all you need to do is throw out dust. The faded PL that's trying to invis away while revealed like a fucking retard is the one you need to hit.

This is not a matter of "opinion", you don't understand the hero at all and you should stop talking like you do.

1- Once he is level 3 on his ulti, forget time to build illusions, they'll spawn in 1 sec
2- ok
3- This is the argument you've been all using and one I cant quite accept: another hero with equal farm cant take 8 pls with a diffusal burning his health and mana. That's why he's broken. No hero should have that kind of advantage even with some room to farm.
4- His main escape ability is great in the early game (not just the invis, but also the speed boost), against all these heroes at least you know when they are there. Just watch yesterday's game: a lv 15, full health magnus was killed by just a spirit lance, with no other attack following it. And we're talking about a professional game here.
5- How to know the real PL is there? Throwing dust whenever you see a group of them together?

Also, Void needs his chronosphere, has little pushing potential, and can only attack a single target at a time (Unless BF). Also you know when a void isnt there anymore, way easier to lockdown.

 

[RS4-]

Feels good, I haven't picked PL at all. In dota 1 and 2.

Fuck PL.

 

[Anbokr]

3- This is the argument you've been all using and one I cant quite accept: another hero with equal farm cant take 8 pls with a diffusal burning his health and mana. That's why he's broken. No hero should have that kind of advantage even with some room to farm.

3- This is the argument you've been all using and one I can't quite accept: aanother hero with equal farm cant take Void wrecking his shit in Chronosphere. That's why he's broken. No hero should have that kind of advantage even with some room to farm.

 

[Shepard]

3- This is the argument you've been all using and one I can't quite accept: aanother hero with equal farm cant take Void wrecking his shit in Chronosphere. That's why he's broken. No hero should have that kind of advantage even with some room to farm.

Read above. Void needs the chronosphere (and needs to land a good one, so you dont screw your team). Once he used it, it's easy to lock him down.

 

[Xater]

Aaaah all those sweet items for beting on Mouz. I was surprised so many people had so much faith in DD.

 

[Stahsky]

Read above. Void needs the chronosphere (and needs to land a good one, so you dont screw your team). Once he used it, it's easy to lock him down.

dude, you need to go grab a snickers or something

 

[Shepard]

dude, you need to go grab a snickers or something

No idea what snickers are

 

[Hylian7]

Damn, I really dont know what's so hard to understand about what I said: I was telling him that I wasnt going to show all the arguments that makes me think PL is unbalanced again, as he can read them on these last 3 pages. You say "5 pages of people telling me how wrong I am", but if you read those 5 pages again, there is also people giving nice opinions for tweaks to make him a better hero (more balanced one). The fact that you think he is balanced and I think he is not is not going to change, and I really dont see the point of discussing this again when it all boils down to personal opinions, not facts. Also, I get the feeling when I say he is unbalanced, you guys understand that I'm saying he has a guaranteed win, I never said that. I said that once he reaches his core items, he is probabl the hardest hero to kill in the game (specially because he is very hard to lockdown during a fight and you'll probably waste time and health/mana fighting the various "PL groups" scattered through the map.).

Have you ever tried to kill any other carry that had their core items? Faceless Void, Luna, the Morphling of old (big one), and more all become "hard to kill" when they get their stuff.

 

[StrongArmSteady]

Aaaah all those sweet items for beting on Mouz. I was surprised so many people had so much faith in DD.

I meant to ask about this...is this on gosu gamers? or are you betting real in game items..

 

[StrongArmSteady]

No idea what snickers are

he meant a Marathon

 

[Shepard]

Have you ever tried to kill any other carry that had their core items? Faceless Void, Luna, the Morphling of old (big one), and more all become "hard to kill" when they get their stuff.

For whole other reasons. The hero itself is as easy to kill as any other (and easier thean some), but the problem is finding him in the middle of the fight, or even knowing if he is still there.

he meant a Marathon

Ty

 

[Xater]

I meant to ask about this...is this on gosu gamers? or are you betting real in game items..

http://dota2lounge.com/

 

[Stahsky]

For whole other reasons. The hero itself is as easy to kill as any other (and easier thean some), but the problem is finding him in the middle of the fight, or even knowing if he is still there.


Ty

Dude, use some AoE on the pack of illusions, find which one takes the least damage, and focus it. What is so difficult about this?

 

[Shepard]

Dude, use some AoE on the pack of illusions, find which one takes the least damage, and focus it. What is so difficult about this?

3 lanes being pushed at the same time while the real one is in the jungle, that's what.

 

[Haly]

1- Once he is level 3 on his ulti, forget time to build illusions, they'll spawn in 1 sec

18% chance at level 16. Which is about one in every 5 hits.

3- This is the argument you've been all using and one I cant quite accept: another hero with equal farm cant take 8 pls with a diffusal burning his health and mana. That's why he's broken. No hero should have that kind of advantage even with some room to farm.

Sven, Tiny, Luna, Gyro, Void are the ones that immediately spring to mind. Dusa works too but Dusa has her own problems. Or you can just have Magnus give Empower to your melee carry. You know, Magnus? That really good AoE initiator that doesn't give a shit about numbers or magic immunity?

4- His main escape ability is great in the early game (not just the invis, but also the speed boost), against all these heroes at least you know when they are there. Just watch yesterday's game: a lv 15, full health magnus was killed by just a spirit lance, with no other attack following it. And we're talking about a professional game here.

You know, with boots and dopplewalk, PL's run speed comes to 391. This is hardly Weaver/Lycan's unsnarable 522, CK's innate 375 with boots, Luna's 370, AM, Void and Morph's blink. And Naix doesn't even care. 391 is easily manageable, you can't run from a targeted stun no matter how fast you are.

5- How to know the real PL is there? Throwing dust whenever you see a group of them together?

Well, there are few options you have here.

a) Throw out an AOE nuke. Doesn't matter which one, if they all take the same amount of damage, then he's not there, if one takes less damage than the other, then he's there.

b) Understand what kind of player the PL is, if he's the kind to let his illusions push or if he's the kind that pushes with them. If he has the skill to micro a single illusion to throw you off his track or if he's just an a-move scrub.

c) Gem. Sentries. Wards. He isn't invis all the time like Riki, BH and Clinkz, if those heroes can be countered with smart play then so can PL.

3 lanes being pushed at the same time while the real one is in the jungle, that's what.

Here's an idea:

Don't let him farm Boots of Travel.

Also, Void needs his chronosphere, has little pushing potential, and can only attack a single target at a time (Unless BF).

Void pretty much always gets BF or Mjolnir, it's a given. If you can assume that PL is going to have his core up then I can assume Void has his AoE.

 

[Anbokr]

1- Once he is level 3 on his ulti, forget time to build illusions, they'll spawn in 1 sec
2- ok
3- This is the argument you've been all using and one I cant quite accept: another hero with equal farm cant take 8 pls with a diffusal burning his health and mana. That's why he's broken. No hero should have that kind of advantage even with some room to farm.
4- His main escape ability is great in the early game (not just the invis, but also the speed boost), against all these heroes at least you know when they are there. Just watch yesterday's game: a lv 15, full health magnus was killed by just a spirit lance, with no other attack following it. And we're talking about a professional game here.
5- How to know the real PL is there? Throwing dust whenever you see a group of them together?

Also, Void needs his chronosphere, has little pushing potential, and can only attack a single target at a time (Unless BF). Also you know when a void isnt there anymore, way easier to lockdown.

1- PL can't spawn illusions in one second when e's stunned.
2- ok.
3- Answere dabove.
4- His main escape ability is as in the early game. It costs 140 or 150 mana and PL is very mana intensive early on (hence his natural pairing with KOTL). All it takes is dust + a stun or slow to bring him down. Compare this with AM blink, naga net + ulti, slark leap + invis, Void time leap, and the natural tankiness + stuns of many of the strength carries.
5- Early on PL will only have around 2 points in juxtapose, and even if he has more, he's not going to be spawning illusions very quickly, it's pretty obvious before hand if the real PL is there hitting creeps for 1/3 to 1/2 of their hp. Jump in, dust, and the PL that's faded and running for his life is the easy kill.

Void is a different hero than PL. Are we comparing their strengths or weaknesses more generally? You specifically stated that PL bothered you because he can kill an equally farmed carry if he has 8 illusions up, and no other carry can do that. I demonstrated that that wasn't the case.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Can we stop argueing about PL in this thread guys? On Shepard's planet PL can obviously have sustained push on all 3 lanes whilst farming in the jungle at 40 minutes. Let's all just be happy that we only need to contend with Earth PL.

 

[Shepard]

18% chance at level 16. Which is about one in every 5 hits.

Sven, Tiny, Luna, Gyro, Void are the ones that immediately spring to mind. Dusa works too but Dusa has her own problems. Or you can just have Magnus give Empower to your melee carry. You know, Magnus? That really good AoE initiator that doesn't give a shit about numbers or magic immunity?

He wasnt even that outleveled (15x20 i think)

You know, with boots and dopplewalk, PL's run speed comes to 391. This is hardly Weaver/Lycan's unsnarable 522, CK's innate 375 with boots, Luna's 370, AM, Void and Morph's blink. And Naix doesn't even care. 391 is easily manageable, you can't run from a targeted stun no matter how fast you are.

Well, there are few options you have here.

a) Throw out an AOE nuke. Doesn't matter which one, if they all take the same amount of damage, then he's not there, if one takes less damage than the other, then he's there.

b) Understand what kind of player the PL is, if he's the kind to let his illusions push or if he's the kind that pushes with them. If he has the skill to micro a single illusion to throw you off his track or if he's just an a-move scrub.

c) Gem. Sentries. Wards. He isn't invis all the time like Riki, BH and Clinkz, if those heroes can be countered with smart play then so can PL.

Here's an idea:

Don't let him farm Boots of Travel.

Void pretty much always gets BF or Mjolnir, it's a given. If you can assume that PL is going to have his core up then I can assume Void has his AoE.

See, it's stuff like this that robs you of all credibility. Have you never heard of the jungle?

A good void doesn't let you know where he is and comes in to fuck your shit up at the worst possible moment.

Read this. Do you understand you just gave a counter to almost each role in the game? PL is a great pusher, you have to deal with the invis, you have to have a great AoE to shut him, You have to care about him not gaining so much farm or he'll get too much damage, you have to basically have the perfect team composition. Again, that's the problem. Talking like this, it's really very easy.

Can we stop argueing about PL in this thread guys? On Shepard's planet PL can obviously have sustained push on all 3 lanes whilst farming in the jungle at 40 minutes. Let's all just be happy that we only need to contend with Earth PL.

I said I didn't want to go through all this again, but I had to.

 

[Haly]

Read this. Do you understand you just gave a counter to almost each role in the game? PL is a great pusher, you have to deal with the invis, you have to have a great AoE to shut him, You have to care about him not gaining so much farm or he'll get too much damage, you have to basically have the perfect team composition. Again, that's the problem. Talking like this, it's really very easy.

Welcome to the world of hard carries. Enjoy your stay.

 

[jaundicejuice]

Just did a solo queue where we had a Phantom Lancer on the other team. I was one of the first picks, chose Wind Runner (gank-support, semi-support), then someone on the Dire side chose PL and no one else on my team picked a decent counter. Silencer (random'd), Earthshaker, Clockwerk and Queen of Pain were what the Radiant ended up with. No one chose cleave, no one built cleave, we didn't have enough nukes (I probably should've re-picked and gone with Warlock), and I was the only one buying truesight items. ES's stuns and AoE's and Silencers ults were good, my shackleshot was alright in conjunction with the sentries for Slark, BH and PL. They all helped us win some teamfights early but in the end we let PL farm and ever so slowly snowball. He wasn't even that good, he just had the items and had hit 16. We didn't gank him often enough and we didn't push mid when we had an advantage with live heroes and creep waves.

All some of my teammates, especially the Silencer, did was bitch about OP heroes rather than trying to do something about them. First time I heard Slark (my favorite hero) being described as OP along with PL (until I bought sentry wards to drop down in every teamfight). I forget who else was supposed to be OP but they were bitching about a third Dire-side pick as well.

We could've won the game if we just pushed mid for the fast GG. We won a number of teamfights, we might have stood a chance with a mid push but everyone else wanted to farm and push all the tier 1 and 2 towers down in top and bot lane. I kept telling them the longer the game went on the worse it was going to be since we didn't have a good counter to PL, that we shouldn't get greedy and push all the lanes down, that we needed to end the game fast if we wanted to win. We were up to barracks in mid lane, but they kept backing off, losing the teamfight advantage, letting the Dire team spawn and letting PL farm. And somehow they were surprised when we started losing badly as the game went on longer. "PL is OP, such a boring pick." We gave the other team, specifically PL, time and space.

At the end when they were bitching about OP heroes when we lost with our picks and how long we let the game go on for. "Drow OP" or "PL OP" are things I constantly hear in pub games but then you look at the team composition, items builds or things they didn't buy (like observer or sentry wards and dust), you can see why. It's like bitching about an Anti-Mage when you let him free farm a Battlefury and a Heart.

 

[Shepard]

Welcome to the world of hard carries. Enjoy your stay.

The others arent nearly as good in all roles.

Also again, stop thinking OP=heavy nerf. Sometimes a simple skill adjustment can fix things.

 

[Sibylus]

He wasnt even that outleveled (15x20 i think)

Uh, this is a prime example of what not to do against PL. He doesn't kite, he doesn't nuke, he just sits there like a dummy whilst the illusions get in free hit after free hit.

 

[Nokterian]

Watching LGD vs Tofu on youtube from beyondthesummit..my god these guys play so different and there pretty fierce. LD is a pretty good broadcaster.

 

[Haly]

The others arent nearly as good in all roles.

I beg to differ, otherwise Gyro and Naix wouldn't be the breakout carries of TI3.

 

[Anuxinamoon]

Man I love seeing enchantress do soo much damage in competitive play :3

 

[Tenck]

He wasnt even that outleveled (15x20 i think)

That's what happens when you stay in one place so illusions can attack you over and over again.

Where were you when AM's Manta Illusions almost killed people by themselves?

 

[Shepard]

Uh, this is a prime example of what not to do against PL. He doesn't kite, he doesn't nuke, he just sits there like a dummy whilst the illusions get in free hit after free hit.

He sat there for 4? seconds, and PL isnt even there.

That's what happens when you stay in one place so illusions can attack you over and over again.

Where were you when AM's Manta Illusions almost killed people by themselves?

PL with diffusal/manta killed a magnus with just his first nuke. And they were 5? levels apart.

I beg to differ, otherwise Gyro and Naix wouldn't be the breakout carries of TI3.

Gyro has no escape, cant split push by himself, has a great farming tool though.
Naix also has to use his ulti to "escape" (not so reliable), has poor farming potential, poor pushing potential

I really dont think its the same case. They're are picked more because its better to have multiple semi-carries than a hard one now.

 

[Stahsky]

The others arent nearly as good in all roles.

Also again, stop thinking OP=heavy nerf. Sometimes a simple skill adjustment can fix things.

I think that's what we're all trying to tell you to do.

I just literally did a 1v1 with someone as Tiny vs PL. six slots. Unless he did something silly, I won 90% of the time as Tiny.

He is far from unstoppable.

 

[Haly]

Gyro has no escape, cant split push by himself, has a great farming tool though.

Yeah, and I wonder why he's picked more than PL now despite not being nearly as good in "all roles".

Naix also has to use his ulti to "escape" (not so reliable), has poor farming potential, poor pushing potential

Naix has a built in 8 second BKB. That's his "escape". You can't lock him down without a Magic Immunity piercing spell, and those are far and few in between (and it's why Tront doto exists).

I really dont think its the same case. They're are picked more because its better to have multiple semi-carries than a hard one now.

I'm really glad you brought up this point because it'll help you understand what I'm about to tell you next.

Are you ready?

You sure?

Here it is: Heroes are balanced for the metagame, not in a vacuum.

 

[Shepard]

I think that's what we're all trying to tell you to do.

I just literally did a 1v1 with someone as Tiny vs PL. six slots. Unless he did something silly, I won 90% of the time as Tiny.

He is far from unstoppable.

Can't argue against that, I'm talking about personal experience from watching games and playing them (most of those in which I was the PL)

 

[Sibylus]

He sat there for 4? seconds, and PL isnt even there.


PL with diffusal/manta killed a magnus with just his first nuke. And they were 5? levels apart.

No, he did not kill magnus with just his first nuke. Magnus took 187.5 damage from the nuke, that's a sliver of his health. Nearly all of his health was chipped away by illusions he could have and should have avoided. The Magnus essentially committed suicide.

 

[Shepard]

No, he did not kill magnus with just his first nuke. Magnus took 187.5 damage from the nuke, that's a sliver of his health. Nearly all of his health was chipped away by illusions he could have and should have avoided. The Magnus essentially committed suicide.

Exactly. All he did was throw his first nuke. He was probably destroying someone else in the meantime.

Again, I rest my case. My opinion is that this hero needS and will have some tweaks to his skillset/status gains. If you guys think he's fine the way he is, time will prove me wrong.

 

[ksan]

Exactly. All he did was throw his first nuke. He was probably destroying someone else in the meantime.

Again, I rest my case. My opinion is that this hero needS and will have some tweaks to his skillset/status gains. If you guys think he's fine the way he is, time will prove me wrong.

Do you even play against players that can achieve the gpm/farm that SS did that game?
It's rare even in pro games where the PL gets free farm.

 

[vertopci]

Exactly. All he did was throw his first nuke. He was probably destroying someone else in the meantime.

Naga siren with diffusal could do the same thing to that stupid magnus. Or any hero with manta + diffusal.

 

[Sibylus]

Exactly. All he did was throw his first nuke. He was probably destroying someone else in the meantime.

You're not getting it, dude. The Magnus killed himself. The gif has zero relevance, because the hero who took the nuke took zero measures to make sure the first illusion wouldn't spawn others or kill him. Do you seriously think that's how that situation looks most of the time? Most of the time, the hero kites the illusion instead of letting it summon illusions for free.

 

[ixix]

Uh, this is a prime example of what not to do against PL. He doesn't kite, he doesn't nuke, he just sits there like a dummy whilst the illusions get in free hit after free hit.

Conversely, Clockwerk in that gif demonstrates what you should do against a throng of lancers: make yourself scarce and simply be glad that they're attacking somebody else.

For added effect, tell your team "Uh uh, I am donesies with this shit."

 

[Shepard]

Do you even play against players that can achieve the gpm/farm that SS did that game?
It's rare even in pro games where the PL gets free farm.

Who's SS, and the answer is probably not.

Naga siren with diffusal could do the same thing to that stupid magnus. Or any hero with manta + diffusal.

She coudnt, really. She'd have to net him while attacking together with her illusions for this to work.

You're not getting it, dude. The Magnus killed himself. The gif has zero relevance, because the hero who took the nuke took zero measures to make sure the first illusion wouldn't spawn others or kill him. Do you seriously think that's how that situation looks most of the time? Most of the time, the hero kites the illusion instead of letting it summon illusions for free.

Yeah: saw a PL throwing his nuke? Run, hide yo kids, hide yo wife.



I'll have to leave briefly, be right back.

 

[Artanisix]

The others arent nearly as good in all roles.

Also again, stop thinking OP=heavy nerf. Sometimes a simple skill adjustment can fix things.

PL:

-Pathetic pusher without Diffusal/Manta/Heart
-No early ganking or roaming power
-Unable to support or solo
-Easy to bully out of lane in an even numbered matchup
-Weak escape mechanism
-Cannot farm 3 lanes and jungle at the same time

Tinker:
-Powerful global pusher with only Boots of Travel and Blink Dagger
-Humongous gank potential with Laser/Missle
-Can solo and doesn't need a support to protect him
-Near-impossible to push into without an appropriate team due to March of the Machines
-Has 10+ seconds of disable with just a Sheep Stick
-Can refresh his blink dagger for maximum mobility
-Can farm all the lanes, the jungle, and the ancients with ease
-Able to put out 800+ magic damage a second with Dagon 5
-Impossible to use dust on once he purchases Manta+Shadowblade due to rearm
-Has a nicer beard

Tinker is a carry that can perform more roles than PL. #opimbala

I'd like to propose a game of TEAM PL IS OP vs TEAM PL IS NOT OP. The former team can have 4 heroes of their choice + PL, and the latter team will draft around whatever picks the former wants. I'll captain the latter team.

 

[Sibylus]

Who's SS, and the answer is probably not.

She coudnt, really. She'd have to net him while attacking together with her illusions for this to work.


Yeah: saw a PL throwing his nuke? Run, hide yo kids, hide yo wife.



I'll have to leave briefly, be right back.

Why would you need to net a hero that is standing still.

PL's nuke is about as imbalanced as Macropyre or Mystic Flare. The bottom line is don't stand in it! It's easy, it's fair, and it punishes morons.

 

[ksan]

Who's SS, and the answer is probably not.

The PL player in the picture. The gif proves nothing as the PL player had over 700 gpm, I'd say that it's at the point of a FV/PA/Morph with that type of farm being even worse.

Tinker is a carry that can perform more roles than PL. #opimbala

You forgot the part where march of machines gives more cancer to me than PL's all advantages combined ((((

 

[Hylian7]

PL:

-Pathetic pusher without Diffusal/Manta/Heart
-No early ganking or roaming power
-Unable to support or solo
-Easy to bully out of lane in an even numbered matchup
-Weak escape mechanism
-Cannot farm 3 lanes and jungle at the same time

Tinker:
-Powerful global pusher with only Boots of Travel and Blink Dagger
-Humongous gank potential with Laser/Missle
-Can solo and doesn't need a support to protect him
-Near-impossible to push into without an appropriate team due to March of the Machines
-Has 10+ seconds of disable with just a Sheep Stick
-Can refresh his blink dagger for maximum mobility
-Can farm all the lanes, the jungle, and the ancients with ease
-Able to put out 800+ magic damage a second with Dagon 5
-Impossible to use dust on once he purchases Manta+Shadowblade due to rearm
-Has a nicer beard

Tinker is a carry that can perform more roles than PL. #opimbala

I'd like to propose a game of TEAM PL IS OP vs TEAM PL IS NOT OP. The former team can have 4 heroes of their choice + PL, and the latter team will draft around whatever picks the former wants. I'll captain the latter team.

Whoa whoa whoa, now let's be fair here. I agree with TEAM PL IS NOT OP, but this is a little unfair since you could draft Timbersaw and Bloodseeker and still win.