Dota 2 Beta Thread V: Real Talk Strikes Back [Tutorials]

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PL is easy to counter if you can counterpick him. So...that's great if you only ever play Captain's Mode and Random Draft. In any other mode the PL isn't going to lock in his pick until the very last second before the horn blows, and then its just "did you guys happen on a good composition against him"
 
I think the evidence is pretty clear that Phantom Lancer isn't overpowered at the professional level - almost never banned, not a common pick, and an average 50/50 win rate. A lot of that has little to do with specifics of PL himself. His role is that of an endgame carry who spends the entire midgame farming and has no teamfight presence until he finishes his core, and that role just doesn't work very well in the current professional metagame. For that matter, I don't think he's the best pub carry. I would have given that title to Drow Ranger before her nerf; now things are a lot closer, but I'd probably give it to Troll Warlord.

What I don't understand is the claim that Phantom Lancer isn't difficult to kill at the pub level. Just like there's statistics which back up the claim that PL is balanced in tournament play, there's statistics which back up the claim that PL is the hardest hero to kill in pub play. The stats on Dotabuff show him as having far and away the fewest average deaths per game. It's not even close; every hero listed in this thread as harder to kill has substantially more average deaths per game than PL does.
 
Bo said:
Seldom picked, because he is anything but the monster Shepard seems to think he is.
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He might be not as hard as I'm picturing (again, I only think he needs minor adjustments) but also not as easy as you guys keep saying.

We should move on to another topic, like how Troll's ulti is actually broken right now. :P

Also, I'll wait for my good computer to be fixed so I can match with you guys and show the OP hero PL is B)
 
I'm still stuck somewhere in the middle.
I don't think PL needs a nerf to make him worse, I just wish he was changed so he's more fun. He's such a fucking chore to play against. I would of put the old morph and lycan under that category. It's not that they were super strong (they were pretty strong though), its just not that fun having to focus so hard on playing against 1 person on the enemy team, and then slip up and they crush you.

Maybe this is more to do with the concept of the hardest carries rather than PL himself though. :/

I'm sure icefrog will do something to mix things up though. Maybe Timbersaw will get buffed to be an ultra-PL counter.
 
Phandy said:
I'm still stuck somewhere in the middle.
I don't think PL needs a nerf to make him worse, I just wish he was changed so he's more fun. He's such a fucking chore to play against. I would of put the old morph and lycan under that category. It's not that they were super strong (they were pretty strong though), its just not that fun having to focus so hard on playing against 1 person on the enemy team, and then slip up and they crush you.

Maybe this is more to do with the concept of the hardest carries rather than PL himself though. :/

I'm sure icefrog will do something to mix things up though. Maybe Timbersaw will get buffed to be an ultra-PL counter.
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I'd love an OD buff. Not going to happen, though.
 
Bo said:
You're not getting it, dude. The Magnus killed himself. The gif has zero relevance, because the hero who took the nuke took zero measures to make sure the first illusion wouldn't spawn others or kill him. Do you seriously think that's how that situation looks most of the time? Most of the time, the hero kites the illusion instead of letting it summon illusions for free.
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You should realize that you're not being very convincing when your argument is that magnus should just run. If the options are either 1) die to PL illusion(s) and 2) run, the games basically already over.
 
Vaporak said:
You should realize that you're not being very convincing when your argument is that magnus should just run. If the options are either 1) die to PL illusion(s) and 2) run, the games basically already over.
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700 GPM PL tends to do that. This isn't a matter of hero balance anymore. They lost it when they let the hard carry go out of control.

If you're arguing for nerfs by citing how difficult it is to defeat an uberfarmed hard carry, well I have news for you: Stop playing this game and don't look back.
 
Vaporak said:
You should realize that you're not being very convincing when your argument is that magnus should just run. If the options are either 1) die to PL illusion(s) and 2) run, the games basically already over.
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Often you don't want to fight an Ursa up close either. Your options are generally either 1) Die to swipes 2) run. You can't be too proud to turn tail when the situation is not in your favour, that's dota.
 
Vaporak said:
You should realize that you're not being very convincing when your argument is that magnus should just run. If the options are either 1) die to PL illusion(s) and 2) run, the games basically already over.
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What do you think should happen when a carry gets complete free farm and is 5 levels higher than you?
 
I don't know a whole lot about OP heros and nerfing.

But I personally think Mirana needs some tweaking. Just making her a smidge bit stronger I think would make her more competitive. Just me though.
 
Catatonic said:
I don't know a whole lot about OP heros and nerfing.

But I personally think Mirana needs some tweaking. Just making her a smidge bit stronger I think would make her more competitive. Just me though.
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Yeah I'd like to see Starfall and Arrow on a little bit shorter timer like 8 SF and 12 sec arrow or something.
 
Everyone who's been complaining about PL in the last 10 pages is an awful player that makes up the bottom 50% of the matchmaking pool that even new accounts and smurfs can't get into. The hero's perfectly fine, if you're gonna cry about a hero cry about an actual broken hero. (ie. Slark, Bat)
 
1.09 said:
Everyone who's been complaining about PL in the last 10 pages is an awful player that makes up the bottom 50% of the matchmaking pool that even new accounts and smurfs can't get into. The hero's perfectly fine, if you're gonna cry about a hero cry about an actual broken hero. (ie. Slark, Bat)
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You leave my Slark alone.
 
1.09 said:
Everyone who's been complaining about PL in the last 10 pages is an awful player that makes up the bottom 50% of the matchmaking pool that even new accounts and smurfs can't get into. The hero's perfectly fine, if you're gonna cry about a hero cry about an actual broken hero. (ie. Slark, Bat)
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Nahh, Bat and Slark can be countered easier than a PL and you dont have to worry about them farming. They are Pub heroes(jk, but far from broken).
Kreunt said:
PL isnt even in the top 10 win rates.
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Win rates mean that much? Warlock is ultra OP, then.
 
15 hours, 12, characters and I'm pretty terrible at this game. Still enjoying it but I need lots of practice. Also having a hard time picking a hero to main. So many options its a bit overwhelming.
 
DSmalls84 said:
15 hours, 12, characters and I'm pretty terrible at this game. Still enjoying it but I need lots of practice. Also having a hard time picking a hero to main. So many options its a bit overwhelming.
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Don't "main" heroes. It doesn't work like a fighting game in Dota. Every hero does something different and has different purposes. You need to pick what your team needs, or counters the other team. Sure, everyone has their pool of heroes that they really like or really excel at, and have some they absolutely cannot or late to play. Even the pros have a bunch of heroes they usually play, but can play all of them to some degree.
 
Thanks for the tip. I have just been playing with randoms against bots so far. Easy is not as easy as I was expecting. I think the biggest hurdle is the overwhelming amount of information.
 
1.09 said:
Everyone who's been complaining about PL in the last 10 pages is an awful player that makes up the bottom 50% of the matchmaking pool that even new accounts and smurfs can't get into. The hero's perfectly fine, if you're gonna cry about a hero cry about an actual broken hero. (ie. Slark, Bat)
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1.09
Low Tier


u would know huehue


fuck magnus
 
You know when people say you should play support because that's what low level games need? Fuck that, you need someone who can carry much more :/
 
Des0lar said:
You know when people say you should play support because that's what low level games need? Fuck that, you need someone who can carry much more :/
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What's the hardest role in the game? I personally feel that being a ganker is the hardest part. You have to get kills to be successfull, you have to shut down the enemy team while your carry isnt ready... too much pressure. Support roles are the easiest (even tough being a good support is still hard) followed closely by the carries (specially if you have a good team).
 
Hylian7 said:
Don't "main" heroes. It doesn't work like a fighting game in Dota. Every hero does something different and has different purposes. You need to pick what your team needs, or counters the other team. Sure, everyone has their pool of heroes that they really like or really excel at, and have some they absolutely cannot or late to play. Even the pros have a bunch of heroes they usually play, but can play all of them to some degree.
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Don't listen to Hylian, play whoever you want. That's the best part. Learning a new hero and then seeing someone better stomp your ass, thus you either find a more efficient way to do things or you quit.
 
Shepard said:
Nahh, Bat and Slark can be countered easier than a PL and you dont have to worry about them farming. They are Pub heroes(jk, but far from broken).

Win rates mean that much? Warlock is ultra OP, then.
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Then why is Bat first banned or picked in every pro game? Are you just yanking my chain?
 
1.09 said:
Everyone who's been complaining about PL in the last 10 pages is an awful player that makes up the bottom 50% of the matchmaking pool that even new accounts and smurfs can't get into. The hero's perfectly fine, if you're gonna cry about a hero cry about an actual broken hero. (ie. Slark, Bat)
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I don't think Slark is over powered, he tends to be easily countered by high burst damage or other high mobility characters. Plus, him being a melee character that lacks Damage Mitigation makes it hard for him to carry later parts of the game if his team can't prevent the enemy from farming. If you can prevent the initial snow ball, he is a joke.
 
Shepard said:
What's the hardest role in the game? I personally feel that being a ganker is the hardest part. You have to get kills to be successfull, you have to shut down the enemy team while your carry isnt ready... too much pressure. Support roles are the easiest (even tough being a good support is still hard) followed closely by the carries (specially if you have a good team).
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I would say solo mid since it's the role with the biggest impact. You kinda dictate the initial pace of the game and how it develops depends a lot in your performance.

Easiest is support obviously
 
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