PillowKnight
Member
That's...strangely accurate. I wasn't agreeing with carry as the hardest role tho, it's obviously hard support.
Dota 2 Beta Thread V: Real Talk Strikes Back [Tutorials]
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It's tough because all the roles are pretty hard to do right, but I'd say support is the toughest once you get to the very end of the spectrum. Properly roaming, finding a little bit of farm when you can, dictating the early game, living with minimal items and levels... That shit is far from easy.
shira
Member
Try explaining to someone in lower level that courier is strictly for mid for early game.
They get all pissy, no it's for everyone, share.
Hard support requires a very different skill set, I wouldn't use the same metrics for it as I would for other roles.
It's execution light, but theory heavy.
It's like playing poker while everyone else is playing football.
boots on crow, lane pushed to tower, fuck
edit: lane pushed to enemy towers, aka free side shop access
Captain Fish
Member
I don't care what you guys say about PL, but I will not stand with this shit talk against best hero.
Slark and Bat are fine.
You mean like Treant Protector? And then DD picked him and rocked the house with Living Armor?
Seriously now, how do you play timbersaw? I get that he's supposed to be a mid game force with that pure damage, but he needs so much mana that he always ends up being underwhelming, specially if you go for a bloodstone.
I can only play him if i go my build of Euls+ Shiva's, everything else is very crappy imo.
Edit: Slark is fine as it is, just pray to the heavens people still haven't discovered the superior Diffusal build. Bat is borderline broken, but ina diferent way (he turns the game into a much different playstyle, like wisp)
I can only play him if i go my build of Euls+ Shiva's, everything else is very crappy imo.
Edit: Slark is fine as it is, just pray to the heavens people still haven't discovered the superior Diffusal build. Bat is borderline broken, but ina diferent way (he turns the game into a much different playstyle, like wisp)
He is very easy to play:
1. Find a target, pull yourself into a tree, miss your attack
2. Throw his first skill, do some damage and some auo-attacks
3. Throw your ulti, keep the enemy inside for a few secs
4. Realize you can't kill the enemy, latch onto the nearest tree, run
5. Repeat, ocasianlly throwing your ulti to the other side of the river or inside the enemy base.
Anyone have mouse recommendations for Dota 2? I've never owned a gaming mouse or anything approaching one; my current mouse only has two buttons (one on each side). Those crazy things with like 20 small buttons on the side freak me out. Seems difficult to use. I've also been meaning to learn WASD camera control, if anyone has some thoughts to share on that.
Bloodstone sucks, Euls / Atos / Shivas rules.
I use a death adder but it's starting to die on me. Comes with two cute extra buttons.
I use a death adder but it's starting to die on me. Comes with two cute extra buttons.
I used to have a Deathadder, but one of the buttons died on me. I replaced it with a Logitech G700 and I love it though. Can't really go long with either mouse. The Deathadder lasted me 3 years.
I've had my G9 for 5 years. Has two buttons on the side and I find that's the sweet spot for me. Would love to upgrade to a G700 soon but I wont stray from Logitech due to how solid my current mouse is.
electroshockwave
Member
PL just needs tweaks and I couldn't say where exactly but having played against him as a Lina earlier I think his magic resistance would be a start. I don't know why exactly he has it apart from his wizard fight biography. It's kind of bullshit that AOE magic seems like it would be a counter to him but he just shrugs it off. And try hitting the right PL with a single target nuke in a swarm or just after he doppelwalks. Ulti wasted.
Doppelwalk would be the other candidate. Can any other hero go invis with no fade/cast time and gain movement speed? Then there's the decoy illusion on top of that.
Doppelwalk would be the other candidate. Can any other hero go invis with no fade/cast time and gain movement speed? Then there's the decoy illusion on top of that.
shira
Member
A good player can beat you with any hero.
A good team with teamwork can beat any team.
It's not so much as rankings as how well you can exploit each heroes abilities against the enemy team.
What makes dota so interesting is there are ~100 heroes, so each time you play those variables are usually different.
They can all be useful but some of them are more tricky/difficult to use properly. Their efficiency also depends on the composition of the opposing team. It also depends on what kind of role you want to play.
There are many ways to break it down, but I found this one to be the easiest to understand.
The Chinese Dota teams use something called the 1-5 system, where each person on the team is a number 1-5. These are basically in terms of how much farm (money and items) they should be getting.
1- Your hardest carry, will be farming a lot early. Generally your safe lane carry. Usually a Lifestealer, Gyrocopter, Faceless Void, and others are in this category.
2 - Right below the 1. They may be jungling, mid, or offlane ever if they can do that (Lone Druid).
3 - Middle of the road guy, this is where the mid may often fall. Also may do some support duties too.
4 - Support, but maybe needs one item to really do things (Like Tidehunter needing Blink)
5 - Probably buying most of the wards and such. Not really that item dependent, but if they have a chance to get good items, it's never a bad thing. Usually the supports that buy Arcane Boots. Jakiro is a good example of this.
It's difficult to evaluate heroes like that because a single hero might be bad in one metagame and better in another, and the meta is dictated by the overall balance between the heroes and the particular quirks of each team.
That said, there are definitely some stand out "bad heroes" that haven't been buffed because Icefraud doesn't know if it's a numbers problem or a design problem, and remakes take a while.
If I had to make a list it would be something like:
Doom
Broodmother
Necrolyte
Bloodseeker
Doom is a fantastic ganker. 1 in devour, max level? doom and scorched earth take ult at appropriately levels AND EAT EVERYONE. He's great because he can be whatever you need. Need someone fast? Get the gotta go fast aura. Need damage? Find yourself a tiger and stomp their shit. Seriously all you need is phase and you should be ganking to win for the rest of the game.
- Doom could be a great carry, but right now he is a great ulti, and that's it. I can see him working as a caster, but that's too much gold to make him useful, even more when he's not carrying the game (he is very item dependant).
- Even in pubs spirit braker isnt that good unless he has somoene with the same mobility to back him up, like NP, Storm Spirit or Lifestealer.
-Timbersaw has an easy to evade slow, and his power to close the gap between him and the enemy is, imo, unreliable (easy to predict, hard to land, needs trees), also, has some severe mana problems.
- Broodmother is great once she farms, but its really hard to farm with her: easily countered with sentries in the lane, one of the lowest (?) base damage in the game, any AoE can stop her spiderlings, no reliable escape.
To be fair, you can say that about Chen too...
You mean tinker is the batman of dota though, right?
Alright, I'll take that.
No, he's Squirrel Girl.
Chen can clear camps solo without being a free kill for any roaming support/mid.
Chen can hold onto his creeps after death if he micros them.
Chen can get three of them at once time and they persist from one camp to the next.
Chen has an innate slow early and global presence later.
Doom is just fat stinky ass.
Well, there's your problem. Are you jungling Doom, buddy?
wasting a solo lane on a hero that has less carry potential then vs, less gank potential then roaming alchemist, and less lane presence then a bag of kettle chips seems like a great idea when the game is 5v5. Yea lemme go lane that doombringer real quick.
Alchemist's only gank potential rests on an easily avoided, charging stun whereas Doom's gankage focuses around every ability he has including a long term very good damage aura with a speed bonus attached to it and a high damage nuke with a ministun component on a shortish cooldown if they try to tp and the ulti of ultis for killing nearly everyone. I'd take Doom's gankage over Alchy any day. And he hits hard as shit with farm and tiger aura so I don't really see him having drastically worse carry potential than VS.
Whoa! I know things get heated around here but what the fuck, man? Let's not say things we'll regret tomorrow, k?
Or a tree
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Drunk Draskyl with the gdstudio commentating in the background was so funny.
Nope.
#yolosummer
bro it's going to take more than 1 joke IH to convince me that Medusa isn't as useful as freakinchair PL.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
Don't mess with the Necro bro.
Schweinehund
Member
bottom in pubs/solo normal queue ap, higher end:
medusa
broodmother
bloodseeker
timber
shadowfiend
I don't see some heroes at all, huskar is never picked and neither is OD. Those 5 are picked on rare occasion. SF isn't bad but I think he needs a good lineup like brood does, and let's face it, all SF players are egotistical assholes.
edit: Also want to point out razor is the most forgettable and odd hero. I don't want to say he's great but he does have his moments.
medusa
broodmother
bloodseeker
timber
shadowfiend
I don't see some heroes at all, huskar is never picked and neither is OD. Those 5 are picked on rare occasion. SF isn't bad but I think he needs a good lineup like brood does, and let's face it, all SF players are egotistical assholes.
edit: Also want to point out razor is the most forgettable and odd hero. I don't want to say he's great but he does have his moments.
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