Dota 2 Beta Thread V: Real Talk Strikes Back [Tutorials]

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SteveWinwood said:
DnhUUts.jpg
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Hahaha, blame magic the gathering
 
My first Night Stalker match went horribly. I've seen him played enough times to where I knew what I was supposed to do, but when that first night came I was underfarmed (didn't even have boots) and every gank I attempted failed miserably. It didn't help that 4 out of the 5 opponents were tanky strength heroes; instead of having squishy supports that I could go massacre I was attempting to gank a Skeleton King and Axe. I could never find that goddamn Lina. So yeah I fell behind early and it fucked me over for the rest of the match.
 
Luap said:
My first Night Stalker match went horribly. I've seen him played enough times to where I knew what I was supposed to do, but when that first night came I was underfarmed (didn't even have boots) and every gank I attempted failed miserably. It didn't help that 4 out of the 5 opponents were tanky strength heroes; instead of having squishy supports that I could go massacre I was attempting to gank a Skeleton King and Axe. I could never find that goddamn Lina. So yeah I feel behind early and it fucked me over for the rest of the match.
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Did you random? I probably would've never picked NS against that lineup...Whenever I play NS, I always have this overwhelming internal pressure to make something happen the first night. It often gets me in a lot of trouble. Also, in regards to not having farm, if I'm in a tough lane, I'll delay leveling my abilities and just put 1 or 2 points into void which allows me to last hit using it. That keeps me from falling to far behind in farm...
 
patapuf said:
What has worked well for me and basically everyone i introduced to the game:

- Choose a bunch of heroes stick to them at the beginning. This allows you to learn all the other mechanics important in dota without having to worry how your hero plays. It also allows basic experimentation with builds, items, lane partners ect.

- To mix it up or if you get bored of your current heroes play single draft or just try out a hero you think might be cool.

- Read basic guides of heroes you are not sure how to play, they often give a pretty good overview of how a hero plays/what roles he is good in.

I think you learn the most about a hero if you play him yourself a few times, but there's also no rush to play everyone, take your time.
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I like this advice. Anyone want to help me build a stable of heroes to stick with at the beginning?

So far, I'm thinking these couple, but I can't remember who else I've played

Support:
Jakiro (he's pretty damn friendly to do OK with)
Windrunner (I'm kind of bad with her, but I like her in theory--shackle shot <3)
Lion (I haven't had a lot of success, but he's ranged and has nice utility

Carry:
Ursa (fun to jungle)
Lifestealer (also fun to jungle)

Other roles I should focus on (meaning, should I be granular and have a few designated push chars or initiators)?

Not sure about:
Luna (squishy?)
Bounty Hunter (I dunno, I feel cheap about stealth chars)
SK (just didn't like him, felt boring)
Enigma (would probably work?? had fun with him at least)
TA (seems pretty squishy, managing those traps is a pain)
Lina (her last hitting is a pain, but she seems fun)
Vengeful Spirit (I might try her again, she was the first or second hero I tried and it was ok)
Puck (Never played it, but he seems neat...)
Treant (played him once, was ok, not sure if he's someone I should try to stick with)

Won't use:
Lone Druid (omg, tried this last night and I cannot manage two heroes)
Meepo (if I cannot manage two heroes...)
Invoker (lol)

I also theoretically enjoy skill shots (Windrunner, Vengeful Spirit, Jakiro)--tips on people with those?

I dunno, building a noob stable for myself would be fun.
 
Luap said:
My first Night Stalker match went horribly. I've seen him played enough times to where I knew what I was supposed to do, but when that first night came I was underfarmed (didn't even have boots) and every gank I attempted failed miserably. It didn't help that 4 out of the 5 opponents were tanky strength heroes; instead of having squishy supports that I could go massacre I was attempting to gank a Skeleton King and Axe. I could never find that goddamn Lina. So yeah I fell behind early and it fucked me over for the rest of the match.
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Well Beastmaster and Alchemist should be relativly easy pick offs as well, since you can just silence Alch once he starts his stun (and if you time it right he will stun himself)

But yeah if you get the feeling you can't get well, just go back to farming.
 
Gully State said:
It takes 10 min with this game to get competent at invoking spells...If anything it significantly cuts down the time it takes to learn how to play him..
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Oh, I'm not knocking it, I'm just chagrining at the idea of becoming proficient enough with him to go into a pub when I'm still dying in lane with WR.
 
@SnakeswithLasers, from one noob to another:

I would recommend giving Vengeful Spirit a few more tries. Venge and Lion are easier supports to play than Jakiro because their stuns can be targeted on heroes. I still manage to whiff a decent amount of Jakiro stuns. :[ I would also highly recommend Shadow Demon and Disruptor as great supports that have awesome utility without needing too much farm. (They are two of my favorite heroes in the game.) Ogre Magi, Shadow Shaman, and Crystal Maiden also deserve mentions.

Lifestealer is an awesome carry for new and pro players because he is OP has a great kit and is straightforward to play. Huskar, Sven, Drow Ranger, Luna, and Troll Warlord are also rather straightforward carries who don't take too long to come online (unlike Anti-Mage, Faceless Void, Medusa). If you want to try playing a hard carry, you can try Phantom Assassin, who was my first. She requires a decent amount of farm but the good thing is that you can use her Q move to get safe last hits from a distance if you're getting harassed. She only has 2 active skills so she isn't too difficult to play.

As for other recommendations, I would say Zeus and Riki. They are both such good pubstomp heroes that even an idiot like me can do very well with them with barely any support from teammates.

I don't have any tips for skill shots... you just need to practice a lot.
 
You can destroy with Invoker even with only 2-3 spells if you go with a Quas Exort build (think cold snap, sun strike and some set-up item like Euls) and have fairly good metagame skills like map awareness, positioning, ganking and overall timing.

here is a replay of a game that I played on my brother's laptop with a 18-1 score using only cold snap and sun strike:

http://dotabuff.com/matches/204436940
 
SnakeswithLasers said:
I like this advice. Anyone want to help me build a stable of heroes to stick with at the beginning?
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From one noob to another, here's the list I've been keeping

Heroes I like
Carry:
Drow
Juggernaut
Gyrocopter
Necrolyte

Support:
Brewmaster
Earthshaker
Magnus
Jakiro(kind of)
Lina
Lion

Don't really know what these heroes are:
Death Prophet
Pugna
Dark Seer
Bounty Hunter

I hated Tusk, Kunkka, Venomancer, Bane, Visage, Skeleton King, Tidehunter, Sven, and Meepo. In general I've found I enjoy playing support more since there's not as much pressure.
 
Luap said:
@SnakeswithLasers, from one noob to another:

I would recommend giving Vengeful Spirit a few more tries. Venge and Lion are easier supports to play than Jakiro because their stuns can be targeted on heroes. I still manage to whiff a decent amount of Jakiro stuns. :[ I would also highly recommend Shadow Demon and Disruptor as great supports that have awesome utility without needing too much farm. (They are two of my favorite heroes in the game.) Ogre Magi, Shadow Shaman, and Crystal Maiden also deserve mentions.

Lifestealer is an awesome carry for new and pro players because he is OP has a great kit and is straightforward to play. Huskar, Sven, Drow Ranger, Luna, and Troll Warlord are also rather straightforward carries who don't take too long to come online (unlike Anti-Mage, Faceless Void, Medusa). If you want to try playing a hard carry, you can try Phantom Assassin, who was my first. She requires a decent amount of farm but the good thing is that you can use her Q move to get safe last hits from a distance if you're getting harassed. She only has 2 active skills so she isn't too difficult to play.

As for other recommendations, I would say Zeus and Riki. They are both such good pubstomp heroes that even an idiot like me can do very well with them with barely any support from teammates.

I don't have any tips for skill shots... you just need to practice a lot.
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sixghost said:
From one noob to another, here's the list I've been keeping

Heroes I like
Carry:
Drow
Juggernaut
Gyrocopter
Necrolyte

Support:
Brewmaster
Earthshaker
Magnus
Jakiro(kind of)
Lina
Lion

Don't really know what these heroes are:
Death Prophet
Pugna
Dark Seer
Bounty Hunter

I hated Tusk, Kunkka, Venomancer, Bane, Visage, and Meepo. In general I've found I enjoy playing support more since there's not as much pressure.
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By the way, thanks to both of you.
 
sixghost said:
From one noob to another, here's the list I've been keeping

Heroes I like
Carry:
Drow
Juggernaut
Gyrocopter
Necrolyte

Support:
Brewmaster
Earthshaker
Magnus
Jakiro(kind of)
Lina
Lion

Don't really know what these heroes are:
Death Prophet
Pugna
Dark Seer
Bounty Hunter

I hated Tusk, Kunkka, Venomancer, Bane, Visage, Skeleton King, Tidehunter, Sven, and Meepo. In general I've found I enjoy playing support more since there's not as much pressure.
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brewmaster is not a support, bounter hunter is a ganker carry
 
sixghost said:
I start to get a bit confused when heroes aren't clear supports or carries. I know he's an initiator that needs some farm. What would you classify him as?
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Initiator/ganker/team fight control. 2 or 3 role. You probably want to run him mid in most cases, but he can make do in other lanes if the rest of the lineup doesn't allow for that. Same deal with Magnus which was also incorrectly placed under support.
 
sixghost said:
I start to get a bit confused when heroes aren't clear supports or carries. I know he's an initiator that needs some farm. What would you classify him as?
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Semi-carry. Someone who scales well into the mid game with items, but is out classed in the later game by carries who have actual damage scaling and mitigation. He is really strong in the 15-30 minute window, and then starts to be less useful.

Rather then thinking about a character as clear cut as "Carry" or "Support", you should consider when they are their most potent, and how much money and XP they need to facilitate that.
 
SnakeswithLasers said:
I like this advice. Anyone want to help me build a stable of heroes to stick with at the beginning?

So far, I'm thinking these couple, but I can't remember who else I've played

Support:
Jakiro (he's pretty damn friendly to do OK with)
Windrunner (I'm kind of bad with her, but I like her in theory--shackle shot <3)
Lion (I haven't had a lot of success, but he's ranged and has nice utility

Carry:
Ursa (fun to jungle)
Lifestealer (also fun to jungle)

Other roles I should focus on (meaning, should I be granular and have a few designated push chars or initiators)?

Not sure about:
Luna (squishy?) - A carry with some good early agression capabilities. She does go late game very well.
Bounty Hunter (I dunno, I feel cheap about stealth chars) - Don't feel cheap using him, he's a ganker, that can sort of carry, but he is not "proper" carry. The main reason he is picked competitively is for Track, so the whole team can get the extra cash. On top of that Track gives true sight of the tracked hero.
SK (just didn't like him, felt boring) - Which SK? There's Sand King or Skeleton King.
Enigma (would probably work?? had fun with him at least) - Initiator/Support. Most people jungle with him. If you can do it right with his jungling, you can get money really fast. My favorite build on him is to make sure to get two branches in your starting gold, then go Soul Ring > Boots (don't upgrade until later) > Mekansm > Blink Dagger > Boots of Travel. You basically jump in for Black Hooooooooles.
TA (seems pretty squishy, managing those traps is a pain) - Ganking Carry. She can go mid. Refaction is awesome, remember this can shield you from ENTIRE NUKES! People used to run Blink Dagger, but it's really better now to stack up move speed on her, like with a Yasha and Drums.
Lina (her last hitting is a pain, but she seems fun) - Support, but she can also go mid, but you don't see that very often these days. Get Mana Boots, other support items.
Vengeful Spirit (I might try her again, she was the first or second hero I tried and it was ok) - Also support/initiation. The recommonded build says weird things for her, like Treads. No idea why you would want Treads on her when you need Arcane Boots on her.
Puck (Never played it, but he seems neat...) - One of my favorite heroes. Puck is a Ganker that transitions into a teamfight initiator as the game goes on. Puck usually goes mid, but can also be run offlane. You generally want Puck somewhere where it can get farm. Blink Dagger is absolutely important because you can Blink immediately out of Phase Shift. On max level, Phase Shift lasts longer than three seconds, the on-damage cooldown for Blink Dagger. Really fun hero!
Treant (played him once, was ok, not sure if he's someone I should try to stick with)This hero has been all over the place lately. He has a very strong attack damage early, but his abilities are that of a support/initiator. His best skill is Living Armor, low mana cost and low cooldown. You can basically afford to keep this thing on cooldown, even before you have Arcane Boots.

Won't use:
Lone Druid (omg, tried this last night and I cannot manage two heroes) - Carry/Pusher. Most people would take a look at the guy and think "Jungler!" at first, at least that was my very first impression of him. However his lane presence is so strong. He can solo the offlane and get lots of farm there. One of the few heroes that really excels at that! The micromanagement takes practice, but you'll eventually get the hang of it.
Meepo (if I cannot manage two heroes...) - Carry. Basically, before you have scepter it's like having 1 and 16/10 heroes. After Scepter it's like having five full heroes. Micro can be intimidating, but the secret to it is that the main thing you need to worry about is the main Meepo, and the other four Meepos in a group. The only time you really need to mess with an individual one is if they have low health and you're pulling them out.
Invoker (lol) - Challenging hero, has many different ways to be built to fill different roles. You really have to look up the builds on this one before you give it a go. Also keep in mind that his skills don't level the same as other heroes. There is no "level stats" on him, because Quas/Wex/Exort make up his stats. The levels for taking his ultimate are also different than normal because he would be completely useless without it.

I also theoretically enjoy skill shots (Windrunner, Vengeful Spirit, Jakiro)--tips on people with those?

I dunno, building a noob stable for myself would be fun.
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I see this has been answered, but here's my take on it.
 
ibpZNBdraG2erp.jpg


had this little run, and then we get a first pick sniper, second pick wr, then wr wants mid. Sniper and WR get bodied and that's that.
 
Schweinehund said:
spectre, medusa, drow, lich are boring.

PA's saving grace is huge critz.
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Drow can be fun if only because eating every enemy alive at like the fifteen minute mark can be satisfying, in the way that turning on god mode in a shooter is occasionally. Lich is...usually pretty dull, but at least I can contribute something to teamfights before thirty minutes in
 
I hope that when I send the chat:

"qqqqqqqrrrr"

you all understand why I stood around during the team fight and did nothing.

RE: Lich - I find it fun to try and be the super exp denier. Between eating creeps and stack/pulling I like to see how exp starved I can make the other team.
 
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