Dota 2 Beta Thread V: Real Talk Strikes Back [Tutorials]

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Naga and Morph. Am I watching TI2 Dignitas?

I like the mid Naga in a similar role as DK has been as of late. She might even be better at it than he is. Possibly scales better due to the items she likes to get.
 
This notail interview at dreamhack right now is hilarious.

Cba to upload so a /vg link:

1371325005712.jpg
 
I am hardly the world's best player, probably not even average, but there is something so satisfying in joining a pub match against a 4-stack and completely obliterating them. Finished with a 10/0/10 line on Lich. Now to stop playing before I get stomped by bots because my team has no concept of what an "Initiator" is.
 
Are those earnings just adding up tournament money wins? Just wondering how much their organizations like NaVi take for themselves because dont the players get a salary?

This is just gross earnings. They probably had to pay some form of taxes and had some amount taken out by the teams that they play on.
 
My only real complaint about Level 1 Rosh is that it heavily favors dire, as radiant will need a smoke or something to get there soon enough. Of course you can argue that because it "favors" dire, a radiant level 1 rosh is an unexpected strat less prone to being countered.
 
http://steamcommunity.com/id/nonnomjin/

Thanks Ikuu for the heads up. Guys, watch out for this scammer, he's impersonating me (and other people, including other gaffers) and asking to borrow their expensive dota 2 items.

My steam link is unique to:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/ellenpudge

So always make sure that the person you're talking to is actually me, and just be aware that I'd never ask to borrow your item.

So it wasn't you who wanted to borrow my Arcana Lina hair?!?!?!?!


:d
 
Level 1 rosh is as "stupid" as 4pool.

It's a lot easier to scout a 4 pool than a level 1 rosh and it's incredibly easy to recover from a failed level 1 rosh (assuming you didn't get wiped for some dumb reason)There's plenty of reasonable cheese in dota. Heavy push strats or 5 man ganks mid, things like that. Level 1 rosh makes the game a waste of time from minute one for no reason other than the fact that you didn't decide to check it one game.

It's not even like you need a specific/obvious lineup. Level 1 rosh is doable with almost anything if you bring enough salves.



why do you think that?

I covered most of it above, but it really just makes for awful games. I don't like watching a team play from such a huge disadvantage for the entire game (you should have enough map control for consecutive roshes).
 
Not sure how rare these are but I just got 2 Mythical's in a row out of the new chest.. The Blood Shard and the Scythe of Pestilence.. are these worth anything?
 
They need to stop Roshan from spawning until neutral creeps spawn. Level 1 roshes are just stupid.

This makes no sense to me at all. Its already a enough of a risk as it is to do it sub 00:00 but to make people have to wait till neutrals spawn so they loos out on XP and its a huge tell that your team is there when no one is in any of the lanes.

Going for an opening Rosh is cheesy but easily countered, and its fun for spectators to watch.
 
This makes no sense to me at all. Its already a enough of a risk as it is to do it sub 00:00 but to make people have to wait till neutrals spawn so they loos out on XP and its a huge tell that your team is there when no one is in any of the lanes.

Going for an opening Rosh is cheesy but easily countered, and its fun for spectators to watch.

The thing is that it's not much of a risk. Put up a ward and give up if the enemy team comes. If they don't, you get a free rosh and an easy game.

The point of him not spawning until neutral creeps is to completely get rid of level 1 roshans. I just don't want them in the game at all.
 
The thing is that it's not much of a risk. Put up a ward and give up if the enemy team comes. If they don't, you get a free rosh and an easy game.

The point of him not spawning until neutral creeps is to completely get rid of level 1 roshans. I just don't want them in the game at all.

Yes it is. If you have to back out, you've spent most of your cash on regen that you used in the Rosh pit, and won't have in lane. You will be missing out on some XP because everyone has to walk back to their lanes. Some people may even have to go back to base, and buy a TP to go to lane depending on the situation. It's very much a risk.
 
Are you not taking into account the huge sum of money you lose if you fail a level 1 Roshan? Salves aren't free, nor the mana you have to replenish during laning, nor the TPs if you try to get to the pit quickly. How is the tactic so intolerable to you that you wish it didn't exist?
 
The thing is that it's not much of a risk. Put up a ward and give up if the enemy team comes. If they don't, you get a free rosh and an easy game.

So you devote your team picks, first abilities, and starting items to achieve one objective then you fail to get it? I think that's a pretty big loss for the team that went for the level 1 rosh strat.
 
Yes it is. If you have to back out, you've spent most of your cash on regen that you used in the Rosh pit, and won't have in lane. You will be missing out on some XP because everyone has to walk back to their lanes. Some people may even have to go back to base, and buy a TP to go to lane depending on the situation. It's very much a risk.

None of these are really major issues. Yeah, it sucks a bit, but you run your trilane in the safelane and play safe to mitigate the damage. The only lane that really gets hit hard is the mid-lane and you have options for that (pooling/ganking).

Are you not taking into account the huge sum of money you lose if you fail a level 1 Roshan? Salves aren't free, nor the mana you have to replenish during laning, nor the TPs if you try to get to the pit quickly. How is the tactic so intolerable to you that you wish it didn't exist?

Stats really only make a big difference in the mid lane. Having a bunch of regen isn't actually a big deal and any team that plans to scout a level 1 roshan is going to get there asap, which means you haven't been fighting rosh for very long. You aren't gonna burn tons of regen.


Are there actual statistics to back this up?

I don't know if I've ever seen a pro game where the team that did the level 1 rosh lost (major skill differences excluded). Alliance played horribly after their level 1 rosh against DK and still won.
 
3 stuns, an aura, and healing ward. It's not the most obvious of lineups but I'd still scout Rosh against that.
 
Stats really only make a big difference in the mid lane. Having a bunch of regen isn't actually a big deal and any team that plans to scout a level 1 roshan is going to get there asap, which means you haven't been fighting rosh for very long. You aren't gonna burn tons of regen.
Stats can make a difference everywhere, provided we're talking about competitive play and not pubs (where most everything can and does fly). And even assuming you haven't used a large chunk of your regen by the time the other team approaches the pit, exiting unscathed is fraught with risk. You practically have to walk away from Roshan preemptively to avoid a fight.... you're shortchanged for a good portion of your starting gold no matter what. That sort of disadvantage is one competitive teams have no problems taking advantage of, because the roshing team spent their gold in the assumption that they would have an experience advantage in lane (and didn't secure it). Anytime you cut corners and it doesn't pay off the enemy team has an opportunity to punish you for it.
 
Stats can make a difference everywhere, provided we're talking about competitive play and not pubs (where most everything can and does fly). And even assuming you haven't used a large chunk of your regen by the time the other team approaches the pit, exiting unscathed is fraught with risk. You practically have to walk away from Roshan preemptively to avoid a fight.... you're shortchanged for a good portion of your starting gold no matter what. That sort of disadvantage is one competitive teams have no problems taking advantage of, because the roshing team spent their gold in the assumption that they would have an experience advantage in lane (and didn't secure it). Anytime you cut corners and it doesn't pay off the enemy team has an opportunity to punish you for it.

There's a reason most support players opt for mass consumables (tangos/salves/clarities/smoke/wards) over stats. +3 stats doesn't make much of a difference outside of mid lane where that little bit of damage can matter.

edit - I would also argue that most of the time you see people picking up 3 branches to start with is because it turns into a magic wand.
 
You're downplaying the negatives way too much.

1. It definitely is a risk to level 1 rosh. Doing rosh this early means the roshing team will pick sub-optimal skills, end up clumped up in the rosh pit, and simply cannot engage comfortably into the enemy. Yes you can put up a ward, but the contesting side could just as easily use a smoke.

2. Most teams designed to rosh early are depending on taking the rosh. Sub-optimal spells, items, and hero composition means they desperately NEED the extra level and gold to regain an advantage. You lose rosh, you're walking into your lanes a lot weaker than you typically would be. Take a look at your own rosh team: DK has to waste at least 1 salve tanking rosh, SF will have -armor aura, Venge will have -armor spell, Jugg will have healing ward. Extremely weak at level 1 and your opponent could simply go tri vs tri and have the upper hand. You say spending regen isn't a major issue, but if you're now contesting their trilane, that regen is invaluable.

3. "Not checking rosh pit" is not a valid complaint. If you don't read the incoming early roshan or you choose to 5-man the jungle to place wards instead of checking it, that's on you and your team.
 
There's a reason most support players opt for mass consumables (tangos/salves/clarities/smoke/wards) over stats. +3 stats doesn't make much of a difference outside of mid lane where that little bit of damage can matter.

edit - I would also argue that most of the time you see people picking up 3 branches to start with is because it turns into a magic wand.
Uh, that's because said support players are making a conscious decision to sacrifice the security that stat items give them for consumables that better the team at large. It isn't a situation of it being good for mid and not really other lanes.
 
You're downplaying the negatives way too much.

1. It definitely is a risk to level 1 rosh. Doing rosh this early means the roshing team will pick sub-optimal skills, end up clumped up in the rosh pit, and simply cannot engage comfortably into the enemy. Yes you can put up a ward, but the contesting side could just as easily use a smoke.

2. Most teams designed to rosh early are depending on taking the rosh. Sub-optimal spells, items, and hero composition means they desperately NEED the extra level and gold to regain an advantage. You lose rosh, you're walking into your lanes a lot weaker than you typically would be. Take a look at your own rosh team: DK has to waste at least 1 salve tanking rosh, SF will have -armor aura, Venge will have -armor spell, Jugg will have healing ward. Extremely weak at level 1 and your opponent could simply go tri vs tri and have the upper hand. You say spending regen isn't a major issue, but if you're now contesting their trilane, that regen is invaluable.

3. "Not checking rosh pit" is not a valid complaint. If you don't read the incoming early roshan or you choose to 5-man the jungle to place wards instead of checking it, that's on you and your team.

1. It's a risk, but again, it's not that big a deal. Let's put it this way. The disadvantage you get in laning after a failed rosh is insignificant compared the advantage you get if you pull it off.

2. DK bottle crows anyways
SF doesn't really need to take his Presence. It's nice, but unnecessary. He can, though, in lieu of Venge wave.
Venge can skip the -armor.
Jugg doesn't need healing ward, but it does help.

The most important part, though, is that even in the event of a failed rosh, Venge and Lina can be very mobile.

3. You pretty much have to check Rosh every game and that's just a stupid way to play dota.

Uh, that's because said support players are making a conscious decision to sacrifice the security that stat items give them for consumables that better the team at large. It isn't a situation of it being good for mid and not really other lanes.

I've had several good players (ixmike being one of them) tell me that stats on a support are less valuable than consumables as starting items. I'm inclined to agree with them based on my experience as well.
 
I've had several good players tell me that stats on a support are less valuable than consumables as starting items (ixmike being one of them). I'm inclined to agree with them based on my experience as well.
Because consumables can be shared/benefit the team, and supports are the heroes expected to make sacrifices in the first place. A stat point is still as inherently useful to that hero in isolation (less so to the team).
 
PW neogaf for inhouse, let's go!

1. It's a risk, but again, it's not that big a deal. Let's put it this way. The disadvantage you get in laning after a failed rosh is insignificant compared the advantage you get if you pull it off.

2. DK bottle crows anyways
SF doesn't really need to take his Presence. It's nice, but unnecessary. He can, though, in lieu of Venge wave.
Venge can skip the -armor.
Jugg doesn't need healing ward, but it does help.

The most important part, though, is that even in the event of a failed rosh, Venge and Lina can be very mobile.

3. You pretty much have to check Rosh every game and that's just a stupid way to play dota.

1. It is a big deal, and it doesn't matter if the disadvantage you get for failing isn't equal to the advantage you gain.
2. I'd love to see you Rosh successfully and quickly enough and without killing all your regen while not using those key spells, and I'd love to see your supports roam after a failed rosh.
3. No, you just have to know when to check Rosh, and it's not a big deal to have to check Rosh when their team comp allows them to do it.
 
Only 4 more hours till the hack of dreams has come back to singsing

Shiiiiet 12 hours of dotoday: Groups C/D + 1/4 finals - 12 down to 4

edit: lol since AC is sponsored by EG for D2L looks like tobi gets all the navi - and AC gets all the playoffs and [A]
 
If you're playing a lord with a heal ability like Dazzle or Chen along side a Huskar, should I not be healing them when they're <20% health? I know Huskar gets an attack bonus the lower he is on hp. Should I just let him handle his own hp with armlet toggles? Should I avoid using Chen's sendback on Huskar in similar situations?
 
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