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[Topher]

"form a union with CWA to preserve and extend the studio's commitments to creative excellence, diversity and inclusion, and worker quality of life"

So they created a union for the sake of creating a union

 

[March Climber]

This is not people complaining about unique, artsy games.

But part of it is, and saying otherwise is splitting hairs to say 'but that's different though' in regards to the games I've listed that also do the same weird, quirky, non-mainstream things.

Aside from that, you're ignoring the larger point and harsh truth in that when these first parties foot the bill, these types of games just don't sell well enough for modern day businesses and at the same time, proven through numbers and through opinions, gamers just don't want to care about them anymore.

Regardless of what specific reasons people want to try and use for reasons why, these games simply don't sell enough for the big guys. It's why Nintendo will be the last ones to fund them.

 

[demigod]

Oh the laughing emoji thread stalker.

Shitty games is just like your opinion man. Keeper at 91% all reviews very positive is shitty? lol

Outside psychonauts, they were also making games that didn't have meaningful CCUs before MS acquisition and nobody cared or "worried" about them. They were on kickstarters with $400k goals on much bigger adventure game scopes than the recent projects. These are low risk projects. Playing the CCU game on DoubleFine now is just some warring low-level shit posting. It's only because of microsoft acquisition and the warriors, like you, out in full force trying to convince the world a studio that made no waves before is somehow in danger now. On top of being on fucking gamepass? Hard fucking choice to pay $30 for a weird short adventure or play 10 of them in a month on gamepass for the lower price.

Yes it's an audience problem with mainly shit tastes for the TRIPUHL AAYYY or the latest Twitch phenomenon that mainly dominate, or the ones that get >$100M dropped just in marketing, more budget in marketing than some studio's entire existence in spending, just like there's thousands under 1000 reviews gem games out there on Steam that are vastly ignored, just like I'll never forgive gamers for being shitheads and letting down the immersive sim genre time and time again. There's no glorifying of "gamers/audience" in my book. For an hardcore gaming forum, some of you guys sure don't give me the impression you're really that hardcore gamers. If there's no massive success, it sucks right? Fucking pathetic mentality. Next Marvel shit, wowowow that is something now!

Keeper Reviews - Metacritic

From Lee Petty and Double Fine Productions, Keeper is a beautiful and surreal otherworldly adventure, and a story told without words. On an island in a long-lost sea, a forgotten lighthouse stands dormant in the shadow of a distant mountain peak. As withering tendrils spread and coalesce, it...

www.metacritic.com

91% huh, stop the bootlicking. Their output is not sustainable.

 

[Gambit2483]

When MS has shut down studios that made games that actually sold or had critical acclaim....but your studio with 2 flops remain open.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Keeper Reviews - Metacritic

From Lee Petty and Double Fine Productions, Keeper is a beautiful and surreal otherworldly adventure, and a story told without words. On an island in a long-lost sea, a forgotten lighthouse stands dormant in the shadow of a distant mountain peak. As withering tendrils spread and coalesce, it...

www.metacritic.com

91% huh, stop the bootlicking. Their output is not sustainable.

 

[duck_sauce]

Do your job or fuck of, that's how it works.

I'd really like to see all those people who are currently strutting around making bold claims saying that all you have to do is work harder to keep your job when it happens to them in their own jobs. Sometimes I honestly wonder if these people even realize what they are actually saying right now.

 

[Buggy Loop]

But part of it is, and saying otherwise is splitting hairs to say 'but that's different though' in regards to the games I've listed that also do the same weird, quirky, non-mainstream things.

Aside from that, you're ignoring the larger point and harsh truth in that when these first parties foot the bill, these types of games just don't sell well enough for modern day businesses and at the same time, proven through numbers and through opinions, gamers just don't want to care about them anymore.

Regardless of what specific reasons people want to try and use for reasons why, these games simply don't sell enough for the big guys. It's why Nintendo will be the last ones to fund them.

Does anyone think that Microsoft looked at $400k kickstarter projects DoubleFine and thought that the buy would be about being big sellers?

Again, I will ask the samething for InXile. Does anyone think that InXile with ~$900k goal kickstarters, was bought to be a huge seller? Well actually Clockwork Revolution here is probably by far their studio's biggest project, DoubleFine has not went into that direction at all.

Microsoft bought into all kinds of studios. DoubleFine is a low risk studio.

We're not talking about >$200M Concord gaas shit level of risks here, nor $3.6B USD to buy Bungie to get your hands on the $766M loss Marathon.

DoubleFine latest projects are probably in the ~200k-600k budget, it's not even their biggest adventure scopes and they were budgeting them for $400K not even that long ago on kickstarter.

What is the definition of a flop when the games don't need much of an audience to recoup costs? Even SteamDB's estimated userbase, not the highest one, the one at 20.5K owners estimated, at $30 a pop, Steam's cut, you're at $420K, in-line with DoubleFine's kickstarter bigger scope adventures. Not counting Xbox here or the whole spaghetti of knowing how microsoft calculates success with gamepass.

Peoples are looking at DoubleFine with the same lens as some major projects or studios. They're 100% indie DNA. It's completely different budgets and scopes.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Does anyone think that Microsoft looked at $400k kickstarter projects DoubleFine and thought that the buy would be about being big sellers?

Again, I will ask the samething for InXile. Does anyone think that InXile with ~$900k goal kickstarters, was bought to be a huge seller? Well actually Clockwork Revolution here is probably by far their studio's biggest project, DoubleFine has not went into that direction at all.

Microsoft bought into all kinds of studios. DoubleFine is a low risk studio.

We're not talking about >$200M Concord gaas shit level of risks here, nor $3.6B USD to buy Bungie to get your hands on the $766M loss Marathon.

DoubleFine latest projects are probably in the ~200k-600k, it's not even their biggest adventure scopes and they were budgeting bigger scope projects for $400K not even that long ago on kickstarter.

What is the definition of a flop when the games don't need much of an audience to recoup costs? Even SteamDB's estimated userbase, not the highest one, the one at 20.5K owners estimated, at $30 a pop, Steam's cut, you're at $420K, in-line with DoubleFine's kickstarter bigger scope adventures. Not counting Xbox here or the whole spaghetti of knowing how microsoft calculates success with gamepass.

Peoples are looking at DoubleFine with the same lens as some major projects or studios. They're 100% indie DNA. It's completely different budgets and scopes.

How are game budgets so low when the studio (as per OP info) says they got 42 employees wanting the union? So that 42 even excludes anyone in management or non-union roles. Google check says they got about 100 total.

 

[Buggy Loop]

How are game budgets so low when the studio (as per OP info) says they got 42 employees?

They have multiple projects?

It doesn't take the same amount of peoples or budget to make something like Psychonauts 2 vs a game like Keeper or Kiln.

The DoubleFine adventure game started with $400K, $300K for the game, $100K for filming the development.



They landed a lot more money with the kickstarter but still, that's Broken Age, a much longer adventure than Keeper or Kiln and their budget was that low still going into this.

edit - And demigod the little laughing bitch lurking in the background. You're so fucking pathetic dude.

 

[Fbh]

There are more people in the Double Fine union than people playing Klin and Keeper combined on Steam right now

 

[StreetsofBeige]

They have multiple projects?

It doesn't take the same amount of peoples or budget to make something like Psychonauts 2 vs a game like Keeper or Kiln.

The DoubleFine adventure game started with $400K, $300K for the game, $100K for filming the development.



They landed a lot more money with the kickstarter but still, that's Broken Age, a much longer adventure than Keeper or Kiln and their budget was that low still going into this.

edit - And demigod the little laughing bitch lurking in the background. You're so fucking pathetic dude.

I edited my post after you already replied or was in motion typing. DF is actually about 100 people studio according to google check. The 42 are the people who want to unionize. Not all employees can unionize.

So with games with such tiny budgets, are these 100 people volunteers?

 

[SHAKEZ]

Yeah they're goners, this is a desperate move to keep themselves afloat... Or try to.
It won't work.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

You can look at a game like Jumping Flash or Locoroco or Puppeteer and come away thinking they just look fun. You look at games like Kiln and Keeper, and you walk away thinking "what the fuck was that?" Big difference. Double Fine does not know how to entice an audience. I love unique and weird games, and I actively buy them and play them. Double Fine's output is just shit. I have never liked what they produce, and they've somehow managed to narrow the appeal every single time into something that has an audience of... apparently, a couple hundred people in the entire world.

This is not people complaining about unique, artsy games.

I don't mind artsy games at all, but this one just didn't make a lot of sense to me. My wife loves pottery so I told her about this new game and she was interested and it ends up being some weird pottery / competitive multiplayer… who is it for?

 

[Buggy Loop]

I edited my post after you already replied or was in motion typing. DF is actually about 100 people studio according to google check. The 42 are the people who want to unionize. Not all employees can unionize.

So with games with such tiny budgets, are these 100 people volunteers?

I'm not sure what you're not understanding from my comment? 100 peoples is nothing on multiple projects. An indie like game like HeadLander has ~30 peoples just for the core group of art, audio, design, programming, not considering even all the temporary talent in a project like voice actors, music, etc. Not even the "headers" such as the CEO, COO, QA, community managers, etc. And they went out to sell that game $20 and it hasn't made a blip on any radars. These guys have been surviving on pennies I guess, I don't know, but to not fold down all these years, it means they're way efficient on low budgets.

They also had games with much bigger scopes like Psychonauts 2 which reportedly had ~$13.5M budget.
We have no idea what they have in the pipeline. Tim Schafer simply ruled out sequels for now, but there's multiple new original IP projects beyond Keeper at the time of the interview.

 

[dgproject]

I enjoyed keeper, but they really should released something that have mass appeal, perhaps new psychonauts or point and click games like broken age.

 

[pqueue]

i would bet double fine is not even covering their operating costs with the sale of their own games. and now they pull this bullshit?

i know who is getting shut down as a cost savings/focus on core competencies in the next 12 months.

also... FUCK UNIONS. with a rusty, serrated chainsaw.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

I'm not sure what you're not understanding from my comment? 100 peoples is nothing on multiple projects. An indie like game like HeadLander has ~30 peoples just for the core group of art, audio, design, programming, not considering even all the temporary talent in a project like voice actors, music, etc. Not even the "headers" such as the CEO, COO, QA, community managers, etc. And they went out to sell that game $20 and it hasn't made a blip on any radars. These guys have been surviving on pennies I guess, I don't know, but to not fold down all these years, it means they're way efficient on low budgets.

They also had games with much bigger scopes like Psychonauts 2 which reportedly had ~$13.5M budget.
We have no idea what they have in the pipeline. Tim Schafer simply ruled out sequels for now, but there's multiple new original IP projects beyond Keeper at the time of the interview.

First off, Keeper and Kiln cost way more than 600k

Next year, it will be 6 years since Psychonauhts 2. How the hell does it take 6 years for a AA studio to release a platform game? It is pure mismanagement at this point

And Double Fine is located in San Francisco. 100 people times 100k over 6 years= 60mil. And that is just for accounting the employees

 

[wipeout364]

I'm against unions for the simple fact the two times I was in them it was a fucking racket. No help when I needed them, bothered me for not paying dues and in one case I said I'd rather skip paying dues and opt for the cash option for healthcare and buy on the open market using that subsidize (Kaiser Platinum or Gold 90 > everything else) Suddenly I'm written up 2 days in a row for basically nothing and told I'm welcome to debate them during our yearly collective bargaining - which ironically I couldn't participate in because I opted out.

This guy gets it. Unions have their place in trade jobs in large companies, but even there In feel like they spend all their time protecting deadbeats and when someone genuinely needs help they usually suck.

I don't even understand how a union works in place like Doible fine where there are 42 people with vastly different jobs and probably pay scales. Do they pay the HR person the same hourly wage as the artist, does the lead artist get paid the same as a junior artist, Do programmers get the same pay as the narrative writers. It makes my head hurt thinking about that union would even be structured. How does seniority work when the jobs are all different.

 

[demigod]

What is the definition of a flop when the games don't need much of an audience to recoup costs? Even SteamDB's estimated userbase, not the highest one, the one at 20.5K owners estimated, at $30 a pop, Steam's cut, you're at $420K, in-line with DoubleFine's kickstarter bigger scope adventures. Not counting Xbox here or the whole spaghetti of knowing how microsoft calculates success with gamepass.

Peoples are looking at DoubleFine with the same lens as some major projects or studios. They're 100% indie DNA. It's completely different budgets and scopes.

You think 20.5k people bought Keeper, pure delusional.

 

[EviLore]

RIP

 

[PeteBull]

After their last terrible failed game i expect most ppl in the studio already predicting massive layoffs or even studio's clousure, so unionizing wont change a thing
They are based in san fransico(aka very high salaries compared to devteams based in areas cheap to live) so this shitty product wont do anything sales wise to keep them afloat:

 

[NeverYouMind]

I need less arthouse projects and more injecting arthouse scenarios into an established OG genre release with a strong narrative from them. They are very good at story telling and they just need a game that is fun to play between story beats.

 

[evanft]

I'm shocked they're still open.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Seems like they're giving MS a perfect opportunity to shut down the entire studio.

 

[Sintoid]

I'll be rude... but Microsoft closed Tango Gameworks and kept open this shit

 

[StueyDuck]

Well we all know how this goes...