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Down syndrome in Iceland is disappearing due to abortions

When you pretend to give a shit about Down's Syndrome just so you can spout more stupidity about your views on abortion. Another thing, as someone with a family member with a disability I find some of the hostility in this thread towards people with Down's Syndrome absolutely disgusting.
 

M3d10n

Member
I'm ok to do it for Down Syndrome since your child is going to be in trouble and unable to take care of himself. People don't deserve a life of suffering. My gripe is that if we start to normalize this, how far are we going to go with advances in genetic testing.

The article makes it seem like a downs pregnancy often coincides with a other risk factors.
 
lol, NEVER did I say "everyone who has an abortion...." this is EXACTLY like trump supporters saying "so they'[re calling ALL of us racist"

people have abortions for an infinite number of reasons. and cover an infinite degrees of responsibility across the spectrum..


called? of course not. don't be daft. still doesn't mean that there aren't people who do it for incredibly stupid or irresponsible reasons.



I swear to god, reading is fundamental. no I do not "denigrate all people" etc etc. not even close. and nowhere have I ever said that, so I don't know how you keep reading it. sorry you are so worked up about this but you are reading into shit I never typed.

Not worked up at all. You're the one pounding curses into the keyboard. Relax, lol.

So, these were your words in the context of the thread:
Anyone choosing to terminate a pregnancy because of the inconvenience to them or their family isn't any less of a selfish prick than if the child had downs or they just didn't want children.

So if someone terminates a pregnancy due to medical issues in the fetus that they believe would be extremely disruptive/inconvenient to their lives they are selfish pricks, correct?

I take issue with that as someone who's wife would indeed get an abortion for that reason. So I wanted to dive into where and how you're coming to that conclusion. Cause on one hand you claim to support abortions then turn around and criticize the manner in which people decide to implement it. Which is odd to me.
 

shandy706

Member
It would be selfish to keep a baby that you know has downs, the kid will never have a normal life. Abortion really is best for everyone involved in this situation.

I have a family member with Down syndrome. She's one of the sweetest, and happiest people I know.

Her parents are in for the long run (she is 9) and love her like crazy.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
So if someone terminates a pregnancy due to medical issues in the fetus that they believe would be extremely disruptive/inconvenient to their lives they are selfish pricks, correct?

I take issue with that as someone who's wife would indeed get an abortion for that reason. So I wanted to dive into where and how you're coming to that conclusion. Cause on one hand you claim to support abortions then turn around and criticize the manner in which people decide to implement it. Which is odd to me.

again, please read my original post. my nephew has downs. they did not know until he was born.. but I think, and am pretty sure my brother and his family feel, that the world would be a worse place without him in it. to me personally, and yes I have an emotional investment in it, the thought of someone terminating him because of the impact to their life, is hard to imagine. I know, not 1:1, and far from it... but again, opinions...

ultimately it's none of my damn business, and if that hasn't been implied by me saying I am 100% pro-choice.. then I'll state it. It's none of my damn business. but people ARE entitled to their opinions. I don't know you or your SO.. and again, none of my damn business. I just know my life and what my nephew means to me, in light of the topic at hand.
 

droggg

Member
It would be selfish to keep a baby that you know has downs, the kid will never have a normal life. Abortion really is best for everyone involved in this situation.

I am blown away by some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread, just wow....
 

mcarlie

Banned
They haven't eradicated Down's syndrome, they have just clearly stated that the lives of these children have less worth than the rest of ours.
 
Good. If we can detect things like that in time, the parents should be able to make the choice. If they want to abort, that is OK. If they don't, that is also OK. It is their choice, and theirs alone.

They haven't eradicated Down's syndrome, they have just clearly stated that the lives of these children have less worth than the rest of ours.
Bullshit. Having to take care of a child with a major disability is a huge burden to carry. You don't get to say people are in the wrong for not feeling up to that. This is not an easy choice for people. It is also not judgement on the value of a life.
 

Pau

Member
No, what's unthinkably barbaric is forcing women to give birth.
Let's see how many times I'm gonna have to quote this.

This is because of the one-child policy and its remnants, and a deeply misogynistic culture.

The solution is to address those problems and fix them, not restrict abortions.
And also because of how fucked up the adoption system is. Many families who want girls are not able to adopt them.
 

Prez

Member
It would be selfish to keep a baby that you know has downs, the kid will never have a normal life. Abortion really is best for everyone involved in this situation.

You've probably never even met a person with Down's, have you? I'd suggest you volunteer at a Special Olympics event, it's great fun and would change your opinion.
 
Forgive me for asking but is it ever going to be possible to completely get rid of down syndrome? A close possibility or is it still far off?

Not really, it's a random event and not something normally associated with a genetic predisposition. It's not like something like type 1 diabetes or Huntington's disease where gene therapy or something like Crispr could eliminate, and it happens during meiosis, at some point in the first 30 - 48 hours of pregnancy (or fertilization).

--

Down syndrome can't be eradicated (at least with how we understand the condition today). It not that Iceland has eradicated down syndrome (as the quote in the OP suggests), it's that fetuses that have down syndrome are terminated before they're carried to term.
 
It would be selfish to keep a baby that you know has downs, the kid will never have a normal life. Abortion really is best for everyone involved in this situation.

This is idiotic too.

Framing it as mercy is not a moral framing.

The correct framing is that it is a choice that must be respected regardless of intent because the alternative of forced birth is the immoral act.
 
Good. If we can detect things like that in time, the parents should be able to make the choice. If they want to abort, that is OK. If they don't, that is also OK. It is their choice, and theirs alone.


Bullshit. Having to take care of a child with a major disability is a huge burden to carry. You don't get to say people are in the wrong for not feeling up to that. This is not an easy choice for people. It is also not judgement on the value of a life.

Not burden, responsibility. We need to frame it so as to not inflict condemnation or blame on those born with disabilities.
 

Madame M

Banned
They haven't eradicated Down's syndrome, they have just clearly stated that the lives of these children have less worth than the rest of ours.

You use they as if Iceland is making the decision as a country. They don't. It's the mothers making the choice. For some reason it's getting a lot of attention in a country of like 300,000 people. How many cases of Downs pregnancies happens every year in a country of 300,000 in the first place?
 

mcarlie

Banned
Bullshit. Having to take care of a child with a major disability is a huge burden to carry. You don't get to say people are in the wrong for not feeling up to that. This is not an easy choice for people. It is also not judgement on the value of a life.

I don't see any argument here. You have asserted that I "don't have the right to say" for whatever reason and that "it's not a judgement on the life" without actually giving any argument for either one of these assertions.

Clearly it's a judgement on the value of their life if the life is considered to be of so little value that it's terminated. If anything you've argued against yourself by admitting that the trouble involved in taking care of people with Down's syndrome is enough to justify their premature death.

You use they as if Iceland is making the decision as a country. They don't. It's the mothers making the choice. For some reason it's getting a lot of attention in a country of like 600,000 people. How many cases of Downs pregnancies happens every year in a country of 600,000 in the first place?

The statement applies both to their society and to the individuals involved.
 
Not burden, responsibility. We need to frame it so as to not inflict condemnation or blame on those born with disabilities.
You're right, that would be a better description.

I don't see any argument here. You have asserted that I "don't have the right to say" for whatever reason and that "it's not a judgement on the life" without actually giving any argument for either one of these assertions.

Clearly it's a judgement on the value of their life if the life is considered to be of so little value that it's terminated.
Yes, we don't get a say in this, because it is not our choice. It is the choice of the parents and has nothing to do with any of us. Telling them they do not value the life of their unborn baby is a terrible thing to say. Abortion is not an easy choice. People don't make that decision lightly.
 
I mean many of these stories get written to paint those seeking abortions in these cases as immoral and cruel and to encourage over zealous pro choicers to shit on people with disabilities so that the movement looks immoral as well.

Stop playing into it
 

darscot

Member
I'm sure Iceland is not alone in this. Canada tests for this as well especially in high risk cases. I have no idea what the percentage is but I am sure some people go the abortion route.

I will add I am completely fine with this and feel every women has the right to choose. Raising a child is hard enough a child with a disability takes a very special person. I am pretty sure my wife would choose not to have a child with Downs.
 

mcarlie

Banned
Yes, we don't get a say in this, because it is not our choice. It is the choice of the parents and has nothing to do with any of us.
It is their choice given the law of the country, but what is interesting to me is the moral justification, which you haven't provided.

Telling them they do not value the life of their unborn baby is a terrible thing to say. Abortion is not an easy choice. People don't make that decision lightly.

Whether or not it is terrible is irrelevant considering that it is also true.
 

Yeoman

Member
Well I mean you don't force women to stay pregnant for any reason.

That's the be all end all.
If a woman is 1 week away from giving birth but wants an abortion should they be allowed it?
I'm aware that it's a situation on the extreme end of the scale but I'm curious as to your feelings on it.
 

eso76

Member
The way it's worded makes it sound like down syndrome is a contagious disease that can be eradicated..

On our second pregnancy, we did all the screening we could.
Actually third pregnancy, the second was terminated by amniocentesis itself. We knew there were risks involved, still went for it.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
It's immoral knowingly bringing a person with Down syndrome into this world.

what the fuck!?!?!????? this is the most horrible thing I have read on GAF today, and we have like 5 threads on the front page about racism............ wtf????
 

Aske

Member
Let the parents decide for themselves if they decide they want and can take care of a child with Down Syndrome, and whatever their choice, it's theirs.

In this case, I think it's a good thing that these tests are available.
I have an adoptive brother who is 24 years old. But he has the mental capacity of a 2 or 3 year old. My parents did not 'sign up' for a special needs child, but they got one 'on accident'.
My brother does not have Down Syndrome, but he lives in a home with others who all have it.

If you ever feel unloved, go to a home where people with Down Syndrome live.
Every time I visit my brother, I'm getting at least a dozen hugs by each of them. Mental disability is called 'limited' here.
I see them dancing along the music with all their love and enthusiasm and not a shred of worry about how they might look.
And I'm awkwardly standing to the side line having serious doubts about who is the real 'limited' one in the room.
Every year on my brother's birthday, they each write a speech to tell him what they like about him, and how much they love him.
Some write it down, some try to memorize it, some just wing it. But it's all heartfelt in a way that I wish I could express myself.

That are some of the upsides of Down.

It's possible for someone with the Down Syndrome to have a normal to high IQ, but this is rare. Most of them are not able to live independently.
For their entire lives, they will need help. My brother and some of the people he lives with have simple jobs. Spikes in boxes. Wrapping things up. Simple farm work. Simple householding and cleaning.
My brother loves his packing job because the trucks come pick up all the boxes when the work is done and he loves trucks. He'll never be able to drive one.

There's always a caretaker in the house. They need help with medicine, bathing, dressing and getting ready for going to work if they can do any.
They are in their mid-twenties and none of them can go out unsupervised, because they do not have the mental capability to stay out of harms way in traffic, and to make it back home.
Some of them can read and write a bit and some can count a bit, but sorting out taxes? Never.

Their immune system isn't as strong as 'normal' people's.
Back in spring, one of the girls was so ill they thought she wouldn't live to see Summer. She miraculously recovered and seems to be doing well. For now.
Nearly half of people with Down Syndrome have heart defects and need multiple surgeries in their life. Thyroid gland related issues are common.
They are all motivated to exercise as much as possible, and treats are kept to a minimum because they put on weight easily.

People with down syndrome do not live as long as people without it. And when they get old, they have a high risk to develop dementia.

Homes aren't perfect. You can search the world for the best one and place your child there. It still won't be up to your standards.
I've seen my parents try. First just for the weekends. Since a few years, permanently.
There's been incidents. People gotten hurt. Things went missing. Innocents accused.
A friend of the family went through a lot to get their daughter in a home. But it didn't work out, and she couldn't stay there. She's in her mid 30s and is living with her parents again. Her parents are getting old and their daughter needs a lot of care.
Sometimes, both need to work on the same day, and there is no other choice but locking up their daughter in a padded playroom and hoping she'll be fine for the hours they're gone.

In contrast with my brother, I was the smartest kid in my class. Teachers told my parents "She's gonna make it far in life!"
When I was around 16, I applied for a school abroad. It was a school held in high regard and I was accepted.
Overjoyed, I showed my mother. "But that's too far away. If you study there, you'll want to live there. Then who will take care of your brother when we are too old?"

My brother brags about me a lot to his housemates. Because I can read and write and because I can drive a car. Even though I barely reach 5 feet and he's much taller than me, he looks up to me.
He comes back from his work and he gives me a music box wrapped in toilet paper, something he has stolen but he doesn't understand that it's wrong.
At times when I visit, he says to me, in his very limited vocabulary, that he missed me, those are the times I think "It's okay, it's fine. It's worth it that I gave up my dreams to take care of you because you can't help how you are."

But a selfish part of myself can't help to think how my life could have been. If.

Quoting this whole post, because it's amazing; and really nails the complexity of this issue. Thank you for sharing.


I'm thoroughly pro abortion (read about it - it's rare that women regret making that choice when it's of their own volition, and they tend to be more psychologically and physically healthy long term than women who have a child they didn't want), so I feel that no one should be shamed for choosing to abort a fetus if they learn it will be a greater emotional and financial burden than they were prepared for; regardless of how many chromosomes it has.
 

Zoe

Member
This sounds pretty awesome. An embryo is just a cell. We/they are not murdering a life because it's not born the way we want it.

Scientists make embryos in the lab ALL THE TIME and they are genetically modified that they stop growing and die after a few days. It's not like the scientists are committing murder daily.

People connect these things to a soul and whatnot and that's where things get tricky.

Of course people connect souls to the babies they're expecting. They wouldn't reach the point of getting these screenings if they didn't care.
 

JABEE

Member
It's immoral knowingly bringing a person with Down syndrome into this world.

This is pretty ridiculous.

I don't understand why saying this kind of "parasite","edgy" stuff is cool.

There is a difference between saying abortion is a woman's choice and saying women who choose to have babies with down syndrome are immoral.

This is a social issue that will grow worse when self-selection from testing is implemented. The people who have down syndrome and the parents of people raising children will be even more marginalized because it's not posh to carry children with DS to term.

There is no way to stop improvements in science. This will continue to progress. Women have the right and autonomy over their own bodies to have any surgery they wish. They can't be forced to carry a baby to term, but I feel sometimes people are lashing out in ways that hurt real people. I understand people are trying to be funny, but if you aren't trying to be funny or flippantly funny, it's pretty fucked up.
 
It is their choice given the law of the country, but what is interesting to me is the moral justification, which you haven't provided.

Whether or not it is terrible is irrelevant considering that it is also true.
It should be their choice anywhere in the world, but sadly not every country allows it yet. Hopefully that changes.

Abortion is always a choice you should have. If you get pregnant and do not want a child for whatever reason, that is up to you.

Now when you get pregnant and you know that the kid will require care for the rest of their lives, then it is up to the parents to decide if they want that responsibility and think they can do it. If they can, that is wonderful. I greatly respect parents who are there day in, day out, for their whole lives to raise someone with a disability, and we as a society should support them through our governments by providing them with the care they need.

But if you don't, that is also OK and there should be no judgement about it, which is something you are doing and I think is very unfair.
 

Airola

Member
I mean, is she wrong?
An unwanted life form growing inside of you, feeding off of your nutrients. Yeah that sounds like a parasite to me lol

"parasites," "unwanted life form" ....

The amount of dehumanization people do to be ok with ending life is staggering.


I just really wish people would stop going through these hoops and just admit they are ok with ending life in certain situations.


I can see why someone would abort, but proclaiming that these happy people already alive would have been better of aborted? What the hell.

This too.

And I know for a fact that there are lots of loving people who are glad to help people with down syndrome and their parents. My mom used to help a group of down syndrome people in her free time and my stepsister works with kids with serious autism. I once got to see one of the kids with her and I felt bad at how annoying I thought that kid was at times (she couldn't talk and mostly rubbed her ear and yelled loud noises), but the way my stepsister handled her was absolutely heartwarming. And as I learned how the autist girl actually was able to communicate and understood the world around her in her own way I understood how even people with such extreme conditions can bring a lot to this world. Bless their hearts.
 

driggonny

Banned
I don't see how this is any worse than aborting a fetus simply because you didn't want it in the first place.

I honestly can't say I see the choice as either good or bad... it's just a choice as any other abortion.
 
This is pretty ridiculous.

I don't understand why saying this kind of "parasite","edgy" stuff is cool.

There is a difference between saying abortion is a woman's choice and saying women who choose to have babies with down syndrome are immoral.

This is a social issue that will grow worse when self-selection from testing is implemented. The people who have down syndrome and the parents of people raising children will be even more marginalized because it's not posh to carry children with DS to term.

There is no way to stop improvements in science. This will continue to progress. Women have the right and autonomy over their own bodies to have any surgery they wish. They can't be forced to carry a baby to term, but I feel sometimes people are lashing out in ways that hurt real people. I understand people are trying to be funny, but if you aren't trying to be funny or flippantly funny, it's pretty fucked up.

Agree 100% No matter what support for people in these situations is atrocious and should be addressed with the same passion we address people's rights to choose.
 
It's immoral knowingly bringing a person with Down syndrome into this world.

The fuck am I reading in this thread, not just this particular comment as there are quite a few ignorant, uneducated downright nasty posts.

Trump threads are fucking better than this.

Edit, and the post above me. Fucking hell, its you guys that are the fucking monster's!
 
Having recently gone through pregnancy and birth, 'parasite' seems a pretty apt description of the fetus in the womb.

Down syndrome was one of the things that was looked for as part of the screening. We had a scare following the first ultrasound but a followup suggested it was a false alarm; if not we would have had an amniocentesis and following that an abortion if the test wasn't all clear.
 
Let the parents decide for themselves if they decide they want and can take care of a child with Down Syndrome, and whatever their choice, it's theirs.

In this case, I think it's a good thing that these tests are available.
I have an adoptive brother who is 24 years old. But he has the mental capacity of a 2 or 3 year old. My parents did not 'sign up' for a special needs child, but they got one 'on accident'.
My brother does not have Down Syndrome, but he lives in a home with others who all have it.

If you ever feel unloved, go to a home where people with Down Syndrome live.
Every time I visit my brother, I'm getting at least a dozen hugs by each of them. Mental disability is called 'limited' here.
I see them dancing along the music with all their love and enthusiasm and not a shred of worry about how they might look.
And I'm awkwardly standing to the side line having serious doubts about who is the real 'limited' one in the room.
Every year on my brother's birthday, they each write a speech to tell him what they like about him, and how much they love him.
Some write it down, some try to memorize it, some just wing it. But it's all heartfelt in a way that I wish I could express myself.

That are some of the upsides of Down.

It's possible for someone with the Down Syndrome to have a normal to high IQ, but this is rare. Most of them are not able to live independently.
For their entire lives, they will need help. My brother and some of the people he lives with have simple jobs. Spikes in boxes. Wrapping things up. Simple farm work. Simple householding and cleaning.
My brother loves his packing job because the trucks come pick up all the boxes when the work is done and he loves trucks. He'll never be able to drive one.

There's always a caretaker in the house. They need help with medicine, bathing, dressing and getting ready for going to work if they can do any.
They are in their mid-twenties and none of them can go out unsupervised, because they do not have the mental capability to stay out of harms way in traffic, and to make it back home.
Some of them can read and write a bit and some can count a bit, but sorting out taxes? Never.

Their immune system isn't as strong as 'normal' people's.
Back in spring, one of the girls was so ill they thought she wouldn't live to see Summer. She miraculously recovered and seems to be doing well. For now.
Nearly half of people with Down Syndrome have heart defects and need multiple surgeries in their life. Thyroid gland related issues are common.
They are all motivated to exercise as much as possible, and treats are kept to a minimum because they put on weight easily.

People with down syndrome do not live as long as people without it. And when they get old, they have a high risk to develop dementia.

Homes aren't perfect. You can search the world for the best one and place your child there. It still won't be up to your standards.
I've seen my parents try. First just for the weekends. Since a few years, permanently.
There's been incidents. People gotten hurt. Things went missing. Innocents accused.
A friend of the family went through a lot to get their daughter in a home. But it didn't work out, and she couldn't stay there. She's in her mid 30s and is living with her parents again. Her parents are getting old and their daughter needs a lot of care.
Sometimes, both need to work on the same day, and there is no other choice but locking up their daughter in a padded playroom and hoping she'll be fine for the hours they're gone.

In contrast with my brother, I was the smartest kid in my class. Teachers told my parents "She's gonna make it far in life!"
When I was around 16, I applied for a school abroad. It was a school held in high regard and I was accepted.
Overjoyed, I showed my mother. "But that's too far away. If you study there, you'll want to live there. Then who will take care of your brother when we are too old?"

My brother brags about me a lot to his housemates. Because I can read and write and because I can drive a car. Even though I barely reach 5 feet and he's much taller than me, he looks up to me.
He comes back from his work and he gives me a music box wrapped in toilet paper, something he has stolen but he doesn't understand that it's wrong.
At times when I visit, he says to me, in his very limited vocabulary, that he missed me, those are the times I think "It's okay, it's fine. It's worth it that I gave up my dreams to take care of you because you can't help how you are."

But a selfish part of myself can't help to think how my life could have been. If.

You're an incredible person, if you were in my life I'd go to bat for you for just about anything.
 

bitbydeath

Gold Member
The fuck am I reading in this thread, not just this particular comment as there are quite a few ignorant, uneducated downright nasty posts.

Trump threads are fucking better than this.

Edit, and the post above me. Fucking hell, its you guys that are the fucking monster's!

What if there is a chance that upon terminating it that it could be born into a different body?

You're robbing it of its chances of a proper functioning meat suit.
 
I've met a number of people with Down's in my life, I know firsthand that they can live happy lives, and that they and their families face unique challenges. I can't and won't judge women for making informed choices in such a personal matter.


As for Ted Cruz, he is a smug, sanctimonious shit-eater who would gladly rob people with Down's and their families of their last cent so his donors could have it, he can kiss my ass.
 

Airola

Member
what the fuck!?!?!????? this is the most horrible thing I have read on GAF today, and we have like 5 threads on the front page about racism............ wtf????

Yeah, it's weird that conservatives are referred to as nazis every now and then, but then there is this issue where the more liberal people actually hold views about this issue that fall closer to nazism than the conservative view.

I mean, it's quite odd how the conservatives are actually very much against this type of "eugenics" and would think that it's better for a person to be born disabled instead of not being born at all, whereas the liberal stance for some is that it's better to terminate the fetus as soon as possible to completely avoid the disabled person to be born. In this case the nazis would've approved the liberal stance instead of the conservative stance.

#Godwin'sLaw
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
I have a family member with Down syndrome. She's one of the sweetest, and happiest people I know.

Her parents are in for the long run (she is 9) and love her like crazy.
What is your point? You could say the same thing about any abortion.

1) "I aborted my pregnancy because I wasn't ready to be a parent."
2) "My sister wasn't ready either, she was struggling financially, was still in school, blah blah and now her daughter is her most important treasure and she loves her like crazy."

1) "I aborted my pregnancy because I was raped."
2) "My sister-in-law was raped by her crazy ex, and she almost aborted, but she decided to keep the child and now her ten-year-old son is the sweetest little boy and makes her happier than she's ever been, she loves him like crazy."

1) "I aborted my pregnancy because ____"
2) "<Woman x> didn't abort, and her child is great and she's happy and blah blah blah"

Sorry, I get that there are a few sketchy comments about people with Down's Syndrome children in this thread, but the flipside of trying to shame people for their own parental choice by using these children as a shield is really irritating.

Yeah, it's weird that conservatives are referred to as nazis every now and then, but then there is this issue where the more liberal people actually hold views about this issue that fall closer to nazism than the conservative view.

I mean, it's quite odd how the conservatives are actually very much against this type of "eugenics" and would think that it's better for a person to be born disabled instead of being not born at all, whereas the liberal stance for some is that it's better to terminate the fetus as soon as possible to completely avoid the disabled person to be born. In this case the nazis would've approved the liberal stance instead of the conservative stance.

#Godwin'sLaw
Puh-fucking-lease...
 
I'm not trying to pick a fight here but how does that address what I said? I'm not advocating for limiting the right to choose in any way. I'm pro-choice.

Then I'm not sure that your initial reply to me addressed what I said because I was speaking to pro choice folks who were, meaning well or not, arguing for abortions in a manner that was unnecessarily stigmatizing disability.

So you're reply talking the reverse had nothing to do with my statement
 
It's immoral knowingly bringing a person with Down syndrome into this world.

No

This is bullshit.


If a woman is 1 week away from giving birth but wants an abortion should they be allowed it?
I'm aware that it's a situation on the extreme end of the scale but I'm curious as to your feelings on it.

Yep.

My views are in line with Canadian law. Legal till birth... good luck finding a doctor willing to do it though.
 
I think the complication comes from the question of choice

Abortion is there to allow women to terminate an unwanted pregnancy - maybe they aren't ready for a child, there was a failure of contraception.

But in these cases with screening, I would assume most/all of the women wanted the pregnancy (or they would have had an abortion already). So the question of choice is no longer 'do you want a child' - it's 'do you want *this* child'

I don't know how I feel about this. Luckily both of our children were born healthy but I have a cousin with a severe disability from birth. What about choosing because you screen and find out it's a girl but you already have girls and really want a boy? At what point should choice be limited?

I think we should be able to abort a child for any reason

When you have stuff like how Chinese parents would not want to keep girl babies after they are born that is a societal problem, not one with abortion (I don't think Chinese parents were aborting baby girls, more like ditching them after birth, but the point still stands)

On the individual level any reason is fine
 
When you pretend to give a shit about Down's Syndrome just so you can spout more stupidity about your views on abortion. Another thing, as someone with a family member with a disability I find some of the hostility in this thread towards people with Down's Syndrome absolutely disgusting.

I feel the same.

There is a gentleman at my church with Down's Syndrome who plays a bongo on the band. He's not on beat at all and the music drowns him out, but he's happy AF on stage, and can't nobody tell him otherwise that it is a joy to be alive, and he is blessed.


Quite a range of handicapped individuals on the spectrum who have impacted my life. Autistism palsy...my co-workwr would lose his cool if he knew people celebrated this as he has to schedule around his special needs son.

The tone of this topic was set in a way as to give Cruz the finger, but it more so strikes me as abelist. When you seek to eliminate something genetic via controlling human births, you are practicing eugenics.
 
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