Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
- Start date
- Status
NeonZ
Member
Movement during a battle in order to set up attacks could be described as "attack". Like I said, there's a panel outright showing Vegeta flying in Blue even before throwing a punch when Goku explains what he's doing. So, this is not even debatable.
Nah. Goku using basic SSJ against Hit in the manga was part of him conserving energy too, so it also consumes more energy than that at least, not only God. And the whole strategy of waiting for the exact right moment before using it only has any meaning if the consumption is significant. Goku's explanation about Vegeta's technique against Black also confirms that SSJ Blue's power is bigger right after transforming, which means a pretty significant energy drain.
It also explains why Vegeta seemingly got such a big power boost out of using it in bursts. If the energy consumption were irrelevant they wouldn't gan much power of out it, but that's clearly not the case.
The point of Super Saiyan God is that it avoids the energy drain from staying in the form. Note that Vegeta drops Super Saiyan God against merged Zamasu once Zamasu just moves so fast he can't even react in God to switch to Blue.
We do see Black facing SSJ Vegeta in base and blocking his attacks before transforming though. Then, he transforms and doesn't do any better and is even getting beaten up. Until he suddenly stops Vegeta's blasts with a barrier, and only then Vegeta says that he can see how Trunks had trouble and finally goes Blue. Meanwhile Trunks is on the sidelines saying that something is wrong and the next chapter it's outright stated Black wanted to be wounded.
Like I said, it's the only battle where there isn't an actual direct explanation in the manga about the overall match up, but there are plenty of comments about it, just not a straight explanation about how everything worked.
Chaotic-Strike
Banned
I can't even really blame the click bait when they get around double the amount of views than a regular screenshot would.
The youtube population really does like their recolored SSJ4s.
The youtube population really does like their recolored SSJ4s.
C'mon share the worst with us
Icyflamez96
Member
It's an inferior form to blue/rose scaling wise, but if Vegeta trained to get stronger in base, he would be stronger in SSG, which is what I mean when I say he probably got stronger in SSG.
That's not my point. You guys are saying "small minority". I'm not arguing that whether or not it is just a minority or not. I may not have made it clear before, but I'm specifically talking about the Goku Black saga manga version anyway, which is where I feel like I've seen a LOT of love for that over the anime version. Much more so with any of the other arcs. I think it's pretty clearly not just a "small minority" and that comment to me just comes off as a way to spite the idea of liking the manga over the anime and not much more.
I've also seen a couple polls or in the past, and in one, the manga was winning, and in another, the anime was winning but it was really close.
Both polls didn't even have a "I haven't read the manga option" which means that there were probably some votes for the anime from people that haven't even read the manga anyway. So it's more likely that the votes were skewed toward the anime, considering pretty much everybody involved has watched the anime but a lot less have watched the anime AND kept up with the manga. And virtually no one is JUST reading the manga.
RareFantasy64
Member
I think once we see
Frieza in action and what he offers the time
they'd prefer Buu being on the team
Lamel
Banned
DB YouTube thumbnails are like the 2017 version of this:
Man this pic goes way back but who came up with it?
Icyflamez96
Member
I see the community already turning around on it and I'm pretty sure it'll keep going that way unless something about it is handled terribly.
The Silver
Member
I feel the same, Frieza is far more interesting as a character and adds a fun dynamic to the group as the resident evil asshole.
Even so Super Saiyan God Vegeta is inferior to Black Rose, which is why he laughed at Vegeta when he revealed it.
From my casual observation the manga was considered better than the anime until around the middle of the Champa Saga. It was then when you saw an almost even split. Then Chapter 13 happened and it became somewhat popular to hate on the manga. The Future Trunks wasn't considered really inferior until Zamasu got triggered from seeing Godtube, the mystery of Black was an info dump, and Manga Black, you know that story.
Also, most online fans have read the manga. And I have seen polls where the anime beats the manga in a landslide.
Vegeta switching still should drain energy since that is the weakness of Blue in the manga and the fact it still has this crazy energy issue after all this time. And how wouldn't Black be able to blitz Vegeta before he switch since he's using a lesser form with inferior reflexes.
What I mean is is why is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan still such a drain after all this time with the form?
That battle makes no sense no matter how you slice it. Black didn't even know where Future Zamasu was so why would he try to get hurt if his healer wasn't around? And Black shouldn't have bother to transform period.
RocknRola
Member
DB YouTube thumbnails are like the 2017 version of this:
I remember seeing this as a kid and going nuts over it! "SOOO COOOLL!!"
Now it's more like....eeewww. Please don't.
Icyflamez96
Member
Most of the appeal for me, and probably a lot of other people when it comes to forms like SSJ3 or SSJ4 is that - Goku is this nice guy that people can relate to and who people are attached to, who spends his life fighting these savage monsters who are totally unrelatable, mean, pure evil, ect... And it's cool to see Goku basically become a savage beast in his own right, but yet still be the nice guy that people are attached to and find relatable and likable. Goku was always this relatively normal, relatively non-intimidating looking dude (most of the time) when compared to these monstrosities he would go against, because the evil side just so happened to have a LOT of these intimidating looking goons. But with SSJ3 and SSJ4, now the bad guys have an intimidating looking monstrosity of their own to deal with.
Not that I think those fanart forms are good, but yeah.
Not that I think those fanart forms are good, but yeah.
It's because
Buu was thrown out after months of promotion using a tired gag and Freeza is extremely played out now. Ajay actually wrote a good response to this whole thing and I pretty much agree with it: https://twitter.com/AnimeAjay/status/863444544339292160
I hope he gets permanently killed off this time though.
roflwaffles
Member
I think it was a same, if not similar, feeling during the Future Trunks arc. By the end of their first travel into the future, I was ready to say that it was the best arc since Frieza/Saiyan arc in the series and one of the best that DB has ever been. Fast forward like 3-4 episodes later, the arc went off the rails and and by the finale, the show had wasted all of the goodwill I had built up for it. There was still 3-4 good episodes in that arc after they traveled back from the future, but when its bad, its astonishingly bad.
TeamLeftMatch
Member
My problem is that Buu had to get kicked, again. Freeza had his own arc, move on to showing off other character. If they didn't promote buu in any way, then having Freeza come in wouldn't be so bad.
Edit:
Thinking about it, there's a chance that Freeza would get elemenated before the tournament by killing. Form the previous arcs Toei like showing the hero's with a handicap so maybe we get a situation with only 9 warriors.
Icyflamez96
Member
To what extent? It was inferior, but It was also just as strong as it needed to be for his larger strategy to work. Anyway, Black was laughing that the SSG form was inferior to SSB. Not sensing Vegeta's power and stating that the power in his SSG form was inferior to his own current SSR form.
Most online fans have definitely not read the manga, but we can't check that. I think it's pretty clear that's the case though.
Ajay reads like a mountain of salt. It's actually kind of pathetic.
And the larger strategy makes little sense.
How can you be sure that they never read it?
Icyflamez96
Member
How are people still using "fanfiction" as a detractor for Super. I mean, state your reasons, but "fanfiction" is a really weird criticism at this point unless you still knock various other elements form Super being fanfictiony too. But if you do, it's like why are you even still watching the show lol.
My counter argument to that is, this is the only time Frieza being brought back actually has with it a genuinely interesting proposition. So I think it's fine.
And_Gignac
Member
Freeza
TeamLeftMatch
Member
Pretty much. What is a fanfic idea? Anything you don't like.
Icyflamez96
Member
I mean, it does. You're going to have to back that up with something or else it's gonna go nowhere lol.
I think how it's stated in the manga makes perfect sense.
Because I feel like most people say they haven't when brought up.
Also, on reddit, the manga discussion threads always have WAY less comments than the anime discussion threads, so I apply that general ratio to everything.
On my phone and I already wrote why it doesn't make sense.
So, basically nothing.
Not the same people taking polls unless you have some data.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Dragon Ball is full of dumb and bad ideas done well. All that matters here is if this is executed well. I don't think there is any reason to write this off without seeing any of it.
One thing that turned me around on this is that it actually retroactively gives F some importance.
I still maintain that as long as this is executed well people will come around, even those who say they don't care if it's done well.
One thing that turned me around on this is that it actually retroactively gives F some importance.
I still maintain that as long as this is executed well people will come around, even those who say they don't care if it's done well.
Whose to say anything is a dumb or bad idea? An idea is just an idea.
Icyflamez96
Member
And I already rebutted? Address my latest point and we can go somewhere, because I already addressed yours. You just stopped in your tracks out of nowhere for some reason saying "it doesn't make sense" with no further elaboration. What am I supposed to do with that?
It's a safer assumption to make than why one would assume that most online fans have read it. There being much less discussion about the manga on the internet is a pretty good indicator of how many people on the internet are actually reading it.
I'm not sure what you're saying with the last line.
As I said I explained it. Super Saiyan God is inferior and Black should've have been able to blitz Vegeta before he could switch since Super Saiyan God is inferior to Rose in every way. Nothing in the manga indicates that Super Saiyan God Vegeta was near Black and you only need a small power advantage to stomp.
What I'm saying that people who vote most likely read the manga, otherwise they probably wouldn't bother casting a vote.
And I have to end it here because I don't like typing a lot on my phone. We can pick up later if you want.
Hellwarden
Member
I'm hyped for tonight's episode, but it's gonna have a hard time living up to today's episode of Attack on Titan.
Just...
Whew.
Just...
Whew.
Icyflamez96
Member
And I already rebutted to that. I'll just repost my post.
The bolded is an important point. The former point I was making about it being "as strong as it needed to be" meant that it could have been slightly weaker than SSR, but still strong enough to keep up and get close to unleash Blue attacks on him.
I've seen people literally post comments in poll threads saying they voted for one because they haven't experienced the other. That's why you're always supposed to have a "haven't experienced both" option to weed most of that out.
By Black's reaction to seeing Super Saiyan God, it wasn't close. And it still takes precious seconds to switch.
Icyflamez96
Member
No, his reaction was "SSG? Why are you coming at me with a form inferior than your other one?!"
Also, seconds? He was doing it so fast that Black didn't even realize what was going on at first.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Characters that shouldn't come back but do anyways say it aint so.
Which makes little sense and if Super Saiyan God was closed to Black he would know Vegeta would kick his butt if he went Blue. He never gave any indication of that.
Astral Dog
Member
Im reading the Black arc on the manga right now And it explains alot of stuff:O
The relationship between the Kaios and GoDs, Black getting stronger,GodTube,Whis getting information about Zamasu8,Kibito and Super Saiyan Rose so far.
Goku wanting to kill Black becayse of Trunks,Vegeta arriving at the future and trashing Black is kind of mindbliwing.
The relationship between the Kaios and GoDs, Black getting stronger,GodTube,Whis getting information about Zamasu8,Kibito and Super Saiyan Rose so far.
Goku wanting to kill Black becayse of Trunks,Vegeta arriving at the future and trashing Black is kind of mindbliwing.
Exactly. When he fused with Uub in GT: zero fucks given.
Chaotic-Strike
Banned
It's almost like it's Dragon Ball.
Icyflamez96
Member
He didn't seem to be making a relationship between his own power and Vegeta's power in SSG. He just saw "SSG? Whatever. No transformation can match my power!" and ignored anything else out of blind arrogance, then got wreck'd.
Also, another thing. Even if Vegeta's form was slightly stronger than SSR Black, Black could still consider that inferior to him considering his power increase ability.
Why wouldn't he make the relationship? He can feel ki.
He has to be healed to get a power increase in the manga.
Astral Dog
Member
Goku Black turning Vegeta speech around with 🌷 is super weird
Icyflamez96
Member
Arrogance. During the scene, it emphasizes the fact that he was focused on Vegeta's comment about "that form" being the one to beat him, and Black being baffled at him for it since it's weaker than SSB.
But even if you agree with that or not, an important point to know is that Black wasn't aware of Vegeta's strategy. If he had an idea of how strong Vegeta would be in SSB, he probably still assumed he would end up stalling him out (his power increase ability would help) knowing how his power drained in the form before. With Vegeta's strategy, he could still get out that power with significantly less drain, which Black didn't know about.
- Status