Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.

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Slaythe said:
My problem with saiyan transformations is that... they're literally all the same safe for cosmetic features.

They punch a bit harder, yay.

That's why Gohan's mystic form was a godsend. But apparently he's getting a new form. This isn't needed. Hoping it's just steamy mystic form. A more complete version i guess.

I am hoping whatever 17 is holding back isn't raw power, but a new ability or feat. If it's just him powering up to get as strong as the plot needs it, i give up. Because when you think about it, golden Frieza is exactly that. So if even 17 ends being a saiyan ersatz I'm gonna cry.
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Why was Mystic Gohan a godsend exactly? He literally punched harder and the cosmetic features were being saved.

The only exceptions so far in the entire franchise were the Oozaru transformations and the fusions, Gotenks specially had a lot of interesting funny moves. You could also say Merged Zamasu becoming a mist and killing the entire human race, but that's it.
 
I saw the training episode of Super. That was pretty entertaining. It looks like it's before they fight Beerus. I was confused at first because the other episodes that came on Sat nights were when he was fighting him.
 
Eh... didn't really care for this one.

The fight was pretty disappointing. Goku is just dicking around for most of it. Based on what I saw I'm not even convinced Gohan could handle Blue for a prolonged period of time.

More then anything... poor Tien. He should of at least gotten a a cool one-on-one with Piccolo.

Oh yeah. I thought the whole point of "Mystic" Gohan was that he didn't need to transform. It was just him. He didn't need transformations. Turning into a transformation kind of ruins that aspect eh...
 
They really screwed with Tien, dude jobbed for two episodes in a row. At least he can say it was Gohan this time! But damn, let him trade some punches with Piccolo at very least :(
 
Kelsdesu said:
What if Gohan used Kaioken along with his ultimate form?


Edit: I meant mystic.
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Ultimate form seems to have the same ki leaking issue that super saiyan had (judging by the way Tien, Piccolo, and Roshi could feel his ki, but can't feel SSB Goku/Vegeta's ki), so it would have the same problem as using kiaoken while super saiyan: he'd drain all of his ki almost instantly and die.
Unless he's in the otherworld tournament, then apparently he can do it because reasons.

I'm not Toriyama though, so someone might know more than I do.
 
Arrrammis said:
Ultimate form seems to have the same ki leaking issue that super saiyan had (judging by the way Tien, Piccolo, and Roshi could feel his ki, but can't feel SSB Goku/Vegeta's ki), so it would have the same problem as using kiaoken while super saiyan: he'd drain all of his ki almost instantly and die.
Unless he's in the otherworld tournament, then apparently he can do it because reasons.

I'm not Toriyama though, so someone might know more than I do.
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I thought they simply could not sense God Ki?
 
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I'm so sorry Tien
 
Varna said:
I thought they simply could not sense God Ki?
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That's true, but I still am kinda confused about the whole Goku/Vegeta using god ki. I keep confusing stopping ki leaking with using god ki, since they seem to be used interchangeably sometimes and appeared with the same transformation. Goku and Vegeta learned how to prevent their ki from leaking using a new transformation that also happened to use God ki.

For a while I thought that there was no real god ki, it was just that the gods were able to control their ki output more than mortals, and learned other ways to read power (which is why other mortals couldn't sense "god ki"). It made sense in the context of Super Saiyan Blue, but was kinda debunked when I re watched BoG where Goku first goes SSG and only Dende can sense his energy.
 
Before I go back and read this threat, I want to get my thoughts down. I made sure for this episode to watch it with subs before I look at any comments so I wouldn't be tainted and give me a fresh POV:

First, this episode is better than I thought. Gohan's power-up, while still kind of on the BS side, wasn't as bad as I thought. For the most part, it seems Gohan was even to a little stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Goku. Unlike with Topp and 17 (something I am sure Slaythe loves), Goku wasn't pushed to used his god form. Gohan had to demand that he 'use his full power' which got him nailed by Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan/Kaioken. It remains me of the Bergamo match. The only real indication that Gohan was on par with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was how he got some shots in on Goku before he used the Kaioken.

And we also confirmed that Gohan in Episode 75 wasn't equal to Super Saiyan Goku. Gohan in his Ultimate form should be way above where he was at back then and Goku still was able to hold his own with Super Saiyan 2. We also saw Piccolo wrecked Super Saiyan 2 Gohan, yet when Piccolo used his charged up energy blast, Goku withstood it in his base form. Meaning that Super Saiyan 2 Goku > Super Saiyan 2 Gohan even in that Piccolo training episode. Unless you're going to say Piccolo somehow used less energy in this battle then again Gohan, despite charging his attack for several seconds.

Where do I put Gohan over all? I will be nice and saw he's on par with 17. So, he's within the power tier of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, but doesn't surpass it. Although, given his performance overall, he seemed only to be above Super Saiyan 2 or maybe even 3 Goku and didn't forced him to used his god form, but I will count those two shots he gave to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku and will give him the benefit of being suppressed, even though Goku encouraged him to used more energy during their being struggled.

Second, Tien really got shafted. He didn't do anything in this "2-on-2 match", it felt more like 2-on-1 with Goku doing all the work. A real mis opportunity.

I feel bad for Gowasu since he doesn't trust his own judgment anymore after the whole thing with Zamasu. I can't help but think U10 is screw up the rear given who their team is. Maybe they have some surprising, but....U10 feels like team fodder at the moment.

Final thought, great episode for both Gohan and Goku fans. Gohan got his power-up and is now team captain and Goku gets to show that he' the top dog of U7. The only fans left in the cold is Tien since Super shows him as being somewhat incompetent and why Krillin has the title as the "strongest human".

Edit: I loved how Goku trick Gohan using the same tricked Buu used on him, shooting a barrage of energy blast and attacked while they're blind. Nice nod and
farewell to Buu
.
 
Pretty awesome episode. Loved the combination moves between gohan & piccolo. Also I don't think I've seen piccolo use that move since forever.
 
I n t e r e s t i n g

I mean overall a decent episode. I'm not convinced Goku needed Blue/KK but it doesn't make too much difference. It was over in a punch anyway. Nice that Gohan is at that level,
even if it is a bit obnoxious reading some Gohan fan's comments

Really curious about where things go from here though. Also I'm disappointed in Tien, even if it was expected.
 
I'm really happy for Gohan fans. I wish Tien had gotten a few hits in. I don't think that is unreasonable to ask with how power levels seem to be in DB (and I like how it is). Tien could have some decent fight scenes around the corner so I'll try to not be too discouraged by tonight's episode
 
I liked the episode, but I have to agree that it was let down by the visuals. I was happy to see Gohan get serious, but I think I liked the Krillin/18 episode better. That's still my favorite of all the pre-tournament episodes.

Also, I wish we could have seen Piccolo and Tien go at it for a bit.

Edit- The protein shake joke was great
 
Slaythe said:
My problem with the recent development.

It makes Goku and Vegeta look like complete fools, and it also renders nonsensical Beerus and Whis' interest in them.

Those assholes spent about 4 years training as hard as possible and Gohan, on his own, no magic trick, catches up in like 5 hours by meditating.

That's... just. Whatever.

That being said, I'm really happy to see Gohan "back", and especially as the leader. Just wish they had handled it a bit better.
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Not really since Gohan struggled against Super Saiyan 2 Goku and only went to full power on Goku's request. Even then, the Kaioken is what Goku has been developing to fight Beerus and he's using it far more easily.
 
This episode had everything I wanted and more. Gohan is by far my favorite character and always has been since the Saiyan arc. I've wanted his legit return to form for so long, especially after he jobbed so hard in the RoF arc.
 
Tien not getting to show his stuff like the other humans is clearly to make up for that big moment of his against Cell.

It was just so great, that the scales still need to be balanced.
 
Swarna said:
So the character you'd actually expect to get a BS boost in power ended up getting the mildest one. Gohan looked only a bit better than SSJ2 Goku there. They didn't even bother to show SSJ3 (perhaps due to budget) but the fight against SSB was too short to conclude anything.

From one perspective, Krillin is stronger than Gohan. He got more screen-time against SSB and needed much less against SSJ.

What's odd is that this fight had more hype to it but the fighter being displayed was portrayed to be much weaker than the ones in the more casual episodes (17). Also, base Gohan fighting evenly against base Goku in this episode, SSJ Gohan vs SSJ Goku in 75, but then somehow the SSJ2 multiplier holds up to Ultimate.
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Goku sandbags. This only confirmed what I suspected. Namely, Goku wasn't taking the sparring match with Gohan seriously and they were both messing around.

Swarna said:
Naw, you got me wrong. It's not BS, that's what's odd here. Goku, Frieza, Trunks, 17 all got god ki handouts like candy. That Gohan of all people didn't get it is pretty interesting. He really wasn't shown to be at SSB-level IMO, going by how other characters have traded blows against much stronger characters in past Super episodes.
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None of the above have god ki. They were just very strong.
 
I definitely enjoyed this episode. Gohans power up was actually sensible compared to the others in recent memory... The fight choreography was well done. They really put a lot of details into the expressions of the characters to reflect the fight.

I'm hoping that Gohan keeps this momentum throughout the tournament.
 
Good enough ep.

Choreo wasn't great. But it was good enough

Having the same voice fight each other was annoying and I hope it never happens again tbh lol. Or at least cut out all the DADADA.

What the ep did have going for it were certain animations and the moment overall.

Lastly, anyone else wishing for more variety in music? We hear the same 4 songs every ep it feels like.
 
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